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-   -   State Visit from the King and Queen of Spain: July 12-14, 2017 (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/state-visit-from-the-king-and-queen-of-spain-july-12-14-2017-a-39744.html)

Dman 04-18-2017 02:45 PM

I'm glad the State Visit hasn't been cancelled.

Jacknch 04-18-2017 02:56 PM

Well I'm delighted with this news! It will be a very nice distraction (at least for those that follow royalty) from the election, but more importantly it underlines the importance of things carrying on in a normal manner.

cepe 04-18-2017 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1977418)
Maybe the King of Spain and Queen Letizia can stop by at a polling station on June 8 to see British democracy in action ? And, of course, government ministers and the PM will take time off from their campaign schedules two days before the election to meet and have dinner with the Spanish royal couple and other members of the Spanish delegation! Again, I find it hard to believe.

In any case, Don Felipe will now most certainly not address the UK parliament, as parliament will be dissolved and MPs will be out campaigning in their constituencies (British English for parliamentary districts).

Agree with this 100%. Whitehall will be empty. Pointless visit.

Spanish Government might also think its pointless as well.

ROYAL NORWAY 04-18-2017 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cepe (Post 1977430)
Agree with this 100%. Whitehall will be empty. Pointless visit.

Spanish Government might also think its pointless as well.

Agree! And the media coverage will be even lesser than usual.

vkrish 04-18-2017 03:17 PM

I think this visit, already ceremonial, will become totally pointless without a full fledged administration. What commitments/negotiations can happen between the delegations?What's the point of the King and Queen shaking hands and reciting speeches about "shared history"..And in run up for elections, it won't even receive modest coverage, except for some fashion enthusiasts drooling over Kate's and letizias gowns and tiaras.. and our dearest Dman once again lamenting what an injustice it is that Kate was still not given an ivory-free RFO.. JMO..

PetticoatLane 04-18-2017 03:24 PM

The perfect excuse to scrap this unnecessary and frankly offensive state visit.

The royals always do everything they can to stay out of the public eye in the lead up to a general election, it's one of the unwritten rules of British politics.

If the Queen or one of the other British royals were to wear red/blue/yellow/green/purple she would be accused of favouring in some way the political party associated with that colour. A speech welcoming the head of state of a country that's a devoted member of the EU cult would be seen as an endorsement of anti-Brexit policy. Dressing up in tiaras and diamonds, hosting a massively opulent banquet and riding around in golden carriages would be a PR disaster as the political parties fight over austerity and spending cuts.

There's no reward in this for the British RF, only massive risk. It's a lose-lose situation. It should be cancelled and quietly forgotten about.

tommy100 04-18-2017 03:27 PM

I'm surprised to hear the visit is still going ahead as we have heard time and time again that the RF alter schedules to try and stay out the way during elections in case anything they do is seen as supporting one side or another in anyway. Wasn't Camilla's first solo visit after their marriage postponed because it was to a hospital and it could have bought up questions about healthcare and the NHS?

That being said I'm personally glad its not being rescheduled as I'm not convinced that it would have been rescheduled anytime soon.

In regards to the timing it was said the PM decided over her Easter break to call another general election and, as others have pointed out, that really limits the dates it can fall on without dragging it out which is probably undesirable given whoever wins needs time to focus on Brexit negotiations.

As for a State Visit going ahead during a General Election - I guess its easier as both Heads of State are non-political sovereigns. There will still be plenty of civil servants in the government departments around to hold discussions on important matters who I am sure will be able to quite clearly and carefully brief whatever administration is voted in. There will still be much pageantry and ceremonial on display (which IMO might be a nice distraction). Whether we will see the Prime Minister, Leader of the Opposition etc all trekking back to BP or Windsor for a State Banquet...let's wait and see.

kathia_sophia 04-18-2017 04:01 PM

I'm not a political person myself, but as a royal watcher and fan of royal fashion, I'm glad that the State Visit wasn't postponed.
I don't see why both cannot be at the same time, the election is a political move, and the State visit is the highest expression of friendly relations between two sovereign states. They're different and their pursposes are different as well.

Osipi 04-18-2017 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkrish (Post 1977435)
I think this visit, already ceremonial, will become totally pointless without a full fledged administration. What commitments/negotiations can happen between the delegations?What's the point of the King and Queen shaking hands and reciting speeches about "shared history"..And in run up for elections, it won't even receive modest coverage, except for some fashion enthusiasts drooling over Kate's and letizias gowns and tiaras.. and our dearest Dman once again lamenting what an injustice it is that Kate was still not given an ivory-free RFO.. JMO..

Hey Dman! Ain't it grand that people around here know (and respect) someone that sticks to his convictions? :biggrin:

To the contrary, this visit between Spain and the UK reminds us all that things are not always political or have a political aim behind it. Its what makes a monarch pertinent in this day and age. Relationships between countries are not solely on a political basis. Here in the US, no matter what a politcian or the president does, goes or tweets about, there's always some political innuendo assigned to it.

Dman 04-18-2017 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1977447)
Hey Dman! Ain't it grand that people around here know (and respect) someone that sticks to his convictions? :biggrin:

To the contrary, this visit between Spain and the UK reminds us all that things are not always political or have a political aim behind it. Its what makes a monarch pertinent in this day and age. Relationships between countries are not solely on a political basis. Here in the US, no matter what a politcian or the president does, goes or tweets about, there's always some political innuendo assigned to it.

:lol: I know right! I'll continue sticking to my convictions.

I'm just hoping the visit won't be disturbed. June is two months away, so a cancellation is still possible.

I do envy a country that can just call an election like this though. I wish we could do the same here in America.

lula 04-18-2017 04:46 PM

The Spanish Royal House takes visits very seriously, they are very institutional and make few concessions to activities for the photo. In their visits to Mexico, France or Portugal, they visited all the important institutions of the country and the King spoke in the national assembly. A poor visit, without meetings with the main institutions of the country or speech in the parliament ... is the antithesis to the way in which the Spanish Royal House organizes visits.

Perhaps May wants the Spanish government to cancel the visit by offering a poor agenda... so she can say that the responsibility is not of her government. :whistling:

Mbruno 04-18-2017 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 1977456)
The Spanish Royal House takes visits very seriously, they are very institutional and make few concessions to activities for the photo. In their visits to Mexico, France or Portugal, they visited all the important institutions of the country and the King spoke in the national assembly. A poor visit, without meetings with the main institutions of the country or speech in the parliament ... is the antithesis to the way in which the Spanish Royal House organizes visits.

Perhaps May wants the Spanish government to cancel the visit by offering a poor agenda... so she can say that the responsibility is not of her government. :whistling:


As I said, there will not be an opportunity for the King to speak before the UK Parliament as the parliament will not be in session and all MPs will be out campaigning. There will be little opportunity also to meet with government ministers (who will be also on the campaign trail) and the visit will probably attract fewer crowds and get less coverage (the UK press will be covering the campaign instead).

Having said that , I don't think the Spaniards will call for a postponement or cancellation unless the Brits suggest it first, which they apparently will not do.

Al_bina 04-18-2017 05:47 PM

The early elections in UK are a surprising development. Mrs May stated on 30th of June, 2016 that next elections would take place in 2020. She denied a possibility of early elections multiple times.

I thought that the procedure of the EU exit was specified, and the divorce would be civilised and amicable. However, one may observe an opposite picture. It is odd to see the enlightened Europeans ripping into each other.

On a different note ... It seems to me that Spanish state visits are plagued with complications.

Duc_et_Pair 04-18-2017 06:59 PM

It the Spanish State Visit goes on it simply exposes the monarchy as a total meaningless puppet theatre. (It is, but no need to stress it). Despite her numerous pledges that there would not be a a snap election, the outgoing PM simply sets all and everyone for a fait accompli. The Queen is confronted with an outgoing Government and all MP's campaigning in their constituencies. The King of Spain will be welcomed by a Whitehall in campaign mode with extra tensions because of Brexit (including the dispute about Gibraltar and the rights of masses of Britons residing in Spain, including the strong nationalistic sentiments in Scotland and Ireland who have a double agenda). When the State Visit "simply" goes on, it is a sign how au sérieux this is taken: zero comma zero.

Rudolph 04-18-2017 07:17 PM

Nothing is going to change with the election. Theresa May will still be Prime Minster, just with a much larger majority.

It's probably why the visit will continue as scheduled.

cepe 04-18-2017 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 1977490)
Nothing is going to change with the election. Theresa May will still be Prime Minster, just with a much larger majority.

It's probably why the visit will continue as scheduled.

That may be what happens but it is not the view that any PM would want to portray. That is arrogant and the public wouldn't like it.

No politician worth their salt would do that.

Mirabel 04-18-2017 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 1977490)
Nothing is going to change with the election. Theresa May will still be Prime Minster, just with a much larger majority.

It's probably why the visit will continue as scheduled.


I don't think I'd care to rely on that, if I were May.

(After all, we all know just how reliable polls have proven to be lately).

camelot23ca 04-18-2017 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1977484)
It the Spanish State Visit goes on it simply exposes the monarchy as a total meaningless puppet theatre. (It is, but no need to stress it). Despite her numerous pledges that there would not be a a snap election, the outgoing PM simply sets all and everyone for a fait accompli. The Queen is confronted with an outgoing Government and all MP's campaigning in their constituencies. The King of Spain will be welcomed by a Whitehall in campaign mode with extra tensions because of Brexit (including the dispute about Gibraltar and the rights of masses of Britons residing in Spain, including the strong nationalistic sentiments in Scotland and Ireland who have a double agenda). When the State Visit "simply" goes on, it is a sign how au sérieux this is taken: zero comma zero.

On a certain level, state visits involving the majority of kings or queens really are frivolous "puppet theatre." Felipe wouldn't say or do anything abroad that was at odds with the instructions that had come down to him from the Spanish government of the day and 99% of the substantive work will have been done beforehand by the British and Spanish government ministers and their staffs.

Postponing too many times runs the risk of exposing the visit as frivolous, at least to the small minority of people who are paying attention at all. If something can be postponed several times over many months with no consequences whatsoever then what purpose does it serve?

IMO, the choice is between going ahead with what, on a political level, will be an imperfect visit full of underlying tensions or cancelling it full stop with the tacit acknowledgment that it could be years before another one is feasible.

Duke of Marmalade 04-19-2017 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1977484)
When the State Visit "simply" goes on, it is a sign how au sérieux this is taken: zero comma zero.

I agree, if it goes ahead, what I still cannot believe, it will be awkward from both sides and clearly a 'second class visit', with the usually important agenda items missing, the King rushed through a sceleton agenda mainly consisting of the 'pomp and fluff' the Spaniards detest so much, and people having different things on their minds.

I still cannot believe that the visit will go ahead not only becauce it will look ridiculous one day before election day but also because I do not see any political impartialness in it with QEII showing herself as rubbing shoulders with a King who stands for Europe and a PM who stands for re-election.

And I find it hard to believe that the Spaniards will agree to be pulled by a nose ring through the arena by the Brits.

Dman 04-19-2017 02:57 AM

It was stupid to call an election around the same time of a big State Visit. I'm sure they could've scheduled the election at lest a week after. That's like scheduling surgery around the same day you have to go to work.


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