Prince Andrew, Duke of York Current Events 7: February 2015
 

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Royal Central @RoyalCentral · 20m 20 minutes ago
The Duke of York will attend the World Innovation Summit in Qatar next week.

Qatar gets two British royals in five days

:previous: Yes, interesting. I wonder whether the plans were make without each prince's office being aware of the visit of the other one? Given the way communication is between the different offices, I'd expect not.;)

Queen makes Prince Andrew a vice-admiral:
The Duke of York has been promoted to the rank of vice-admiral, according to the latest Royal Navy appointments published in the London Gazette. The notice stated: “Her Majesty The Queen has graciously agreed that: Rear Admiral His Royal Highness The Duke of York KG GCVO ADC be promoted Vice Admiral with effect from 19 February 2015.”
Queen makes Prince Andrew a vice-admiral | The Times

Ok I know I will be told that this fair etc. but really vice admiral for what ? Is he still in the Navy ? It's this type of thing that makes the average person angry ..as always IMO


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Its for his birthday. Andrew turns 55 on the 19th

Oh.My.Goodness! Is this for real?

People have been predicting we would see some sort of "reward" dished out by his mummy to show her support for her favourite little boy after the latest Epstein-related scandal, and they haven't been disappointed. If this is truly a coincidence, I find it hugely amusing. First he's circulating cute family snaps on the social media, and now this. The timing is priceless! :rolleyes:

ALL members of the Royal family hold these sort of honorary ranks - few examples

Princess Royal:
Admiral and Chief Commandant for Women in the Royal Navy
Honorary Air Commodore of RAF Lyneham
(never served in any of the military, by the way)

Countess of Wessex
Royal Colonel of the 5th Battalion The Rifles

Earl of Wessex
2003: Royal Honorary Colonel of the Royal Wessex Yeomanry
2006: Commodore-in-Chief of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary
2007: Royal Colonel of 2nd Battalion, The Rifles
2008: Honorary Air Commodore of Royal Air Force Waddington
2011: Royal Honorary Colonel of the London Regimen

And if you are angry - then direct it at HMQ - she hands these out.

Oh ha ha. What would you like for your birthday ? Oh a vice admiral would be nice .
It might be what has happen for a few hundred years but I can't stand to see royals standing with a row of medals unless they are active in the forces now


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Andrew is still a serving officer but not on active duty anymore. That is the same for Charles and Philip - they never left the 'lists' but simply stopped being 'active' and thus available to be sent on military activities. William is also no longer active but is still a serving officer - while Harry is still active.


The Queen has often given family members awards like this for birthdays etc. What do you give someone who basically has everything? You can give them a promotion. Remember she made Philip 'Lord High Admiral' for his 90th birthday.

A promotion for doing nothing if Charles does makes changes when he becomes king I hope this is one of them.
In my mind it's an insult to the ones that are risking their life's and getting life time disabilities IMO


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I agree. This might have been seen as just fine in the past but I think that today most people don't think the Royals should get promotions for doing nothing, years after ceasing active service. Do other retired officers get promotions? I don't think so. I hope Charles puts an end to it.

The honorary appointments are a different thing; they are more like a patronage and they serve a purpose.

Charles won't be putting an end to it as he knows that his next promotion, in all likelihood will be to Commander-in-Chief.


He will also likely have to promote Harry past about Colonel or Major as I can't see Harry making General on his own merits and of course Charles will also need to promote William from his current rank of Colonel (he left the army at Lt or Capt but is now Colonel - as he was at the time of his wedding of course).

In respect of Charles, am prepared to concede that the UK monarch should be Commander-in-Chief since it sort of goes along with being Head of State. But otherwise I think this system stinks. It shouldn't surprise me though, because historically commissions could be bought; this is just an extension of that system.

If Harry can't manage to scratch up the points to be made a General on his own merits, why should he be made one? Why is William a Colonel when he left the army at a much lower rank? He did nothing to earn it. These are rhetorical questions; I'm not really seeking answers.

I shouldn't allow myself to get so worked up about this, but why should these people get this special treatment and these promotions and hifalutin titles when they have done nothing to deserve them other than be born to the right parents.

The beauty of having an hereditary system is that people get titles etc for simply being born of the right parents while the rest of us have to earn this titles.


A sound reason for a republic where merit is the only way to earn a title/rank etc. but in a monarchy the monarch can issue any titles/ranks etc or people can inherit them regardless of their qualifications to actually do the associated work.

Am I missing a point here? These are Honorary ranks and speaking as someone with links to the military, they like having royal honorary Colonel/Admiral/Air Commodores etc.

As for medals (of topic but in response to a comment) my husband has some including 3 he calls "routi-gongs" - stuff you just get for being there long enough or for a special event, ie jubilee. That's what the royals get. They dont get active service medals unless they have been in it - and that only applies to Philip, Andrew and Harry.

EDIT: Last comment may also apply to Duke of Kent

The timing is unfortunate, to say the least.
It does seem that, whenever Andrew makes a misstep, the Queen comes up with some mark of favor.
I understand it, he is her son, but the timing is not good. Andrew should lie low until the Epstein scandal abates.

This sort of thing angers the public and looks bad for the RF.

I see a big difference between the Honorary ranks and the promotions the Queen's sons, etc., get just because of who they are. I thought I'd made that clear in an earlier post but perhaps I edited it out by mistake.

I fully understand why servicemen would like having the Royal Honorary Colonels, etc. and I think it's a good idea. But the lines are blurred when one of the sons is in the military to start with. The objectional element enters when they retire with their earned rank but are later given higher ranks they haven't earned. The fact these are Honorary ranks is conveniently overlooked in those circumstances and they strut about wearing all their extra braid as though they are perfectly entitled to it, and I wouldn't be surprised if they think they are.

I agree and I'm trying to not get angry about it as well. I know it's what happens so maybe it's the timing or maybe lately I'm seeing things in a different light. But I think it's just wrong, very wrong.
Not that the Queen gives a dam what I or anyone else thinks, and maybe that's why I'm so angry.


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Though she's wearing another of her hats as she merrily promotes her son, that's our Queen, and our Head of State doing this. :angry:

I've been expecting Andrew's mommy to give him a new honor just like she did last time he was in hot water back in 2011 when she made him a Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.
This turning a blind eye to Andrew's many transgressions makes me admire Queen Mary even more, I'm sure she loved her son David, but she chose to support her second son when David refused to put duty before personal gratification.

In 2011 The Queen also gave the same award to Edward and he hadn't done anything outrageous. I suspect that The Queen had planned these awards in advance and decided to ignore other events and go ahead anyway. She knows that Charles won't be giving her younger sons any more gongs so she is going to give them all she can in the time she has left.

I thoroughly agree, Sndral. For Queen Mary duty to one's country came before everything. This is the worst possible timing and as an Australian monarchist I am in despair over this move. Could'nt the Queen's advisers have suggested a postponement?

It's no surprise Andrew has received a promotion like this. I wonder how people are going to act when The Queen gives the Duchess if Cambridge some honorary military appointments?

I'm feeling the same I can't defend this to my friends that want a republic because it's just so very wrong
I wonder if anyone did advise a postponement and it wasn't listen too



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I can still only see in the times any chance they could be wrong 🙏


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I agree that this was not the right time, but calm down.

From The Times.
A royal source said it was a standard Ministry of Defence promotion that related to the rank the duke would have reached had he stayed in the navy.

A Buckingham Palace spokesman said: “This was approved by the Queen in line with long-standing convention covering military promotions for members of the royal family.”

The duke, who served in the Falklands War as a helicopter pilot, left the Royal Navy in 2001. Since the allegations about him — which he strongly denies — surfaced in the US, he has continued his work with training, technology and entrepreneurship.

People will use anything to have a go.

Not sure what this means


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Well twitter is going off about this some are very funny all very interesting


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Dickie Arbiter
So The Duke of York is now a Vice-Admiral. His brother in law Tim Laurence became one on merit working his way up through the ranks


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Indeed there will be 2 BRF visits in two weeks, but the purpose and scope of the two visits are very different. Andrew is visiting for a specific event. Prince Charles' trip, at the behest of the government, is really, IMO, about engaging select M-E governments in this time of change. He made a very similar trip around 2 years ago once there was regime change in Qatar as well.

With regard to Andrew's promotion, I am not surprised people will be unhappy about it. All I can say is that the "Monarchy machine" with all its protocols, procedures and traditions carries on regardless of negative media reports or current ways of thinking. In some ways, that is a good thing and underlines the continuity aspect of monarchy, thus why should a few recent news stories halt what was going to happen anyway.

I can't see that Charles will change the rules - after all, thankfully, he has only two sons, one of whom will be king and the other will have probably continued his career and been promoted to higher ranks that way.

Congratiulations to the Duke of York!

It was no surprise. The official position of the Palace is that His Royal Highness is totally innocent and therefore the allegations that have been made against him should be ignored.

Award?

It is about a military rank, not an award.

And the Queen did not gave "the same award" (I suppose here is meant: military rank) to Prince Edward. The last one is a Commodore of the Royal Fleet Auxilliary (=civilian fleet owned by the Ministry of Defense) and that is a couple of ranks lower and far less prestigious than a Vice-Admiral in the Royal Navy.

Both the Princes William and Harry will be promoted and promoted, after all Prince William will once reach the status of Commander-in-Chief and enjoy the highest ranks. Prince Harry will probably reach the same status as his father enjoys now: Field Marshal in the British Army, Admiral of the Fleet in the Royal Navy, Air Marshal in the Royal Air Force...

:flowers:

Prince Andrew, Duke of York Current Events 8: February 2015
 

Does Andrew hold any commissions in the Army and RAF? I know William and Charles have Army, Navy & RAF commissions and have worn all 3 uniforms. Harry, I believe, only has an Army one and we have never seen him wear a Navy or Raf uniform that I recall. I don't remember seeing Andrew in anything other than a naval uniform.

It makes sense that the direct heir has all 3 since they will be head of the armed forces but doesn't seem a necessary for the spare.


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No, what Andrew and Edward both got in 2011 was the award of the Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, which is the the highest possible honour for distinguished ‘personal service’ to the Queen. It has nothing to do with the military. In Andrew's case, it was highly controversial: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hile-link.html

Interestingly, The Countess of Wessex has been a Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victoria Order since 2010, receiving her gong the year before her husband got his.

The Duke of York has been in military service and had active duty during the Falklands military campaign. He indeed "only" served in the Royal Navy. Before Prince Harry, he was the last most recent British Royal with real battlefield experience. The Duke has many commissions as Royal Colonel in different branches of the armed forces.

When the Duke of Cambridge walked down the aisle with Catherine, he suddenly wore the striking scarlet uniform of the Irish Guards while he was actively working as Lieutenant in the RAF. He just wore the red uniform as Honorary Royal Colonel of the Irish Guards. This is a proof that Andrew also can wear other uniforms as he wants, for an example the one of the 9th/12th Royal Lancers (The Prince of Wales's).

Two things:
Congrats Vice Admiral Andrew - BBC News - Prince Andrew promoted to vice-admiral on 55th birthday
and link to Andrew's honorary military appointments (scroll down) Prince Andrew, Duke of York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I went to the Duke of York's website the only military ranks it talks about is his naval ones - he retired as a Commander and then was promoted to honorary Captain, Rear Admiral and now Vice Admiral.

The honorary appointments of royal colonels, Commodores in Chiefs of regiments, Raf bases and Naval divisions are separate from his military rank in the service that holds his commission.

William is colonel of the Irish Guards but if he rejoined his army regiment that holds his commission The Blues and Royals today- he is just a Captain which is his current rank.
The same for the Navy where he is a Lieutenant and the RAF where he is a Ft. Lieutenant despite having higher honorary positions in the Navy and RAF.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.




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That's right. William and Charles hold commissions in all three branches of the service in addition to any honorary appointments they may hold.

Andrew has only served in the Navy

The Monarchy website has not been updated to note the latest promotion. It currently says this about Andrew, on his "Service Appointments" page:

"The Duke of York is a Rear Admiral in the Royal Navy and holds two naval service appointments:
- Commodore-in-Chief, Fleet Air Arm, since 2006
- Admiral of the Sea Cadet Corps, which he took over from The Duke of Edinburgh in 1992"

It then goes on to list his various "appointments" in the UK and Commonwealth forces. It is only in respect of his RAF appointment that it is mentioned that the appointment is Honorary.

It is this failure to make it clear that the appointments are honorary that I object to. I don't care how many honorary ranks he holds in however many regiments TPTB choose to give him and the other members of the RF, because I think there is a good reason for them, but I do think it should be made unambiguously clear that he has earned none of the ranks he has received since 2001.

We know he served with some distinction in the RAN but he left the navy in 2001 with the rank of Commander, and that is what his real rank is, and it's a perfectly fine rank, too. However he has never done anything to earn the rank of Commodore or Rear Admiral or Vice Admiral, and what would the Fleet Air Arm, of which the website would have us believe he has been Commodore-in-Chief since 2006, think if he turned up and started issuing orders there? Those recent ranks and appointments are clearly honorary and to imply, as the website does, that the ranks he has been promoted to since 2001 are genuine (by which I mean earned) is downright deceitful, IMO.

:previous:

This is what was published in the Times on the Court Page

Her Majesty The Queen has graciously agreed that: Rear Admiral His Royal Highness The Duke of York KG GCVO ADC be promoted Vice Admiral with effect from February 19, 2015, and Honorary Rear Admiral His Royal Highness Prince Michael of Kent GCVO be promoted Honorary Vice Admiral Royal Naval Reserve with effect from March 9, 2015

You dont think, in light of the Epstein issue, that this is an extremely inappropriate and inauspicious time for QEII to bestow on honor on Andrew apropos of nothing? Either she's done it 1. to gloss over the controversy, 2. doesnt care what the general population thinks or 3. is completely oblivious. None of these are good for the monarchy. JMHO of course :flowers:

This seems to be a contractual obligation on the part of the MoD after Andrew left active service. The Queen just rubber stamps it. I have no issues at all with this promotion.

Prince Andrew promoted to the rank of vice-admiral*by the Queen | Daily Mail Online

Are you trying to increase my blood pressure, cepe? :lol:

So Michael's promotions are expressly Honorary, yet Andrews are made out to be real. Michael served for 20 years and though I can't find out exactly what his rank was when he ceased active service, it seems he could have been a Captain since his first post-service appointment was as Commodore, though this is speculation.

This is not improving my disposition on the issue. If there was a long-standing tradition, why was a contract entered into in 2009, 8 years after Andrew left active service? The contract doesn't explain his "promotion" to Captain in 2005. This revelation just seems to makes it worse. His mummy can now claim she is obliged to do it under a contract. https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...Kkz9yFAQEAOw== Totally out of touch. https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...Kkz9yFAQEAOw==

As far as I know Prince Michael didn't serve in the RN so his rank as Vice Admiral is described as honorary
Prince Michael was an Army officer during his time in the military

Edit: Not sure this is the reason but it seems plausible

You're quite right about his service, at least based on what I can find out about it, which isn't much. I mistakenly assumed he ended up in the navy because of the appointment as Commodore. So why has he been given this Honorary navy rank at all? Why not give him army ranks? ETA. I see he was made an Honorary Colonel of the army in 2010.

Prince Michael's Honorary rank is w/the Naval Reserves, not the RN. Believe me, there is a difference and God help you saying there isn't to a serving member/Veteran of any Navy out there. I made that mistake once at a Veterans Event and my ears blistered for weeks afterwards.


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I'm putting forward an alternative view (so it feels anyway) about Andrew.

Firstly, nothing of his work is ever reported in the media. This means that people reading the recent allegations think that that is all there is. Not true.

He spends considerable time with the military - across all of his "Honorary" responsibilities. This year he has already spent time with:
Fleet Air Arm
9th/12th Lancers (Prince of Wales’s)
The Yorkshire Regiment (14th/15th, 19th and 33rd/76th Foot)

as well as an associated patronage - Army Museums Ogilby Trust

In addition he is committed, and uses what Prince Charles calls "convening power", to bring together students and young entrepreneurs with business organisations. Two examples are Pitch@Palace and Inspiring Digital Enterprise Award (he attended a mentoring session today). This helps young people and boosts the technology sector.

He also has other patronages which he is committed to.

So he works hard, has causes he believes in and is getting on with his work.

The "anger" (a word used by a few posters) about his "promotion" appears to be generated merely because it is Andrew and because of the allegations (which have not been proven). If the issue is about Royals getting "promotions" then it should IMO, be on a different thread where it can be discussed without personalities being involved.

My opinion is that the work he does is good; he has some doubtful acquaintances; good father; and is innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not attempting to change anyone's mind and bring them over to my point of view
- this is just my opinion.

A good and reasoned post Cepe.

My issue is with Royals getting honours (including promotions) that are not merit based and I've bored on this subject on other threads. But I'm no more angered that Andrew has received the promotion than I would be if Charles or William had received it.

I know Andrew does work, but I can't help thinking the RF would be better off without him. He is the one member who is consistently under a cloud. and I think it would better serve his family if he were to retire and live quietly in the country.


(I bet that will happen once Charles succeeds).

Well said Roslyn.


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They all have honorary ranks across all of the services because there are a lot of military and not a lot (in comparison)royals.

None of us has all of the answers so this stands the risk of being a circular argument!

How's the blood pressure? :flowers:;)

Why?

Unless Andrew is proven, in a court of law, beyond reasonable doubt, to have committed a crime then he should be allowed to continue with his work - just as any other person would do so.

The witch hunt and hatred being spewed on many other sites is appalling. Fortunately this site has been semi-sane but even so there is still a lot of posters who seem to believe in guilty until PROVEN innocent rather than the other way around.

I have never seen any suggestion - from a reliable source - that Charles intends on casting aside his siblings. The suggestion that he will reduce the size of the royal family has been shown again and again on this board to have come from a low-level staff member big noting themselves in 1992 and that throw-away line has been taken to be the gospel truth rather than a possible suggestion.

That the York Princesses won't be taking on full-time royal duties is a given but those who are currently working for the Firm won't be thrown out just because The Queen has died.

Besides which there will still be a need for them as William and Kate have shown themselves to be lazy while Harry still has a military career to complete - so no full-time for him for another 20 or so years if he gets his way.

We all know that Andrew hasn't been charged with anything, though that may happen in the future. However, he was forced to resign as trade envoy due to scandal and neither he nor Fergie have exactly added lustre to the British Royal Family in the past couple of decades. I, and others, just happen to think that with his his past reputation Andrew is one of the most expendable members of the royal family.

Also, none of us know what Charles intends the makeup of the royal family to be in the new reign.

By the time Charles succeeds, even if it is relatively soon, Anne will be retirement age. (The Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra, and the Gloucesters are already past retirement age). They may wish to step down.

I may be wrong, but I think Charles would prefer to get rid of Andrew by sidelining him to the country. I don't think he cares much about getting rid of Edward, but if he keeps him and drops Andrew questions may be asked. If both are sidelined, Charles can simply say he is streamlining the monarchy.

From what I've read, not many of the public will object to that.

Richard Palmer @RoyalReporter · 4h 4 hours ago
By promoting Prince Andrew to Vice Admiral, the Queen, always blind to his shortcomings, shows utter contempt for the British public.

Richard Palmer @RoyalReporter · 4h 4 hours ago
Isn't it time for the Queen to end the convention of promoting her family members to ranks they would have held if still in the forces?

Just a quick reminder that if anyone wishes to discuss the roles of Andrew, Anne, and Edward etc when Charles becomes king you can do it in the Monarchy Under Charles thread:

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1749939

Mr Palmer from The Daily Express is probably one of the worst royal "journalists" around as the contents of his blabbing tweets already show. Little chance that Her Majesty will even tremble one eyelash because of his views.

Martin @CourtierUK · 3h 3 hours ago
Royal appointments/ranks within Armed Forces are an important means for fostering close bonds and relations to each branch of forces.

Martin @CourtierUK · 3h 3 hours ago
Talk to members of Forces about it and they say they appreciate the relationship with their royal colonel. It’s another form of recognition.

Martin @CourtierUK · 3h 3 hours ago
It’s to be stressed these appointments within the Forces by The Queen are honorary, not substantive.

When The Prince of Wales succeeds today, we will see these royals ending their public role sooner or later:

The Duke of Edinburgh
The Duke of Gloucester
The Duchess of Gloucester
The Duke of Kent
The Duchess of Kent
Princess Alexandra, the Hon. Lady Ogilvy
Prince Michael of Kent
Princess Michael of Kent

This means that then the circle is narrowed to the following adult members of the royal family:

The King
The Queen
The Prince of Wales
The Princess of Wales
The Prince Henry of Wales
The future Princess Henry of Wales
The Princess Royal
The Duke of York
The Earl of Wessex
The Countess of Wessex

As the Princess Royal, the Duke of York and the Earl of Wessex will of course also reach a certain age in one-two decades, I think we can safely assume that they will fade away when Prince George and his brother or sister reach their twenties. The group is really not that big. My assumption is that the new King will continue to make use of his siblings for the royal representation, all three of them.

The rest of the royal family (the children of the Duke of York and the Earl of Wessex) will only play secondary roles. The rest does effectively no longer belong to the real royal family: the Phillips family, the Tindall family, the Chatto family, the Linley family, etc.

I agree.

He accused the Queen of having interfered in the Scottish referendum. And he said it was strange that the Queen thought of the poor when she was so rich. And each time the group republic says something he writes articles or tweets about it etc.

I think Richard Palmer is one of the most honest and trusted royal reporters out there.

I and everyone I know who is interested in the monarchy thinks he is one of the worst.

I think Richard Palmer is one of the most acid and vitriolic royal reporters out there.

It seems that we all have different views on journalists, but to be honest my own personal feelings are that I take no notice of what most journalists say, good or bad.

If was anybody else other than Andrew would anybody even comment on it. Philip, Charles, Duke of Kent have all received these types of post leaving the service promotions.


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I agree with Dman. Palmer says how he sees it. He isnt 2-faced as in says one thing on twitter and writes something else.

you dont have to agree with him (and I dont always agree with him) but I have found him fair and consistent. And he has led the way in answering questions on twitter. So many journos steal info from twitterers and bloggers but never reply or give credit.

Very true. none have commented on Prince Michael at all.

Since I've been royal watching over several years, Richard Palmer has been the guy I (and many others) look to for answers the most. Reporters don't always get things right, and they often try to slip in their own personal opinions, but I think he's an alright guy. Better than Katie Nicholls. We haven't seen much of her lately though.

I really don't rate any royal reporters. They just try and stir the pot rather than report on the facts.

I lost faith in Palmer after he made a stink over Kate being a princess. That's basic royalty 101.

As for Andrew, yes the furore doesn't seem to extend to other royals gaining military honours but Andrew's reputation is in the toilet as far as the tabloids are concerned

While that's true I think they might have slipped past but because of the Andrew problem people are taking notice and starting to question the whole thing


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I'm pretty sure it is common knowledge that Philip and Charles didn't leave the Royal Navy as admirals but they have worn an admiral's uniform for several years.


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In my humble opinion fairness and consistency are far away when only now, with the Duke of York, Mr Palmer sees a problem. While tackling the automatic promotion of the Duke, he totally ignored the promotion of Prince Michael to the rank of Rear Admiral. When the absolutely non-militair "Princess Kate" became a Canadian Ranger (a component of the Canadian armed forces) I have not heard Mr Palmer uttering any protests against this military appointment.

:flowers:

Perhaps people are not commenting adversely on the appointments to Prince Michael because his are expressly stated to be Honorary whereas Andrew's are not and appear substantive.

Perhaps though, as Richard Palmer and fellow posters on Twitter have discussed, the practice of promoting minor royals into military positions (even honorary ones) they have not earned should cease after this reign.

There is a need for Heads of State and the heir to be awarded the highest rank because the Sovereign is head of the Armed Forces. However, the others could cease at the rank of hon Colonel and equivalent in Navy and Air Force. Why should Prince Michael be granted a senior honorary rank? What has he ever done to deserve such an honour?

There is a resentment about Andrew getting this promotion straight after he's been mired in scandal for weeks, and if the royal family aren't careful the cynicism about their members getting an easy ride through life no matter what, could well increase.

Palmer is only stating what others are saying and if the royal family think that the public are happy and satisfied that this has been done they are sadly mistaken. I think it's a disaster in terms of PR.

:previous: I agree with you; I was just pointing out that Michael's shiny new toy is expressly honorary, because I think the distinction is important.

I think the timing was appalling and I was pleased to see Palmer's comment because I have always had regard for his opinions. People were jokingly saying that after this latest Epstein controversy we would see Andrew rewarded by Mummy, and we get this! It was too good to be true for the cynical amongst us, and, I believe, a PR disaster.

I agree the timing was appalling at time when you would think that they wouldn't want front page news



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While I won't defend many of the actions of Sarah in the last couple decades, she hasn't been a member of the BRF for just shy of two decades now so she isn't exactly expected to be bringing any lustre to the family.

Further, while Andrew has definitely had his share of screw ups he has worked hard for the BRF. The fact of the matter is that it ultimately doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do; he could be the hardest working member of the BRF and sever all ties to all of his less lustrous or more questionable friends - including his ex-wife - and yet he would still be criticized for no reason other than the fact that he's Andrew. I think the man has certainly screwed up in the past and has questionable friends - and if the allegations being made against him now are true then I don't think he should get off - but he has worked hard to support his family as well. And his relationship with Sarah isn't as bad of a thing as people like to make it out to be - problems aside, the two of them have two children together and in maintaining a good relationship, and in providing the support that Andrew has provided Sarah, they've done a lot for their kids.

Every time Sarah flogs things in the United States or gives interviews in the US she is regarded, de facto, by many Americans as being a member of the BRF. She makes hay while the sun shines over her (fading) royal connections, otherwise no-one would bother with her.

She wouldn't get away with it in Britain as she herself knows very well. Americans are not particularly tuned in as to who is a current member of the royal family or not.

She got into trouble through money for connections to Prince Andrew, in her last mess, didn't she? Andrew is still a royal, unfortunately. Both their reputations are down the toilet, largely because of their own actions, and neither have done credit to the BRF.

Yes, they have been good parents to their children.

True, but I think they frequently get a pass on questionable behavior because people say they are good parents.

And, are they really, or did they get lucky? Their daughters obviously love them no matter what, but we really don't know what kind of parents they have been.

The American people knows Sarah and Andrew are divorced, and that she's not a current member of the royal family. It's the American people that embraced her after her famous and public divorce and helped her get back on her feet.

What is going on in Andrew's case is a Testimonium de Auditu (a case based on hearsay). "A friend of a colleague of mine thought that the boy often had blue and bruised spots" (via-via suggesting there might be domestic violence). This is not accepted as evidence and might also not hang like a cloud above someone.

So Buckingham Palace is the one being consistent here: there is no case against the Duke, allegations uttered in media as a fall-out from another case are categorically denied and it was time for this promotion in rank given the "timetable" for such promotions.

They are both fully honorary. It is not that the Duke of York suddenly is expected in the Admiralty to discuss tactics and strategies of Her Majesty's fleet.

Prince Michael has never been in service of the Navy and his appointment in the Royal Navy Reserve is therefore honorary. The Duke of York however was a high-ranked naval officier by profession.

1979 Officer Cadet
1980 Midshipsman
1983 Lieutenant
1984 Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen
1991 Lieutenant-Commander
1999 Commander
2001 retirement from the Royal Navy and the Ministry of Defence
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2004 Captain
2010 Rear Admiral
2015 Vice Admiral

Duke of York opens new travel tech incubator - The Wharf

HRH The Duke of York attends the 'Pitch@Palace' event

Belga

Belga Image - Editorial

More: 'If Beatrice or Eugenie wanted to start a business I would say get on with it': Prince Andrew on launching a fashion label with his daughters - London Life - Life & Style - London Evening Standard

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The Duke of York has visited the AkzoNobel Decorative Paints facility at Slough in Berkshire today, April 13:



** gettyimages/zimbio gallery **


** dailymail: Relieved Prince Andrew makes first official appearance since...**

:previous: Good for Andrew!

The Duke of York - representing The Queen - lays a wreath at the Cenotaph to mark the 70th anniversary of VE Day, 8 May 2015.
https://www.facebook.com/TheBritishM...786042/?type=1

:previous:

Where can I see more pictures?

Prince Andrew spotted wearing a new £12,000 Apple Watch at Buckingham Palace event* | Daily Mail Online

This at a time when the Queen/ Buckingham Palace grey men are being criticised for sacking long term staff and throwing them out of their homes! I believe that Andrew got this watch as a 'gift' from Apple, no-one else. He is an absolute disgrace!

Personally I don't see it as a big deal. All it tells me is that perhaps Andrew likes the newfangled gadgets fresh off the assembly line. Whether or not it was a gift or a purchase by Andrew, I would bet my last peanut butter cup that he can well afford it.

It's tacky but Andrew isn't exactly known for his smarts I doubt it occurred to him it would upset people. Probably a gift and it worked it got noticed and now Apple have some free publicity a Prince wearing their watch. I doubt it would change what is happening staff wise at the Palace, the Royals are always getting gifts etc.

While I'm not a Andrew fan I can't see anything wrong in getting a watch. My 2 sons have got their apple watch they can afford them and love new technology.
So he's got the dearest one big deal he's done far worse. He working with young people in start up business ( well I think it's something like that )so would be interested in any thing new


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

By the way there not tacky


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

Why is he an absolute disgrace? I have seen these watches at the Apple Store over here in Dijon (in the Bourgondie) and they really look amazing. They cost between 400 and 600 Euro depending on the version. You will not get a Patek Philippe, a Breguet, a Jaeger-Le Coultre or a Vacheron horloge for that amount...

:flowers:


To balance Andrew's spending of 400-600 Euro somewhat. Here you see (then) Princess Máxima sporting a Patek Philippe horloge of... 23.000 Euro: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...5&d=1380443772 So all by all, the Brits have a bargain with Andrew... ;)

Royal Central @RoyalCentral · 16m 16 minutes ago
Next Thursday The Duke of York will take the salute at the Royal Hospital Chelsea Founders Day.

Prince Andrew was present at the Founders Day parade at the Royal Hospital Chelsea today.

The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 1h1 hour ago
HRH to Chelsea Pensioners on #FoundersDay @RHChelsea : “the lifelong service that you have given should never ever be forgotten. Thank you”

The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 1h1 hour ago
The Duke greets veterans at the 323rd annual #FoundersDay parade @RHChelsea
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The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 1h1 hour ago
The @RHChelsea is home to 300 retired soldiers including 88 veterans of World War II #FoundersDay
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The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 1h1 hour ago
19 Chelsea Pensioners received the Légion d’Honneur for service to France on D-Day and beyond in 1944 #FoundersDay
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Royal Central ‏@RoyalCentral 4h4 hours ago
Prince Andrew will attend a service at St Paul's Cathedral marking 10 years since the July 7th London bombings.

Prince Andrew is the new Chancellor of University of Huddersfield, to be installed at the July graduation ceremonies. He has been Patron of the University since 2013.

Uni. of Huddersfield ‏@HuddersfieldUni 13h13 hours ago
We're delighted to announce that @TheDukeOfYork is @HuddersfieldUni’s new Chancellor from July

July - HRH The Duke of York, KG, to be appointed Chancellor - University of Huddersfield

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July 2nd:
The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 15h15 hours ago
The Duke has arrived in Papua New Guinea
Image One ** Image Two

July 3rd:
The Duke of York ‏@TheDukeOfYork 1h1 hour ago
The Duke of York visits the Bomana War Cemetery in Papua New Guinea to remember Commonwealth soldiers.
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