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Duke of Marmalade 07-14-2018 01:15 AM

King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2020
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-secure-low/


The former King of Spain, Juan Carlos I, used his alleged lover Princess Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein to buy multiple overseas properties due to her tax residence in Monaco, according to claims made by the German aristocrat in a leaked audio recording.

muriel 07-14-2018 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 2132722)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-secure-low/


The former King of Spain, Juan Carlos I, used his alleged lover Princess Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein to buy multiple overseas properties due to her tax residence in Monaco, according to claims made by the German aristocrat in a leaked audio recording.

This could get very interesting!

Marengo 07-14-2018 02:43 AM

What an article!

Apparently she told it in 2015 to a Spanish police officer.

She also claimed that Juan Carlos I held bank accounts in Switzerland in the name of his cousin, Álvaro Orleans de Borbón (a brother of the 7th duke of Galliera).

Quote:

In the recordings revealed on Wednesday, the aristocrat said she was living a “nightmare” because the king had put various properties in Morocco and elsewhere into her name, which, following the end of their personal relationship, he then wanted transferred to his cousin.
“But if I do it, it is money laundering,” she says in the recording as transcribed by El Español. “They are putting me under tremendous pressure to return these things, but if I do it I am breaking the law and I could go to jail”.
They estimate his net worth at 2 billion Euros!

An Ard Ri 07-14-2018 07:42 AM

No wonder he has been lying low of late I was thinking he was ill!

wyevale 07-14-2018 08:35 AM

The Borbón's seem HELL bent on destroying their throne....

Somebody 07-14-2018 09:45 AM

Well, it's not that surprising since there were also some shady deals involved in the house that he bought or financed for Iñaki and Cristina. It goes to show that Iñaki's idea he could get away with things using his wife's name was supported by the evidence of his father-in-law getting away with tax evation. And the king apparently continued on that route even after Iñaki was caught.

An Ard Ri 07-14-2018 10:12 AM

Just as one unsavory scandal is laid to rest another one emerges.

Somebody 07-14-2018 10:32 AM

Apparently Corinna also talks about some shady dealings regarding the AVE a la Meca (high speed train to Mecca). If I understand it correctly the king wanted to (and did) receive ten thousands of millions as an intermediate, claimimg he made the whole project possible, so for his role as the one connecting the real intermediate witn the Saudi king he expected to receive half of the commision (under the table). Corinna tried to convince the king not to do this as it would be illegal and he could end up in prison. His response: "You are so German."

HereditaryPrincess 07-14-2018 02:38 PM

Oh dear, this doesn't seem like a good situation at all. Like father-in-law, like son-in-law!

Duke of Marmalade 07-14-2018 03:12 PM

I think from when JC steered Spain into democracy and started rebuilding the country economically, there were a lot of deals going on that included personal enrichment, something that is still common in authoritarian regimes or many democracies until today even though from a legal perspective it would be considered 'shady' or even criminal. Corruption has deep roots in Spain and has been a trivial offense for many years. It was normal procedure.


We'll see if all the money that JC has amassed for himself and his family can be considered 'clean' when he passes and his children inherit, at least Felipe will be under scrutiny. Having said that, most Spaniards are aware of JC's dealings and so will be Felipe, having learned what it takes to lead a country from his father first hand including the shady parts.

Winnie 07-14-2018 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 2133101)
I think from when JC steered Spain into democracy and started rebuilding the country economically, there were a lot of deals going on that included personal enrichment, something that is still common in authoritarian regimes or many democracies until today even though from a legal perspective it would be considered 'shady' or even criminal. Corruption has deep roots in Spain and has been a trivial offense for many years. It was normal procedure.


We'll see if all the money that JC has amassed for himself and his family can be considered 'clean' when he passes and his children inherit, at least Felipe will be under scrutiny. Having said that, most Spaniards are aware of JC's dealings and so will be Felipe, having learned what it takes to lead a country from his father first hand including the shady parts.


If what you are saying is correct, then finding out about the money and property really isn't that big a scandal in the eyes of most Spanish citizens or the fact that he did amass this fortune not a secret to his wife or children. Why the big headlines now as if people are shocked. I don't get it. It can't be about the mistress as he had tons of them in his life. What sparked it off now?

Mbruno 07-14-2018 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 2132743)
What an article!

Apparently she told it in 2015 to a Spanish police officer.

She also claimed that Juan Carlos I held bank accounts in Switzerland in the name of his cousin, Álvaro Orleans de Borbón (a brother of the 7th duke of Galliera).



They estimate his net worth at 2 billion Euros!




There is no way Juan Carlos could have a net worth of 2 billion euros. When figures like that are mentioned, the credibility of the article is already disputed.

Denville 07-14-2018 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2133118)
There is no way Juan Carlos could have a net worth of 2 billion euros. When figures like that are mentioned, the credibility of the article is already disputed.

Is this true/plausible, or is it an unconfirmed tale from an ex mistress?

Duke of Marmalade 07-15-2018 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnie (Post 2133110)
If what you are saying is correct, then finding out about the money and property really isn't that big a scandal in the eyes of most Spanish citizens or the fact that he did amass this fortune not a secret to his wife or children. Why the big headlines now as if people are shocked. I don't get it. It can't be about the mistress as he had tons of them in his life. What sparked it off now?


Well, these days corruption is not considered a trivial offence any longer, the last PM, Rajoy, had to leave office because of his involvement in party corruption. Same goes for Inaki, in different times he would possibly have avoided a jail sentence.

Even though it's common knowledge that JC will have amassed lots of wealth on the side of deals/dealings for Spain and back then it was normal procedure, it will reflect badly on the monarchy and Felipe, who has implemented transparency and moral standards at casa real, because he will possibly have to deal with/inherit issues that today are considered or stem from a criminal offence. Its one thing to alienate Inaki, a brother in law, but another to alienate his father and predecessor. And we all know that Felipe has a very soft spot for his mother, who would hate to see this topic making lots of headlines.


2 billion Euros is a lot of money, I dont think anyone will ever confirm this. But JC has had lots of dealings with the Saudis, UAE or Morocco, authoritarian regimes with wealth beyond imagination (at least the elites of the country).

Winnie 07-15-2018 11:13 AM

D of M, thank you for your comments to my question. I do understand the difference of morals and underhanded governments and CEO of yesteryear but actually didn't realize that it was common knowledge in Spain. We were always led to believe the noble strict Catholic country was extremely moral and should set the example approved of by the Roman Father in all ways. My grade school teachers actually drilled this into us on exams.

I sincerely hope that another Inaki scandal will not be placed upon the Spanish citizens. They have endured enough and the cost is absolutely crazy. Plus if, as you stated, all knew about these behind-the-back dealing including spouse and the three issues [new king being one] there will be no way for them under court questing that they could possibly say under oath that they knew nothing was going on illegally with JC. None of them are stupid or gullible. A tad spoiled and used to the extreme good life maybe, but not ignorant. Maybe just used to turning their head on the lack of morals used by prior heads of governments even their own parent.

As far as the amount of money......yes I believe. Was not that much when first taken but over the years and with good investments, very possible. JMO Thanks again

Terri Terri 07-15-2018 11:43 AM

Doesn't King Juan Carlos have immunity from prosecution now? Wasn't that one of the conditions that was agreed on as part of his abdication? So even though these deals may now be spoken of openly, it isn't as though he will go to prison. However, I do see how it may cause difficulties for the SRF.

An Ard Ri 07-16-2018 06:30 AM

The story is now making its way across the worldwide news media,it seems the Spanish RF only make worldwide headlines when its bad press!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-secure-low/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...oney-b27765l6b

Mbruno 07-16-2018 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 2133482)
Doesn't King Juan Carlos have immunity from prosecution now? Wasn't that one of the conditions that was agreed on as part of his abdication? So even though these deals may now be spoken of openly, it isn't as though he will go to prison. However, I do see how it may cause difficulties for the SRF.


I am not sure about his legal status now. When he was the reigning king, he had immunity from prosecution under the Spanish constitution. That BTW is also the case for all other reigning European monarchs as far as I understand.

capri 07-16-2018 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2133866)
The story is now making its way across the worldwide news media,it seems the Spanish RF only make worldwide headlines when its bad press!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-secure-low/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...oney-b27765l6b

I can't believe she says the truth. Maybe Juan Carlos gave her money and now she pretends that she diddn't know it, in order to avoid the consequences.

camelot23ca 07-16-2018 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 2133275)
Well, these days corruption is not considered a trivial offence any longer, the last PM, Rajoy, had to leave office because of his involvement in party corruption. Same goes for Inaki, in different times he would possibly have avoided a jail sentence.

Even though it's common knowledge that JC will have amassed lots of wealth on the side of deals/dealings for Spain and back then it was normal procedure, it will reflect badly on the monarchy and Felipe, who has implemented transparency and moral standards at casa real, because he will possibly have to deal with/inherit issues that today are considered or stem from a criminal offence. Its one thing to alienate Inaki, a brother in law, but another to alienate his father and predecessor. And we all know that Felipe has a very soft spot for his mother, who would hate to see this topic making lots of headlines.


2 billion Euros is a lot of money, I dont think anyone will ever confirm this. But JC has had lots of dealings with the Saudis, UAE or Morocco, authoritarian regimes with wealth beyond imagination (at least the elites of the country).

I don’t think corruption was ever considered trivial but it was/is commonplace. Iñaki’s problem was not that what he did was unheard of but that he did it in a clumsy way that made it easy for anyone who wanted to go looking to take him down. In terms of the money he was moving around he was small potatoes. It’s still incomprehensible to me why Juan Carlos didn’t follow the time honoured tradition of powerful fathers in law making sure there’s a rock solid financial brain watching over his son in law’s business. IF what Corinna is saying is true then maybe he truly felt he and his family were untouchable.

That said, while I don’t doubt Juan Carlos and his family have benefitted from deals that wouldn’t hold up under legal scrutiny, I don’t know how much credibility I’d give these particular stories. Corinna seems to have been quite happy to at least look the other way and keep quiet about JC’s dealings before he left her.

Felipe hasn’t instituted any transparency regarding his private financial dealings and if he ever did I think it would be eye opening for those who think of him as pure as the driven snow. At the very least he’s benefitted financially from his father’s wheeling and dealing. And he’ll benefit even more when his father dies. I predict if this issue doesn’t go away he’ll be “noble” and announce he’s putting the inheritance into the existing foundation - but, of course, a significant part of the inheritance won’t be traceable or declared, at least not if Juan Carlos and his friends have done their jobs well.


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