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leyla 11-19-2002 09:42 AM

hello everyone... just discovered this forum. living in monaco i think i can contribute somewhat to this topic.
today is prince rainiers celebration and its a national holiday.. i got invited to the annual concert by request of his serene highness and i am all excited!!! :lol:

few days ago there was a tennis tournament where we were a sponsor and prince albert was great.. he played a double with john mcenroe and won : YAYYYYYYYY :rolleyes:

Lorraine 11-19-2002 10:01 AM

Hey Leyla,

How are you? WELCOME to the forum :D I am soooo glad that you live in Monaco and yes, thats means we will have the latest news, info an just about anything from Monaco. Are you a Prince Albert fan? :D

I hope you have a nice evening. Take care and have fun. :D

Lorissa :D

leyla 11-19-2002 10:02 AM

hiii :)

i am not a fan. i just really like him because hes fun and so down to earth!!
will let you know about tonight!!

leyla 11-19-2002 08:44 PM

okay just came back from : la fête du prince!

it was a superb concert called : la perichola by OFFENBACH

Prince ALbert was there as well as his sister Princess Caroline and her husband Prince Ernst AUgust.
Prince Rainier is sick :(

anyway everyone was dressed in their national uniforms (the men of course) and it was really enjoyable to be part of that! :)


Jacqueline 11-20-2002 12:07 PM

Hey Galisteo. I love the new avatar. :)

The news reports that I have seen say that Prince Rainier is going to recover and that it is not an illness that should alarm anyone. I posted another thread about this containing an article from Yahoo.

Lorraine 11-20-2002 12:08 PM

Hey Galisteo and Leyla,

How are you two? Thanks Leyla for the information and i really hope that Prince Rainer will recover soon. Galisteo we had some host problems as many complained that it was slow so we had to move it over quickly. I hope and will make sure this is our final and permanent destination. Glad to see you back as I miss you very much and your great insights. :D :D :D

I hope you two have a wonderful day or evening. have fun and take care. :heart: :heart: :heart:

leyla 11-20-2002 06:43 PM

prince rainier is recovering but he is quite old and wasnt feeling well before that anyway.
prince albert has been in charge of the country for years now. he's doing everything!! its just not official yet and the problem is (what people here are discussing anyway) that prince rainier is scared to let someone else take over.... however he should give albert the power while he is alive so he can still be an advisor to him in the beginning!!

today, on the busiest street in monaco, a jeweler was robbed :o . 3 thieves came into the store and sprayed some gas and hit the owner. then caught some jewelry and ran out. i was on my way home (i live on this street) and police had blocked the street. what a drama. and they still havent caught them.. quite frightening! :cry:

Jacqueline 11-20-2002 07:35 PM

Oh my goodness! Leyla! I cannot believe that. :shock: :shock: I have been to Monaco several times and the security is some of the best in the world. I once lost my wallet while I was messing in my bags and it was returned to me in nearly fifteen minutes. Unbelievable. I do hope that they catch the thieves and that you feel better and more secure. I am sorry to hear about Monaco of all places. :cry:

I agree with you that Prince Rainier could let Prince Albert take over now and be his advisor. Prince Albert is honestly doing everything as it is now.

leyla 11-20-2002 08:55 PM

will keep you posted with the updates :o

leyla 11-21-2002 07:49 AM

IMO its all been a setup........ his wife is very dodgy!!!!

galisteo 11-21-2002 04:38 PM

Leyla, your information is so interesting! I have a couple more questions, you said that Albert is already running things, but Rainer is afraid to let him officially take over. Why do the papers I read always mention Rainer wants him married first. Do you think that is an issue to Rainer or not? Do the people of Monaco believe Albert will marry one day? :heart: Since I'm from the U.S., I get less info.

Hey Lorissa and Jacqueline - good to see you guys!!

leyla 11-21-2002 08:30 PM

hi galisteo :)

well of course everyone wants albert to get married but he is so cool right now that he would only do a big mistake if he did get married now.
maybe that'll make things easier in regards to his power taking ... but his personal life is more important.
you know albert takes the piss of all the 'cheap' girls who surround him. i am quite lucky to know these things. he literally finds them amusing cause they are just at his feet and its so obvious its just because hes a prince. anyway i think hes amazing and he would be a great ruler!!

i adore him :heart:

Jacqueline 11-21-2002 10:17 PM

I am glad as well that Prince Albert can spot the women are complete users. I would really hate to see him end up with someone who isn't genuine and who just is not a very good person.

Jacqueline 11-23-2002 01:25 AM

Okay, it's not exactly hot news, but it is news from Monaco and anything involving Monaco usually has at least a little something to do with the Royal Family and of course, our beloved Prince Al. :D :heart: :D :heart:

Monaco: If you build it, they will come
Thursday, November 21, 2002 Posted: 1:42 PM EST (1842 GMT)

*Tugboats pushed a 160,000-ton floating dock, the biggest of its kind in the world, from southern Spain to Monaco in August. The complex was put in place mostly in September.

MONACO (AP) -- Monaco had a headache only a princedom could gripe about: its postcard-perfect harbor was too small to host huge yachts and cruise liners.

So the wealthy Riviera enclave came up with a princely solution -- a $328 million floating breakwater longer than a football field.

The project may seem grandiose for a country smaller than New York's Central Park. But this enclave of wealth, wedged between the mountains and the Mediterranean, has been on a building craze for a half century.

Since Prince Rainier III assumed the throne in 1949, Monaco has expanded its territory by 20 percent with land reclamation. It has built a whole new port, an artificial beach, a sparkling culture center and an underground railway station.

The new breakwater is on a par with its predecessors.

Luring leisure boats
Built by a consortium that includes Spain's Grupo Dragados of Madrid, the dike complex -- put in place mostly in September -- will do more than still the waters for the wealthy. It also will include parking for 350 cars, rows of shops, ventilation and elevators.

"We can be proud of the work being accomplished here," Rainier enthused during a recent tour. "The new configuration of the port will open up new paths to economic development for our country."

The complex includes a 21/2-acre platform, a 145-yard jetty and a new quay. The centerpiece is a 352-yard-long floating breakwater constructed at a dry dock in Algeciras, Spain, and towed through the Mediterranean in August.

Dragados says the breakwater is the largest in the world not grounded into the seabed. With water in the port more than 165 feet deep, the floating dike will be anchored to the seafloor with cables.

The project adds 15 acres of harbor to Monaco's pristine 40-acre port, an addition of nearly 40 percent, and is designed to last 100 years, Grupo Dragados says. Monaco officials say the project is both economical and environmentally sound.

The princedom has little choice but to reach to the sea. Nestled on a steep, stony hillside in southeastern France not far from Italy, the tiny country is blanketed by high rises, elegant mansions, hotels and restaurants.

"The aim is to make Monaco one of the largest harbors for leisure boats," said Rene Bouchet, an engineer with the Department of Public Works.

Lifestyles of the rich and famous
If there's anywhere yachts and cruise liners should park, it's Monaco.

The tiny territory doesn't publish much economic information, but its gross domestic product is estimated by the U.S. government and others at $870 million -- about $27,000 for each of its 32,000 residents. That's among the highest per capita figures in the world.

Monaco has always been a magnet for wealth. The almost nonexistent income taxes and secretive banking system create a haven for people with money, while the luxurious Monte Carlo casino and clubs give them plenty to spend it on.

The territory has seen its fair share of celebrity. The late American actress Grace Kelly made history when she gave up a Hollywood career to marry Rainier in 1956.

Today, stars like former Swedish tennis great Bjorn Borg reap the benefits of the princedom's tax policies. And every spring, the streets of the principality are turned into a raceway for the Monte Carlo Grand Prix.

Rainier has overseen a diversification into finance, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and high-tech industries. But tourists are still a major moneymaker, and the government is always looking for ways to attract more.

Next stop: Venice
The harbor project has overcome several obstacles.

Foremost was an engineering problem: how to build a dike in water so deep. Monaco is so proud of the floating breakwater design -- based on techniques used in offshore oil rigs -- that the principality has a patent on it.

David Lopez, who runs Dragado's Monaco operations, said other technical challenges included making the dike impermeable and ensuring it was strong enough to last a century while light enough to float.

"We're talking about a structure of 175,000 tons," he said.

Some of the draft plans for the project were even more elaborate than what was eventually built. For example, some in Monaco wanted to build residential high rises on the breakwater, but that was deemed unfeasible.

Studies for the complex began in 1985, but arranging contracts and financing kept work from starting until 1999. It is expected to be finished in 2007.

Authorities are still squabbling about the price. Dragados originally bid about $52.2 million for the floating breakwater, but now is asking $151 million. The two sides are negotiating.

"The work we constructed ... is not the same work that had been initially designed," said Lopez.

In the meantime, Monegasques are busy dreaming up the next big-ticket item. The latest proposal is to build a full-size model of Venice on an island of reclaimed land in the bay and connect it to the mainland with a bridge.

Bouchet, the public works engineer, is all for it.

"From the point of view of technology it is not utopian," he said.

Jacqueline 12-01-2002 04:31 PM

Hi Galisteo. Thanks for trying, and please let us know if you can ever get the article to come up again. Honestly, it's just as well. It deserved disappear into cybersace. ;) Monaco, a negative place :question: I approve of any place with no income tax. :D

Julia 12-12-2002 02:30 AM

Hey Jacqueline! Thanks for the updates and for the's great to know what is going on in the principality!


Julia 12-21-2002 06:32 PM

Thanks galisteo and Jacqueline for the pics and the articles! It is terrific to see Stephanie and Rainier working along side one another....nice to see Rainier looking a bit better, as well.

Stephanie seems to be enjoying her royal duties more these days....:)

Happy Holidays and thank you!!


Julia 01-06-2003 04:02 AM

The change to the succession laws in 2002
A law of 2 April 2002 modified article 10. Adoption is now ruled out, and the succession passes, upon death or abdication, to the direct legitimate descent of the previous prince, failing which to his siblings and their descent, failing which to a collateral heir chosen by the Regency Council and the Crown Council in agreement (the composition of the Crown Council is set in art. 75 of the constitution and includes 7 members appointed for 3 years, 4 nominated by the Prince and 3 by the legislature; the composition of the Regency Council is determined by the House laws).

Thus, if Albert succeeds, the throne can now pass after him to his sisters and their children. The new law, however, restricts succession to persons holding Monegasque citizenship at the time of the demise of the previous prince. Laws governing Monegasque citizenship (which is no longer defined in the Constitution) should be promulgated soon.

Although the event is very unlikely, should Rainier die or abdicate with no surviving issue, then the crown passes automatically to his sister Antoinette or her surviving issue. Should One of Rainier's children or grandchildren succeed him, then Antoinette and her issue cease to be automatically in the line of succession, but they remain potential heirs in the event of Rainier's line dying out completely.

At present, the order of succession (ignoring the restriction to persons who are Monegasque citizens at the time of the demise of the crown) is thus:

HSH Prince Albert, Hereditary Prince, (b. 14 March 1958) marquis des Baux by ordinance of March 16, 1958
HRH the Princess of Hanover (Princess Caroline, b. 23 Jan 1957), widow of Stefano Casiraghi (1960-90)
Andrea Casiraghi (b. 8 Jun 1984)
Pierre Casiraghi (b. 5 Sep 1987)
Charlotte Casiraghi (b. 3 Aug 1986)
Alexandra of Hanover (b. 20 July 1999)
HSH Princess Stephanie (b. 1 Feb 1965), married June 1995 to Daniel Ducruet (b. 1964)
Louis Ducruet (b. 26 Nov 1992)
Pauline Ducruet (b. 4 May 1994)
HSH Princess Antoinette (b. 28 Dec 1920)
Christian de Massy (b. 17 Jan 1949)
Brice de Massy (b. 1988)
Antoine de Massy (b. 1997)
Laetizia de Massy (b. 1971)
Elizabeth-Ann de Massy (b. 1947)
Jean-Léonard Taubert Natta (b. 1974)
Mélanie de Lusignan (b. 1985)
Keith Sebastian Knecht (b. 1972)
Although Stephanie's children were born before her marriage, Monegasque civil law, like French law, provides that natural children are fully and completely legitimized by the marriage of their parents (article 227 of the Monegasque Civil Code states in part: "Les enfants nés hors mariage, autres que les enfants adultérins, sont légitimés par le mariage subséquent de leurs père et mère, lorsque ceux-ci les ont légalement reconnus avant leur mariage ou qu'ils les reconnaissent au moment de la célébration." while art. 229 states: "Les enfants légitimés par le mariage subséquent auront les mêmes droits que s'ils étaient nés de ce mariage"). They are thus apt to succeed. Stéphanie's last child Camille Marie Kelly Grimaldi (b. 15 Jul 1998) of undeclared father, is not (yet) legitimate and thus not in line.

Rainier III's sister is HSH Princess Antoinette, born Antoinette Grimaldi, who had three children, by Alexandre Noghès: Elisabeth-Ann (b. 1947), Christian (b. 1949), Christine (1951-89), They were legitimated by the marriage of their parents in 1951. They were named at birth Grimaldi, but by ordinance of November 15, 1951 their names were all changed to "de Massy" (source: Christian de Massy: Palace: my life in the royal family of Monaco. London: Bodley Head, 1986). They all had issue. They and their issue of monegasque nationality could be chosen as successors in case a reigning prince dies or abdicates without issue and without siblings having issue. However, they cannot be placed in an order of succession, since the choice of which collateral heir would be called to the throne is entirely up to the Regency Council and the Crown Council.

The House Law of 29 May 2002 provides additional regulations. The prince can abdicate. The heir (apparent or presumptive) is called Hereditary Prince. The hereditary prince can renounce his rights in writing. Marriages of members of the family must be approved by the prince; if a member marries without approval, he and his issue are excluded from the succession, unless the marriage ends without any issue before a demise of the crown. The house law also provides in detail for regencies.

samitude 01-06-2003 10:48 AM

So if Albert marries and has a daughter first will his daughter become the next heir or will it be a son that takes priority over the daughter?

Julia 01-06-2003 03:01 PM

Very good question, Sylvia. I think, and this is purely a guess (if anyone else knows the answer please tell us!), that if a girl were the first child of Albert that she would be the heir until a son was born. It is just a guess.

Jacqueline, galisteo, everyone else, what do you think?


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