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cepe 08-13-2013 07:01 PM

If it is a peer, ie Duke of Bedford, the HRH would probably call him "Bedford" if he knows him. Otherwise, I don't think he would call him anything.

If it is a Baronet/Knight, ie Sir John Moore, then he would call him Sir John.

Addressing women - it would be First Name if he knew her; Your Grace if he didn't

NGalitzine 08-13-2013 08:35 PM

^^^^
I can think of more than a few corporate enviroments where the CEO might address someone lower on the corporate flow chart by their first name but they would call him Mr Smith. I have been in homes in NYC where the homeowners address their maid by the first name and the maid calls their employers as Mrs Jones. I heard the President of the US refer to people by their first name and they respond with Mr President. Class distinctions exist everywhere. As much as people might like to think we are all equal we are all not equal.

COUNTESS 08-13-2013 10:54 PM

Mr. President is just that. You Highness or Majesty is a reflection of some time past when someone was so far above you, just by the words. Mr. Streetcar Conductor is the same as Mr. President. It is a job title. Yes, I have heard maids referred to as Kathy or such. I have,also, heard maids say yes Don or Jim or Marilyn. It depends on the person. CEO's earned their positions, hopefully. HRH are just born to that title.

Ish 08-13-2013 10:59 PM

Yes, because dedicating her life to her country and working for it for 60 years clearly isn't enough to have earned the Queen a bit of respect.

Iluvbertie 08-13-2013 11:13 PM

Why not call them by their first name - as they are equal to you. If they don't like it then they obviously have no respect for you.

Skippyboo 08-13-2013 11:21 PM

On a engagement, there is someone there to make introductions. It is usually The Lord lieutenant of the county that the royals are visiting. At receptions, there is a member of the royal household telling who the royal is meeting in a receiving line. There was a photo of Kate meeting the commonwealth and realms PMs and GGs during the afternoon reception after the royal wedding. The leaders are all lined up and Jamie Lowther Pinkerton is introducing the leaders to Kate. William was doing the same thing after her with his own guy for introductions.

I won't think that someone working at the White House or BP is going to address the President or the Queen as Barack or Liz. That is different than the CEO of Amazon. I see the president of my company occasionally in the hall and I used his first name, but I wouldn't do that to the US President or the Pope or to a police officer pulling my car over for a ticket.

NGalitzine 08-13-2013 11:56 PM

I think people need to get over this idea that we are all equal. It has never been true in history and it is not true now.
If you are born a blonde blue eyed male you have won the genetic lottery and doors will open to you.
If you are born to a middle class white family in the suburbs with a mommy and daddy that stayed married and gave you a healthy home and a good education you will have many advantages that would not come to you if you were born to a mother of colour crack addict in the ghetto.
If you are born to a family that has had money for generations and sent you to all the right schools you will have positions and advantages that even the most gifted might never achieve.
If you are able to raise billions of dollars you may be able to get yourself elected President of the USA while someone more talented more qualified might be lucky to get themselves elected County Clerk because they cannot raise the needed funds.
People are just not equal and it does start at birth. It is just the way life is.
Some societies can claim to be meritocracies but that is more illusion than reality. Even countries that claim to poo poo titles seem to hand them out pretty easily "King of Swing", "Sultan of Swat". "Count Basie", "Duke Ellington", John "Duke" Wayne, King of Pop, Queen of Soul and of course some families even adopt regnal numbers "John D Rockefeller IV" or they allow their former public servants to retain titles like Ambassador, Governor, Senator long after they have left office and continue to be addressed by those titles for the rest of their lives. A glance at a White House state dinner guest list will reveal a considerable number of patriotic Americans listed as The Honorable Mr and Mrs not just plain egalitarian Mr and Mrs.

yvr girl 08-14-2013 01:39 AM

In her biography, Cherie Blair told of an instance when she was called Mrs. Blair by the Princess Royal. She told Princess Anne to call her, "Cherie" and Anne replied, "I'd rather not."

Jacknch 08-14-2013 03:57 PM

I think it is important to remember that the position of head of state of a country deserves the highest respect and regard (in most cases) and even though the person in that position is as equal to anyone else, the office they hold is not.

A royal head of state is "majesty" and a none royal head of state is "excellency". "Mr President" is the same as "Ma'am".

One calls ones headmaster "sir", one calls one's queen "Ma'am" and one would imagine that ones president should be "sir" or maybe "Mr President" - either way they are titles and names and honours that go more with the position of office rather than the individual person.

As a human, the Queen's life is as valuable as anyone elses, her role is as valuable to me as a doctors might be. We never call her by her name, because that is disrespectful to her office rather than to herself. We call out "Charles!" to get the attention of the Prince of Wales because he does not hold the office of head of state yet.

I would bow to the American President because his office is the highest in the land and as the human embodiment of that office he deserves my respect - I may not like him or her, I may be as equal as him (although if caught in a riot I know he'd be whisked away and I'd be left there standing!)

Titles, honours, names, ranks - they can all exist and can all be regarded highly and used legitimately without people putting themselves above everyone else by presuming a rank and title affects human equality - because it does not and it is a disingenuous myth to say that it does!

BTW, Princess Anne's comment - I love it! Reminds of when a photographer shouted at her to turn round towards the camera - "over here love" he said. She retorted, "I am not your love, I am your royal highness!".

sarahedwards2 08-14-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1588668)
BTW, Princess Anne's comment - I love it! Reminds of when a photographer shouted at her to turn round towards the camera - "over here love" he said. She retorted, "I am not your love, I am your royal highness!".

Oh, Anne - she's just like her father!

Warren 08-16-2013 09:25 PM

The socio-political analysis of the present-day United States has been removed as having no relevance to the topic of Protocol & Etiquette.

Members who fundamentally disagree with the very idea of titles and royal protocols etc should do so in Members' Corner, or at a different website altogether, and not disrupt these threads for those members who do wish to discuss the finer details.

thanks,

Warren
Admin

MarriedtoaScot 08-29-2013 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COUNTESS (Post 1588440)
Mr. President is just that. You Highness or Majesty is a reflection of some time past when someone was so far above you, just by the words. Mr. Streetcar Conductor is the same as Mr. President. It is a job title. Yes, I have heard maids referred to as Kathy or such. I have,also, heard maids say yes Don or Jim or Marilyn. It depends on the person. CEO's earned their positions, hopefully. HRH are just born to that title.

There is no style with the office of President of the US. This was by design by George Washington. It's just Mr. President. History tells is that this was actually a point of contention between GW and John Adams. Apparently JA presented to GW a whole lost of potential styles and titles. And Washington thought it was all just silly so it was just Mr. President... I always thought that was funny..... Now its a tradition.

Every other Federal elected office, and time appointed by the President to office have the style "honorable". Very boring but simple.

USCtrojan 08-29-2013 10:04 PM

I kinda like "Mr President"

NGalitzine 08-29-2013 10:25 PM

Actually when the President of the United States addresses the UN General Assembly he is introduced as His Excellency The President of the United States

Warren 08-30-2013 03:54 PM

:previous:
In other words, he has a title and a style. Just like Her Majesty The Queen. :smile:

BrazilianEmpire 08-30-2013 04:08 PM

According to Wikipedia, the President of the United State have three different styles:

1. Mr. President (informal).
2. The Honorable (formal).
3. His Excelency (diplomatic, outside the U.S.).

President of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Much more complicated than The Queen, who is just Her Majesty.

carlota 04-04-2014 05:16 PM

i'm interested in this picture from the swedish royal visit to netherlands.

Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image

in the picture you can see that while maxima and CG's glasses don't touch, silvia's and WA's do. i got told it was improper to cling glasses while toasting. which one is the correct way?

amaryllus 04-22-2014 07:20 PM

Royal Protocol and Royal Children
 
Specifically, The ten and under set....bearing in mind this is 2014 not 1814, How does the maid or gardener address a 5 year old heir or heiress? Even in the more liberal Royal families is a certain amount of deference expected or is informality encouraged now?

For the older children like the Duchess of Brabant or Catherina Amalia, who know who they are, so to speak, do you think they would be unsettled by a rude or overly close staff member?

Osipi 04-22-2014 07:29 PM

Oh this is a very good question! I have no clue what the answer is and looking forward to learning what the answer is.
Somehow I just can't picture a nanny calling a 9 month old George "Sir".

amaryllus 04-22-2014 07:36 PM

It's been on my mind for a while... George or Estelle called 'your royal highness' by a 60 year old official sounds archaic but surely 12 year old Elizabeth of Belgium is not called 'lizzie' or 'kid' by the maids either!


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