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-   -   Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f34/possible-dukedom-for-harry-and-meghan-43903.html)

O-H Anglophile 05-18-2018 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texankitcat (Post 2110262)
That doesnít make sense. Prince William will automatically assume his fatherís current titles (other than Prince of Wales) the moment the Queen passes and Prince Charles becomes King and assumes the titles that come with that position. Prince Charles current list of titles arenít assimilated into his role as the Monarch so/why would Williamís? Am I missing something?


The title William will automatically inherit is Duke of Cornwall--because it is inherited by the eldest son and heir of the monarch--the title goes with the position unlike the Duke of Cambridge title.


ETA: Gawin and Ish explained it better before I did.:flowers:

Stuttering_Coco 05-18-2018 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawin (Post 2110153)
Do you remember where you heard that?

I don't recall, maybe on like Entertainment Tonight....I don't know.

texankitcat 05-18-2018 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ish (Post 2110264)
The Monarch is incapable of being a peer, so when someone becomes Monarch their titles merge with the Crown and become available for use again. Further, all of Charlesí titles are ones (at this point in time) are ones reserved for the heir apparent, so once he is no longer heir apparent he will no longer be eligible to hold them.

In contrast, with Williamís titles, they are held by him specifically and will be held by him until such time as he either becomes King (when they merge with the Crown) or dies (when they are passed on to his heir or, if there is no heir, become extinct). He might gain higher titles (those of the heir apparent) and not use his current titles regularly, but he will still be Duke of Cambridge.

Okay, now I understand. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this with such clarity! :flowers:

alvinking 05-18-2018 11:03 PM

But the Monarch is nonetheless Duke of Lancaster :whistling::whistling::whistling:

One a side note, since the DoE is the husband of the Queen, and the wife takes the courtesy title of her husband, does she still have among her titles Duchess of Edinburgh?

Pranter 05-18-2018 11:05 PM

IIRC the Queen is the Duchess of Edinburgh.


LaRae

wbenson 05-18-2018 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinking (Post 2110272)
But the Monarch is nonetheless Duke of Lancaster :whistling::whistling::whistling:

Informally only. The Duchy of Lancaster (the estate, not the title) is held by the Crown, so she's colloquially known as Duke of Lancaster, but she isn't actually a duke.

alvinking 05-18-2018 11:20 PM

with all these dukedom names, these reminds me of the name of the streets in Backbay in Boston, MA, from the Boston Public Garden to Massachusetts Ave, all in alphabetical order

Arlington st, Bekerley st, Clarendon st, Dartmouth st, Exeter st, Fairfield st, Gloucester st, Hereford st, and they all cross Marlborough st :tongue::tongue::biggrin::biggrin:

Ish 05-18-2018 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinking (Post 2110272)
But the Monarch is nonetheless Duke of Lancaster :whistling::whistling::whistling:

One a side note, since the DoE is the husband of the Queen, and the wife takes the courtesy title of her husband, does she still have among her titles Duchess of Edinburgh?


Duke of Lancaster, while being one of the monarchís titles, is not a peerage in its own. Itís the exception to the rule.

Iluvbertie 05-19-2018 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson (Post 2110279)
Informally only. The Duchy of Lancaster (the estate, not the title) is held by the Crown, so she's colloquially known as Duke of Lancaster, but she isn't actually a duke.

Tell that to the Court Circular who regular refers to her when doing anything anywhere related to the Duchy of Lancaster as HM The Queen, Duke of Lancaster.

If the CC, which she herself approves, refers to her as Duke of Lancaster I would argue that she regards herself as Duke of Lancaster.

Duke of Leaside 05-19-2018 01:04 AM

I'll predict Harry (in about 3-4 hours) will be Duke of Sussex, Earl of Omagh and Baron Ullapool. Thus, upon marriage, Meghan will be Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Omagh and Lady Ullapool.

We'll soon see...

jacqui24 05-19-2018 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmsteepy (Post 2110164)
That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.

It all really depends, given that Andrew could easily live another 30-40 years, we might not even see it used for Louis if he marries before Andrew passes away. But yea, definitely out of question for Harry, so I don't think HMQ would take into account of Harry being created Duke of York once Andrew passes. Too much time and too many uncertainties.

Countessmeout 05-19-2018 01:38 AM

Harry wont be Duke of York in waiting. It morbid to say 'Oh Andrew we are waiting for you to die already so Harry can have your title.' Edinburgh is much different. Not only was Philip much older, but it was his wish. It was leaving the title to his own son. That is not the situation here obviously.

The question will be who is the next duke. Louis? Or George's second child? It could be either. And its very likely it will be George's 2nd.

Andrew is only 58. If he lives as long as his parents he could live another 30-35 years if not more. Louis is likely to marry when Andrew is alive. They may choose to make him an earl, if the DOY is 93 and close to death, but again they may choose to hold off on that.

Beatrice and Eugenie may drop York when they marry, but they will still be associated with the title. Just as Alexandra is associated with Kent still. It might be considered disrespectful to name Louis Duke of York after Andrew dies, when his daughter are alive. Like right after.

I have a feeling it may be held off until the 2nd child of George. Louis will likely be made Duke of Cambridge when he marries.

Quote:

I'll predict Harry (in about 3-4 hours) will be Duke of Sussex, Earl of Omagh and Baron Ullapool. Thus, upon marriage, Meghan will be Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Omagh and Lady Ullapool.

We'll soon see...
Possible, though I would switch the Scottish and N Irish titles around. More commonly the N Irish title is the barony (exception being Gloucester/Ulster).

Stefan 05-19-2018 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ish (Post 2109663)
There is no ďnormallyĒ - to look for precedent, you have to go back over a hundred years to the reigns of Queen Victoria and Edward VII. You canít really compare, as things were different then.


The other precedent would be the brothers of King Geoge III. they where not the sons af a Monach but where still given ducal Titles. They where hiowever not given the Titles on marriage but at some point by their brother.

jacqui24 05-19-2018 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Leaside (Post 2110330)
I'll predict Harry (in about 3-4 hours) will be Duke of Sussex, Earl of Omagh and Baron Ullapool. Thus, upon marriage, Meghan will be Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Omagh and Lady Ullapool.

We'll soon see...

Wait, the woman doesn't get to be baroness if her husband is made baron?:ohmy:

Curryong 05-19-2018 02:16 AM

I think when people refer to Baroness So and so in the British system then it's usually thought that she's a Baroness in her own right, rather than being the wife of a Baron, though of course she is.

Countessmeout 05-19-2018 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqui24 (Post 2110361)
Wait, the woman doesn't get to be baroness if her husband is made baron?:ohmy:

No, the proper address for the wife of a baron is Lady. Like Kate is Lady Carrickfergus, not Baroness. When a woman is addresses as baroness, she holds the peerage in her own right. At least with British barons.

Quote:

Normally one refers to or addresses Baron [X] as Lord [X] and his wife as Lady [X].[6][8][9] Women who hold baronies in their own right may be styled as Baroness [X],[9] or Lady [X].[10][11] In direct address, they can also be referred to as My Lord, Your Lordship, or Your Ladyship, but never as My Lady (except in the case of a female judge). The husband of a Baroness in her own right gains no title or style from his wife. Children of Barons and Baronesses in their own right, whether hereditary or for life, have the style The Honourable [Forename] [Surname]. After the death of the father or mother, the child may continue to use the style The Honourable.
Barons are styled The Right Honourable The Lord [Barony].[6] Barons' wives are styled The Right Honourable The Lady [Barony]. Baronesses in their own right, whether hereditary or for life, are either styled The Right Honourable The Baroness [Barony] or The Right Honourable The Lady [Barony], mainly based on personal preference (e.g., Margaret, Baroness Thatcher and Brenda, Lady Hale, both created baronesses in their own right for life). Note the order of the names: 'Lady Brenda Hale' would denote that she were the daughter of an earl, marquess or duke and, in the case of men, 'Lord Digby Jones' would denote that he were the younger son of a marquess or duke, and should be properly styled "The Lord Jones of Birmingham" (or, less formally: "Digby, Lord Jones"). The Right Honourable is frequently abbreviated to The Rt Hon. or Rt Hon. When referred to by the Sovereign in public instruments, The Right Honourable is changed to Our right trusty and well-beloved, with Counsellor attached if they are a Privy Counsellor.
Courtesy barons are styled Lord [Barony], and their wives Lady [Barony]: the article "The" is always absent; if the courtesy baron is not a Privy Counsellor, the style The Right Honourable will also be absent.

wbenson 05-19-2018 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqui24 (Post 2110361)
Wait, the woman doesn't get to be baroness if her husband is made baron?:ohmy:

A baron's wife is a baroness, but in modern times "baroness X" is usually used for baronesses in their own right (almost all women who hold peerages are baronesses, so it's not a big issue at higher grades). It's not a hard and fast rule.

Zonk 05-19-2018 05:06 AM

As the titled has been announced, a new thread has been opened, which you will find here https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2110523


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