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silverstar 10-23-2009 06:53 PM

The Revolution
 
In the early days of the Revolution there were rumours
that the rioters were being paid to riot.
Rumours abounded that the super rich Duc D'Orleans was financing the unrest or was it agents of the British Government?
Somehow... with the bloody course of events and the execution of the King and Queen... I cant think that the British Monarchy took any pleasure in seeing the sufferings of Marie Antoinette and the demise of the French Monarchy... they must have feared a similar movement taking hold in Britain.
No doubt in trade and finance Britain pulled ahead of France in those years but Im sure everyone was horrified to read in their papers and news sheets the endless accounts of riot , violence and bloody execution taking place in Paris.

larlincol7 10-26-2009 11:32 AM

reply to Revolution
 
I have read of stories that it was the British Ambassador who was paying people in the streets to riot; all were lies and rumours. I believe King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette were good people who were caught up in a situation that was no longer in their control. The centuries have passed and the French love their republic aa the British are proud of their ancient monarchy. Two peoples vastly different on their version of governance; luckily someday a new European government will oversee the continent.

silverstar 10-26-2009 11:45 AM

but there are powers at work in France who wish to
restore the monarchy.
If it was a choice between King Louis 16th and Nicholas Sarkozy ..... I know who I d choose !

larlincol7 10-26-2009 01:55 PM

re. Revolution
 
I too think that monarchy draws a link to a nation's past; certainly the oldest and greatest was the French monarchy. Unfortunately the times have past; I agree that many French People long for the return of the monarchy but the majority enjoy their republic. Democracy still wins out in the end. I just realized that in 1989 when the French celebrated their 200th anniversary of the revolution NOT ONE reigning monarch in Europe attended the events. THAT was fascinating to me ; after all that time royalty sticks together in remembrance of a a murdered king and queen.

silverstar 10-26-2009 03:51 PM

I did nt realize ....until recently....that the Eiffel Tower was actually built to commemorate the Centenary of the French Revolution..... but then
...its completion date 1889... I should have guessed !

Its a brilliant monument and still the most visited paid monument in the world with millions ascending the tower every year.
( Cant think why London never built something similar years ago........... instead of that stupid Millenium dome !)

larlincol7 10-27-2009 11:36 AM

revolution
 
Between you and me the Brits have done just fine without any metal tower overlooking the sky! One has to respect a people and nation for their political choices. I personally think no nation ever did as well as the Brits in combining their ancient monarchy with a representative parliament. It was the best of both worlds. My opinion. I sympathize with the French monarchists but they realize most of the French like their republic.

chabot4me 03-09-2010 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstar (Post 1010324)
but there are powers at work in France who wish to
restore the monarchy.
If it was a choice between King Louis 16th and Nicholas Sarkozy ..... I know who I d choose !

;) To have or not to have a new Monarchy in France. The times have changed since the revelution has taken place. The real question is if the majority of the people want to have the monarchy back. I think it is a fascinating avenue of thought, Truthfully whether a person becomes the president, a ruler, or is the King it is important to remeber that it is so for only one reason. That is the Lord of hosts has blessed them for a season. :franceflag3::turkey:

chabot4me 03-11-2010 05:03 AM

The throne of England
 
It has fasinated me how the Queen of England is still beloved by the people of her country. I was struck in surprize when Queen Elizabeth came to the state of Virgina, USA and she recieved a royal greeting from the citizens here in the USA. She had traveled to see Williamsburg Va. For the 300 year celabration. It really was something to see, the Queen of England on soil that rebelled against the home land just over 200 years ago. Not just here in the USA but also adored by many of the people. I guess this speaks volumes of the person the Queen is and the hope for the French monarchy.

Anne-fan 04-05-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Somehow... with the bloody course of events and the execution of the King and Queen... I cant think that the British Monarchy took any pleasure in seeing the sufferings of Marie Antoinette and the demise of the French Monarchy... they must have feared a similar movement taking hold in Britain.
I believe as well, that they must have feared something similiar in their country. But then again, France was a huge rival for Britain. I can imagine that they perhaps felt some kind of malicious joy.

Quote:

I believe King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette were good people who were caught up in a situation that was no longer in their control. The centuries have passed and the French love their republic aa the British are proud of their ancient monarchy. Two peoples vastly different on their version of governance; luckily someday a new European government will oversee the continent.
For sure they were good people, but they were horrible rulers. Marie was far too childish for her role and Louis hadn't enough self confidence. The French gentry influenced his gouvernment too much and it was also too much after tradition. They should have changed...moved on. You know what I mean.

Quote:

( Cant think why London never built something similar years ago........... instead of that stupid Millenium dome !)
Wouldn't it be sad, if London had a reason to build such a thing? After all, the revolution caused the break down of this monarchy. I don't want the British monarchy to suffer the same. After all I support the monarchy as state form - that's why I'm a member of this forum ;)



I think it's a good thing, that there are state's which have become a democracy. Each state has to decide by itself, what it wants to be. Or better said, the people have to decide, after all, they are the state. The french chose a republic, whilst the British have sticked to their monarchy, both of them have their reasons. And why not?

silverstar 04-05-2010 04:37 PM

Im sure there must be huge interest in France
about the French monarchy.... perhaps especially Marie Antoinette.
I think they are lucky to have the incredible
Versailles... intact and in place.... it could so easily have been looted during the Revolution and burned to the ground by angry mobs.

It was in October 1789 when the March of the Women took place ... basically an unruly mob... and they stood outside the Palace of Versailles in the rain demanding that the King and Queen return with them to Paris.

A similar scenario in Windsor with a London mob outside Windsor Castle would have been answered by a volley or two from the Guards regiment or one of the many military regiments on hand.

Incredibly back in October 1789 ... perhaps with Lafayettes advice... the King agreed to prepare his family and return to Paris with the bloodthirsty mob !

Something was very wrong with the military back then.... they must have been hugely demoralized... the nobility too...

But then King Louis 16th himself.... like his aunts said to Marie Antoinette... "he's not like other men "
In fact he was hopeless... indecicive, dithering... weak.
In those later years Marie Antoinette must have despaired at his lack of will and command.

COUNTESS 04-05-2010 07:48 PM

The truth is when so many have so little and so few have so much and care less about the many, you get revolution, i.e, France, Russia.

Anne-fan 04-07-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COUNTESS (Post 1065747)
The truth is when so many have so little and so few have so much and care less about the many, you get revolution, i.e, France, Russia.

You are absolutly right! They should have acted instead of holding on to something already death sentenced.
And it only makes sense, why the guards didn't stop the women back then.

kwoodford 07-27-2010 05:27 AM

Also, the guards had been fighting in the American war for Independence several years earlier, and as such had witnessed and fought for the ideas of the french revolution (no taxation without representation, equality etc) being put into place! Coming back to a kingdom that was very much engaged in feudalism and everything they had been fighting against in America, it isn't much of a surprise that they didn't support an absolute monarch....

Cory 07-27-2010 09:16 AM

And so the "Revolution" arrived to bring the real peace to France....Everybody seems to forget all the terror&blood&lies brought by this "Revolution".

LouisXVI 07-29-2010 05:13 AM

It makes me sick in the guts that people celebrate and honor a day marked by deaths of innocents all in the name of liberty. How can you enjoy your sweet liberty knowing it was based on lies and murder. Ending with Napoleon, A dictator who plowed through Europe and caused even more deaths. The very thing so called Revolutionaries were trying to escape?

People all say things were done in the name of god that were atrocities, but what about in the name of liberty? To be free and independent. Tell that to the 9 year old Louis who was thrown in a cell for six months with no light, no food and wadding in his own excriment. Tell that to the nuns slaughtered by the hundreds or the other thousands that endured the reign of terror. Barbaric!

And whats worse is even to this day these people are judged, ridiculed and lable calious royalty.

It seems france's Liberty was for only the parisians and blood thirsty power grabbers. The shear fact that nearly every history book I have read has stated France WOULD have came to a constitutional nation anyway had the king not be sent to madame la guillotine.

Australia apologised to the Aboriginal people for the crimes they commited. Maybe the head of France can walk straight up to Louis XX and say sorry!!!

larlincol7 09-21-2010 02:31 PM

King Louis XVI
 
I agree with you on practically everything you wrote. I also know that the victors write the history books. We know in our hearts that King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette were innocent of the crimes the French Republic accused them of; no matter what some books state. THAT is why the French wish to concentrate on the events of 1789 and not the reign of terror. Who wouldn't?? What country wants to talk about the murder of a King and Queen and the little innocent Dauphin? The King's sister? Antoine Lavoisier, the father of modern chemistry? How many thousands of innocents murdered. We Americans were lucky to have escaped the barbarism and bloodshed of the French Revolution. WE can still pray for Their Majesties and all the innocents of the crimes against humanity.

COUNTESS 09-21-2010 02:55 PM

What everyone seems to forget is the miserable existence the French lived under their monarchy. That the treatment they dished out, was how they lived, basically reversed. Was that right. No. Did Louis XVI deserve his treatment. No. He was better than many of his family. He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Louis was a plodder and Marie a frivolous woman. The children's treatment is unforgiveable. But the monarchy's treatment of their subjects for many, many years before this opened the door. Pent up anger and hatred exploded, untamed.

RJ TAYLER 09-22-2010 07:09 AM

Wait till the inevitable next revolution when the current fifth, or subsequent republic turns in on itself.

larlincol7 09-22-2010 08:42 AM

King Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette
 
I certainly agree that conditions were not the best in France on the eve of the revolution; bad weather and a terrible harvest. Yet, France had a growing middle class and it was their desire for power that was behind the movements for reform. King Louis XVI was a good Christian man who loved science and reading. I disagree with you re. the comments that Queen Marie Antoinette was frivolous. Certainly as a young girl when she first came to France. However she matured and was touched by so much tragedy. She lost her diaughter Sophie Helene and then the Dauphin dies at the opening of the Estates Generale. This Queen showed MORE CLASS and BREEDING than anyone in her nation ;especially on her way to the guillotine. She remains for me one of the most maligned figures in history.

COUNTESS 09-22-2010 04:14 PM

Yes, she suffered as a mother, yes, she was not the "evil" queen many portray her as. I didn't mean frivolity in the way of waste, but she built gardens and the Hameau, at a time when people had very little. She was bright and well read. I liked her. Of course, she had more beeding than many others, she was an Austrian ArchDuchess, as well as the Queen of France. Her mother was an Empress. She knew how to deport herself.

RoyalistRiley 09-23-2010 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ TAYLER (Post 1139244)
Wait till the inevitable next revolution when the current fifth, or subsequent republic turns in on itself.

I think that the fact France has had 5 goes at a republic actually shows a monarchy might make a comeback in the future. Hopefully if it does it won't be as bloody as the French Revolution

silverstar 11-05-2010 09:54 PM

What really happened on that wet October night in 1769 ?
The women had spent all day marching there... soaked to the skin... feet covered in mud.....
Lafayette and his militia didnt get there till midnight... huge A huge crowd built up around the palace... often
angry and threatening..... what did Lafayette do... he
went to a local hotel and immediately fell into a deep sleep.
Of course , in the early hours , ( while Lafayette slept ) security was breached and a bloodthirsty mob broke into the palace and began hunting Marie Antoinette.... who then fled for her life.
The next morning... to placate the angry mob King Louis suddenly announced to the crowd that he would return with them to Paris with his wife and family.
It seems incredible that he made this decision... on the spot.. without consulting anyone... giving in to the mob and then having to travel on a humiliating 8 hour journey to Paris
Marie suffering abuse and threats from the fisherwomen and rough market women...

What should really have happened is Lafayette and his militia should have restored control and order.... violence would have ensued but the crisis would have passed and the King and Queen would be safe and secure in Versailles.
Time and time again we see a weak King .. dithering... unable to make tough decisions and having ... misplaced faith and trust in .. " the French people " or in that case.. the " French Mob "

Marie Antoinette must have despaired at her weak, docile husband

silverstar 11-24-2010 06:48 PM

There was an interesting repeat of history.... in 1870...
Empress Eugenie was living in the Tuileries Palace...
Emperor Louis Napoleon was with his troops.... trying to lift morale against the onslaught of the Prussian army.
The French army faced defeat and Louis was captured.
The fickle Paris mob began to turn against the monarchy...
Fearing for her life ...Eugenie decided she must flee....
She escaped Paris in a horse drawn carriage.... and eventually made it to England and safety.
It was like a later day... flight to Varrens.... only this time with a happy outcome.
Louis and her son eventually joined her there in England and they lived in some style.
Sadly ill health took its toll on Louis Napoleon and he died a couple of years later.
Eugenie's son grew to manhood and joined the British Army.
While serving in South Africa he was ambushed by Zulu warriors and killed.
Eugenie... heartbroken... eventually travelled to South Africa and visited the scene of her sons ambush and killing.
She lived on to a grand old age and lived to see her arch enemies... the Germans... defeated by France and the allies in the first world war.

silverstar 12-10-2010 04:20 AM

Museum of the French Revolution..... looks like a formidable place...
anyone ever been there ?
Celebheaven • View topic - Museum of the French Revolution

David V 12-10-2010 08:28 PM

The can be no doubt that the violence of the French Revolution was terrible, certainly nothing to be proud of. Sadly, humanity has not really progressed beyond that sort of thing these days.

But so much of today's political landscape can trace its origins to the Revolution. Today's remaining monarchies in Europe owe their existence in part to their response to the Revolution. Before 1789, the only monarchies that we could describe as constitutional monarchies were Britain, Poland and Sweden. Britain had its Glorious Revolution to affirm the supremacy of Parliament. Poland long had a parliamentary tradition, but the liberal reforms of 1791 was too late to save it from partition. Sweden long had its parliament and council, and the Age of Liberty in the 18th century. Legislative bodies of a sort existed in most European monarchies, but their powers varied- in Denmark, there was from 1660 to 1849 a "pure" absolutism without even that, whose effect was actually to break the influence and privilege of the nobility.

The First Republic, as we all know, exported its revolutionary ideas throughout Europe through the creation of client republics, and became more of a military state with Napoleon in power. Then Napoleon decided to take things in a different path- he created his own monarchy with himself as Emperor, and exported his new ideals throughout Europe as well, by creating client monarchies. But this also led to more wars involving much of Europe. It's true that Napoleon brought some progressive reforms- and that included equality before the law, etc.

While the Congress of Vienna restored the "old" order, France never reverted back to the absolutism of the Ancien Regime. And constitutionalism became permanent in Europe. However, the Bourbon Restoration would break down too, and a more liberal monarchy came under the House of Orleans, who played their part of the revolution.

In effect this meant you found two different versions and visions of monarchy: the traditional way and the more modern and liberal way. In a sense, Napoleon believed he was creating a "Third Way" between the radical republicans and reactionary royalists. The Orleans did exactly the same, calling it le juste milieu- the "balance" between radical and reactionary. But at the same time, we could see that at the tail end of the Napoleonic Wars, Norway was drafting their constitution, which remains in force today. They took on board ideas from France and the US, but decided on a constitutional monarchy, and they are very proud of their constitution. The Netherlands did the same (albeit heavily amended over time). The events of 1830 and 1848 (which was as much about liberalism as it was about nationhood in Germany and Italy) really only continued the political evolution.

silverstar 12-10-2010 10:14 PM

Napoleon's mother became known as ... Madamoiselle Mere... I believe
incredible that her children grew up to become rulers of half of Europe....
Austria... a rival of France for centuries, yet Napolean defeated them ... there were some amazing victories for the French at that time.
Just wondering... was there ever a victorious entry of Napoleon into Vienna ? that would be very symbolic .

David V 12-11-2010 06:59 AM

It was Austria's Metternich who through the Congress of Vienna re-established the "old order" in Europe from 1815, which was to last to 1848 and ultimately ended with German Unification in 1871. France of course underwent numerous political changes in that time. When Franz Josef took the Austrian throne in 1848, he ended the power of Metternich, although in Austria this was the time of neo-absolutism.

I am doing an essay on historic and current monarchist movements, and the developments during and after the Revolution are or will be mentioned, in explaining why there are three distinct French monarchist movements.

silverstar 12-11-2010 10:50 AM

I think to understand the French Revolution we have to study
the Duc D'Orleans and the Palais Royal.... which seems to have been
a hedonistic domain of brothels and prostitution and a place for radicals to meet.
Also there were printing presses in there so it was a source for the tidal wave of pamphlets and pornography which defamed Marie Antoinette and the Monarchy.....
I dont think the authorities in London would ever have allowed
such a set up in the heart of London back then !
go here
Celebheaven • View topic - Philippe Egalite... Duc d'Orleans

COUNTESS 12-11-2010 04:23 PM

Oh, you don't think the horrendeous conditions that the populace lived under and the lack of justice that they faced, had anything to do with it. Just "hedonistic domain, where radicals could meet", did it?

silverstar 12-11-2010 04:44 PM

But those radicals and their printing presses were supplying the
combustable fuel..... ie political and pornographic pamphlets .....for those hungry masses to read...... and the scheming
Duc D'Orleans was giving the discontented a place to meet and plot the downfall of the monarchy.

COUNTESS 12-11-2010 08:06 PM

Sorry, I am an American, we did the same thing, thank God. Yes, he gave people who were downtrodden a place to gather. The sad thing is that, now, you make it sound like some "dirty" endeavor. It was the right thing to do.

David V 12-12-2010 07:35 AM

It's true that hardcore Legitimists consider the Orleans to be "traitors" because of that. As I said in the other thread, the Orleanists and Bonapartists are those who accepted the French Revolution, its symbols and values, while seeking a "Third Way". Legitimists rejected the symbols and values of the Revolution, even though the Bourbon Restoration did not undo many of the reforms carried out by the First Republic and Napoleon.

Let it be known that the lessons learned from the Revolution are some of the reasons constitutional monarchies continue to exist today.

silverstar 12-12-2010 09:52 AM

Strange that all the ... "Catholic" ... Monarchies of the south of Europe have
fallen... ie Austria... France... Italy. while many of the .... "Protestant" ... Monarchies of northern Europe have survived.
... ie Britain... Denmark... Sweden...

David V 01-03-2011 12:25 AM

What about Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Monaco, Liechtenstein... they're all Catholic. Even some non-European monarchies (e.g. Lesotho) are Catholic too.

Some have likened Napoleon to Alexander the Great, in that both men tried to reconstruct the world around them to their vision. But you could also say this was comparable to Rome- which also evolved from Kingdom to Republic to Empire. But whereas the Roman Empire brought a long period of peace in Europe that would not be surpassed for centuries, the First Republic and First Empire in France did the opposite by plunging Europe into a war. Even though things such as social reforms and constitutionalism came out of that.

A fair amount of what's happened since can be traced to that.

An interesting sidenote is the history of Corsica, the home of the Bonapartes. The Corsicans had risen against Genoese rule in the 18th century and under Pasquale Paoli became an independent republic with a democratic constitution between 1755 and 1769, when it came under French rule. Paoli initially supported the French Revolution but then broke ranks with the revolutionaries, because of the execution of the King. So by 1793, he called an assembly and Corsica declared its independence. It became the Kingdom of Corsica in union with Britain under George III, also with a democratic constitution. This didn't last long, and France retook Corsica. Paoli went to England, where he would spend the remainder of his life.

An Ard Ri 03-13-2011 03:41 PM

Royal Tombs suffered terribly during the Revolution,many of them were lost or destroyed forever.

Its such a shame that mobs were let desecrate priceless pieces of medieval tomb effigies & sculptures.

silverstar 03-13-2011 04:56 PM

They must have also been after valuable artefacts too.. rings,
diadems , etc .. all of which must have appeared on the black market soon after.
I ve often wondered what dececration went on at St Denis .

An Ard Ri 03-13-2011 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstar (Post 1215784)
They must have also been after valuable artefacts too.. rings,
diadems , etc .. all of which must have appeared on the black market soon after.
I ve often wondered what dececration went on at St Denis .

Horrific desecration!

Many tombs were smashed to pieces,others were mutilated by vandals.

The royal vaults were smashed open & the remains of Kings,Queens,Princes & Princesses were dragged from their coffins & dumped in a large pit outside the Abbey Saint Denis .

In August 1793 the following bodies were exhumedOn 12 October,1793

Henri IV
14 October:16 October:17 October:18 October:19 October:20 October:24 October:25 October:18 January 1794 :The tombs of other French Royals in Paris at the Couvent des Jacobins,Couvent des Célestins & Couvent des Cordeliers were all destroyed.Most of them dated from the 1300/1400's :sad:

silverstar 03-13-2011 05:35 PM

Not only in Paris was this going on, but in other parts of France too,
For eg. the tomb of the lovely
Dian de Poitiers was looted on her estate in Anet.

But the scenes in St Denis must have been horrifying and a
desecration of 1000 years of history.
I ve been thinking for a while now of getting together some pics
of St Denis and its history and maybe make a post somewhere.

In Pre Revolutionary days it must have been magnificent and awe inspiring.

An Ard Ri 03-13-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstar (Post 1215800)
Not only in Paris was this going on, but in other parts of France too,
For eg. the tomb of the lovely
Dian de Poitiers was looted on her estate in Anet.

But the scenes in St Denis must have been horrifying and a
desecration of 1000 years of history.
I ve been thinking for a while now of getting together some pics
of St Denis and its history and maybe make a post somewhere.

In Pre Revolutionary days it must have been magnificent and awe inspiring.

Yes that's true,the tombs of the Dukes of Brittany & those of the Queen of Navarre at Vendome were also pillaged & destroyed.

That would be an excellent idea!


Can you imagine what St Denis & those other churches would have looked like if the Revolution had not happened :sad:

silverstar 03-13-2011 06:17 PM

Heres a pic of Marie Antoinette in St Denis... her statue that is..
though I doubt she would have worn a dress so revealing in real life !
Celebheaven • View topic - Marie Antoinette


.

An Ard Ri 03-13-2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverstar (Post 1215814)
Heres a pic of Marie Antoinette in St Denis... her statue that is..
though I doubt she would have worn a dress so revealing in real life !
Celebheaven • View topic - Marie Antoinette


.

That's from her Tomb Effigfy which was erected during the Bourbon Restoration.

I agree the dress is very revealing but possibly an Empire style & not one from M.A. era.

An Ard Ri 10-22-2012 11:06 AM

October 1793 -Desecration of the Royal Burials at the Basilica of St.Denis outside Paris.

Mobs of revolutionaries plundered and sacked the Basilica church.Many tombs were smashed and the royal vaults were broken open where the coffins of the kings,queen,dauphins,princes and princesses lay.The coffins were then opened and the royal remains were then unceremoniously dumped into common pits outside the basilica church.Many of the royal bodies were put on display before being thrown into the mass grave,some had parts removed by ghoulish souvenir hunters. (head of Henri IV,thigh bone of Catherine de Medici,beard of Louis XIII)

Dates of the desecration


August 1793- Philip the Bold,Isabelle d'Aragon,Pepin,Constance of Castile and Louis VI.

October 13th- Henri IV
October 14th- Louis XIII,Louis XIV,Anne of Austria,Maria de Medici,Maria Theresa of Spain,Gaston Duke of Orléans.
October 16th- Henrietta Maria,(wife of Charles I),Philippe duke d'Orléans,Louis XV,Charles V and Jeanne de Bourbon.
October 17th - Charles VI,Isabeau of Bavaria,Charles VIII,Marie d'Anjou,Marguerite de Valois,Francis II,Charles VIII.
October 18th - Henri II,Catherine de Medici,Charles IX,Henri III,Louis XII,Anne of Brittany,Jeanne II of Navarre,Louis X,Jean I,Hugh the Great,Charles II.
October 19th - Philip IV,Dagobert,queen Nantilde
October 20th- Francis I,Claude de France,Louise de Savoie,Louise de France,Charlotte de France,Charles Duke of Orléans and the Dauphin Francis.
October 21st - Philip V,Philip VI.
October 24th- Charles IV
October 25th - Jean II and Louise daughter of Louis XV.




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...aint-Denis.jpg

scooter 10-22-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chabot4me (Post 1058584)
It has fasinated me how the Queen of England is still beloved by the people of her country. I was struck in surprize when Queen Elizabeth came to the state of Virgina, USA and she recieved a royal greeting from the citizens here in the USA. She had traveled to see Williamsburg Va. For the 300 year celabration. It really was something to see, the Queen of England on soil that rebelled against the home land just over 200 years ago. Not just here in the USA but also adored by many of the people. I guess this speaks volumes of the person the Queen is and the hope for the French monarchy.

Yes, I was recently in Williamsburg, and QEII's visit is mentioned on many parts of the Williamsburg experience.

COUNTESS 10-22-2012 08:38 PM

She is a nice, unoffensive lady. She has never had any political influence anywhere in this nation. No one cares about her, except we like the pomp and circumstance that they pay big bucks for, to entertain us. What she has to do with the French Monarchy, I have no idea. The French became a republic and all the problems caused by their monarchy is long past.

silverstar 01-27-2013 01:52 PM

That desecration of St Denis is an awful consequence of the
revolution, goullish too.
I think that graves were being desecrated all over France, for eg the tomb of Diana de Poitiers was looted and destroyed, it was as if the French mob were intent on destroying their own history.
Its a wonder that Versailles was nt set on fire, instead it survived...
(unlike the Tuilleries) ... and is now one of the top tourists honey pots in all
of Europe !

An Ard Ri 01-27-2013 02:51 PM

Most tombs both Royal and from the nobility were looted and destroyed,many of them were splendid examples of medieval and renaissance Funerary art/sculpture.

Though thankfully many of them survived thanks to French archaeologist,Alexandre Lenoir who salvaged and saved many from total destruction.

silverstar 02-14-2013 01:34 PM

Imagine if St Denis was in pristine condition , untouched and undisturbed ..... as it was prior to the revolution, that would be quite something !

An Ard Ri 09-05-2013 01:20 PM

The unfortunate Princess Marie Louise of Savoy better known as the Princess of Lamballe met her brutal end on September 3rd,1792.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Lamballe.png

XeniaCasaraghi 04-26-2014 04:09 PM

I'm looking more into the French Revolution and it had some similarities with the Russian Revolution. Both had weak rulers with unpopular wives who had trouble producing an heir. Both Nicholas and Louis have been described as good men but horrible rulers. Their lack of understanding and distance from the masses caused them to not accept change and lead to their destruction and the destruction of their families; at least Louis' daughter made it out alive.

starofwonder 05-03-2014 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1660736)
I'm looking more into the French Revolution and it had some similarities with the Russian Revolution. Both had weak rulers with unpopular wives who had trouble producing an heir. Both Nicholas and Louis have been described as good men but horrible rulers. Their lack of understanding and distance from the masses caused them to not accept change and lead to their destruction and the destruction of their families; at least Louis' daughter made it out alive.

perhaps it was the same secret forces ( masonry ? ) that were behind both of these revolutions .

A Royal ... female... hate figure is common to both .

starofwonder 08-12-2014 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chabot4me (Post 1058584)
I was struck in surprize when Queen Elizabeth came to the state of Virgina, USA and she recieved a royal greeting from the citizens here in the USA. She had traveled to see Williamsburg Va. For the 300 year celabration. It really was something to see, the Queen of England on soil that rebelled against the home land just over 200 years ago.

some years ago there was a royal visit to
Germany... which, considering recent history... is even more remarkable !

starofwonder 08-12-2014 04:37 PM

Thinking about it, you d think that the mob would have
looted the Palace of Versailles... when they had the upper hand ...

maybe they did, but Ive never read anything about it .

AristoCat 08-12-2014 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi (Post 1660736)
I'm looking more into the French Revolution and it had some similarities with the Russian Revolution. Both had weak rulers with unpopular wives who had trouble producing an heir. Both Nicholas and Louis have been described as good men but horrible rulers. Their lack of understanding and distance from the masses caused them to not accept change and lead to their destruction and the destruction of their families; at least Louis' daughter made it out alive.

Another interesting fact:

Both Louis and Nicholas II had wives that were of German origin and were profoundly hated to the point of being made a scapegoat.

wyevale 08-12-2014 04:52 PM

Starofwonder - Versailles escaped looting, as the Parisian mob brought the Royal Family back to Paris with them 'under their protection' ..[ i.e imprisoned them..]
As a result the focus of hatred moved from Versailles to the Tuileries [the residence of the Royal Family in Paris] which was indeed attacked and looted on the 10th August 1792, just days before the Monarchy was abolished and France became a Republic.

Moonmaiden23 08-12-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AristoCat (Post 1694916)
Another interesting fact:

Both Louis and Nicholas II had wives that were of German origin and were profoundly hated to the point of being made a scapegoat.

Yes, that is true. And the bodies of both families were desecrated after they were murdered, yet had monuments or churches consecrated to their memory years later.

So many similarities:sad:.

starofwonder 08-12-2014 05:39 PM

I dont remember any mention of desecrating Marie Antoinettes body, she was just unceremoniously dumped at the graveyard with other bodiesto be buried and a young Mme Tussaud appeared to take her death mask .

XeniaCasaraghi 08-12-2014 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AristoCat (Post 1694916)
Another interesting fact:

Both Louis and Nicholas II had wives that were of German origin and were profoundly hated to the point of being made a scapegoat.

Thats true I would add easy scapegoats, I don't recall reading if Alexandra had any hate directed towards her specifically being German at least not until the war, and by that time too many people hated her for other reasons that her heritage was just lumped on top. Marie, poor thing, had the unfortunate fate of being the symbol of an alliance with an old enemy.
Man I would love to read up on some of the historical bigotry German royals had to live with while Marrying into the families of EU.

I also don't recall desecration of Marie's body, anyone have any further info.

starofwonder 08-17-2014 06:07 PM

It is surprising to me that in all that chaos with mobs roaming the streets and the breakdown in law and order, that the Parisian mob did nt decide to go to Versailles and do a bit of looting.

The Royal Family left for Paris in the autumn of 1789 so that vast palace complex... full of paintings, gold clocks... all manner of valuable items was wide open for the taking .... only 20 or so miles from Paris .
Did the sans cullots miss a trick ?

An Ard Ri 09-03-2014 05:47 PM

The unfortunate and tragic Princess of Lamballe met her grisly end the 3rd of September 1792.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_hVY0Xgqg

An Ard Ri 09-03-2014 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starofwonder (Post 1695890)
It is surprising to me that in all that chaos with mobs roaming the streets and the breakdown in law and order, that the Parisian mob did nt decide to go to Versailles and do a bit of looting.

The Royal Family left for Paris in the autumn of 1789 so that vast palace complex... full of paintings, gold clocks... all manner of valuable items was wide open for the taking .... only 20 or so miles from Paris .
Did the sans cullots miss a trick ?

Surprisingly there was very little looting most of the contents were sold off at various auctions following October 1789.

starofwonder 09-03-2014 07:22 PM

I dare say a fair no of items from those sales ended up
in the stately homes of England !

CyrilVladisla 03-07-2020 03:17 PM

Victory celebration by the populace at the royal palace in Paris at the time of the Revolution
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-vic...-29548705.html


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