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-   -   Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen, Current Events Part 3: Dec 2009-Sept 2015 (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f216/countess-alexandra-and-martin-j-rgensen-current-events-part-3-dec-2009-sept-2015-a-26224.html)

rylt11 02-01-2010 06:27 PM

I really thought Joachim would be there.

Terri Terri 02-02-2010 10:30 AM

An online article from BT.dk speculating as to why Prince Joachim did not attend the funeral.
Derfor blev Joachim væk fra Manleys begravelse - Royale - BT.dk

rylt11 02-02-2010 05:02 PM

Can anyone please translate the article, or the gist of the article which explains Joachim's absence from the funeral of his former father-in-law?

JessRulz 02-03-2010 03:38 AM

:previous:

Google Translate

To translate an article, if you paste the link into Google it will give you a choice to "Translate this page" automatically.

ricarda 02-03-2010 03:42 AM

The article states that the royal house did not give any comment about Joachim's absence since this is considered a private matter.
That's the only fact, everything else is pure speculation or explanation by a family therapist.
He says that Joachim possibly did not attend out of consideration for his new wife and family. And that he, if he had still been a single, most probably would have attended. Then he could have taken care of his sons while Martin would have been able to take more care of Alexandra.

lyndaW 02-03-2010 12:24 PM

Joachim is a stickler for doing what is correct, we will never know exactly why he decided not to attend, but the Manley's lived in the two story red brick "gatehouse" I believe longer than Alex lived at Schackenborg...he was an outstanding son-in-law, very few X's would continue to support & have on their property their former inlaws.

rylt11 02-08-2010 04:41 PM

I think the explanation that was given is a good one. It would have been very different if he was still single. Considering how close the inlaws were to Joachim, lifing right there on the grounds at Schackenborg for so many years, it's a little strange that he wouldn't be at the funeral, but certainly acceptable.

Zonk 02-08-2010 04:57 PM

IMO it certainly was not acceptable.

This wasn't some guy he met casually who died..or a friend of a friend.....Joachim was the father in law to Mr. Manley for several years, Mr. and Mrs. Manley lived on his property during and after his marriage to their daughter and he was the grandfather to Joachim's two sons. When paternal my grandmother recently passed my mother attended her funeral. My parents were married for 22 years and divorced for 10, and they weren't particularly friendly but it was a sign of respect. Of course my step mother had a problem with it...but its her problem.

Now I will acknolwedge that Joachim is in a no win situation. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. His presence would have brought a lot of unwelcome attention to HIM rather than celebrating the life of Mr. Manley. Just as his absence has done. I certainly wouldn't not expect Marie to attend. She has no direct relation with the Manleys other than being the step mother to the two boys. Its great that both Joachim, Alexandra, Martin and Marie have a great relationship for civility sake as well as the well being of the of the two boys....but let's keep it in perspective.

But we have no knowledge of what really happened. I am sure Joachim conveyed his condolences via phone call to the Manley family.

But that is just my opinion.

Terri Terri 02-08-2010 08:10 PM

Quote:

Its great that both Joachim, Alexandra, Martin and Marie have a great relationship for civility sake as well as the well being of the of the two boys.
I agree...Civility is what we see in public. But relationships change and Prince Joachim has new priorities - a new wife and son. We really don't know what the relationships are like in private now. I don't think that everything is as sweet and easy as is presented to the public where these 2 couples (Joachim & Marie and Alexandra & Martin) are concerned. There could be some difficulties there that we don't know about.

Zonk 02-08-2010 08:59 PM

There could definitely be some issues we aren't privy too. That's why I say let's keep things in perspective, they are managing raise the two boys together...all four of them with Alexandra and Joachim making the final decisions. They are after all the parents. Joachim and Alexandra certainly have friends in common but I don't think Martin and Joachim are going to have a drink and/or coffee just to shoot the breeze unless it relates to the boys and the same with Alexandra and Marie. I find it a little strange that people would expect Marie to attend Mr. Manley's funeral. If something happened to the Queen and Prince Henrik, I would expect Alexandra to attend the funeral but I wouldn't expect Martin to attend.

Nonetheless, I do think that Joachim should have attended Mr. Manley's funeral it doesn't matter if he was married and/or single. This is a man that was a part of his family for several years. But I acknowledge that he was in a no win situation, and the funeral was really a homegoing service for Mr. Manley and not about Joachim. My deepest sympathies and condolences to the Manley family.

Katrianna 02-09-2010 12:13 AM

I guess I have to say that I would have liked to see Joachim attend Mr. Manley's funeral. If he wanted to, he could have entered through a side entrance and even though he may have been photographed, it would have probably been only one or two pictures. It would have been a nice gesture toward the Manley family and the boys would have their father with them and their mother. When my mother died my brother's ex-wife showed up at the funeral even though they were divorced for 15 yr. and it was nice of her to do that.
There very well may have been matters that aren't known as to why he didn't attend, but the floral tribute sent by Joachim and Marie was nevertheless a very nice gesture and I'm sure Joachim did speak to Alexandra per phone to express condolences.:smile:

rylt11 02-14-2010 07:41 PM

I think that Joachim must certainly have spoken at least to Alexandra (if not her mother and sisters as well) when he learned of his former father-in-law's death.

I remember how emphatic he was when the engagement interview took place and he was asked about the Manleys continuing to live at Schackenborg. He said there would be no pushing of any kind to have them leave. He seemed to be completely genuine in his remarks. Marie stayed quiet and respected what Joachim was saying. She didn't go to live in Schackenborg until the marriage (actually, wasn't her family staying there during the pre-wedding events?)

Joachim appears to be the ideal son-in-law with regard to Alexandra's family. It's not every son-in-law who willingly lives that near to his in-laws. Wonderful for the grandchildren. It looked ideal, didn't it?

I notice that the two princes are not with their father and Marie this holiday. Perhaps they need to be with their mother for support...Or maybe they'll turn up on the Swiss mountains in pictures soon.

Tricota 02-19-2010 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyndaW (Post 1050689)
B.T. had a short article February 11, 2010, that Joachim is or has leased part of his 1200 hectacres,
AND
his Farm Manager Stewart Soren Frrdereksen of 17-years will be leaving (no reason given) the first of the year, so the position will be open............

Any one have some additonal information....perhaps (my guess only) Joachim will be taking over more duties from Henrik & the Queen, as Fred will be tied up with the IOC for 9.5 more years

Farms are getting larger and larger every year, and he is often is a somewhat difficult position, being both a prince and a farmer. I think he will be getting more of a role in the Royal duties, something that has been hempered in the last 5 years due to the whole Alexandra thing, and coupled with the responsebility of being a new father, means that he will probably spend less time on the farming and simply lease out the land insted. Perhaps some even hopes that, as Alexandras role in the Royal Family diminishes, she would get less money from the state and he would get more.

Terri Terri 02-19-2010 06:14 AM

Prince Joachim received an increase in his annuity when he married Marie. He gets about 3.2 Million Dkk annually. However, he is now breeding cattle on his farm in addition to still planting crops like wheat, barley, potatoes and Christmas trees (This information was from an interview he and Marie gave which was in the paper edition of Billed Bladet).

Alexandra has no role in the royal family and gets about 2 Million annually since she retained some of her patronages and is the mother of 2 princes. This annuity will be given to her for the rest of her life.

The royal family's and Alexandra's annuities are adjusted upwards (increased) every year.

And yes...the younger members of the family are taking over more duties from the Queen and Prince Henrik, but it is the Crown Prince Couple who are taking over a lot of the more important duties.

Tricota 02-19-2010 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1052801)
Prince Joachim received an increase in his annuity when he married Marie. He gets about 3.2 Million Dkk annually. However, he is now breeding cattle on his farm in addition to still planting crops like wheat, barley, potatoes and Christmas trees (This information was from an interview he and Marie gave which was in the paper edition of Billed Bladet).

Which is apparently now changeing.

Quote:

Alexandra has no role in the royal family and gets about 2 Million annually since she retained some of her patronages and is the mother of 2 princes. This annuity will be given to her for the rest of her life.
Although she has no role in the Royal Family, she is still part of it as mother to the Nikolaj and Felix, and she still has patronages. And her income is by no means secure, as evident by the fact that she has started working again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1052801)
And yes...the younger members of the family are taking over more duties from the Queen and Prince Henrik, but it is the Crown Prince Couple who are taking over a lot of the more important duties.

Perhaps. But with Henrik in France most of the time, and Frederik in IOC, there is still a lot to be done, especially as Benedikte get older. And with both Frederik and the Queen traveling a lot, he has to stay and be in charge formally.

Terri Terri 02-19-2010 07:46 AM

The change is that Prince Joachim's farm is now focusing on more cattle breeding verses growing crops.


Countess Alexandra's children are members of the royal family. Alexandra is no longer a member of the royal house or royal family as was announced at the time of her engagement to Martin by the royal house itself. Her income from the government is secure as she will receive it for the rest of her life. However, before she married Martin, she did not have to pay taxes or VAT on her government annuity. That changed when she married a second time, which is why she took the job as a director for Ferring Pharmaceuticals to make up for the loss of some of her government annuity through taxes and VAT.


The IOC will not take up all of CP Frederik's time. For example, CP Frederik is not staying until the end of the winter games in Vancouver (like CP Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands). According to his calender, his last day is today. He is returning to Denmark as he will be regent for a few days next week. So in this current instance, his duties as the CP of Denmark supercede those with the IOC.

Tricota 02-20-2010 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1052832)
The change is that Prince Joachim's farm is now focusing on more cattle breeding verses growing crops.

Yes, I believe that was what I said.


Quote:

Her income from the government is secure as she will receive it for the rest of her life. However, before she married Martin, she did not have to pay taxes or VAT on her government annuity. That changed when she married a second time, which is why she took the job as a director for Ferring Pharmaceuticals to make up for the loss of some of her government annuity through taxes and VAT.
I am sorry, but you are just wrong. Her income is by no means secured for the rest of her life. There is already talk of cutting back that income and it was almost deffenitly dissapear when they boys turn 18.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1052832)
The IOC will not take up all of CP Frederik's time. For example, CP Frederik is not staying until the end of the winter games in Vancouver (like CP Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands). According to his calender, his last day is today. He is returning to Denmark as he will be regent for a few days next week. So in this current instance, his duties as the CP of Denmark supercede those with the IOC.

No they didnt. The major IOC stuff was over and since Denmark has almost no medal chances at the winter olympic (unlike Holland), there was no reason for him to stay. But this is not only a matter of time, but a matter of being out of the country. And Joachim is acting as rigsforstander more and more these days.

Terri Terri 02-20-2010 02:38 PM

Quote:

Yes, I believe that was what I said.
Good! So we agree on that point!:flowers:

Quote:

I am sorry, but you are just wrong. Her income is by no means secured for the rest of her life. There is already talk of cutting back that income and it was almost deffenitly dissapear when they boys turn 18.
Can you provide evidence of this? Who is talking about cutting back her income when her children turn 18 years?

ADDITION:

I have now located the law pertaining to Alexandra's patronage and the links are provided below:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms....aspx?id=20983 (In Danish)

Let's take a look at the announcement from the Danish Royal Family's website at the time of Alexandra's engagement to Martin Jørgensen in March 2007 as follows:
Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Arkiv (Danish version)
Google Translate (Online English translation)
Quote:

Under the Act of 24 November 2004 Annual Allowance for Princess Alexandra, the Princess as Countess continue to receive a special benefit from the state without tax exemptions.
There has never been any announcement that Alexandra's appange will discontinue when her children become of age. The Danish government granted Alexandra a lifetime appanage given the work she had done as princess of Denmark for 9 years and as long as she continues to work for her 14 patronages, she will continue to get the government appanage. Futhermore, her appanage is indexed to inflation and will continue to increase, just like the royal family and civil servants in Denmark.
More links to information on Alexandra's appanage as follows:
https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...-a-4146-3.html
Princess Alexandra can look forward to a DKK 2 mil
Political parties came out broadly in support of a

Quote:

And Joachim is acting as rigsforstander more and more these days.
Joachim only acts as rigsforstander when both the Queen and CP Frederik is out of the country. But I accept your point though. The Crown Prince Couple accompanied the Regent Couple on their first State Visit to Vietnam and we can expect that the Crown Prince Couple may accompany the Regent Couple on other state visits in the future so either Joachim or Princess Benedikte will be rigsforstander.

But we can also make the point that if the younger couples in the DRF are taking over more duties from the elderly Queen and Prince Henrik, then that will mean more travelling for the Crown Prince Couple, Prince Joachim and Princess Marie. So we may find that Princess Benedikte will act as rigsforstander more in the future if the Queen is overseas as well.

Tricota 02-22-2010 09:18 AM

Oh, boy...I am runing out of ways to say this, so Ill just have to repeat myself. You are wrong. The money she currently recieves is not secure. Her wages, like the rest of the Royal Family, is negotiated twice a year, and the appanage is at the whim of the politicians. The only person the state is obliged to support is the Regent.

Danmarks Riges Grundlov - § 11

Noone else. Not Prince Henrik or Princess Benedikte, not the Crown Prince couple and not Joachim and Marie and certainly not Alexandre. They can chose to do so if they want, but it is totally up to them. And just because you are given it once, does not mean it is granted forever.

The money she currently recieves is a result of a time when she was A; stil considered part of the outer Royal Family, B; stil had many more or less official obligations, C; unmarried, D; broke and E; the mother of Nikolaj and Felix.

At the moment she is no longer by any streach "part of the family", nor does she have any onligations of that nature. She is also no longer unmarried and no longer broke. So the only thing that is really ensureing her a place on the civil list (god I loathe that word) is that she is a mother to Nikolaj and Felix. That will always be the case of course, but when they are both of legal age, there is no need for her to continue recieving money from the state, which is who more and more people thinks that it will end by then, if not sooner. She has already demonstrated that she can be on the board of Ferring. Any more of that and I think the arengement could end before that.

But let me ask you, why do you imagen, that she has so actively been looking for work, if her income was secured for life?

The royal finances are decided by politicians, and she is not longer in a favoureble situation.

Terri Terri 02-22-2010 10:36 AM

Yet you still have not provided any proof that Alexandra's appanage will end when her children are 18. If that was to be the case, it would have been part of the original law granting her the allowance. And again, the reason why she is looking for additional work is to replace part of the the government income she has lost through having to pay taxes and VAT on her appanage from the government which occurred at the time of her marriage to Martin. She loses about 60% of the DKK 2 Million that she receives from the government to Taxes, so of course she is actively looking for work to make up for that 60% loss.

We are going around in circles. Neither of us are going to change our point of view here.

So we'll have to agree to disagree!


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