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-   -   Relationships between members of the Norwegian royal family. (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f16/relationships-between-members-of-the-norwegian-royal-family-29715.html)

Dennism 02-10-2004 04:15 AM

Relationships between princess Ragnhild, Märtha-Louise and Haakon-Magnus
 
"It's been 50 years since Norway's Princess Ragnhild, eldest sister
of King Harald, moved to Brazil with her husband, businessman Erling
Lorentzen. Now she's speaking out in a TV documentary, offering
candid opinions about some members of the royal family, which her
husband didn't want broadcast.

Royal adviser Berit Tversland won't comment on Princess Ragnhild's
criticism.

Norway's national commercial TV station, TV2, was due to broadcast
the documentary Monday evening, as scheduled. TV2 officials,
however, spent the weekend "discussing" the program with both
Lorentzen and his lawyer, known media prosecutor Per Danielsen.

In the program, called "Princess in exile," the eldest daughter of
Norway's late King Olav says among other things that both her nephew
Crown Prince Haakon and niece Princess Martha Louisee must have
had "poor advisers" regarding their choice of spouses. Princess
Ragnhild earlier has criticized single mothers, an indirect stab at
Haakon's wife Crown Princess Mette-Marit, who was a single mother
when he met her.

On Monday, the palace official who's been the adviser for both
Haakon and Martha Louise, declined to comment on Princess Ragnhild's
criticism. Berit Tversland, who has functioned as part-nanny and
part-professional consultant since both royal children were born, is
known as having had probably the closest relationship to Haakon and
Martha Louise as anyone.

"I don't want to comment on Princess Ragnhild's statements,"
Tversland told newspaper Aftenposten. "I must refer you to the
palace's information department."

Palace spokeswoman Wenche Rasch, however, won't comment, either.

Princess Ragnhild claims to be concerned about the future of the
monarchy in Norway, and reportedly has worried that "royal
etiquette" isn't always followed by today's royals.

She also was reportedly hurt and felt overlooked when her brother
King Harald and his wife, Queen Sonja, made a state visit to Brazil
last fall. She wasn't included on the private jet that carried the
royals from Rio de Janeiro to Brasilia, and the king and queen
cancelled plans for lunch at the Lorentzen home in Rio just a few
hours before they were to arrive.

Erling Lorentzen, the princess' husband, said over the weekend that
his wife "stands by what she said." He claims to be mainly upset by
the timing of the TV2 program, saying it was meant to be broadcast
in connection with the state visit last fall and now can be taken
out of context.

TV2 offered to add an updated interview to the program, but
Lorentzen declined. He later said he wouldn't legally challenge
TV2's right to air the program.

One thing is clear: TV2 stands to boost its sagging ratings by
airing the program as planned."

Dennism 02-10-2004 05:59 PM

More articles on the whole controversary here.

https://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/ar...rticleID=727598

Sean.~ 02-10-2004 07:24 PM

So has anyone been following Prince Ragnhilld's scating comments on the RF in the documentary titled Princess in Exile? It's caused a quite a storm in Norway and her husband even tried not to have it aired. It was filmed around the time of the state visit to Brazil (when she was felt ditched by the King and Queen).

Here's a copy of an Aftenposten article that appeared today.

She hopes she dies before the day comes when Crown Princess Mette-Marit may become Norway's queen. She's less than impressed with her nephew, Crown Prince Haakon, and her niece, Princess Martha Louise. Princess Ragnhild thinks their new spouses threaten the future of the monarchy.


As the eldest daughter of Norway's late King Olav, Princess Ragnhild once held a central role in the country's monarchy. Ships have been named after her, she's been a fixture at most royal events and she endured a strict, tradition-bound life as a royal herself.

Now, at age 73, she's spoken out in a TV2 documentary peppered with harsh assessments of today's royals in Norway. She's lived in Brazil for the past 50 years, and clearly has been watching the royal family from afar with no small amount of dissatisfaction.

Asked whether she ponders the future of the monarchy, she said she does. "I'm not worried for myself, but for Norway, yes," she said. "I hope I die before that happens. I really hope so."

She made it clear she does not admire Crown Prince Haakon or his sister, Princess Martha Louise, and said she thinks they've had "poor advisers." She absolutely does not approve of their spousal choices, the former single mother from Kristiansand, Mette-Marit Tjessem Hoeiby, and Bohemian author Ari Behn.

Are they negative for the monarchy? "Yes, that I'm certain of," she said.

"If my father had lived a bit longer, everything would have been very different," she claimed.

King Olav wouldn't have allowed the marriages? "No, I don't think so," she said.

'Feels sorry' for Marius
Princess Ragnhild said she also feels "terribly sorry for that son she (now-Crown Princess Mette-Marit) has." Once the couple had a new child who's a royal heir, she claimed, "poor Marius is nothing. He is six (now seven) years old, but will understand that there's a difference. And that will give them (Haakon and Mette-Marit) problems. I hope they have thought about that."

Princess Ragnhild suggested that she was nearly forced to leave the country when she married a commoner herself in 1953. "I'm not really sure, but I think it was such that if we moved (to Brazil) we'd be allowed to marry," she said. Today she has three children and four grandchildren of her own.

She said it was difficult to move to a new country, where she didn't know anyone and couldn't understand the language. But she said it was a relief to be able to live as a normal person.

She maintained contact with her father through weekly letters, but she burned all those she received from King Olav a few years ago.

Both Princess Ragnhild and her husband have been in Norway recently, but Erling Lorentzen flew back to Brazil on Monday after trying to get TV2 to edit his wife's remarks. The princess, who reportedly remains in Norway for a while longer, said she stands by her comments in the TV2 documentary and stressed

https://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/ar...rticleID=727598

For more articles on the fall-out go to

https://www.aftenposten.no/english/



Sean

sheeba 02-10-2004 07:42 PM

I think all European Royalty by and large face the same issues -its an older generation criticising a younger generation. The next generation of European queens will all be commoners and for some thats a frightful thought. There's alot more freedom in your chouce of bride and for some that breeds in instability if bad judgements are made - e.g. Charles made a bad judgement and we all know now that there were doubts about the wedding and it should have been stopped. She does make interesting comments about advise - I raised the same issues in another thread (is mary beign used as a doormat) and the preparedness of the CPrincesses, but by and large before the Crown Princesses become Queens they'll each have around 30 years+ to prove their worth to the nations (a long time of serving, so if any are wearing masks they'll slip of in the end) they've either adopted or decided to serve (because Monarchy today is about serving the nation and not the other way round as it was in the Divine Right era) if they cock up along the way (divorce rates in England are 1 in 2 now I think, I don't know what they are in Europe) I guess they won't be queens. Simple as that.

Alexandria 02-10-2004 08:49 PM

I don't know a lot about Princess Ragnhild but from the above article Sean posted, she seems more bitter than interested in preserving the monarchy in Norway. Her comments seem heartless and lacking in affection for her niece and nephew, let alone their spouses.

norwegianne 02-11-2004 05:22 AM

I had planned on watching the programme, but opted for going to bed instead. I really dislike people who talk to other parties instead of straight out to each other. But that's personal.

I can sort of see her point, though: she's concerned with protecting the state of the Norwegian monarchy. It's still weak, and fragile.

She watched her parents, and grandparents build it up from scratch, she had weekly letters from her father about lots of stuff, she lived five years in the States and watched her parents be split because of Norway and their fight for it, and she doesn't know Mette-Marit and Ari.

She married a commoner herself, but he did have another background, as she pointed out. (How could marrying someone who had been part of the resistance during the war with Germany be a misstep for a princess in the 1950s? ;)) Even the queen is a commoner, but she's a commoner from the right side of the tracks. :innocent:

She's also old, and set in her ways.

The interview was supposed to be longer, with both she and her husband. It was also supposed to be sent earlier.

That being said: if you have any problems with your family, go tell them. Not tell the press.


I didn't care much for Mette-Marit & Ari at first either. Well, I still don't care much for Ari, but that's another matter. But I think, during these two years in the spotlight, that Mette-Marit has grown and adapted to her new role in a manner fit for a princess.

Sean.~ 02-11-2004 05:40 AM

I agree with some of your points and will write more tomorrow, as I'm off to bed. I will say, however, I've been following this for the last few days and it seems to be that she's rather bitter. I think she was put off by the fact that she basically had to move to Brazil in order to marry someone from 'the right side of the tracks', while her brother's kids have made, in her opinon, rather questionable marriages (I don't mean that in any pejorative sense). Also, the fact that she wasn't invited to join the King and Queen on their plane when they were flying to or from Rio to Brazilia (she brought that up) and the fact that the King and Queen cancelled lunch at her house at the last minute. All of this, coupled with her scathing comments and her burning of 1500-2000 letters last year leads me to believe that she's hurting about something.

Elaine 02-11-2004 07:20 AM

My first thoughts on reading the comments is that this is one bitter old woman. I know she comes from a different generation but please do not malign your family in public. It is simply not done. If reflects badly on you more than them. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY, SAY NOTHING AT ALL!!!! I hope that the rest of the family can show good grace and ignore these comments because for them to respond publicly will be just as bad.

I have noticed in pictures of the Norwegian royals in the other forums that Ragnhild doesn't smile very much unlike her beautiful sister and niece. Maybe that's what her problem is. She needs to smile and let go of all the hurt. It certainly is not going to be any good for her to go around with a sour disposition (maybe that is the real reason she was 'exiled' to Brazil :P )

Lady Jean 02-12-2004 10:21 AM

Maybe before she dies she can find some time to apoligize to her brother for doing this interview. He has just survived a health crisis and now has to listen to this!

She doesn't seem very grateful that she was allowed to marry her love. Imagine how (more) bitter she would be if it wasn't allowed.

I agree w/the other poster who said she can't possibly know her niece or nephew or their spouses all that well, since she has lived so far away.

As an archivist I am totally appalled that she burned the letters from her father.

I hope they don't feel obligated to invite her to Ingrid's christening.

Overall, I wonder what her point was in doing this interview. As has been previously said, to mend relations with her family (if she is interested) she should go to them, not tell us!

Jacqueline 02-12-2004 10:40 AM

I am very upset by her comments. It reminds of the very public comments made by Princess Margarita and her husband about her aunt, Queen Beatrix.

I believe that people should have their own opinions, but she really should not have said such things publicly about her family members, especially since they are all public individuals.

She does sound somewhat bitter, which I can understand. She had to move extremely far away to marry a man because he was a commoner and her niece and nephew have had many freedoms to choos their own spouses and remain in Norway with many liberties when making choices in their lives. I guess that I would be upset as well. However, she still should not have said such things in public. In my opinion, by revealing her true feelings she made it clear that she was somewhat bitter and that she is not only concerned for the future of the monarchy, but just very angry and has obviously been for years.

Alexandria 02-12-2004 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Jean@Feb 12th, 2004 - 9:21 am
Maybe before she dies she can find some time to apoligize to her brother for doing this interview. He has just survived a health crisis and now has to listen to this!

She doesn't seem very grateful that she was allowed to marry her love. Imagine how (more) bitter she would be if it wasn't allowed.

You make some very good points, Lady Jean.

What a headache for the King, huh?! Has the royal family issued a statement about the princess' comments in the interview? Or are they hoping that the whole situation will just go away and if they don't comment on it, it will go away quicker?

I think that perhaps the princess wanted to marry for love as well as live in the country she was born and retain some of the privileges and liberties she now sees her nephew and niece have, even though they, too, have married commoners. But she was very lucky to have been able to marry for love. Princess Margaret of Great Britain wasn't permitted by her own sister to marry her love (or her first love) and "ended up" marrying Lord Snowdon instead.

But I think times have changed a lot since the Princess was young and there were different expectations of the monarchy, then there are now with Haakon and Martha Louise and the choices they make in terms of spouses. Maybe if the Princess lived in today's time she would've been able to have it all: marry for love, live in Norway, retain some of her prestige and liberties of being a princess.

Elizajane 02-12-2004 01:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexandria+Feb 12th, 2004 - 10:52 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria @ Feb 12th, 2004 - 10:52 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lady Jean@Feb 12th, 2004 - 9:21 am
Maybe before she dies she can find some time to apoligize to her brother for doing this interview.&nbsp; He has just survived a health crisis and now has to listen to this!

She doesn't seem very grateful that she was allowed to marry her love.&nbsp; Imagine how (more) bitter she would be if it wasn't allowed.

You make some very good points, Lady Jean.

What a headache for the King, huh?! Has the royal family issued a statement about the princess' comments in the interview? Or are they hoping that the whole situation will just go away and if they don't comment on it, it will go away quicker?

I think that perhaps the princess wanted to marry for love as well as live in the country she was born and retain some of the privileges and liberties she now sees her nephew and niece have, even though they, too, have married commoners. But she was very lucky to have been able to marry for love. Princess Margaret of Great Britain wasn't permitted by her own sister to marry her love (or her first love) and "ended up" marrying Lord Snowdon instead.

But I think times have changed a lot since the Princess was young and there were different expectations of the monarchy, then there are now with Haakon and Martha Louise and the choices they make in terms of spouses. Maybe if the Princess lived in today's time she would've been able to have it all: marry for love, live in Norway, retain some of her prestige and liberties of being a princess.
I knew it! As soon as she got out her car to enter the church at MM and CPH's wedding, she gave a "bitter wave" to the press. She just raised her hand, while looking down at the ground. It was like she didn't even want to be there. I wondered at the time about the "rudeness" of THAT WAVE to the crowds outside the church. It was so out of character, I believed at the time. Gracious, if she disapproves her brother's two children and their spouses SO MUCH, make up a "medical excuse" and and STAY HOME in Brazil !!

What's her pleasure?? That MM and Haakon to live also in another country just because SHE wanted to marry a marry a commoner? ... and, she doesn't care a bit about Marius, I believe. To me, that's "all made up" to add to the "junk pile" she's building. I say, "Raggy, go back to Brazil !" You have no say in your brothers kingdom. :shock: " I hope her brother "knocks her head off". What insulting remarks to her brother and his wife plus their children and now grandchildren.

I'm sure MM and Haakon have seen this program, right? I sure hope that the strength of their characters will carry them through this invasion by a member of the "aunt heep" (Prince Charles used to say this.) Wonder what Sonja and Harald think about Raggy's interview? How hurtful some can be about something they have no control over.

Elizajane

H.M. Margrethe 02-12-2004 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Feb 10th, 2004 - 6:24 pm
So has anyone been following Prince Ragnhilld&#39;s scating comments on the RF in the documentary titled Princess in Exile? It&#39;s caused a quite a storm in Norway and her husband even tried not to have it aired. It was filmed around the time of the state visit to Brazil (when she was felt ditched by the King and Queen).

Here&#39;s a copy of an Aftenposten article that appeared today.

She hopes she dies before the day comes when Crown Princess Mette-Marit may become Norway&#39;s queen. She&#39;s less than impressed with her nephew, Crown Prince Haakon, and her niece, Princess Martha Louise. Princess Ragnhild thinks their new spouses threaten the future of the monarchy.


As the eldest daughter of Norway&#39;s late King Olav, Princess Ragnhild once held a central role in the country&#39;s monarchy. Ships have been named after her, she&#39;s been a fixture at most royal events and she endured a strict, tradition-bound life as a royal herself.

Now, at age 73, she&#39;s spoken out in a TV2 documentary peppered with harsh assessments of today&#39;s royals in Norway. She&#39;s lived in Brazil for the past 50 years, and clearly has been watching the royal family from afar with no small amount of dissatisfaction.

Asked whether she ponders the future of the monarchy, she said she does. "I&#39;m not worried for myself, but for Norway, yes," she said. "I hope I die before that happens. I really hope so."

She made it clear she does not admire Crown Prince Haakon or his sister, Princess Martha Louise, and said she thinks they&#39;ve had "poor advisers." She absolutely does not approve of their spousal choices, the former single mother from Kristiansand, Mette-Marit Tjessem Hoeiby, and Bohemian author Ari Behn.

Are they negative for the monarchy? "Yes, that I&#39;m certain of," she said.

"If my father had lived a bit longer, everything would have been very different," she claimed.

King Olav wouldn&#39;t have allowed the marriages? "No, I don&#39;t think so," she said.

&#39;Feels sorry&#39; for Marius
Princess Ragnhild said she also feels "terribly sorry for that son she (now-Crown Princess Mette-Marit) has." Once the couple had a new child who&#39;s a royal heir, she claimed, "poor Marius is nothing. He is six (now seven) years old, but will understand that there&#39;s a difference. And that will give them (Haakon and Mette-Marit) problems. I hope they have thought about that."

Princess Ragnhild suggested that she was nearly forced to leave the country when she married a commoner herself in 1953. "I&#39;m not really sure, but I think it was such that if we moved (to Brazil) we&#39;d be allowed to marry," she said. Today she has three children and four grandchildren of her own.

She said it was difficult to move to a new country, where she didn&#39;t know anyone and couldn&#39;t understand the language. But she said it was a relief to be able to live as a normal person.

She maintained contact with her father through weekly letters, but she burned all those she received from King Olav a few years ago.

Both Princess Ragnhild and her husband have been in Norway recently, but Erling Lorentzen flew back to Brazil on Monday after trying to get TV2 to edit his wife&#39;s remarks. The princess, who reportedly remains in Norway for a while longer, said she stands by her comments in the TV2 documentary and stressed

https://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/ar...rticleID=727598

For more articles on the fall-out go to

https://www.aftenposten.no/english/



Sean

Well i think that she is a bitter old lady who cant understand why we are now living in the new millenium.
I dont know if any one have tolde her but the year is now 2004 and if she cant accept her nephew and nieces choice of spouses well thats her choice well then she cant accepte HM Queen Sonja of Norway becaus she is only a commoner who had marryed her brother.
So my advise to Princess Ragnhilld is shut up if you dont have somthing nice to say about your family and pleas do not go to the press with it.

carlota 02-21-2004 08:46 PM

I think Ragnhild was in some term right with his declaration. Mette Marit can&#39;t be a good princess, mainly because she does NOT have that special and innate touch of elegance. Everything she does seems to be very pretentious. However, it&#39;s normal she feels sorry for Marius, as he&#39;ll grow up in a place that doesn&#39;t belong to him.

Alexandria 02-21-2004 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Feb 21st, 2004 - 7:46 pm
I think Ragnhild was in some term right with his declaration. Mette Marit can&#39;t be a good princess, mainly because she does NOT have that special and innate touch of elegance. Everything she does seems to be very pretentious.
I actually think the exact opposite of this, that if Mette-Marit is anything it is that she is "too down to earth" and not nearly as glamorous as say some other princesses, like Maxima or Caroline. I think she is very unpretentious.

When you compare her to other princesses, she wears a minimal amount of make up, is more casual than the others on her royal duties, and is the pretty unfussy with her hair, clothes, jewellery, accessories, etc.

carlota 02-21-2004 09:02 PM

Well... when I said pretentious I wanted to say pretentious in the way she behaves. I really prefere a queen like Maxima, with his pretentious forms if you want to say it that way, than Mette Marit, that seems a doll in the hands of designers and more designers that want to show a natural girl. At least Maxima has a personal opinion which is absolutely chic and elegant.

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 12:13 AM

I don&#39;t think that Mette-Marit lacks personal style. Her personal style is very down to earth. She wears fairly tailored clothing, and nothing very extravagant looking. Of course just because something doesn&#39;t appear to be extravagant doesn&#39;t mean that it isn&#39;t. Sometimes, simple and elegant costs more than detail. However, she is really very natural in her appearance and I think that is what she is known for currently. She wears little to no make up, but I don&#39;t think that she really needs it with her skin. She doesn&#39;t have over the top hair styles either. There is nothing pretentious about her. If she were pretentious it would instantly be reflected in her personality. People who are pretentious are usually prone to imposingly ostentatious displays in order to make themselves feel superior to others, and that doesn&#39;t sound like MM, IMO. I can&#39;t recall ever hearing about her going around and imposing herself upon others. :unsure: :unsure:

So, Maxima is chic, and elegant and wears things that are more colorful and expensive looking...so what? Maxima is a different woman, with a different background who was raised in a completely different country on another continent from MM. Her personality is different, so her clothing reflects it. It doesn&#39;t mean that MM lacks elegance. Elegance is not based on whether or not your clothing is more expensive looking or if you have stylists come in and do your hair for each major event or like some royal women everyday.

Elegance is about the way in which you move, how you relate to people and how you make them feel when they are around you, it&#39;s about restraint and grace of style, not about who is done up better.

And, I don&#39;t think that Maxima is pretentious either. I think that her style is reflective of her personality and the way in which she carries herself. I don&#39;t find her to be ostentatious or tasteless.

Alexandria 02-22-2004 02:02 AM

Very well put, Jacqueline.

I think both these women are elegant in their own, opposite ways, and that neither woman is pretentious.

Maxima certainly possesses an exuberance of spirit that Mette-Marit does not, while Mette-Marit projects an aura of down to earth naturalness that is not as evident in Maxima.

norwegianne 02-22-2004 06:09 AM

Well, since King Harald stated in an interview with VG today (translated for you guys by me, and put in King Harald and Queen Sonja forum) that he hoped they still were friends, and they had talked several times since... she even bought him a birthday present...


I can&#39;t imagine very sour feelings on either side. As King Harald says most families have troubles from time to time... the difference here is that the press is standing around waiting to pick up on those problems.

Of course she should have shut up, but most people become more outspoken when they grow old. Telling people those things they never got to say when they were younger.

Of course both Princess Ragnhild and Princess Astrid talked in their biographies on how important it was for King Haakon that neither of them did anything that would out them in the press, like Princess Margaret of Great Britain did.

carlota 02-22-2004 06:35 AM

I didn&#39;t said MM didn&#39;t dress well. I really like the way she dresses but I think (sincerely and not trying to offend, just a comment) that that kind of clothes are not suitable for her.
And now I have found an example of this pretentiousness I said yesterday :P : do you remember when MM went to a visit to London (or the Queen went to Norway, I don&#39;t remember)? She tried to act in a very &#39;pretentious&#39; way, receiving Queen Elizabeth in a way nobody would. It seemed that she had learnt a book on protocol by heart and just did it. Elegance is not like that. If you are a good princess, you should know how to do things and how to addapt you to new situations. I don&#39;t know too much about high protocol, but I think it was totally out what she did. Also the British royals were surprised because of that &#39;strange&#39; receiving...
I remember this and I compare with Letizia, the first time she appeared in public, the day of the Carta Magna. She was so polite and smart... she behaved very very good and nobody said nothing about her manners. And it was only a month after she started taking classes... Maxima also behaved in a very smart way when she appeared in public the first time with the dutch royals...

PD: Are here many MM fans? Maybe I should stop being so hard with my opinions.. :blush:

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 10:16 AM

Thank you Alexandria. :)

Quote:

I can&#39;t imagine very sour feelings on either side. As King Harald says most families have troubles from time to time... the difference here is that the press is standing around waiting to pick up on those problems.
That is certainly a wonderful way for him to take it. He seems like a very classy gentleman. However, I still have to say that Her Royal Highness really didn&#39;t need to help the press out in this case. But, it seems to be over and all involved are moving on and that&#39;s what&#39;s best.

Quote:

PD: Are here many MM fans? Maybe I should stop being so hard with my opinions..
Carlota, I&#39;m not particularly a MM fan. I am not opposed to her either. I have my favorites and she is not someone who I follow in particular regularly. However, when I do see any news about her, I do like to read it because there are certain things about her that interest me.

I really don&#39;t care about how hard your opinions are of MM. You can say whatever you like, it&#39;s your opinion. I disagree with you completely, and will continue do so because I don&#39;t find your statements to be objective and I do find them to be contradictory.

As for the incident you referred to about Queen Elizabeth, I have never heard about it (so I have doubts) nonetheless I really don&#39;t care. I still don&#39;t find the young woman to be pretentious. I feel that you simply don&#39;t like MM for whatever reason(s) and you find that anyone or everyone is better than she, even a woman who you yourself find to be a bit pretentious, yet elegant. Pretentious elegance, now there&#39;s an oxymoron. I don&#39;t quite understand that as any sort of pretense is never really a positive thing, IMO.

To each his own.

Elizajane 02-22-2004 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 6:35 am
" .. Do you remember when MM went to a visit to London (or the Queen went to Norway, I don&#39;t remember)? She tried to act in a very &#39;pretentious&#39; way, receiving Queen Elizabeth in a way nobody would. It seemed that she had learnt a book on protocol by heart and just did it. Elegance is not like that. If you are a good princess, you should know how to do things and how to addapt you to new situations .. ".

PD: Are here many MM fans? Maybe I should stop being so hard with my opinions..

You&#39;re right. Maybe you should. I&#39;m sure MM has lots of "followers" on this board, and I am one of those followers, make no mistake. What are you talking about when you refer to MM bowing to Queen Elizabeth in a pretentious manner? Will you please describe the incident where she lacked elegance?

Since the first time MM "came on board" with the Norway royals, she has looked to her husband and his family for guidance, probably in each step she has taken. The same is true with Maxima and some others. CP Mette-Marit is NOT a "BAD PRINCESS".

YOU offered your opinion of " .. being too hard .. " (paraphrasing) about your opinions of MM. Since you brought this up FIRST, you&#39;ve given me the right to address your comments. I have many but this is the most important ~ Tread lightly, my dear.

Elizajane

Alexandria 02-22-2004 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 5:35 am
do you remember when MM went to a visit to London (or the Queen went to Norway, I don&#39;t remember)? She tried to act in a very &#39;pretentious&#39; way, receiving Queen Elizabeth in a way nobody would. It seemed that she had learnt a book on protocol by heart and just did it. Elegance is not like that. If you are a good princess, you should know how to do things and how to addapt you to new situations. I don&#39;t know too much about high protocol, but I think it was totally out what she did. Also the British royals were surprised because of that &#39;strange&#39; receiving...
I have followed Mette-Marit from the very beginning of her relationship with Haakon, when she was referred to as the Crown Prince&#39;s single-mother, drug-taking, party girl girlfriend. And I do not remember the mistake in protocol or unsurping of protocol that took place when Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip made a state visit to Norway in May 2001 -- the only state visit by the Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip since Mette-Marit has been part of the Norwegian royal family.

In fact the opposite was said about Mette-Marit&#39;s "behaviour" -- that when she greeted the Queen her curtsy was so low (as the lower you can go the more respect it shows or impressive it is) that other princesses were to take note. This was not only commented in Norwegian publications, but also British publications, both of whom had been hard on Mette-Marit&#39;s entrance into the royal family.

I could not find a picture of the curtsy, but here is the occasion I am referring to:

Queen Elizabeth II greets Mette-Marit, 31 May 2001 in Oslo, Norway

Also, if you are going to say that Letizia acted perfectly as a future Crown Princess, you might want to read some articles about the day of the official engagement announcement in which she interrupted Felipe and told him -- before his and her family and the press -- to let her finish. I am not attacking Letizia about this incident, but it has been a sore spot about her mentioned in the press on many occasions, and since someone here is saying that she acted perfectly, I think that incident needed to be pointed out.

norwegianne 02-22-2004 01:59 PM

https://www.lestribunesroyales.com/forums/i...p?showtopic=526 Josefine posted a picture of the curtsying...

carlota 02-22-2004 04:36 PM

OK. Maybe I should have given up this kind of comments if I knew you were going to take them so passionally. It is true that I did think that MM wasn&#39;t the right option to the norwegian trone, but that&#39;s not a thing to say that I&#39;m not objective. In fact, if we start saying that I am not, you aren&#39;t either, as you like her very much.
Alexandria, that was the day I refered to. You said that other princesses wouldn&#39;t have done that and they "had to take note". If they don&#39;t do it (and they have been living in a palace all their lives), why should MM do it? Is she an eminence in protocol? (That was what I said about &#39;being pretentious&#39;... it seems that she had read all the book and she is just trying to imitate, but without any naturality).
Talking about Letizia, I had read that about the engagement announce. The only difference was that Letizia&#39;s engagement with Felipe was two days after this public appearence. I don&#39;t know if MM had time to learn about protocol before his engagement anounce, but it is true that Letizia didn&#39;t have time. That was why I said the first public appearance, but I didn&#39;t take into account that previous appearence. It&#39;s normal that that happened, and if it had happened with MM I would do the same thing. In fact, I didn&#39;t talk about her engagement announce because I hadn&#39;t seen it and I have no objective evidence on it.

Alexandria 02-22-2004 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 3:36 pm
OK. Maybe I should have given up this kind of comments if I knew you were going to take them so passionally. It is true that I did think that MM wasn&#39;t the right option to the norwegian trone, but that&#39;s not a thing to say that I&#39;m not objective. In fact, if we start saying that I am not, you aren&#39;t either, as you like her very much.
Alexandria, that was the day I refered to. You said that other princesses wouldn&#39;t have done that and they "had to take note". If they don&#39;t do it (and they have been living in a palace all their lives), why should MM do it? Is she an eminence in protocol? (That was what I said about &#39;being pretentious&#39;... it seems that she had read all the book and she is just trying to imitate, but without any naturality).
Talking about Letizia, I had read that about the engagement announce. The only difference was that Letizia&#39;s engagement with Felipe was two days after this public appearence. I don&#39;t know if MM had time to learn about protocol before his engagement , but I didn&#39;t take into account that previous aanounce, but it is true that Letizia didn&#39;t have time. That was why I said the first public appearanceppearence. It&#39;s normal that that happened, and if it had happened with MM I would do the same thing. In fact, I didn&#39;t talk about her engagement announce because I hadn&#39;t seen it and I have no objective evidence on it.

I never claimed to be impartial about Mette-Marit. I do like her very much, and I fully admit to that.

And what I meant by the various Norwegian and British publications saying that "other princesses should take note" of Mette-Marit&#39;s curtsy to Queen Elizabeth II was not that no other princesses would have done it or been required to, but the way in which it was carried off by Mette-Marit. In these same articles, it was also noted that even women who are born into royal families do not curtsy as well (or as low) as Mette-Marit did on this occasion -- based on that belief that women who are born into royal families have been doing it much longer than Mette-Marit has.

And I don&#39;t think anybody is getting personal here, but if someone has brought up something and others disagree with it, as I do here, then I don&#39;t see a problem with it being commented on. Carlota, you do not like Mette-Marit while I do, and that is perfectly fine and we disagree and that is fine, too. Many of us have differing opinions here about all sorts of things and nobody takes it personally.

To quote Jacqueline, To each his own.

Fireweaver 02-22-2004 06:23 PM

I must say I was impressed with how Mette-Marit has attempted to blend the lessons she&#39;s needed to fulfil the role of Crown Princess with her own sensibilities. She, as well as every person marrying into a royal family, need to know the rules of that household. I think even a princess marrying into another family needs to learn the differences in rules that exist. Look at Queen Alexandra of Great Britian. She was a member of a royal family, but it acted extremely different then the family she married into. IMO, it&#39;s good that the future CPs/brides/grooms whomever learn the lessons.
And a good curtsy is a valuable thing to have, no matter who you are.

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fireweaver@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 10:23 pm
I must say I was impressed with how Mette-Marit has attempted to blend the lessons she&#39;s needed to fulfil the role of Crown Princess with her own sensibilities. She, as well as every person marrying into a royal family, need to know the rules of that household. I think even a princess marrying into another family needs to learn the differences in rules that exist. Look at Queen Alexandra of Great Britian. She was a member of a royal family, but it acted extremely different then the family she married into. IMO, it&#39;s good that the future CPs/brides/grooms whomever learn the lessons.
And a good curtsy is a valuable thing to have, no matter who you are.

I couldn&#39;t agree more Fireweaver. MM has done a wonderful job of adjusting. She lost her temper a few times with reporters, but I wasn&#39;t very surprised by that. I was impressed at how she overcame her fear of flying. That couldn&#39;t have been easy.

If she is reading any books about protocol, more power to her. It is refreshing to know that she is at least taking her role and future role seriously and not depending on others to walk her through everything every step of the way.

Fireweaver 02-22-2004 06:30 PM

Considering how rudely they have treated her, I&#39;d lose my temper with them as well. And considering she hasn&#39;t been a Crown Princess for very long, she&#39;s rather active in her royal duties. The fear of flying was an important thing to overcome. I don&#39;t think she would be as effective if she didn&#39;t overcome that due to the travel that a CPly couple must do (Not to mention as a King and Queen must do&#33;).

Alexandria 02-22-2004 06:35 PM

I think, too, that when you get into anything new there is a big learning curve. In Mette-Marit&#39;s case, as is the case now with Mary and Letizia, and all the princesses before them, their learning curve is endured publicly and recorded for all to see.

And I can&#39;t say that in Mette-Marit&#39;s position I wouldn&#39;t lose my temper, either. I remember the incident when photographers tried to take Marius&#39; picture while he was playing in the park with friends -- the poor little boy&#33; And as for the tantrum aboard the plane, having the fear of flying as she did your nerves would probably be shot to h*** anyway, but throw in some prying photographers and journalists and I&#39;d throw a big hissy fit, too&#33;

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexandria@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 10:35 pm
I think, too, that when you get into anything new there is a big learning curve. In Mette-Marit&#39;s case, as is the case now with Mary and Letizia, and all the princesses before them, their learning curve is endured publicly and recorded for all to see.

And I can&#39;t say that in Mette-Marit&#39;s position I wouldn&#39;t lose my temper, either. I remember the incident when photographers tried to take Marius&#39; picture while he was playing in the park with friends -- the poor little boy&#33; And as for the tantrum aboard the plane, having the fear of flying as she did your nerves would probably be shot to h*** anyway, but throw in some prying photographers and journalists and I&#39;d throw a big hissy fit, too&#33;

I agree Alexandria. Every single thing about them is constantly under a microscope.

I have to admit that MM may have behaved better than I would have as well. I really don&#39;t care for reporters or anyone who intrudes upon children and makes them feel uncomfortable. It&#39;s understandable that Marius will receive media attention because his mother is now CP of Norway, but he is an innocent and should be left alone as much as possible.

Gabriella 02-22-2004 06:55 PM

I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess&#39; to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. I really felt sorry for her in her first few months of marriage. She went through what, for me, would be some pretty embarrassing incidents. She got that horrible sunburn, got caught losing her temper, and hurt her leg/knee (something to that effect, I don&#39;t really remember exactly what happened). To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.

Alexandria 02-22-2004 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriella@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 5:55 pm
I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess&#39; to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. ... To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.
Very nicely said, Gabriella. And you hit on (for me) a very important point, that unlike some of the other princesses and crown princesses, Mette-Marit was not exactly successful in her own right before marrying Haakon. Unlike Letizia, Maxima and Alexandra (Manley) who had university degrees and successful careers before meeting their respective princes, Mette-Marit had for the most part fluttered about with various jobs and a university program that she never completed.

And she did face a lot of harsh personal criticism for her past, such as the out of wedlock child, the partying, the drugs, the lack of education, etc. (Maxima faced some of this critcism, too, though it was not lobbied at her directly but because of her father&#39;s affiliations.)

And to be able to rise above all that harsh criticism with all these people watching your every move and wanting you to fail, would feel like being defeated before the race had even begun.

It does take a lot of personal courage and shows a tremendous sense of character to be able to rise about all that and go about your daily job -- while at the same time taking care of your young son. I, too, have always liked that Mette-Marit seems very active in Marius&#39; life from taking him to school on his first day or playing soccer in the park with him -- I am looking forward to seeing similar pictures of Mette-Marit with Ingrid Alexandra.

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 07:28 PM

Gabriella, I agree with you completely. That is exactly what MM has-character. It would have been so easy for her to give up with everything that went on around her and all of the doubts surrounding her ability. This is one of the reasons why I am very disappointed with Princess Ragnhild&#39;s statements, because she has been away from Norway for so long that it really doesn&#39;t seem that she could possibly know her niece or nephew that well let along their spouses. Granted both chose unconventional spouses, they do seem to be very much in love at this point.

I think that Princess Ragnhild is wrong about MM and the things that Gabriella have mentioned prove that. MM has taken everything said about her with a grain of salt and perservered. I have to admire that. She has a wonderfully quiet tenacity about her that is inspiring. She had everything against, and she is still there despite what anyone tries to do to make her lose face. Strenght of character will win every time.

Gabriella 02-22-2004 08:01 PM

In my opinion, the worst part of Princess Ragnhilld&#39;s comments is her lack family loyalty. I believe that no matter how you may feel personally about something, you should NEVER publicize it. What a huge slap in the face&#33; She is more than welcome to her opinion, and I&#39;m sure that she is not the only royal in history to disapprove of another family member, but that is something that should never be discussed in public. Back to the issue of class, she has certainly shown her lack of it. If her statment&#39;s were meant to make people feel sympathetic towards her, I think she miserably failed. No matter how I might feel privately about certain family matters, there are just somethings that I would not discuss outside of it, even to my closest friends. Especially if I were in a position to have it heard by the general public.

Jacqueline 02-22-2004 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriella@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 12:01 am
In my opinion, the worst part of Princess Ragnhilld&#39;s comments is her lack family loyalty. I believe that no matter how you may feel personally about something, you should NEVER publicize it. What a huge slap in the face&#33; She is more than welcome to her opinion, and I&#39;m sure that she is not the only royal in history to disapprove of another family member, but that is something that should never be discussed in public. Back to the issue of class, she has certainly shown her lack of it. If her statment&#39;s were meant to make people feel sympathetic towards her, I think she miserably failed. No matter how I might feel privately about certain family matters, there are just somethings that I would not discuss outside of it, even to my closest friends. Especially if I were in a position to have it heard by the general public.
Absolutely.

Family issues should remain within the family.

It is difficult enough being a public person having the the media constantly scrutinize you...then to have a family member aid them on is just far too much. Family members especially needn&#39;t give the media ammunition with which to work.

I understand her sentiment, and her bitterness as well, however, she would have been better off stating it to the individuals with whom she takes issue directly or writing them a letter if need be.

I certainly didn&#39;t feel sympathy for her. She may be a very mature woman and feels the need to say what she likes because theoretically no one can hurt her and she may also not care about what people think of her, but I was personally embarassed for her, moreso than for her brother, sister-in-law, and niece and nephew.

norwegianne 02-23-2004 03:23 AM

Family isssues should stay within the family, there is no sense in dragging the dirty laundry out for everybody to see. Especially when the dirt is nothing but an elderly lady&#39;s opinions. (Opinions that a lot of elderly, and not so elderly people in Norway share, but still...)

mgrant 02-23-2004 05:05 PM

Ladies,

Please allow me to make a comment about Princess Ragnhilld.

From what I read I saw a woman who might have some hard feelings about something from the past and like Sean put it, she&#39;s probably hurting about something that has nothing to with MM or her husband.

The things she said are hurtful and I commend her husband for trying to soften the blows. She&#39;s from a whole different era and things have changed since them. She apparently has not adapted to it very well.

Princess Ragnhilld hasn&#39;t murdered anyone, exposed horrible family secrets, or underminded the royal family to cause the entire monarchy to fall. The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what&#39;s going with her. That&#39;s what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it&#39;s time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?

norwegianne 02-23-2004 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mgrant@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 4:05 pm
The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what&#39;s going with her. That&#39;s what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it&#39;s time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?
King Harald stated that he had talked to her recently, and she had given him a birthday present.

I also think a valid point to make is that the interview was taped at an unfortunate time, around the Brazil visit, which would also cause some bitterness. That the intent with the interview was intended to show more about their situation living in Brazil than her relationship with her brother&#39;s children&#39;s spouses... also is a factor.

Jacqueline 02-23-2004 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mgrant@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 9:05 pm


Princess Ragnhilld hasn&#39;t murdered anyone, exposed horrible family secrets, or underminded the royal family to cause the entire monarchy to fall. The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what&#39;s going with her. That&#39;s what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it&#39;s time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?

Actually, I believe that her King Harald did speak to her about it at least that was his response when asked about it. It was posted earlier in this thread. He is a class act and took it with the proverbial grain of salt. He simply said that all families have their problem, unfortunately sometimes theirs simply play out in the press (or something to that effect). Nonetheless, he seems to be over it. I am sure that isn&#39;t the firs time that his sister has been hard on his family. She most likely has been saying things for years. She is bitter, so I would believe that she had been making comments in public for quite some time.

I agree that she is of a different time, however, so is her brother and he made the necessary adjustments to his children&#39;s choices of spouses. It is simply just another case of the older generation criticizing the younger as usual.

No, she may not have said anything to cause the monarchy to fall, but regardless of her age, it was in extremely bad taste for her to do so. I would think better of a woman of her generation and upbringing. No one has to meet her halfway. If she wants to be respected and have her opinion valued, then she should probably not air family business in public. It is asking a lot of anyone to accept you and embrace you and your beliefs when you publicly berate them. It would be nice if people could be that accomodating, but really it is unrealistic.

She also chose to do it right after her nephew and the family were celebrating the birth of his first child along with the people of Norway. It was very crude of her to do that at a time like this. Age and upbringing can only be blamed for so much. She is old enough to know what self control is and what to say to the media. Yes, I see her being embraced and a regular at family gatherings quite soon. :rolleyes:

No one owes her an apology for choosing to live their lives and loving whomever they choose. You may be able to choose who you marry, but you love who you love. The heart is a strange thing and apparently Haakon and ML chose to love Ari and MM. Then they chose to marry them and here we are...

Wisnu 03-28-2004 11:05 PM

I don&#39;t have any sympathy to MM, what princess Ragnild comment was right. MM have no word to argue, just keep the mouth close and time goes by.

Jacqueline 03-28-2004 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wisnu@Mar 29th, 2004 - 3:05 am
I don&#39;t have any sympathy to MM, what princess Ragnild comment was right. MM have no word to argue, just keep the mouth close and time goes by.
Uh..., old topic and I doubt that she would argue. No matter what her aunt-in-law says or anyone for that matter doesn&#39;t cause her to stop being the CP of Norway. If she&#39;s smart she brushes it off, which I am sure that she most likely does and lives her life. She should let her actions be her reply.

After all, she is the Crown Princess of Norway and I have a feeling that she will most likely be for a long time.

Angel S. 04-06-2004 01:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexandria+Feb 22nd, 2004 - 6:14 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria @ Feb 22nd, 2004 - 6:14 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Gabriella@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 5:55 pm
I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess' to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. ... To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.
Very nicely said, Gabriella. And you hit on (for me) a very important point, that unlike some of the other princesses and crown princesses, Mette-Marit was not exactly successful in her own right before marrying Haakon. Unlike Letizia, Maxima and Alexandra (Manley) who had university degrees and successful careers before meeting their respective princes, Mette-Marit had for the most part fluttered about with various jobs and a university program that she never completed.

And she did face a lot of harsh personal criticism for her past, such as the out of wedlock child, the partying, the drugs, the lack of education, etc. (Maxima faced some of this critcism, too, though it was not lobbied at her directly but because of her father's affiliations.And to be able to rise above all that harsh criticism with all these people watching your every move and wanting you to fail, would feel like being defeated before the race had even begun.)
It does take a lot of personal courage and shows a tremendous sense of character to be able to rise about all that and go about your daily job -- while at the same time taking care of your young son. I, too, have always liked that Mette-Marit seems very active in Marius' life from taking him to school on his first day or playing soccer in the park with him -- I am looking forward to seeing similar pictures of Mette-Marit with Ingrid Alexandra. [/quote] And lets not forget that the other ladies came form well to do families who could help them out with education etc. It's hard for a single mother to continue an education, work & raise a child with no help. I think that just makes her a stronger more independent person.

It's easy to have a great education & career when you have money & connections. That's not to say the other ladies did not work hard, I'm sure they did but nothing compares to being a single mother & having to put food on the table. :flower:

Jacqueline 04-06-2004 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Angel S.@Apr 6th, 2004 - 4:41 pm


It&#39;s easy to have a great education & career when you have money & connections. That&#39;s not to say the other ladies did not work hard, I&#39;m sure they did but nothing compares to being a single mother & having to put food on the table. :flower:

Very true, Angel S. Knowing a few single mothers myself, I can say that they all have stories tell, and hardly any are pleasant when it comes to describing their daily routines and worries.

royal_sophietje 04-06-2004 03:56 PM

Is there still much media attention to Raghnild&#39;s comments???

norwegianne 04-06-2004 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by royal_sophietje@Apr 6th, 2004 - 1:56 pm
Is there still much media attention to Raghnild&#39;s comments???
Virtually nothing. Of course, since the royal family&#39;s out of the country, there&#39;s not much royal news at all this week. But there hasn&#39;t been much at all in March, nor in April.

It was over as soon as the media got something else (*cough*Sven Høiby*cough*) to think about.

carlota 04-06-2004 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norwegianne+Apr 6th, 2004 - 2:34 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (norwegianne @ Apr 6th, 2004 - 2:34 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-royal_sophietje@Apr 6th, 2004 - 1:56 pm
Is there still much media attention to Raghnild&#39;s comments???
It was over as soon as the media got something else (*cough*Sven Høiby*cough*) to think about. [/b][/quote]
were there any comments about him or about his attendance to ingrid&#39;s christening?

agnessa 06-29-2007 03:12 PM

Relationships between princess Ragnhild, Märtha-Louise and Haakon-Magnus
 
Hello! I've read from Wikipedia (Princess Ragnhild of Norwey) that Ragnhild critizied Märtha-Louise and Haakon Magnus for the cummoner spouses and she hoped that she die before Mette-Marit become queen...:ohmy: (It was said in TV2 in 2004). But she is also married with commoner and I can't understand why she is so cruel? Does anyone have the opinion about that or any kind of information?

Mandy 06-29-2007 05:11 PM

Hello everyone,

Several posts from a previous discussion on this subject have been moved from Princess Ragnhild current events thread.

Although the previous discussion may have veered in various directions, let's try to keep this discussion on track.

Please be respectful towards Princess Ragnhild even if you don't like her.



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norwegianne 06-29-2007 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agnessa (Post 633463)
Hello! I've read from Wikipedia (Princess Ragnhild of Norwey) that Ragnhild critizied Märtha-Louise and Haakon Magnus for the cummoner spouses and she hoped that she die before Mette-Marit become queen...:ohmy: (It was said in TV2 in 2004). But she is also married with commoner and I can't understand why she is so cruel? Does anyone have the opinion about that or any kind of information?

As I've said in earlier posts - it's not the fact that they are commoners, but rather the reputations they had when they married into the family, that seems to have made Princess Ragnhild bitter at the time. For someone whose grandfather (King Haakon) was concerned when his granddaughters went to parties - because it might give the impression that they were party princesses like Margaret of Great Britain - having two people who definitely were "party people" in the royal family must have hurt because of the memories connected to this. Also, an unwed mother might not be shocking to a young generation, but to the grandparents generation… it is viewed differently.

I say that it isn't the commoner aspect, because all three of King Olav's children married commoners, and Ragnhild has never seemed to have a problem with her sister-in-law or brother-in-law. Furthermore, her children have also married commoners, and she doesn't seem to have a problem with them either.

I'm inclined to say it is a difference in what generations view as acceptable/laudable behaviour. (And still, two years after the affair, I still think she might be right about Ari, but then again he seem to make Märtha Louise happy...)

The problem with the whole thing is that this is something that should never have been said in the press, imo.

Empress 06-29-2007 07:32 PM

All I can say is this - You can't help who you love. Princess Ragnhild, who also married a commoner, should not judge. I am sure that her husbands closet was not entirely free of skeletons, however small. Although I agree with Norwegianne, I don't think that it is about commoners or not, but that might very well exacerbate the situation. For that matter, I don't think anyone has the right to pass judgement on who other people love.

And yet again, airing dirty laundry in public. I fail to understand why people feel the need to do this.

Alison20 06-29-2007 09:52 PM

It is hard, when you have suffered from strict rules, to find that the next generation is allowed so much more freedom. (I remember being very upset with my parents when my four years younger sister was allowed to do things at 12 that I was only just being allowed to do at 16 - it still rankles all these years later). But I do think it was unwise of Princess Ragnhild to let her hurt at what she must have felt as a snub by the Norwegian RF on their Brazil trip take the form of publicly attacking Haakon and Martha-Louise.

agnessa 06-30-2007 12:37 PM

Thanks for all articles and thoughts about that theme, it's very interesting to read it. I think that nobody shouldn't say such things in public because this behave doesn't make nothing good. And when this generation of monarchy is having more freedom it's interesting to know what the next generation will be :smile: - the world and monarchy is changing and it's natural.

sm1939 07-09-2007 10:24 AM

I dont think she has any room to talk, didnt her husband have an affair , and a child out of wedlock ??? so how can she have a go at MM for being a single mother !!! for goodness sake , as they say " people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones" we arent living in the dark ages now. thank goodness times have changed and everyone has to change with it ,weather we want to or not !

norwegianne 07-09-2007 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm1939 (Post 638436)
I dont think she has any room to talk, didnt her husband have an affair , and a child out of wedlock ??? so how can she have a go at MM for being a single mother !!! for goodness sake , as they say " people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones" we arent living in the dark ages now. thank goodness times have changed and everyone has to change with it ,weather we want to or not !

DNA tests proved that the child was not Erling Lorentzen's, if I recall correctly.

sm1939 07-10-2007 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 638709)
DNA tests proved that the child was not Erling Lorentzen's, if I recall correctly.

Im sure it proved that it was , thats why she stayed away at the kings birthday . ( i could be wrong ) but the point is he allegedly did have an affair , and did the king go to the press saying anything about her husband extra marital affair ...no! so I think she should just get on with her life and keep quite because no one is perfect .

bbb 07-10-2007 12:39 PM

after reading her comments it strikes me even being born royal doesn't give you class or decorum. she tried to demean her family, but demeaned herself. she does sound bitter and hateful about people she doesn't even know (if she's met them at all) picking on marius really makes me mad, he's a cool, very respectful and much loved child (imo by everyone in the royal family) who didn't need to be thrown under the bus (texas expression) to make her spiteful points.
in the class sweepstakes: commoner-1000 princess ragnhild- 0

norwegianne 07-10-2007 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm1939 (Post 638890)
Im sure it proved that it was , thats why she stayed away at the kings birthday . ( i could be wrong ) but the point is he allegedly did have an affair , and did the king go to the press saying anything about her husband extra ...no! so I think she should just get on with her life and keep quite because no one is perfect .

It was proven that he wasn't the father - https://www.kjendis.no/2007/05/16/500787.html But during the King's birthday, there still was a trial going on, and the case was around in the media. I suppose it was easier for both Harald and Princess Ragnhild if they stayed away.

Given that she can't control what her husband does - or did 20 years ago - it seems rather pointless to blame her for this.

I can very well understand her critique - imho, the problem is that she talked to the media about it.

sm1939 07-11-2007 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 639002)
It was proven that he wasn't the father - Erling er ikke faren - kjendis.no But during the King's birthday, there still was a trial going on, and the case was around in the media. I suppose it was easier for both Harald and Princess Ragnhild if they stayed away.

Given that she can't control what her husband does - or did 20 years ago - it seems rather pointless to blame her for this.

I can very well understand her critique - imho, the problem is that she talked to the media about it.

I stand corrected wasnt to sure, .... yes you are right we cant blame her for what her husband does, but on the other hand then , she cant say things about the partners of her newphews and niece. ...... or as you said she can if she doesnt talk to the media !

victoria200122003 08-03-2010 11:52 AM

Relationship between Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Queen Sonja
 
What do you think that. I have heard that the queen dislike CP MM ,of course they will not show in the publish.

Jacknch 08-03-2010 11:58 AM

Well if other threads are anything to go by, it seems then that all the queens dislike their daughters-in-law! Just because something is not seen in public does not mean it is true and it works the other way....I have have heard that Queen Elizabeth loves the Duchess of Cornwall but of course it will not be shown in public!!!

Her_Majesty 08-03-2010 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoria200122003 (Post 1120206)
What do you think that. I have heard that the queen dislike CP MM ,of course they will not show in the publish.

I never heard about something like that and actually I can not imagine it.

I was reading several times that the Queen sympathizes with CP MM since they both were commoners marrying the Crown Prince.
In the beginning the King and Queens had doubts about CP Haakon's choice to marry MM (mainly because of her past), but they accepted their son's choice.

Kenya 08-03-2010 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoria200122003 (Post 1120206)
What do you think that. I have heard that the queen dislike CP MM ,of course they will not show in the publish.


I can't even fathom that. It's impossible to know what goes on behind closed doors, of course, but in all the photos and videos I've seen of Sonja and Mette-Marit together, they have seemed to have a lovely, close relationship. Here are just a few of my favorite moments between them:

At the Queen’s 70th birthday celebrations

At MM's wedding day

At Queen Margarethe’s 70th birthday gala

Another one from Queen Margarethe’s 70th birthday


Sonja also seems to be very fond of Ari Behn, as well. I've always thought that she and Queen Beatrix appeared to have the best relationships with their children's spouses, but that's JMO.

There seems to always be speculation that the queens don't like each of the respective crown princesses (as well as speculation that Queen Silvia doesn't like Prince Daniel), but all of those rumors seem unfounded to me, and it seems like they all have good relationships.

Dierna23 08-04-2010 04:22 AM

I've heard that Sonja supported Mette especially in the beginning when she married Haakon as there were a few problems because of Mette's past.
Seeing the pictures that Kenya posted, I have no doubt about it that they have a good relationship. But of course you can never know what goes on behind closed doors.

Lumutqueen 08-04-2010 09:33 AM

This particular mother and daughter in laws have always looked like the ones who have the most in common.
Even in public it doesn't look like there is any animosty which sometimes you see.

Duke of Marmalade 08-04-2010 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dierna23 (Post 1120506)
I've heard that Sonja supported Mette especially in the beginning when she married Haakon as there were a few problems because of Mette's past.

Yes, Sonja suffered a lot when she married into the NRF, the palace people woudnt accept her or understand her needs. Her best friend became QM of Denmark around that time.

Sonja once said in an interview that she made sure that MM didnt have to go through the same ordeal, eg gave her an own office from the beginning to make a feel a full member of the NRF and the opportunity to create her own environment.

Quote:

Seeing the pictures that Kenya posted, I have no doubt about it that they have a good relationship. But of course you can never know what goes on behind closed doors.
Yes, of course, lots of cases in the past where the public has been fooled, sometimes until the bitter end.

Sonia616 01-01-2011 03:41 AM

Relationships between members of the Norwegian royal family.
 
Hi Guys :smile:

I'm so sorry if there is already a thread for this topic.

I really want to find out more about how the various members of the Norwegian royal family interact and get along with each other. For example:

How does Haakon get along with his parents?
Is he close to Martha-Louise?
How does Ari Behn get along with his in-laws?
Was King Harald close to his father, King Olav?

Both Haakon and Mette-Marit seem very affectionate towards their children in public, so I thought maybe their parents behaved the same with them. However, pictures of Haakon as a little boy often show Queen Sonja holding or hugging the kids, while Harald stands behind them or to the side. Is this just the way that the photograph was set up, or is it indicative of Harald's relationship with his kids?

Any information or opinions would be greatly appreciated, even if it is just speculation or rumour. I would also LOVE it if anyone has any old stories they heard about any of family members from when they were children.

And if this topic has already been discussed elsewhere, can someone please direct me to the thread?? :flowers: Thankyou in advance.

Fürstin Taxis 01-01-2011 11:56 AM

https://i51.tinypic.com/2rzsx2s.jpg :flowers:

Maura724 01-01-2011 01:46 PM

I have read that Haakon and Märtha Louise were/are very close. I’ve seen a lot of pictures of them as children in royal biographies, and they seem to have spent a lot of time together and always appear to be enjoying each other’s company. I think they had one of the most “normal” upbringings of the current generation of heirs – since Harald did not become King until they were 20 and 18, their parents were able to spend a lot more time with them as children. They seem to have been quite a normal family, and there aren’t any stories that I’m aware of of Haakon or Märtha Louise complaining about their parents leaving them with nannies etc., the way we have with Victoria and Frederik. From everything I’ve read both Haakon and Märtha have good relationships with both their parents today. (Although I don’t think Harald and Sonja are very much amused by Märtha’s angel school and books.)

As far as what you’ve noticed with family pictures, I think that’s more just a reflection of Harald’s personality than an indication that Sonja was closer to the children than he was. I think he’s a very shy person and not particularly expressive, so I don’t think he’s the sort of guy who does anything that would draw attention to himself in photos or when there’s a camera around. I think Sonja almost always seems more animated in any photo.

As far as Ari Behn, I have read a couple of articles/interviews where Ari talks about how well he gets along with Sonja, how wonderful she is, how well she understands him, and so on. I personally find it a little hard to believe, just because Ari seems so, well, odd, and he doesn’t seem to me like someone Harald and Sonja would be all that crazy about. However, I’m personally not all that crazy about Ari, so I may be projecting my own feelings onto them.

I think Harald and Olav were relatively close and had a good relationship. Harald’s mother died when he was 17, so there was a vast amount of time when they were the only major royals and did a lot of work together. However, the child who was closest to Olav wasn’t Harald, it was his sister Astrid. Harald had been closer to his mother.

teia 10-12-2012 07:34 AM

bitter
 
It is not that long that I've become aware of that famous TV interview
It is only know I've read all the translations and your reactions on it
I was schell schocked when I read that, only a few years ago, she burned the letters recieved from her father
To do such, you have to be very bitter about many different things
Her father has after all nothing to do with the choices his grand children are making as adults
If she burned her fathers letters than there must be somethings personal between daughter and father
But bitterness doesn't serve to much good and a royal going public with private matters pull's her down to a rating such as Standard & Poor's do, BB or so?

Maura724 10-12-2012 07:17 PM

Ragnhild burned Olav's letters not out of anger at him, but to prevent the letters from becoming public at her death. She was very old-fashioned and traditional and felt like reading her mail was a huge invasion of her privacy. I don't think there was anything explosive in the letters she wanted to hide; I think she just didn't like the idea of people reading private conversations.

teia 10-14-2012 12:30 PM

I do understand Ragnhild fears over her personal letters becoming public
But those letter didn't have to become public if no one would have wanted them to become so, they could of have stayed well within her family
Maybe someone in the family would have been very happy to been able to read them, seen them as a very tender souvenir?
At least, I personnaly, if something like it would happen to me, would be enchanted

Maura724 10-15-2012 09:18 AM

I agree that there may have been ways of keeping them private other than burning them. And I think they're loss is a sad one for history and for the family. My main point is just that she didn't do it out of anger. But I still don't think it was her best decision. :flowers:

teia 10-18-2012 10:56 AM

I think I am still upset about the 'burning', ok, burning is just a form of destroying something but still... In my book, burning pictures/letters or whatever rather than ripp them to pieces, even in very small ones, has an other meaning... It is only just, I would not of have done it, but I am sure Ragnhild had her reasons, and I agree it was not the best decision she made... What a pity if you even do not trust one family member to share those particular words who become phrases who are part of a father/daughter relation to share it with

teia 10-18-2012 11:11 AM

picture of Olav and Astrid
 
I have scrapbook of Olav and Co, recentely I found a picture of the late King Olav V and his daughter Astrid, the both of them at a later age
I think it is the most tender picture I have seen of anyone
Prove that words sometimes tell very little
A snapshot sometimes much more
I remained without words when I discovered it I assure
You can find it on 24.media.tumblr.com
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724 (Post 1183523)
I have read that Haakon and Märtha Louise were/are very close. I’ve seen a lot of pictures of them as children in royal biographies, and they seem to have spent a lot of time together and always appear to be enjoying each other’s company. I think they had one of the most “normal” upbringings of the current generation of heirs – since Harald did not become King until they were 20 and 18, their parents were able to spend a lot more time with them as children. They seem to have been quite a normal family, and there aren’t any stories that I’m aware of of Haakon or Märtha Louise complaining about their parents leaving them with nannies etc., the way we have with Victoria and Frederik. From everything I’ve read both Haakon and Märtha have good relationships with both their parents today. (Although I don’t think Harald and Sonja are very much amused by Märtha’s angel school and books.)

As far as what you’ve noticed with family pictures, I think that’s more just a reflection of Harald’s personality than an indication that Sonja was closer to the children than he was. I think he’s a very shy person and not particularly expressive, so I don’t think he’s the sort of guy who does anything that would draw attention to himself in photos or when there’s a camera around. I think Sonja almost always seems more animated in any photo.

As far as Ari Behn, I have read a couple of articles/interviews where Ari talks about how well he gets along with Sonja, how wonderful she is, how well she understands him, and so on. I personally find it a little hard to believe, just because Ari seems so, well, odd, and he doesn’t seem to me like someone Harald and Sonja would be all that crazy about. However, I’m personally not all that crazy about Ari, so I may be projecting my own feelings onto them.

I think Harald and Olav were relatively close and had a good relationship. Harald’s mother died when he was 17, so there was a vast amount of time when they were the only major royals and did a lot of work together. However, the child who was closest to Olav wasn’t Harald, it was his sister Astrid. Harald had been closer to his mother.


teia 10-18-2012 11:20 AM

daughters-in-law
 
I think this goes not only for royals... very often mothers-in-law do no like their daughters-in-law because they are just... you know why;)
And just as for us in real life they try very hard not to show it in public but you can hear it very well over the phone:whistling:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1120209)
Well if other threads are anything to go by, it seems then that all the queens dislike their daughters-in-law! Just because something is not seen in public does not mean it is true and it works the other way....I have have heard that Queen Elizabeth loves the Duchess of Cornwall but of course it will not be shown in public!!!


teia 10-18-2012 11:34 AM

seen on TV
 
Some time ago I have actually seen a TV interview, I think on ARTE (a French-German tv channel) were Queen Sonja was pretty anoyed by the journalist's question if it was true that she had a bad relationship with cp MM
I assure you she was ready to shoot the journalist to the moon (non verbal reaction of course) Noblesse oblige!
In my book this pretty much means that, her being so upset by the question... proves that the journalist had it quite ?
That was some time ago, I think that meanwhile they have sorted things out and improved their relationships!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Her_Majesty (Post 1120228)
I never heard about something like that and actually I can not imagine it.

I was reading several times that the Queen sympathizes with CP MM since they both were commoners marrying the Crown Prince.
In the beginning the King and Queens had doubts about CP Haakon's choice to marry MM (mainly because of her past), but they accepted their son's choice.


kalnel 11-18-2012 03:50 PM

I just went back to the beginning of this thread, and I wonder if some of the things Ragnhild said weren't judged a little too harshly. She said she thought her niece and nephew were "badly advised" in their choice of spouses, and she was right: Knowing nothing else about them, a single mother with a complicated past and a moody, controversial writer wouldn't be the best mates for the King's children.

(For that matter, how many families would be thrilled if these were the spouses their children picked?)

Happily, everything seems to have worked out well so far. I don't know much about Ari, but I've been impressed with how intelligent and mature Mette-Marit has seemed in interviews. Haakon deserves a lot of credit for seeing this in her from the start.

I agree with those who said Ragnhild probably shouldn't have shared her views publicly, but I can see her point. It must have been hard to watch her family and country headed down a road that seemed likely to end badly.

DaughterofFrance 11-22-2012 08:04 AM

Does anyone know what kind of relationship Olav had with Martha and Haakon? I wonder if they had some resentment in their grandfather for not letting their father marry their mother for such a long time.

Blog Real 08-09-2020 01:40 PM

I think Queen Sonja and Princess Mette-Marit have a good relationship.

How is King Harald and Queen Sonja's relationship with Marius, Princess Mette-Marit's son?

maria-olivia 08-10-2020 06:30 AM

A very happy family .
I read Princess Martha L started a new Company ?

JenLightly 08-11-2020 12:34 PM

Good for her! I'm curious as to what that business is, I tried googling for a source but couldn't find anything.

maria-olivia 08-11-2020 02:26 PM

Her Company is PML capital 30.000 Nok . ML is CEO .
( from "Mes Royaux Norvegiens")

Princess_Eleanor 08-18-2020 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaughterofFrance (Post 1485611)
Does anyone know what kind of relationship Olav had with Martha and Haakon? I wonder if they had some resentment in their grandfather for not letting their father marry their mother for such a long time.

Olav was very strict with Haakon, as he had been with Harald. His idea of raising a boy and heir was a, shall we say archaic, one.

Märtha Louise has said that she often burst into tears when Olav was scolding Haakon. "Why are you crying?" Olav would respond. But I suppose it stopped him sometimes.

He was softer on Märtha Louise because she was a girl and not the heir but he also wasn't of the opinion that women could or should do great things in life...

Prinsara 08-18-2020 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor (Post 2336720)
Olav was very strict with Haakon, as he had been with Harald. His idea of raising a boy and heir was a, shall we say archaic, one.

Märtha Louise has said that she often burst into tears when Olav was scolding Haakon. "Why are you crying?" Olav would respond. But I suppose it stopped him sometimes.

He was softer on Märtha Louise because she was a girl and not the heir but he also wasn't of the opinion that women could or should do great things in life...

I don't know about the last bit. Either Ragnhild or Astrid has been clearly mentioned as the favorite by different people. I don't think that comes from believing women aren't capable, but simply that they had no place in the sphere of Norwegian monarchy at the time, which they didn't, not the reigning bit. He was uncomfortable accommodating Sonja because there hadn't been a woman doing anything major (Astrid was First Lady for several years but that may have seemed less disruptive) for a long time.

As for Harald, Märtha died when he was 17 and she'd been ill for a while before that. Olav was so affected he decided he never wanted to marry again. I can't imagine that, compounded with not having seen Harald as a child for most of five years, made their relationship any easier.

By the time ML and Haakon came along he was clearly just a crotchety old guy, but they don't speak entirely badly of him, either. Not even Sonja does. And I don't think it's for his reputation as Folkekong but rather because there must have been some good times.

Princess_Eleanor 08-18-2020 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2336775)
I don't know about the last bit. Either Ragnhild or Astrid has been clearly mentioned as the favorite by different people. I don't think that comes from believing women aren't capable, but simply that they had no place in the sphere of Norwegian monarchy at the time, which they didn't, not the reigning bit. He was uncomfortable accommodating Sonja because there hadn't been a woman doing anything major (Astrid was First Lady for several years but that may have seemed less disruptive) for a long time.

As for Harald, Märtha died when he was 17 and she'd been ill for a while before that. Olav was so affected he decided he never wanted to marry again. I can't imagine that, compounded with not having seen Harald as a child for most of five years, made their relationship any easier.

By the time ML and Haakon came along he was clearly just a crotchety old guy, but they don't speak entirely badly of him, either. Not even Sonja does. And I don't think it's for his reputation as Folkekong but rather because there must have been some good times.


Astrid was the favorite! I do think he was a difficult character and she knew how to take him. In a documentary, Astrid said that Harald and she never talked about his relationship with Sonja. That struck the interviewer as odd - me too, I mean 9 years?! But maybe it's precisely because Astrid was so close to Olav that Harald didn't tell her anything?

In my opinion Olav was basically an old patriarch and if look at old patriarchs, their favorites are actually often the daughters or granddaughters but it's the boys that they expect great things of.

I don't think they'd ever do that, even if it was true. He was the King, he was a popular King and just how bad he was I do not know. But I do think that Sonja and Märtha talking about how difficult it was for Sonja at the male-dominated court, how she wasn't valued and had to fight for some kind of position is a polite & round-about way of saying that she had difficulties without having to mention Olav's role in them. It can't have all been the courtiers' & employees' fault, I mean who was in power? Olav.

Prinsara 08-18-2020 11:21 AM

Astrid, yes, but I've heard people like Trond Noren Isaksen say Ragnhild, too. Maybe it was Ragnhild first, and Astrid after she left Norway?

Olav himself, if you think about it, was a standard semi-spoiled only kid not just by his parents, but beloved by a whole country from the age of 2 — AND although very close to his dad, he was stuck behind him until nearly the age of 55. I think all of that contributes to the tyrant attitude. AND if you think about how he was so easygoing and friendly in public, he probably invariably needed people he could be cross and upset with — Harald, Sonja and the kids.

I wonder how he would have managed if the Storting had done a Sweden, and he'd ended up with an heiress?

Princess_Eleanor 08-18-2020 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2336789)
Astrid, yes, but I've heard people like Trond Noren Isaksen say Ragnhild, too. Maybe it was Ragnhild first, and Astrid after she left Norway?

Olav himself, if you think about it, was a standard semi-spoiled only kid not just by his parents, but beloved by a whole country from the age of 2 — AND although very close to his dad, he was stuck behind him until nearly the age of 55. I think all of that contributes to the tyrant attitude. AND if you think about how he was so easygoing and friendly in public, he probably invariably needed people he could be cross and upset with — Harald, Sonja and the kids.

I wonder how he would have managed if the Storting had done a Sweden, and he'd ended up with an heiress?


Oh interesting! Definitely Astrid afterwards but it could have been Ragnhild before she left, I don't know.

He would probably have disagreed but ultimately dealt with it, I suppose? But Olav trying to toughen up the sensitive & emotional Märtha Louise would have been a recipe for disaster.

Prinsara 08-18-2020 03:29 PM

I think it's possible to get a very good sense of Harald's character when he openly talks about having two outspoken big sisters who yelled at and scolded him since he was born and were not at all put off by the fact that eventually he was the king! :lol:

(Harald is a very funny, very loving guy. Who obviously respects women.)

Princess_Eleanor 08-19-2020 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2336859)
I think it's possible to get a very good sense of Harald's character when he openly talks about having two outspoken big sisters who yelled at and scolded him since he was born and were not at all put off by the fact that eventually he was the king! :lol:

(Harald is a very funny, very loving guy. Who obviously respects women.)


LOL that's very funny :lol: And yes, he definitely does :flowers:


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