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-   -   Should Japan abolish the monarchy? (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f68/should-japan-abolish-the-monarchy-19831.html)

David V 06-09-2010 12:02 PM

I would counter, that the Imperial Family serves as a unifying symbol to look up to, above the machinations of politics and business, and in challenging times for a country people always rally towards traditional and cherished institutions.

Lumutqueen 06-09-2010 12:25 PM

I do not think it should abolish the monarchy.
I couldn't imagine the country without the imperial family.

David V 06-09-2010 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1091228)
I do not think it should abolish the monarchy.
I couldn't imagine the country without the imperial family.

Amen. The same could be said for many other countries.

Rascal 06-09-2010 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David V (Post 1091217)
I would counter, that the Imperial Family serves as a unifying symbol to look up to, above the machinations of politics and business, and in challenging times for a country people always rally towards traditional and cherished institutions.

I definitely agree with you, David. My concern is that this is an ideal and limited to the older generation. As less and less of the people are acquainted with the Imperial Family, that family becomes a non-entity, making this function non-existent as well.

Obviously as part of this forum, I am in full support of the monarchy. I just feel that in regard to the Japanese, the Imperial Family needs to start making some decisions for themselves, rather than turning over all of their power, and-as I said before-I suspect a great deal of money to the IHA, who then have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Your point is valid about what I believe to be the most important function of a monarchy. I hope the IHA recognizes that this function is not being met with the Imperial Family because of it's (IHA's) own restrictive and some would say oppressive behavior.

Al_bina 06-09-2010 01:28 PM

It has been interesting to read the discussion.
The Japanese culture and society is far more complex and sophisticated than anyone could imagine. It is not just about younger generations not knowing the members of the Imperial family. There were multiple occasions when the Japanese Imperial family could have been abolished and replaced with something more western modern, shall we say. Yet the Imperial family proved its usefulness of reviving the Japanese as a society and serving as a symbol of unity and traditions, which helped the country to become an industrial super-power. The IHA courtiers appear to be rigid in many aspects related to the Imperial family. However, they are no different than other courtiers that engage into playing open democratic monarchies in Europe, thereby keeping their subjects happy with an illusion of the democratic monarchy. Furthermore, I would say that Asian courtiers 1) do much better job of maintaining the prestige of and mystique surrounding the royal families and 2) will adapt to the spirit of times as it has been proven by Japan time and again. I am sure necessary changes will be introduced. The Japanese are adept at finely attuning any system and making it operate flawlessly.

Rascal 06-09-2010 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 1091256)
Furthermore, I would say that Asian courtiers 1) do much better job of maintaining the prestige of and mystique surrounding the royal families and 2) will adapt to the spirit of times as it has been proven by Japan time and again. I am sure necessary changes will be introduced. The Japanese are adept at finely attuning any system and making it operate flawlessly.

Overall I believe you are correct Al_bina, particularly with you last sentence. The statements prior that I quoted I believe were true in the previous generation as they had to make the transition of Hirohito from God-like status to human, deal with the first commoner to wed into the royal family and with Michiko's emotional adjustments. Perhaps there were more skilled members of the IHA then. We won't know because there is no public listing of who is in this organization, nor who is responsible for the decisions made by it.

The current IHA, IMHO has dropped the ball many times in protecting the prestige of the Imperial Family. Knowing the person Masako was before becoming Crown Princess and who she has become since is the best example to show how counterproductive and anti-progressive their methods and decisions are (I know...I know...Masako is probably a bit of a drama queen and difficult to handle, but again if you compare to before the wedding, these traits surfaced/developed from the restrictive IHA...much like her mother-in-law experience with the oppressive royal court).

In addition, their handling of the succession "crisis" was laughable in the amount of time it went on, the "convenient" pregnancy of Kiko (does anyone really think Hisahito isn't genetically engineered?), and the complete disregard for history (other Japanese empresses) and simple biology (males determining gender in offspring).

Finally, the choice of Naruhito to publicly criticize the IHA and the court for treatment of his wife, and the response from the court, IHA, Emperor and Akishino only served to scandalize the family more and bring the prestige even further down.

The only member of the Imperial Family that had not been touched by scandal was Princess Sayako, and - according to the progressive philosophy of the IHA - they followed the very progressive precedent of stripping her of her titles just because she married. But they were so kind to give her instructions on how to use appliances and go grocery shopping. VERY forward thinking on their part.

And as far as the "mystique" of the Imperial Family...it is something that is supposed to give you just enough to want to know more because you are curious or interested. Most people want to know more because it is so secretive and closed off that they speculate on the rigidity and oppressiveness. That isn't "mystique"...it is "isolation". Even with the Japanese people, they have lowered the amount of curiosity and respect for the Imperial Family. So I would have to disagree that they have done a good job. I think they have failed to recognize the amount of change in the world in the last 30-40 years and now they (the IHA-whoever they are) just look ridiculous.

Princejohnny25 06-09-2010 07:20 PM

I have to agree with nearly everything that Rascal said. I have complete apathy for the Japanese Imperial Family and the current monarchy. I love Japan, Modern Japan and its History. But If I were to go to Japan, which I really want to do, visiting the Palace or trying to see a member of the Imperial Family are not on my list of things to do. I just don't care enough about them. Like Rascal said, this apathy can turn to annoyance easily. The Imperial Family and IHA need to find a way to endear themselves to modern Japan otherwise a historical and national treasure will be lost.

So, no, I don't want the monarchy abolished but I may just happen and I'm not entirely sure I would care either way.

Hereditary Thane 06-09-2010 08:56 PM

The defeated Japanese elite asked only one thing of the victorious Americans: that they be allowed to keep their monarchy. The former emperor was reluctant to challenge the militarists, the present mikado is even less predisposed to tackling the inertia and arrogance of the IHA. Either the imperial family are of low inrellect, or as I believe, are quite comfortable and amenable in their ivory tower. As for the Japanese people; do not confuse respect and deference with affection.

RJ TAYLER 06-10-2010 07:20 AM

I will give probably a short and clear answer to the aforementioned question. NO!

Rascal 06-10-2010 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ TAYLER (Post 1091520)
I will give probably a short and clear answer to the aforementioned question. NO!

LOL RJ! :lol: Wish I had your brevity!

Al_bina 06-10-2010 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hereditary Thane (Post 1091416)
The defeated Japanese elite asked only one thing of the victorious Americans: that they be allowed to keep their monarchy. The former emperor was reluctant to challenge the militarists, the present mikado is even less predisposed to tackling the inertia and arrogance of the IHA. Either the imperial family are of low inrellect, or as I believe, are quite comfortable and amenable in their ivory tower. As for the Japanese people; do not confuse respect and deference with affection.

First and foremost, I strongly doubt the Japanese Imperial family are of low intellect. Furthermore, I dare to assume that all royal families are "quite comfortable and amenable in their ivory tower". When it comes to Asian courtiers, they tend to be highly effective in tackling issues they encounter.

RoyalistRiley 06-10-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David V (Post 1091217)
I would counter, that the Imperial Family serves as a unifying symbol to look up to, above the machinations of politics and business, and in challenging times for a country people always rally towards traditional and cherished institutions.

And that is what makes monarchy special, regardless of whether it be in Japan or elsewhere.

White Princess 06-12-2010 03:14 AM

No, it shouldn't. For the same reason of all other monarchies: it is good to the country. But they should change succession laws to allow women to become reigning empress.

Kasumi 06-12-2010 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hereditary Thane (Post 1091416)
The former emperor was reluctant to challenge the militarists...

HIM Emperor Showa was not reluctant to stripe all imperial ranks from his own relatives. October 28th 1947 the families of 12 Imperial Princes and their families (122 persons in total) lost their titles and their rights of succession.
Princes yesterday, commoners today - from Corbis
Emperor Showa reserved the throne for himself and his immediate children only to avoid the military criminal trial for himself. The Emperor is impossible to jail or execute, but a private person is.
I am so sorry for all the Imperial Princesses who have lost their titles and rights because of Showa's unwise decision.

Kasumi 09-09-2010 03:20 PM

Democratic Party of Japan heavyweight Ichiro Ozawa held press conference ahead of Tuesday's DPJ presidential election.
Commenting on whether the now male-only Chrysanthemum Throne should be opened to females, Ozawa said: "It don't think it is unnatural for women to become the (reigning) empress. There is no need to restrict the succession to men." - Japan Times

RubyPrincess168 09-11-2010 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal (Post 1091249)
Obviously as part of this forum, I am in full support of the monarchy. I just feel that in regard to the Japanese, the Imperial Family needs to start making some decisions for themselves, rather than turning over all of their power, and-as I said before-I suspect a great deal of money to the IHA, who then have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Your point is valid about what I believe to be the most important function of a monarchy. I hope the IHA recognizes that this function is not being met with the Imperial Family because of it's (IHA's) own restrictive and some would say oppressive behavior.

I don't think the monarchy should be abolished, but the IHA certainly can be! I don't understand the Imperial Family giving another person/agency the keys to lock you in a gilded cage/restricted lifestyle. Get rid of the IHA and start living a more normal or modern royal life.

iamtheoneandonly 11-08-2010 05:28 PM

IMO it will be up to the Japanese nationals upon whom the sovereignty of that country dwell. Yes, however, it will be good to bring about some reform in the IHA. The Japanese Imperial House had been imprisoned in Kyoto for such a long time until the Meiji era started that it is nothing new to them to be locked up inside their palace. Having said that, for their sake, it will be good if they can be given more freedom. 右翼団体 Uyoku dantai (right wing groups) are the ones who put people off from the Imperial House, I reckon. They are such horrid jingoistic thugs, no different from the Euronat, the BNP, Front National etc.. They always talk about the Yasukuni stuff and so xenophobic. This reminds me of the Yunohana Onsen incident in which white persons were refused their entry to this onsen (hot spring) in Otaru, Hokkaido.

I always think it is strange that in Japan those thugs are monarchist at the same time when they are ultra-nationalists. Here in the West, Danish, British or Spanish or whatever, we can be royalist without being xenophobic ultra-fascists but over there in Japan, for some reason, the ultra-nationalism and the monarchism go hand in hand. Oh, I do think those uyoku dantai spoil the image of the Japanese Imperial House.

Anyway, it seems as if the Japanese right want to keep the image of the Imperial Family according to their own version of what they should be like. Look at the members of the Japanese royalty. When you see Mary the Crown Princess of Denmark or Maxima of the Netherlands, then, you look at the Japanese royal women. Their fashion sense is just so awful. They could do with a very good stylist IMO. Michiko is the only person who looks reasonable, but, even her, she doesn't seem to get rid of her so-unfashionable small hats. Oh, and, the Japanese ladies-in-waiting wear such horrid dresses, too. They just look so dreadful. They don't have to be the dedicated followers of the Milan fashion week or the London collection but they could do with a bit of up-dating in what they wear.

LadyDiana 11-08-2010 10:25 PM

I was stationed in Japan for two years, and I never bothered to go to Tokyo, wish I would have. Didn't figure out til maybe a year in that they had an Imperial Family.

iamtheoneandonly 11-09-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyDiana (Post 1157167)
I was stationed in Japan for two years, and I never bothered to go to Tokyo, wish I would have. Didn't figure out til maybe a year in that they had an Imperial Family.

Well, the Japanese Imperial Family are not as open as that of the UK (which is more closed in comparison with some of the European royal houses) and some of the royal families of Europe that one does not really see them on TV etc, I suppose.

Oh, is this really true that some American people just think that Japan is one of the American states because it is called the State of Japan ?

Blackadder 11-09-2010 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1091228)
I do not think it should abolish the monarchy.
I couldn't imagine the country without the imperial family.

I could very well imagine Japan without the Imperial family, but not the family living as commoners. Alas!


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