The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   Royal Style File (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f97/)
-   -   Dressing Standards and Protocols of Royal Houses (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f97/dressing-standards-and-protocols-of-royal-houses-38364.html)

Duc_et_Pair 03-24-2015 02:12 PM

Dressing Standards and Protocols of Royal Houses
 
We have seen the State Visit from the King and Queen of the Netherlands to Denmark, last week. We have seen how Queen Máxima, Queen Margrethe, Crown Princess Mary, Princess Marie, Princess Benedikte and Princess Elisabeth dressed. All with flair and elegance, all with hats and gloves.

I know that the Spanish Court does no longer uphold an etiquette which requires ladies wearing hats and gloves, but the Queen was visiting Paris, the world-famously elegant capital of my country, Spain's most important neighbour ánd a glorious visit by a Bourbon King to a city with so much Bourbon history...

The tragic crash of the GermanWings Airbus of course changed everything. But when the royal couple left from the Aeropuerto de Madrid-Barajas and arrived at the Aéroport de Paris-Orly, the Queen was already wearing her "State Visit Outfit".

In comparison with how all the ladies looked in Copenhagen last week, I was underwhelmed by Queen Letizia's appearance. I am sorry to say. No offense intended.

King Felipe and Queen Letizia leaving for a State Visit to the République française (click on the picture to enlarge)

King Felipe and Queen Letizia during the official welcome ceremony at the L'Hôtel des Invalides in Paris (click on the picture to enlarge)

:flowers:

Nico 03-24-2015 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1761789)
So Amen!

And to all posters who probably think, "Ah... come on... just hats and gloves, pffff": think about State Visits with Elizabeth II, Silvia, Máxima, Camilla, etc. just going 'business as usual', reviewing military ceremonial or riding in a gala carriage, all bareheaded, just like everyone else.

I think Queen Letizia underestimates the importance and force of the so-called theatre of state and how important a dignified decorum is for a monarchy.

You seem to forget that Queen Sofia herself didn't wear gloves and hats during State visits at home or abroad, and i don't think that she underestimated anything ... That the style of the Royal Court in Spain and i can't see Letizia changing the rules established by her distinguished mother in law.

As for the State visits in France, they have been particularly low key for years, since 2010 or so, during the Sarkozy administration. The notable exception was of course the State Visit of QEII last june.

Duc_et_Pair 03-24-2015 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 1761818)
You seem to forget that Queen Sofia herself didn't wear gloves and hats during State visits at home or abroad [....]

Oh yes, she did.

Oh yes....

State Visit to the Netherlands

State Visit to Norway

State Visit to Sweden

State Visit to the United Kingdom

State Visit to France

State Visit to Belgium

Etc.

:flowers:

lula 03-24-2015 07:21 PM

Queen Sofía used hat occasionally in the early years, and after when the protocol of the host country requires it. But for 30 years is something she doesn´t usually wear, something only used exceptionally by the protocol obligation. Also she did not use tiara on state visits to republics.

The dress code and protocol in the Spanish Royal Family are simpler ... and they will not change.

Rania of Jordan or Lalla Salma don´t wear hat and I do not read some people here constantly complaining about it.

Al_bina 03-24-2015 07:42 PM

:previous:
Queen Rania and Lalla Salma are not European. So they have a bit of freedom interpreting the European protocol.
Unlike Infanta Elena, Queen Letizia usually fails to pull off a hat or headpiece.

Nico 03-24-2015 08:08 PM

If needed, she can pull off some millinery ;

Queen Letizia of Spain Pictures - Inauguration of King Willem-Alexander - Zimbio

Queen Letizia of Spain Hats - StyleBistro

Queen Letizia of Spain Decorative Hat - Queen Letizia of Spain Hats - StyleBistro

AnaC 03-24-2015 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 1761877)
:previous:
Queen Rania and Lalla Salma are not European. So they have a bit of freedom interpreting the European protocol.
Unlike Infanta Elena, Queen Letizia usually fails to pull off a hat or headpiece.

And where on earth does it say in European protocol that women should wear hats and gloves when the men are in suits? Nowhere, as Queen Sofía always showed us when she went on state visits in the last 30 years. Nico has posted some photos of Queen Sofía on a state visit to France in 2006, without hat or gloves. All of us who follow Queen Letizia and the Spanish Royal Family regularly know that the Spanish royal ladies don't wear hats unless the dress code calls for it (morning suit/uniform) and that only outside Spain. To expect that Queen Letizia will step out in a hat is unrealistic, and to start harping on it on the forums and compare her with other royals a sure way to get everyone frustrated and bored of having the same discussion for the nth time.

Duc_et_Pair 03-25-2015 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaC (Post 1761890)
And where on earth does it say in European protocol that women should wear hats and gloves when the men are in suits? [...]

The dresscode is mentioned on the invitation or in the protocollary agenda. Hats, gloves and jewels are always optional but hey... we are not speaking about the wife of the mayor of Oviedo, we are talking about Her Majesty The Queen of Spain.

We see the Queen of a glorious kingdom visiting another glorious, proud country, a former Bourbon-kingdom even, dressed just like a lady working at Caja Madrid (a bank). Shouldn't a Queen make an impression of Oh... wow... what a grande dame? instead of looking like the secretary of that bearded gentleman next to her?

Now this is explained as "Queen Sofía never did and so Queen Letizia never does". That might be logical when someone has no example to follow and does not come from a naturally "hat wearing culture". But Mary of Denmark, Máxima of the Netherlands, Catherine of Cambridge, Camilla of Cornwall, all turned out ladies who show who they are, using all trappings when needed and wearing headgear avec verve.

And... when Doña Letizia wears a hat, wow... she looks so good, so well-dressed, so every inch royal. Such a simple accessoire can really uplift a whole appearance.

:flowers:

This is so wonderful, what a beautiful appearance.

Imagine the very same dress but now without hat, it would immediately bring the whole "image" down

From top down every inch a royal lady

:whistling:

So I hope Doña Letizia will discover the pleasure of wearing hats and/or gloves and the great effect it often will have on her already easy to overlook (because she is petite and frail) appearance.

:flowers:

lula 03-25-2015 05:23 AM

Each country and Royal House has its customs and traditions and the Spanish Royal House will not recover dress codes that for spanish people would be outdated and a little ridiculous for 2015.

The Spanish monarchy is a reinstated monarchy, and that has given many of these changes in protocol. Queen Sofía, born Princess of Greece and Denmark, was the first to understand that she must adapt and resigned to court, ladies in waiting, and the excesses of dress codes.

The structure of the Royal House is more like a ministry that like a European court. Trips abroad are strongly institutional and political, not tourist trips like other royals.

I think some in these forums should respect that and stop creating a discussion whenever there is an event and the Queen of Spain not wearing a hat...

LadyFinn 03-25-2015 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 1761930)
Each country and Royal House has its customs and traditions and the Spanish Royal House will not recover dress codes that for spanish people would be outdated and a little ridiculous for 2015.

The Spanish monarchy is a reinstated monarchy, and that has given many of these changes in protocol. Queen Sofía, born Princess of Greece and Denmark, was the first to understand that she must adapt and resigned to court, ladies in waiting, and the excesses of dress codes.

The structure of the Royal House is more like a ministry that like a European court. Trips abroad are strongly institutional and political, not tourist trips like other royals.

I think some in these forums should respect that and stop creating a discussion whenever there is an event and the Queen of Spain not wearing a hat...

I totally agree. And how queen Sofia dressed during the state visits, is good enough also for queen Letizia. Both are very stylish and dignified ladies.

Duc_et_Pair 03-25-2015 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 1761930)
Each country and Royal House has its customs and traditions and the Spanish Royal House will not recover dress codes that for spanish people would be outdated and a little ridiculous for 2015.

It is not about the Spanish people. No one requires them to wear hats. It is about Her Majesty The Queen of Spain herself. Why is it not ridiculous to wear white in front of the Pope? Why is it not ridiculous to wear black when a Bandera needs to be kissed? Why is it not ridiculous to wear a mantilla with peineta? But.... why is it suddenly ridiculous indeed when we see a Queen or a Princess dresses like a royal instead like a bank clerk?

:ermm:

It has nothing to do with "upstaging" the common people or something. Last Saturday, just right back from a State Visit to Denmark and an Official Visit to Germany, we saw the Queen of the Netherlands in jeans, holding a paint-roller (see picture)... So it is not that someone has to walk in hats or haute couture all day long...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFinn (Post 1761931)
[...] And how queen Sofia dressed during the state visits, is good enough also for queen Letizia. [....]

You have seen post 358 with the State Visits of Queen Sofía to France, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Norway, Belgium, Sweden, etc.? What was Queen Sofía wearing on her head?

:whistling:

Right.... Look at this... to prevent saying "Oh... that was looooong ago"...

:cool:

With this the myth "Queen Sofia never wore hats during State Visits" is proven untrue. So Doña Letizia can go straight to the sombrerera and order some nice tocados or pamelas.

:lol:

AnaC 03-25-2015 10:16 AM

Really Duc, there's a saying in Spanish that goes something like "the blindest are those who refuse to see". As it's already been explained many, many times, Queen Sofía only wore hats in the last decades of her husband reign when the dress code required it, for example the State Visit to Norway when both Kings were in their uniforms. In every other state visit, she didn't wear hats. For example the 2006 state visit to France, or her last outgoing state visit to Switzerland in 2011, or her last state visit to Japan or Luxembourg

It's the Spanish way of doing things, and no matter how many times you complain about it and compare it to other Royal Houses ways (despite being asked by two moderators and many posters not to do it), Queen Letizia won't change her ways.

Winnie 03-25-2015 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 1761943)
Can we please cease with the comparisons between this royal and that royal as its becoming very tedious and repetitive.

I agree. This site should only be about what Queen Letizia is wearing and whether or not you like or not. If someone wants to see what another is wearing, go to their site. I personally think it is stupid to insist that anyone wear a certain item of clothing anytime if they don't really want to. I also do not like hats [except on Queen Elizabeth II] as I think most are goofy looking and comical. Men no longer wear hats continually like they did before JFK became president as he hated them. Then became a fad to no longer wear daily. [observe old photos even at sports events when all men whether rich or poor wore proper hats] So, I am rather glad that Letizia doesn't wear the damn things but still think it is her choice and rather stupid for people to make such a stink about such a judgmental topic. IMHO

Al_bina 03-25-2015 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaC (Post 1761984)
Really Duc, there's a saying in Spanish that goes something like "the blindest are those who refuse to see". As it's already been explained many, many times, Queen Sofía only wore hats in the last decades of her husband reign when the dress code required it, for example the State Visit to Norway when both Kings were in their uniforms. In every other state visit, she didn't wear hats.... [snipped], or her last state visit to Japan ... [snipped]

It's the Spanish way of doing things, and no matter how many times you complain about it and compare it to other Royal Houses ways (despite being asked by two moderators and many posters not to do it), Queen Letizia won't change her ways.

The Japanese Imperial ladies were/are always dressed in accordance with the protocol. It is the important thing. It is a rather European habit to stand out without a good reason to do so.

Queen Letizia is free to dress any way she wants. She tends to look budget most of the time.

MARG 03-25-2015 11:12 PM

:previous: Ouch! I would admit that Queen Letizia's wardrobe for the State Visit to France was definitely lacking both style and elegance which, when you consider the French and Fashion, is pretty noticeable.

I guess it only bothers me on the level that Letizia has plenty in her wardrobe to be perfectly presented, with or without a hat. She has done it many, many times, but for the State Visit to France she chose not to exert herself.

Whenever there is a reason to be standing on a reviewing dais, just like the soldiers wearing their Best Dress, protocol or just plain good manners behove the visitor invited to review the Parade or Guard to reciprocate.

Duke of Marmalade 03-26-2015 02:15 AM

IMO Letizia's designer Varela has no clue and no sense for the occasion of big events such as this one. His outfits look like business outfits, are of mediocre quality, the clothes are not well matched.

Winnie 03-26-2015 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 1762188)
IMO Letizia's designer Varela has no clue and no sense for the occasion of big events such as this one. His outfits look like business outfits, are of mediocre quality, the clothes are not well matched.

I agree, Varela is really not a designer for official engagements of any kind. They are certainly proper for business women not continually photographed.

lula 03-26-2015 08:08 AM

Queen Letizia wore a tweed dress and tuxedo blazer, with her hair in a bun and Bulgari earrings with diamonds and blue topaz... everyone can have their personal tastes in clothing, but her dress was totally correct and appropriate.

Here is Queen Sofía in 24 State Visits in the last 10 years, including monarchies and republics. She always wears suits, and occasionally a coat, but her style is simple.

The only time she wears a classic dress code with hat is on her visit to Norway, by requirement of the protocol because the kings dress gala uniform.

State Visit to Switzerland - 2011

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...512_Suiza6.jpg

State Visit to Australia - 2009

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...lia_saludo.jpg

State Visit to New Zealand - 2009

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...arlamento2.jpg

States Visits to Republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - 2009

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...gulisteuna.jpg
https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas..._llegada_2.jpg
https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...esidencial.jpg

State Visit to Japon - 2008

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...e_japon_02.jpg
https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...e_japon_05.jpg

State Visit to Peru - 2008

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...entro_alan.jpg

State Visit to Egypt - 2008

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...o_egipto_5.jpg

State Visit to China - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...ivadanamoc.jpg

State Visit to Hungary - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...cio_Sandor.jpg

State Visit to the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...ibimiento2.jpg

State Visit to Guatemala - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...uatemala02.jpg

State Visit to El Salvador - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...salvador02.jpg

State Visit to Argelia - 2007

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...a/Argelia4.jpg

State Visit to Noruega - 2006

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...9605673117.jpg

State Visit to Jordan - 2006

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...5947858478.jpg

State Visit to France - 2006

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...3479185839.jpg

State Visit to Thailand - 2006

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...0540638412.jpg

State Visit to Vietnam - 2006

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...0433140290.jpg

State Visit to Morocco - 2005

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...6234676406.jpg

State Visit to Chile - 2004

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...9855049078.jpg

State Visit to Bahrein - 2003

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...8186078892.jpg

State Visit to Romania - 2003

https://www.casareal.es/sitios/Listas...1727771284.jpg

Al_bina 03-26-2015 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 1762188)
IMO Letizia's designer Varela has no clue and no sense for the occasion of big events such as this one. His outfits look like business outfits, are of mediocre quality, the clothes are not well matched.

You have valid points. However, Mr Varela has to comply with Queen Letizia's wishes and tastes. She has her own standard for the appropriate.

Marengo 03-26-2015 08:45 AM

If it was up to me both Q. Letizia as her mother-in-law would still dress like Queen Ena. But times change, as do fashion styles. People seldom wear hats these days, they have disappeared almost completely. So although I prefer to see a royal lady with a hat & with twelve long ropes of pearls, I do understand that some may have other ideas.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises