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Victoria9 01-06-2009 03:23 PM


Well yes, being gay myself it does affect me more personally than others but I'd like to think that everyone would condemn homophobia when they hear it.
We all have our trigger points. Mine is racism.


I don't believe that a woman so educated and so wise in her affairs in other areas could be so foolish in this one.
It's curious, isn't it. I too wonder, and have preliminarily come to the conclusion that:

A) She has the example of her mother before her, in terms of outspokenness. Anyone who has read "A Measure of Understanding" with the revelations inside it about visions, and the general frankness about mysticism, will comprehend. I doubt Queen Sofia will ever be able to write her own expansive autobiography, though Queens Victoria and Marie certainly did. It could be, as she nears the end of her life, that she sees this book as a roundabout way to do so.

B) Queen Sofia herself is unconventional in her opinions, and has never really held back in expressing them. E.G.: She is vehemently anti-bull-fighting. One generation ago, this would disqualified her entirely in the eyes of the Spanish people. She would've been seen as "less than Spanish", which is why Queen Ena wore opaque sunglasses in her day.

Her other opinions to me are equally fascinating. She speaks about being "surprised" that the American people could've chosen a black man as President. The way she phrased it, if the transcript is correct, was rather bumptious and condescending.

To speak personally for a moment, I much rather have a human royal, with personality quirks and who doesn't always square with my views on everything, than some remote figure who I can admire or love because nothing she says or does is offensive.

Modernity is more than just about liberal values. It's about realistic expectations about people.

BeatrixFan 01-06-2009 03:30 PM

Hmmm. I wouldn't call homophobia a personality quirk...

Victoria9 01-06-2009 03:40 PM

I think the problem is that people are trying to form an opinion about those who are opposed to gay marriage, as being homophobic. I sense this is the case here.

For the record, as we all know, people are inconsistent in their views. The queen is anti-war, anti-cruelty to animals, champions dispossessed peoples like gypsies, but for the temerity of saying she is doesn't like the attitudes struck in Gay Pride parades, and that she doesn't think gay marriage is a marriage in the fullest sense of the word, she is suddenly being demonised as a "homophobe". Homophobia is something far more overarching than that. It includes viewing people as worthy of extermination or alteration, IMO.

Because the matter about the Queen has assumed a personal quality which is beyond argumentation, I'll say goodbye for the moment.

BeatrixFan 01-06-2009 04:00 PM

Being opposed to gay marriage isn't homophobic, referring to the gay community as "those people" and stereotyping all gay men as desperate to jump into a wedding dress is derogatory and is indeed homophobic. It's not political correctness or un-nessecary finger pointing, it's what she's said and the intention behind it. As a very obvious gay man I get alot of homophobic comments on the street. Now what's the difference between someone calling me "one of those" and the Queen of Spain doing so? It's probably best explained as the use of the word 'queer' is. It's not offensive or homophobic if it's not used as an insult but the term "those people" is demeaning, it is insulting and therefore homophobic.

The Queen might not be out marching with the Westboro Baptist Church, I can see the difference in homophobic attacks and I'm not saying Sofia is evil, wicked etc but I am saying there's no getting away from the fact that Queen Sofia is homophobic. I'm afraid thats fact. I'm as shocked, upset and disappointed as the next person but just because she's done good work in the past, doesn't mean that she can't be named and shamed as a homophobe. She isn't being demonised, she's being labelled with the correct term for someone who suggests gay people shouldn't be proud of our lifestyle, groups all gay people together etc etc.

Victoria9 01-06-2009 04:19 PM


As a very obvious gay man I get alot of homophobic comments on the street.
That must be awful for you, and I am sorry you should have to undergo such insults. But there are degrees of homophobia (if you'll permit me to use your term for the Queen's attitude) and I do not think her views, which are religiously-centric, and the crudeness on the streets you encounter can be equated. Given her otherwise kind nature, I think if the Queen saw that happening to you, she would wince in pain or raise her voice to stop it. I would hope that is the case with any of us, too.

This is neither here nor there, but royalty are no strangers to effeminate homosexuality, as you know. Royal Courts are by nature feminine things, where soft voices, delicate manners, and high culture reign supreme. The amount of gay people, especially men, in royal service throughout history is overwhelming.

Incidentally, when I was a mere slip of a girl, I was told by a knowing person that there are predominantly two kinds of people who are interested in royalty: spinsters and gay men.

If the Queen or other royals who share her opinion are as homophobic as claimed, it must be sheer daily torture for them.

Take care.

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