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-   -   Prince William Created Duke of Cambridge: April 29, 2011 (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f269/prince-william-created-duke-of-cambridge-april-29-2011-a-30869.html)

Osipi 05-02-2011 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson (Post 1247054)
After the kiss he bowed. It's at 0:45 in this video (which unfortunately cuts off right after):

YouTube - Queen Visits William 01.04.11

Absolutely right! I must have missed that as it was so quick.

biboquinhas 05-02-2011 05:35 AM

Well I think is time to open a new Thread for Duke and Duchess of Cambridge here :flowers:

Susanna Wynne 05-02-2011 11:28 AM

I will be interested in the new list of precedence which will be published soon, probably before the Trooping of the Colour.

Still, it was the Prince of Wales's communications secretary, Paddy Haverson, who was quoted by the Telegraph, a respectable paper, saying that calling her "Princess Catherine" was acceptable. They get that keeping the world from calling her "Princess Catherine" would be like holding back the waves of the ocean; but the Queen also had to 'officially' think of her daughter and the Duchess of Cornwall and the other blood princesses when creating her title and precedence. So, she has tried to please both Prince William and the rest of the family. No one should think that Paddy would have made such a statement if it wasn't sanctioned by the Prince of Wales and the Queen.

And it will be interesting how they are introduced at future public appearances if the Prince/Duke really wants to continue to be known as 'Prince William.' We shall soon see.

Lumutqueen 05-02-2011 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne
I will be interested in the new list of precedence which will be published soon, probably before the Trooping of the Colour.

Still, it was the Prince of Wales's communications secretary, Paddy Haverson, who was quoted by the Telegraph, a respectable paper, saying that calling her "Princess Catherine" was acceptable. They get that keeping the world from calling her "Princess Catherine" would be like holding back the waves of the ocean; but the Queen also had to 'officially' think of her daughter and the Duchess of Cornwall and the other blood princesses when creating her title and precedence. So, she has tried to please both Prince William and the rest of the family. No one should think that Paddy would have made such a statement if it wasn't sanctioned by the Prince of Wales and the Queen.

And it will be interesting how they are introduced at future public appearances if the Prince/Duke really wants to continue to be known as 'Prince William.' We shall soon see.

Paddy said that on the day of the wedding itself and I found it shocking. I think William will be introduce as either HRH The Duke of Cambridge or Prince William, The Duke of Cambridge.

Kataryn 05-02-2011 03:58 PM

I once read an article in a scientific publication for historians about the title of "Prince of Scotland". Most people don't know that the title of "The Prince and Great Steward of Scotland" is a title for the heir apparent which still includes certain rights within the Scottish law of today. Its very similar to the title "The Prince of Wales" and is the historical equivalent - the English had "Prince of Wales" for the heir, the Scottish had "Prince and Great Steward of Scotland".

But after 1603 the title ceased to be used in that very official form, it is now one of the titles of the heir apparent who, like the other heirs after 1603, prefers the title Duke of Rothesay when in Scotland. None the less, Charles is "The Prince of Scotland".

What was not longer used but still exists today according to the law that governed the creation of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" in 1701 is the title of Prince and Princess of Scotland for all male-line descendants of kings of the UK. That said, it means that Lord Frederick Windsor is in fact Lord Frederick Windsor, Prince of Scotland and his wife Sophie is not only Lady Frederick, but could call herself lawfully "Princess Sophie of Scotland" as the wife of a prince of Scotland - Scottish rules are different from that of the Uk, in Scotland the wife of a prince used her own name and that was not changed when Scotland became part of the Uk.

In 1917 the historian wrote, it was thought about reviving the Scottish prince/ss tiltles in order to reduce the Germanicness of the RF. The king chose the Windsor-name for the Royal House instead and created his relatives peers in the UK peerage.

It was discussed as well in the abdication crisis when the new king George VI. and Queen Elizabeth were afraid that the former king would claim the title and thus enable his wife Wallis to be HRH Princess Wallis of Scotland.

It was again discussed when Scotland got more independence with the Uk but the queen for whatever reasons does not like the idea. Maybe due to the abdication crisis.

Point is: on marrying William Catherine became by law HRH Princess Catherine of Scotland", even though the RF prefers to ignore these titles.
Maybe thats the reason why the Palace "accepts" that Catherine might be called "Princess Catherine" because lawfully she is that and not because she is a princess in her own right, but because she is married to a Prince of Scotland. One who will one day be "The Prince and Great Steward of Scotland".

PrincePatrick 05-02-2011 04:13 PM

Very interesting Kataryn! I'd never heard about the Prince of Scotland. It is strange indeed that the BRF would ignore these titles...

cdngirl 05-02-2011 10:15 PM

I actully like the Duchess of Cambridge better that Princess Catherine, simply because it rolls of the tongue better.

MRSJ 05-02-2011 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne
I will be interested in the new list of precedence which will be published soon, probably before the Trooping of the Colour.

Myself as well...for some reason I find the precedence fascinating and am slighty obssesed with making sure I understand it :)

Tiggersk8 05-03-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1247385)
I once read an article in a scientific publication for historians about the title of "Prince of Scotland". Most people don't know that the title of "The Prince and Great Steward of Scotland" is a title for the heir apparent which still includes certain rights within the Scottish law of today. Its very similar to the title "The Prince of Wales" and is the historical equivalent - the English had "Prince of Wales" for the heir, the Scottish had "Prince and Great Steward of Scotland".

But after 1603 the title ceased to be used in that very official form, it is now one of the titles of the heir apparent who, like the other heirs after 1603, prefers the title Duke of Rothesay when in Scotland. None the less, Charles is "The Prince of Scotland".

What was not longer used but still exists today according to the law that governed the creation of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" in 1701 is the title of Prince and Princess of Scotland for all male-line descendants of kings of the UK. That said, it means that Lord Frederick Windsor is in fact Lord Frederick Windsor, Prince of Scotland and his wife Sophie is not only Lady Frederick, but could call herself lawfully "Princess Sophie of Scotland" as the wife of a prince of Scotland - Scottish rules are different from that of the Uk, in Scotland the wife of a prince used her own name and that was not changed when Scotland became part of the Uk.

In 1917 the historian wrote, it was thought about reviving the Scottish prince/ss tiltles in order to reduce the Germanicness of the RF. The king chose the Windsor-name for the Royal House instead and created his relatives peers in the UK peerage.

It was discussed as well in the abdication crisis when the new king George VI. and Queen Elizabeth were afraid that the former king would claim the title and thus enable his wife Wallis to be HRH Princess Wallis of Scotland.

It was again discussed when Scotland got more independence with the Uk but the queen for whatever reasons does not like the idea. Maybe due to the abdication crisis.

Point is: on marrying William Catherine became by law HRH Princess Catherine of Scotland", even though the RF prefers to ignore these titles.
Maybe thats the reason why the Palace "accepts" that Catherine might be called "Princess Catherine" because lawfully she is that and not because she is a princess in her own right, but because she is married to a Prince of Scotland. One who will one day be "The Prince and Great Steward of Scotland".

Wow!! I never knew that before either. That's really interesting and nice to know that she really is Princess Catherine. Now I won't have to grind my teeth as much when I hear her called that now. ;)

BTW, may I have your permission to copy and paste that into a Word Doc for my own Royal Library/Cache of Information? Please and Thank you!?! :flowers:

Kataryn 05-04-2011 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 (Post 1247915)
Wow!! I never knew that before either. That's really interesting and nice to know that she really is Princess Catherine. Now I won't have to grind my teeth as much when I hear her called that now. ;)

BTW, may I have your permission to copy and paste that into a Word Doc for my own Royal Library/Cache of Information? Please and Thank you!?! :flowers:

Sure you can. :flowers:

Tiggersk8 05-04-2011 02:39 AM

Thanks!! :o)

Queen Penelope 05-04-2011 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie
This is the same comment that was made in 1981 - they said then that the public could call Diana Princess Diana.

However I will stick with the title that she was given - Duchess of Cambridge.

She is a princess by marriage of course but I prefer to use either the official title or a total nickname - Kate.

I agree, it was a different situation with Diana. She was the Princess of Wales, so it was not much of a stretch to call her Princess Diana. To call Catherine "Princess Catherine" seems too much of a stretch since she's officially known as the Duchess of Cambridge.

They come across as being relaxed and casual for such a formal title, but I grew up with him as Prince William, so I will end up calling them Prince William/Duchess of Cambridge when I don't refer to them as William and Kate. :)

ghost_night554 05-04-2011 03:27 AM

I'm curious do we still include the "wales" part or is that dropped all together?

Iluvbertie 05-04-2011 06:21 AM

As the 'of Wales' is used to distinguish the different noble families and William is now a noble in his own right I would drop the 'of Wales'.

It wouldn't make sense to refer to William as Prince William of Wales and then next year to refer to his eldest son as Prince Hagrid of Cambridge.

ghost_night554 05-05-2011 03:29 AM

Interesting...
Quote:

RoyalReporter Richard Palmer



Prince William has rejected the idea of changing his surname to Cambridge and will remain Flt Lt William Wales, St James's Palace says.

1 hour ago

Kataryn 05-05-2011 03:46 AM

:previous:

No wonder he wants to stick to Wales. After all the trouble they went into to avoid having William and Catherine's monogram as "WC", now he should be William Cambridge ("WC" again...)?

csw 05-05-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1248518)
:previous:

No wonder he wants to stick to Wales. After all the trouble they went into to avoid having William and Catherine's monogram as "WC", now he should be William Cambridge ("WC" again...)?

:lol: too funny

ghost_night554 05-05-2011 09:16 PM

Some more info about how they will use their new title
Quote:

RoyalReporter Richard Palmer



The consensus seems to be that, informally, they will be known as the Cambridges, not that I'm pretending any of this really matters.

16 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


RoyalReporter Richard Palmer



I'm told Kate will never use the Wales surname. If she is a guest at the officers' club, she will still be the Duchess of Cambridge.

What Newlyweds Prince William, Kate Call Each Other at Home - Celebrity News - UsMagazine.com

Opal 05-06-2011 10:12 PM

I will always refer to Kate as "Duchess of Cambridge" or "the Duchess". This is her official title and is what should be used.
Her name of Kate has already been changed to using Catherine which to be honest came across as a bit pretentious.
Duchess of Cambridge is a perfectly nice title and she should be happy just to get a title.

ghost_night554 05-07-2011 12:44 AM

I don't think she's unhappy nowhere did she state that she isn't grateful I think it's more what William wished she would have gotten more or less because I think he wanted his wife to be equal to him in terms of rank. Not that she isn't now she has the title duchess but rank of a princess but I get the feeling because he's grown up being called "Prince William" he's finding it hard to be called "The Duke of Cambridge" Well least IMO from what I've read and I can sorta see his point even I'm finding it hard to call him Duke of Cambridge.


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