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vkrish 03-20-2013 05:59 AM

"Zadok The Priest" at British Royal Weddings?
 
Hi..
I really loved Zadok The Priest in the background of Fred-Mary's wedding at the bride's entrance.
Do they play this song at British Royal Weddings?
I am interested to know, because it was exclusively commissioned for Coronation,and used religiously at all the Coronations, so I am not sure they will use it at weddings..
Please let me know if it was used at any British/other Royal Weddings (of course other than Fred/Mary), and attach a link, only if possible.
After I get a few answers the mods may gladly merge this with a more relavant thread..

Archduchess Zelia 03-20-2013 06:44 AM

I haven't heard that it's been used at any British royal wedding. Apparently there were people who actually got very offended that Mary and Frederik used it for their wedding. I personally thought it was an odd choice, but it worked very well and it was so beautiful when she walked down the isle.

vkrish 03-20-2013 03:46 PM

Thanks, Zelia. Its interesting to know that a few people were offended. I am a stickler for rules from British point of view, but somehow I didnt dislike it a bit..
I actually hoped they would play it in Will-Kate's wedding in the Sovereign's Procession (Queen and DoE walk up the aisle led by C&C and Dean Of Wm), rather than bride's arrival. It would have been great.
But then, if IIRC, they cut the Sovereign's Procession right at the beginning, to show Kate leaving Goring Hotel and arrive at Abbey..

Ellenpaddy 03-25-2014 09:53 AM

Yesssss it made a wonderful enter acne for mary and frederik wedding

KittyAtlanta 03-25-2014 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkrish (Post 1529550)
Hi..
I really loved Zadok The Priest in the background of Fred-Mary's wedding at the bride's entrance.
Do they play this song at British Royal Weddings?
I am interested to know, because it was exclusively commissioned for Coronation,and used religiously at all the Coronations, so I am not sure they will use it at weddings..
Please let me know if it was used at any British/other Royal Weddings (of course other than Fred/Mary), and attach a link, only if possible.
After I get a few answers the mods may gladly merge this with a more relavant thread..

Zadok the Priest was written in 1727 by G.F. Handel for the coronation of George II. Suddenly (well, not suddenly), it is being used for everything.

MARG 03-26-2014 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia (Post 1529553)
I haven't heard that it's been used at any British royal wedding. Apparently there were people who actually got very offended that Mary and Frederik used it for their wedding. I personally thought it was an odd choice, but it worked very well and it was so beautiful when she walked down the isle.

I have to admit, I was quite shocked at the processional. Not only was she not a Queen, at that point she wasn't even a Princess. Not withstanding the aforementioned, it is a very beautiful piece and was performed very well once you got past the "clanger'. I can only think the Frederik loved Mary very much and his mother 'indulged' him.

However, as with many things, just because you can doesn't mean you should is definitely a word to live by. Even HM seems only to hear it at Anniversay Celebrations or, occasionally performed as part of a choral concert. Personally I would like to see it remain a wonderful peice irrevocably tied to the BRF and the next grand occasion befitting this peice will be (hopefully) the next coronation.

Meanwhile I still have my stereo.

Ellenpaddy 03-27-2014 11:57 AM

I personally think that Song made a wonderful and beautiful entrance for the wedding mary and frederik....it's not like the British owned the song so no one can use that song ....well that's only opinion, hope there's no one feel offended....:)

Solon 08-24-2014 02:13 PM

I loved it too and thought it was really beautiful for a Mary's entrance music. The only problem is that it has the phrase "Long Live the Queen" in it, which is sort of out of place unless you're the Queen. It certainly had the desired effect since it made Frederik cry and he continued to cry through the entire thing.

Rudolph 08-24-2014 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellenpaddy (Post 1651673)
I personally think that Song made a wonderful and beautiful entrance for the wedding mary and frederik....it's not like the British owned the song so no one can use that song ....well that's only opinion, hope there's no one feel offended....:)

Well it is undeniably a coronation anthem for British monarchs.
It is one of the four Coronation Anthems that Handel composed for the coronation of King George II in 1727.

The words come from the King James Bible.

1 Kings 1:38–40 -- Zadok the Priest, and Nathan the Prophet anointed Solomon King. And all the people rejoiced, and said: God save the King! Long live the King! May the King live for ever, Amen, Allelujah.

Mary actually altered a Bible verse to make it "God save the Queen" for her entrance.

Nordic 08-24-2014 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 1697275)
Mary actually altered a Bible verse to make it "God save the Queen" for her entrance.

Mary altered....;)
How do you know Mary had something to do with choosing this particular piece? Maybe Mary and Frederik let Queen Margrethe choose most of the music.

Duc_et_Pair 08-24-2014 03:25 PM

The best music ever written for a (British) royal is the Music For The Funeral Of Queen Mary, written by Henry Purcell for Mary II of Nassau born Stuart, Queen of England, Scotland and Ireland, Princess of Orange and of Nassau (1662-1694). Then comes Zadok The Priest, in my very humble opinion.

cepe 08-24-2014 04:09 PM

coronation of QEII. "Vivat, vivat Regina, Vivat. vivat vivat!

so it wasn't Mary.

MidwestMom 08-24-2014 04:12 PM

I just watched the YouTube video again - twice. Not an unpleasant task. I heard the word 'King' not 'Queen.' It is an unusual choice, but with all the Alleluias, and the Amen, it worked. Besides, I don't think QMII would have allowed such a change. Just my opinion.

MidwestMom 08-24-2014 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cepe (Post 1697297)
coronation of QEII. "Vivat, vivat Regina, Vivat. vivat vivat!

so it wasn't Mary.

------------------------------------

That phrase is contained in ''I Was Glad'' by Charles Hubert Parry. It was used as the processional for the wedding of William and Catherine, but the 'Vivats' were omitted. It's a beautiful piece of music. I wonder how they'll handle it at Charles' coronation.

cepe 08-24-2014 04:18 PM

its normally/ originally in Latin. Rex for King; Regina for Queen.

Or did they do it in English?

Rudolph 08-24-2014 04:41 PM

"I was Glad" is also a British Coronation anthem first used for the coronation of William IV in 1831.

Parry's version was composed for the coronation of King Edward VII in 1902, and revised in 1911 for that of King George V. It is based on Psalm 122

The acclamations "Vivat Rex " or "Vivat Regina" with which the King's or Queen's Scholars of Westminster School have traditionally greeted the entrance of the monarch since the coronation of King James II in 1685 are only used with the reigning sovereign.

That's why it was omitted for Catherine's and William's wedding

Rudolph 08-24-2014 05:31 PM

I just wanted to add that I think Kate's choice of music was perfect for all the obvious reasons but I don't quite get the symbolism behind Mary using music so closely associated with the British monarchy

HereditaryPrincess 08-25-2014 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 1697313)
I just wanted to add that I think Kate's choice of music was perfect for all the obvious reasons but I don't quite get the symbolism behind Mary using music so closely associated with the British monarchy

I too thought it was a little strange that Mary and Frederik had Zadok The Priest at their wedding, since it is the British coronation anthem and she is the Crown Princess of Denmark. I think the Prince of Denmark's March would've been more appropriate. Having said that, I adore Zadok The Priest and plan to have it at my own wedding when the time comes (which isn't soon). I think I would only have it up until the first singing part starts though, since I find them more suited to a bride walking up the aisle. But I also like the idea of the church doors opening and the bride walking in the first time "Zadok The Priest and Nathan The Prophet" is sang.

This is off-topic although I wanted to share it here but couldn't find an appropriate thread, so decided that this one would be the best place for it. Anyway, there is a lovely edit of Zadok The Priest on YouTube, which finishes with Come Ye Sons Of Art, another beautiful piece which was written for Mary II's birthday (it is also known as "Ode To Queen Mary" IIRC). You can watch it below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG2UMO6rZd4

polyesco 08-25-2014 01:17 PM

its a little funny how some have just associated Mary with using this music "Mary using" "Mary altered"....
Is it confirmed that Mary choose the music herself and neither Frederik nor the Queen had anything to do with it? I cant imagine the music being used if the Queen did not approve (of course im talking about the Queen of Denmark).

Either way the entrance was beautiful and full of emotion

Rudolph 08-25-2014 01:19 PM

Very nice, thanks for sharing HereditaryPrincess.

I agree The Prince of Denmark's March would have been a better choice for Mary but it was composed by an Englishman, Jeremiah Clarke and the "Prince of Denmark" in this case was Prince George, husband to Queen Anne of Britain so it too has strong connections to the BRF.

Jacknch 08-25-2014 03:02 PM

I am quite sure I remember years ago reading that Queen Margrethe had a great deal of input and influence into the details of the wedding including the flowers and colours for the bridesmaids and so it would not surprise me if she suggested or agreed to Zadok The Priest for the bride's entrance.
I can only think of a very tenuous reason for using the piece and that is the fact that the British monarch is also the monarch of Tasmania.

MidwestMom 08-25-2014 03:28 PM

I agree The Prince of Denmark's March would have been a better choice for Mary but it was composed by an Englishman, Jeremiah Clarke and the "Prince of Denmark" in this case was Prince George, husband to Queen Anne of Britain so it too has strong connections to the BRF.[/QUOTE]

The 'Prince of Denmark's March' is also known as 'Trumpet Voluntary.' It was the processional music for Charles and Diana's wedding. If that had been used, Mary's detractors would probably have accused her of 'channeling' Diana.

OTOH, it could have been used at the entrance of Frederik and Joachim, but there was some sort of fanfare piece played at that time. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Frederik had the piece commissioned especially for the occasion.

As a church organist, I've played for more weddings than I care to remember. People's tastes tend to run wild when choosing wedding music. Maybe F&M just liked 'Zadok' as a lovely piece of music. It's certainly meant to be played at grand events.

Nordic 08-25-2014 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1697470)
I am quite sure I remember years ago reading that Queen Margrethe had a great deal of input and influence into the details of the wedding including the flowers and colours for the bridesmaids and so it would not surprise me if she suggested or agreed to Zadok The Priest for the bride's entrance.
I can only think of a very tenuous reason for using the piece and that is the fact that the British monarch is also the monarch of Tasmania.

And what if Queen M/and/or Mary and/or Frederik just happend to like it and suggested it...??;) Or someone else. Without any ulterior motive.

I'm sure Queen M had lots of input into the details of the wedding.

Rudolph 08-25-2014 03:37 PM

Usually though music is picked at royal weddings to invoke a certain mood and symbolism.
If Mary just liked the music that's fine but I can't help but think a lot of thought and planning went into the wedding of the Crown Prince of Denmark and to use a British coronation anthem as your wedding music again seems an odd choice to me.

Charles and Diana did use The Prince of Denmark's March but its an English composition and written for the British royal family.

Prince Charles is a patrilineal descendent of King Christian IX of Denmark so it was a nod to Charles father, the Duke of Edinburgh.

Archduchess Zelia 08-25-2014 03:51 PM

I have never quite understood all the fuss regarding this. Yes, it is a hymn that is very important to the BRF, I don't deny that, but the BRF hardly have patent on it? It's, however, not sacred to the DRF or the Danes and I would scarcely say that Frederik and Mary appropriated British royal history by using it – rather, they showed appreciation for the incredibly beautiful piece of music that Zadok the Priest is. It was interesting to hear it in other surroundings, so to speak.

Though I did think it was an odd choice for a bridal entrance – and prefer it as a coronation anthem as well, I also think it worked really well at their wedding. Zadok the Priest is a magnificent piece of music. And I loved that Mary and her father reached QMII and Frederik (and the rest of the royals – including a few Queens) just in time for the 'God Save the Queen'.

I, for one, am glad that neither they nor William and Catherine chose The Prince of Denmark's March. It's very tied to Diana and MF no doubt would have run into copying rumours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1697470)
I can only think of a very tenuous reason for using the piece and that is the fact that the British monarch is also the monarch of Tasmania.

Not to mention the fact that Mary's parents are Scottish.

wartenberg7 08-25-2014 04:44 PM

The acclamations "Vivat Rex " or "Vivat Regina" with which the King's or Queen's Scholars of Westminster School have traditionally greeted the entrance of the monarch since the coronation of King James II in 1685 are only used with the reigning sovereign.



Not quite. Queen consorts, preceeding their husbands at the entrance, are also acclaimed with these "Vivat!" shouts, such as happened at the coronations from 1911 ("Vivat Regina Maria!") or 1937 when the current Queen´s mother was crowned along her husband George VI. just as Catherine will be greeted at William´s coronation with "Vivat Regina Catharina!"

wartenberg7 08-25-2014 04:55 PM

[QUOTE=Archduchess Zelia;1697484]I have never quite understood all the fuss regarding this. Yes, it is a hymn that is very important to the BRF, I don't deny that, but the BRF hardly have patent on it? It's, however, not sacred to the DRF or the Danes and I would scarcely say that Frederik and Mary appropriated British royal history by using it – rather, they showed appreciation for the incredibly beautiful piece of music that Zadok the Priest is. It was interesting to hear it in other surroundings, so to speak.

Though I did think it was an odd choice for a bridal entrance – and prefer it as a coronation anthem as well, I also think it worked really well at their wedding. Zadok the Priest is a magnificent piece of music. And I loved that Mary and her father reached QMII and Frederik (and the rest of the royals – including a few Queens) just in time for the 'God Save the Queen'.



No, they don´t have a patent on it, and I think it should be used at any function appropriate! But the lyrics of this piece of music are about the hallowing and anointing of a monarch only and nothing else.
There´s not a single occasion on the whole planet that would come to my mind it is fitting except a british coronation simply because all the other monarchies chose to abandon it (may be with a second exception, and that would be the blessing of the norwegian monarch, who´s blessed by a bishop at the ceremony that once replaced the coronation).

Rudolph 08-25-2014 05:01 PM

A nice video mash up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW9Uudkx42g

Jacknch 08-25-2014 06:27 PM

Slightly off-topic, but I am reminded that Crown Princess Victoria walked down the aisle to the Duke of Gloucester's March and the Prince of Denmark's March is very popular for British brides (my parents had it at their wedding). So maybe through all this it is indeed just a nice, grand piece of music perfect for a bride's entrance.

MidwestMom 08-25-2014 08:39 PM

A random thought: if 'The Prince of Denmark's March' was a nod to the Danish ancestry of the Charles' father, 'Zadok' could be taken as recognition of Frederik's ancestor, Queen Victoria. Mary has ties to Scotland and Australia, so there is an English connection for her, too.

Rudolph 08-25-2014 09:10 PM

If the Dane's want to use British anthems for their wedding that's fine but Zadok the Priest is performed during the sovereign's anointing, the most sacred part of the religious service. The words come from the King James Bible and were altered to suit Mary and or Frederick. Not a good showing if you ask me.

The Prince of Denmark's March is thoroughly English, composed by an Englishman for the husband of Queen Anne.

Both pieces are forever linked to the BRF.

HereditaryPrincess 08-26-2014 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolph (Post 1697453)
Very nice, thanks for sharing HereditaryPrincess.

I agree The Prince of Denmark's March would have been a better choice for Mary but it was composed by an Englishman, Jeremiah Clarke and the "Prince of Denmark" in this case was Prince George, husband to Queen Anne of Britain so it too has strong connections to the BRF.

You are welcome. :flowers: I didn't realise that it was written for Prince George of Denmark and Queen Anne, but then again I don't know a lot about that particular time in royal history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidwestMom (Post 1697528)
A random thought: if 'The Prince of Denmark's March' was a nod to the Danish ancestry of the Charles' father, 'Zadok' could be taken as recognition of Frederik's ancestor, Queen Victoria. Mary has ties to Scotland and Australia, so there is an English connection for her, too.

You've raised a good point - I'd forgotten about Frederik being an ancestor of Queen Victoria. Now I have a better understanding of why Zadok The Priest was chosen for their wedding - so not it's not a totally strange choice then.

wartenberg7 08-26-2014 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidwestMom (Post 1697528)
A random thought: if 'The Prince of Denmark's March' was a nod to the Danish ancestry of the Charles' father, 'Zadok' could be taken as recognition of Frederik's ancestor, Queen Victoria. Mary has ties to Scotland and Australia, so there is an English connection for her, too.


But Queen Victoria wasn´t a priest, wasn´t she?! If that was the reason they could have taken any other piece of british music fitting for a wedding.
Yes, Mary has a scottish connection. But still the lyrics are about the concecration and hallowing of a monarch...
I believe they simply chose it because they like it and the wedding might have been their only chance during their lifetime to play such a piece of music. I also loved hearing it at the ceremony just because I like the piece. But when I think of it I must confess it really has nothing to do with a wedding.

When it comes to this "Prince of Denmark" ("Trumpet the voluntary") march I say, well, it´s just a march. A march is much more neutral than an anointing hymn, isn´t it?

MidwestMom 08-26-2014 02:22 PM

When it comes to this "Prince of Denmark" ("Trumpet the voluntary") march I say, well, it´s just a march. A march is much more neutral than an anointing hymn, isn´t it?[/QUOTE]
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Agreed. The appropriateness (or lack thereof) of wedding music is something organists deal with regularly. If you want to talk inappropriate, Wagner's ''Bridal Chorus'' (popular in the U.S., don't know about other countries) is part of his opera ''Lohengrin'' and sung as the guests accompany the newly married couple to the bridal chamber. Charming, huh? :ohmy: When you mention that to prospective brides, they usually change their mind. The ''Wedding March'' from ''A Midsummer Night's Dream'' by Mendelssohn is often used for the recessional. It's interesting to me that these two pieces are often paired; Wagner was an anti-Semite and Mendelssohn was born Jewish.

More recently, brides have requested Pachelbel's ''Canon in D'' as a processional. That's one of my favorite pieces of music, but as a processional, it doesn't work so well. I much prefer the British custom of using hymns. Princess Elizabeth (later QEII) used ''Praise My Soul, the King of Heaven.'' I believe Princess Anne used ''Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken'' but I'd have to look it up. If that is what was used, it's Haydn's ''Austrian Hymn'' which is also used for the German national anthem. We could go on all day!!!

I'm just happy when couples choose sacred music for a church wedding - that's as it should be. F&M had two wonderful hymns in their ceremony: ''Eternal Father, Strong to Save'' and ''Now Thank We All Our God.'' Both of them were good choices.

Sorry this post got so long, but this is a great thread. Thank you for letting me have my say. :flowers:


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