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dazzling 06-03-2014 03:16 AM

Titles, Names, Succession & Precedence after King Felipe's Accession
 
Titles, Names, Succession and Precedence



https://i.imgur.com/NDKQM8R.jpg

Duc_et_Pair 06-03-2014 04:06 AM

The new Heiress will, as long Prince/King Felipe fathers no son, inherit all her father's titles:

Her Royal Highness Doña Leonor de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Ortiz, Princess of Asturias, of Gerona and of Viana, Duchess of Montblanc, Countess of Cervera and Lady of Balaguer.

USCtrojan 06-03-2014 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1671526)
The new Heiress will, as long Prince/King Felipe fathers no son, inherit all her father's titles:

Her Royal Highness Doña Leonor de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Ortiz, Princess of Asturias, of Gerona and of Viana, Duchess of Montblanc, Countess of Cervera and Lady of Balaguer.


For some reason it sounds more regal for a princess, than it does for a prince. I love The Princess of Asturias' titles!

ANNIE_S 06-04-2014 04:32 PM

Some historical info about the titles the new Princess will held:

Princess of Asturias:
Prince of Asturias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Princess of Gerona (or Girona, in Catalan):
Prince of Girona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Princess of Viana:

Prince of Viana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duchess of Montblanc:
Duke of Montblanc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Countess of Cervera:
Count of Cervera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lady of Balaguer:
Lord of Balaguer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Note that they´re all the titles that the heir to the different Middle Ages Kingdoms that later will form the unificated Spain used to held: the Prince of Asturias was the heir to the Crown of Castile, the Prince of Viana was the heir to the Crown of Navarre, and the other 4 were destined to the heir to the Crown of Aragon.

I just love this kind of historical facts :tongue:

USCtrojan 06-04-2014 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANNIE_S (Post 1672404)
Some historical info about the titles the new Princess will held:

Princess of Asturias:
Prince of Asturias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Princess of Gerona (or Girona, in Catalan):
Prince of Girona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Princess of Viana:

Prince of Viana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duchess of Montblanc:
Duke of Montblanc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Countess of Cervera:
Count of Cervera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lady of Balaguer:
Lord of Balaguer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Note that they´re all the titles that the heir to the different Middle Ages Kingdoms that later will form the unificated Spain used to held: the Prince of Asturias was the heir to the Crown of Castile, the Prince of Viana was the heir to the Crown of Navarre, and the other 4 were destined to the heir to the Crown of Aragon.

I just love this kind of historical facts :tongue:


Thanks for sharing this!

ROYAL NORWAY 06-04-2014 05:05 PM

I'm not too familiar with the Spanish monarchy, but wonder will Juan Carlos and Sofia retain their titles?

ANNIE_S 06-04-2014 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY (Post 1672424)
I'm not too familiar with the Spanish monarchy, but wonder will Juan Carlos and Sofia retain their titles?

That is not decided yet. Historically, other kings have remained kings after the abdication, but it is not sure that is going to happen now.

casualfan 06-04-2014 06:34 PM

If Catalonia seceded, would that affect the title(s) associated with that region?

An Ard Ri 06-04-2014 06:35 PM

Isabella II retained her title of Queen post abdication,Alfonso XIII formally abdicated in 1941 ,10 years after he was deposed but was always referred to as King. I guess we'll have to wait & see what title Juan Carlos & Sofia use post abdication.

lula 06-05-2014 06:54 AM

According to press reports, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, will not use any noble title of the Crown. Probably they will keep the title of king and queen, but with some difference, King father and Queen mother or treatment of Royal Highnesses.

USCtrojan 06-05-2014 12:29 PM

However it looks, Sofia will always be a princess of Greece and Denmark, so she will at least retain that title. Perhaps the king will revert back to Don Juan Carlos. I don't foresee that being an issue as Queen Beatrix is now Princess Beatrix. That would be a good way to go about it in my opinion.

Duc_et_Pair 06-05-2014 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casualfan (Post 1672450)
If Catalonia seceded, would that affect the title(s) associated with that region?

No, because it are dynastical titles connected to the Heir(ess) as legitimate successor of the historic dynasty. It is not connected to the actual territory anymore.

Compare it with the title 'Prince of Orange'. In 1672 King Louis XIV of France wanted to hit his arch-nemesis William III of Nassau, Prince of Orange (Stadtholder of the United Provinces and also King of England, Scotland and Ireland). He occupied and seized the principality of Orange in the South of France. Finally, with the Treaty of Utrecht 1713, the heirs to the principality (the head of the Orange-Nassau dynasty and the head of the Hohenzollern dynasty) accepted the incorporation of the principality into France but kept the right to use the title "Prince of Orange" as a dynastical title. Still today Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia and Princess Catharina-Amalia of the Netherlands bear the ancient and proud title.

An eventual separatism will have no effect on the titulature of the Heir(ess). It remains part of the dynastical history.

:flowers:

Cory 06-05-2014 05:05 PM

Will the new King give up the title "His Catholic Majesty"?

Duc_et_Pair 06-05-2014 05:10 PM

That is not his title. His title is Rey de España and he has the prefix Su Majestad. Spain is a secular country and has no State Religion. The head of state of a secular country can not be "His Catholic Majesty".

King Juan Carlos himself spoke the wise words, when he sanctioned and promulgated the Bill which opened marriages for same-sex couples (under fierce protests of conservative Catholics): "Spanish Laws are made in Spain, not at the Vatican".

:flowers:

HereditaryPrincess 06-07-2014 12:10 PM

Will Infanta Sofia be given an additional title? I'm thinking along the lines of Duchess or Countess, since Infantas Elena and Cristina are both Duchesses. Just out of interest, what are the available titles amongst the SRF at the moment, or which one would Sofia most likely receive?

I've been wondering this for a while now, so I would appreciate any replies.

Charlotte_Aster 06-07-2014 12:13 PM

:previous:
Infantas Elena and Cristina received their titles upon their marriages. Up until then both of them were "just" Infantas and not Duchesses.

HereditaryPrincess 06-07-2014 12:20 PM

:previous: Ah OK, thanks for answering my question. :flowers: I didn't realize that their titles were bestowed to them upon their marriage. I guess the same will happen to Sofia in the future.

Duc_et_Pair 06-07-2014 12:34 PM

I prefer how the Dutch did it. Queen Wilhelmina, Queen Juliana and Queen Beatrix gave a rigid interpretation of abdication: for the Constitution an abication has the same effect as death. Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi! All three Queens reverted to the style they had before the kingship. No any confusion possible: there is only one King and eventually one Queen. (Not like in Belgium two Kings and three Queens, all of them also conflicting with each other so now and then.

I would like it when the King revert to the old style: Su Alteza Real Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón, Infante de España. Eventually with a secondary title like Conde de Barcelona. The example is there: Charles V, who abdicated his many, many thrones in 1555/1556 reverted to the simple style he had before his accession to the throne: Count of Charolais.

An Ard Ri 06-07-2014 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess (Post 1673635)
Will Infanta Sofia be given an additional title? I'm thinking along the lines of Duchess or Countess, since Infantas Elena and Cristina are both Duchesses. Just out of interest, what are the available titles amongst the SRF at the moment, or which one would Sofia most likely receive?

I've been wondering this for a while now, so I would appreciate any replies.

Both of the King's daughters and sisters were given Dukedoms for life only and will merge back with the Crown after they pass away.

Infanta Pilar,Duchess of Badajoz, Viscountess de la Torre ,in 1967 HRH married the late Viscount de la Torre
Infanta Margarita created Duchess of Soria in 1981
Infanta Elena Duchess of Lugo upon marriage in 1995
Infanta Cristina Duchess of Palma de Mallorca upon marriage upon marriage in 1997

The exception is the Duchy of Hernani which was inherited by Infanta Margarita in 1981 and will pass to her only son HE Don Alfonso Juan Carlos Zurita

Stefan 06-07-2014 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 1673659)
Both of the King's daughters and sisters were given Dukedoms for life only and will merge back with the Crown after they pass away.

Infanta Pilar,Duchess of Badajoz, Viscountess de la Torre
Infanta Margarita created Duchess of Soria in 1981
Infanta Elena Duchess of Lugo upon marriage in 1995
Infanta Cristina Duchess of Palma de Mallorca upon marriage upon marriage in 1997

The exception is the Duchy of Hernani which was inherited by Infanta Margarita in 1981 and will pass to her only son HE Don Alfonso Juan Carlos Zurita

But the the title Visconde de Torre did belong to the Infanta Pilar's late husband and not it those of her oldest son Juan.

An Ard Ri 06-07-2014 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1673662)
But the the title Visconde de Torre did belong to the Infanta Pilar's late husband and not it those of her oldest son Juan.

Yes Infanta Pilar's late husband Don Luis held that title and it was inherited by his eldest son upon the death of Don Luis Gomez Acebo in 1991.Since then HRH The Infanta Pilar is styled Duchess of Badajoz & Dowager Viscountess de la Torre.

dazzling 06-08-2014 03:14 AM

Ive been reading online that Leonor's title will be changed from Infanta to Highness. Has there been any confirmation or announcement re titles?

Duc_et_Pair 06-08-2014 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1673662)
But the the title Visconde de Torre did belong to the Infanta Pilar's late husband and not it those of her oldest son Juan.

Isn't Infanta Doña Pilar the Dowager Viscountess de la Torre and her son Don Juan being the actual Viscount?

Duc_et_Pair 06-08-2014 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzling (Post 1673871)
Ive been reading online that Leonor's title will be changed from Infanta to Highness. Has there been any confirmation or announcement re titles?

(Royal) Highness is no title but a form of adress, like The Honourable, His Excellency, His Grace, The Reverend, whatever. Infanta de España (litterally: Child of Spain) is the title.

Doña Leonor and her sister Doña Sofía remain Infanta de España and they already have Su Alteza Real (Her Royal Highness) as a form of adress.

Stefan 06-08-2014 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1673893)
(Royal) Highness is no title but a form of adress, like The Honourable, His Excellency, His Grace, The Reverend, whatever. Infanta de España (litterally: Child of Spain) is the title.

Doña Leonor and her sister Doña Sofía remain Infanta de España and they already have Su Alteza Real (Her Royal Highness) as a form of adress.


But when Leonor became Princess of Asturias she will cease to be an Infanta. The same as Felipe is not an Infante anymore since he was created Prince of Asturias.

Charlotte_Aster 06-08-2014 05:18 AM

She will not cease to be an Infanta, for that title is for life. Felipe is still, as the son of the King, entitled to use the title of an Infante, but since the Prince of Asturias title is superior to the that of an Infante, he is styled as Prince of Asturias.
His full title is: His Royal Highness the Most Serene Infante Don Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Grecia, Prince of Asturias, Prince of Girona, Prince of Viana, Duke of Montblanc, Count of Cervera and Lord of Balaguer.

As an analogy:
Prince Charles is still "THE" Prince Charles but he uses Prince of Wales, because it is the superior title.

Stefan 06-08-2014 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster (Post 1673903)
She will not cease to be an Infanta, for that title is for life. Felipe is still, as the son of the King, entitled to use the title of an Infante, but since the Prince of Asturias title is superior to the that of an Infante, he is styled as Prince of Asturias.
His full title is: His Royal Highness the Most Serene Infante Don Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Grecia, Prince of Asturias, Prince of Girona, Prince of Viana, Duke of Montblanc, Count of Cervera and Lord of Balaguer.

Acoording to the Royal Decree of 1987 about Royal Titles she will.
" Those children of the King other then the Prince or Princess of Asturias
and the children of said Prince or Princess are Infantes of Spain. "

See here: Infantes de España

You have to scroll down to see the Royal Decree of 1987.

Duc_et_Pair 06-08-2014 05:31 AM

The title Infante (Infanta) de España is automatic for all children of the Sovereign or the Heir. The person of the Heir is known as Prince (Princess) of Asturias, etc. When a Heir ceases to be the first successor indeed, he/she automatically reverts to the general rule, as arranged with the Royal Decree of 1987.

Spain still has a male-preferred primogeniture and for so far there are no changes (which require a reform of the Constitution). When the new Princess of Asturias gets a younger brother, she automatically becomes Infanta de España again. Her younger brother will then be the new Prince of Asturias.

Duc_et_Pair 06-08-2014 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster (Post 1673903)
[....] His Royal Highness the Most Serene Infante Don Felipe

Me gusta! I like that style!

:flowers:

An Ard Ri 06-08-2014 05:44 AM

Has there been any announcement on Juan Carlos & Sofia's title post abdication?

I do like HRH Don Juan Carlos,Infante de Espana.

An Ard Ri 06-08-2014 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1673907)
Acoording to the Royal Decree of 1987 about Royal Titles she will.
" Those children of the King other then the Prince or Princess of Asturias
and the children of said Prince or Princess are Infantes of Spain. "

See here: Infantes de España

You have to scroll down to see the Royal Decree of 1987.

Currently there's only one Infante in Spain using that title ,the king's cousin Infante Carlos,Duke of Calabria and Count of Caserta .

Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Duc_et_Pair 06-08-2014 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 1673916)
Has there been any announcement on Juan Carlos & Sofia's title post abdication?

I do like HRH Don Juan Carlos,Infante de Espana.

No information yet. When the King will no longer have the title of King, then he is automatically Infante de España. Like his father:

Su Alteza Real Don Juan de Borbón y Battenberg, Infante de España, Conde de Barcelona.

I think it would be nice when Don Juan Carlos will use the same title as his father (Conde de Barcelona).

An Ard Ri 06-13-2014 05:49 AM

As per Hola Juan Carlos & Sofia will retain the title of King & Queen

Don Juan Carlos y doña Sofía mantendrán el título de Rey y Reina

lula 06-13-2014 08:57 AM

It's official.

King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, keep the title of King and Queen, with treatment of Majesty.

In protocol they will receive the same honors set for the Prince or Princess of Asturias.

They will be at the events after Infanta Sofía.

PetticoatLane 06-13-2014 09:41 AM

:whistling: I can't see any potential problems with that decision. None at all.

An Ard Ri 06-13-2014 12:54 PM

Felipe VI's Coat of Arms

Nuevo escudo y nuevo guion para Felipe VI, Telediario - RTVE.es A la Carta

ROYAL NORWAY 06-13-2014 04:03 PM

Spain will have two kings and two queens - Telegraph

Esmerelda 06-13-2014 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 1675662)
It's official.

King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, keep the title of King and Queen, with treatment of Majesty.

In protocol they will receive the same honors set for the Prince or Princess of Asturias.

They will be at the events after Infanta Sofía.

So little Sofia takes precedent over the former king and queen?

wyevale 06-13-2014 04:47 PM

A whole new meaning to 'Los Reyes' !

Terri Terri 06-13-2014 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 1675662)
It's official.

King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, keep the title of King and Queen, with treatment of Majesty.

In protocol they will receive the same honors set for the Prince or Princess of Asturias.

They will be at the events after Infanta Sofía.

To be honest...I could not see King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofa settling for anything less! After all, they have been majesties for almost 39 years!

Huddo74 06-15-2014 07:58 PM

I like the fact that Juan Carlos and Sofia will keep their titles so long as Juan Carlos doesn't do a Abert II of Belgium. Sofia I think will be a major assest and I hope she continues to appear in public and attend offical events

Elektra 06-19-2014 03:50 AM

The official site Casa Real has been updated.

The former Infanta Leonor is now HRH The Princess of Asturias, Princess of Girona, Princess of Viana, Duchess of Montblanc, Countess of Cervera and Lady of Balaguer.

Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España - Her Royal Highness the Princess of Asturias

Charlotte_Aster 06-19-2014 03:59 AM

The coat of arms of the King:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_...sh_Monarch.svg
The coat of arms of the Queen:
Letizia of Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Josefine 06-20-2014 04:26 AM

If felipe would die before Leonore becomes 18 WHO Will regent for her? The state? Elena?

muriel 06-20-2014 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josefine (Post 1678420)
If felipe would die before Leonore becomes 18 WHO Will regent for her? The state? Elena?

If you follow the Dutch and British examples, it will be Queen Letizia

An Ard Ri 06-20-2014 05:41 AM

Both the Infantas Elena and Cristina are no longer part of the Royal family and their profiles have been removed from the Casa Real website.

The Royal family post abdication

H.M.The King
H.M.The Queen
HRH The Princess of Asturias
HRH The Infanta Sofia
H.M.King Juan Carlos
H.M.Queen Sofia

The Kings Family
HRH Infanta Elena & children
HRH Infanta Cristina/Inaki & children
HRH Infanta Pilar
HRH INfanta Margarita & HE The Duke of Soria

Pumuki 06-20-2014 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muriel (Post 1678431)
If you follow the Dutch and British examples, it will be Queen Letizia

It's the same in Spain. Letizia would regent until Leonor became 18.

I also read that Elena, despite not being part of the Royal Family anymore, will be the one to take on Leonor's "official agenda" and represent the Crown in her name until she becomes 18.

ladongas 06-20-2014 11:48 AM

Immunity
 
Here's an article about one of the reasons why Juan Carlos and Sofia will retain their titles:

Spanish king and queen to retain titles and immunity after abdication | World news | theguardian.com

A royal decree to be passed by the council of ministers on Wednesday will ensure that the royal couple maintain their immunity from civil or criminal prosecution.

Almost as soon as the king announced his abdication this month there was speculation as to whether the royals would retain their immunity. The government, caught off guard, began drawing up special legislation within 24 hours of the announcement.

TLLK 06-20-2014 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumuki (Post 1678544)
It's the same in Spain. Letizia would regent until Leonor became 18.

I also read that Elena, despite not being part of the Royal Family anymore, will be the one to take on Leonor's "official agenda" and represent the Crown in her name until she becomes 18.


Which make perfect sense.

kadeh 06-24-2014 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 1678451)
Both the Infantas Elena and Cristina are no longer part of the Royal family and their profiles have been removed from the Casa Real website.

The Royal family post abdication

H.M.The King
H.M.The Queen
HRH The Princess of Asturias
HRH The Infanta Sofia
H.M.King Juan Carlos
H.M.Queen Sofia

The Kings Family
HRH Infanta Elena & children
HRH Infanta Cristina/Inaki & children
HRH Infanta Pilar
HRH INfanta Margarita & HE The Duke of Soria

This is quite interesting, thanks for sharing. And as far as I see it this hasn't been noted much.

I checked the website on the day of the proclamation and wondered how it looked like before, who was mentioned ...

That Inaki had been "erased" when the accusations started - ok I knew that. But in the first moment I thought "Did the change it now because of a probable accusation of Cristina?"


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