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Fireweaver 04-06-2004 05:03 PM

Let's not start in on the "Spain is heavily censored" arguement. No one has been able to prove this, and it just provokes nasty arguements. Unless someone can provide proof, please do not use this arguement for the popularity of the Spanish Royal Family and Letizia.

Sheba 04-06-2004 05:11 PM know I love you!!! I do. I don't think it will cause arguments. I don't have any proof, but everything we see points to extreme censorship in Spain.

You are the best Fireweaver, please don't yell at me!

Sheba (one "e"), lol

Fireweaver 04-06-2004 05:15 PM

love you too sheba with one e :)
Unfortunately, that particular phrase has caused problems. If people can back up that with proof, then by all means use it and have a good discussion :)

sheeba 04-07-2004 12:21 PM

Fireweaver - if Spain is not a heavily censored country why after the bomb attacks did citizens of Madrid have to surround the Prime Ministerial Palace demanding to know the truth complaining that they had to read the international press to find out what was really happening up untill that time every Spanish newspaper said it was ETA why - Aznar called them up and told them to say so and they did. If you do media monitoring go back and look at all the international press there was a subtle difference, from the minute the bomb went off they had 2 suspects and cast doubt on whether it was truly ETA - thats just political suicide. Fireweaver I was like you when people used to say Spains heavily censored, I used to say naah its jsut the usual stuff untill the recent bombings. In Italy you have the Berlusconi effect.

Secondly did it not puzzle you that after the announcement of Letizias engagement her divorce was buried in the middle pages of all editorials?????????? Thats no coincidence any other country in Europe the headline would have been - Prince marries divorcee. And lets not forget that Spain is a conservative country. Instead the media spin was she's a modern girl, professional, capable and beautiful ehheehhmm with a past!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why everyone rushed for the internet to air their views. One arena the Palace can not control.

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 12:49 PM

The debate about Spain being censored has been a rather disagreeable mess here at LTR. Our stance has been if you cannot prove your accusations with factual evidence, please do not make it. You can find this in a number of threads here at LTR. If you disagree with this policy, please take it up with an administrator or myself off the boards. Thank you.

sheeba 04-07-2004 01:14 PM

Fireweaver if you do not accept the proof I have given you over the treatment of the Madrid Bombings as proof of Spains heavily censored press then I think you need to look up the definition of the word proof. I only wish I had a link to the editor of EL PAIS when he said he was told to put ETA on his front cover. The only paper that dared to disagree was the socialist paper. In the end in life you believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see. I guess you are one of those people who will be fed with link after link after link and proof after proof after proof and will still say no Spain enjoys the same freedom of Press as the US. Even here in the UK we demand to have the same freedom of expression as the Americans have enshrined in their Constitution. We atleast are not blinded by power or the glamour of monarchy to assume that we have a free press. It would be helpful if some had the same healthy dose of sckeptism. And not just reiterate the PR that is fed to them. We saw the same thing happen in the US when FOX NEWS pretty much turned itself into BUSHIES publicity machine in the run up to war and we now witness the dangers of people not bearing up to scrutiny and asking the right questions.
Why are we not allowed to discuss press coverage of the Spanish Monarchy? Is this back door censorship? And why has this descended into chaos? If I say that the Italian Press is 90% owned by Berlusconi who happens to be the Prime Minister and therefore we can assume Italians are barely fed any negative press about the ruling political party - thats a fact about freedom of expression. You can have a grown up debate about that. Why should that turn ugly. If I say Spain as a 25 yr old democracy has a censored press that finds it hard to criticise the monarchy because 1) the King and Queen have done a bloody good job and they are inextricably linked with Democracy in Spain and 2) The coverage of Letizia was biased and thats why most murmurs are in internet chat rooms - why does that have to be aired privately.
I really do wish we Europeans learnt more from America in our confidence in being able to speak freely and not just put statutes in our constittution about free press whilst only paying only lip service to it. And this issue about press freedom is something I feel VERY STRONGLY ABOUT. Working within in the media industry myself no one should have the right to censor someone else's speech particularly if it is in the public interest. And since this thread is about the future of the Spanish Monarchy the role the media plays and who own the media is crucial in any modern democracy today. As anyone that has followed the events in the UK will tell you.

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 01:22 PM

Sheeba, I have already told you that if you have a problem with what I have said, take it up with me privately.

sheeba 04-07-2004 02:58 PM

I have emailed you privately, but to me that is not Democracy or Freedom of Speech. Lets talk about the beautiful gowns how pretty they look, lets have a meaningful discussion about Democracy, the role of monarchy in a future Europe and the Media - oh no! As adults we can't handle that!!!!!!

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 03:09 PM

I have no problem with a discussion. I've pmed you my stance. Please stay on topic.

sheeba 04-07-2004 03:20 PM

Fireweaver the topic is
"The future of the Spanish Monarchy, will the monarchy be abolished"
Lets atleast agree on something.
Points that have so far been made - the role of media in the debate on monarchy.
IMO why this is relevant to the debate:
1) If the monarchy is drugged through the mud scandal after scandal like the British Royal Family. It loses support amongst its citizens and inches closer to a republic because its seen as a wasteful institution that is self indulgent and not workign in the interest of its citizens that is why all monarchies work hard to get the right PR. Including the Spanish monarchy. Where I come from that equals relevancy to the debate
2) Will Spain be a republic - as respondents in this forum have stated Democracy and King Juan Carlos are firmly rooted in the minds of Spainards. If Spain is to be a republic most definetely not whilst he is ruling. He and the Queen have done a good job and the British Royals can learn from them. Still on topic so far.
3) Since the latter part of the question "will the monarchy be abolished" is in the future tense that automatically brings into question the Crown Prince and yet again how the Media will treat him and his wife. The comparison often made is the Spanish press don't dare air the Kings affairs or how the Royal Family spends its money but will they do the same for Felipe when the King hands over? That will depend essentially on how successful his marriage will be. Why the issue of censorship is to be raised because you asked for proof of Spains free press - how the bombings and the engagement of the Crown Prince were covered were provided as examples. I think thats still on topic...

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 03:24 PM

That wasn't what I was refering to sheeba, and I refuse to discuss this with you publically anymore. Take it up with me via pm, but if it finds it's way to the board, I will refer this thread to an administrator.

sheeba 04-07-2004 03:27 PM

What were you referring to? And please do refer it to the administrator as I would like a response as well.

Bear 04-07-2004 03:50 PM

Keep on topic please.


sheeba 04-07-2004 03:59 PM

When this site learns democracy and free press I will rejoin the forum. Its unfortunate that we in the media have to continually fight for free press. I hope thats conclusive proof about the lack of press freedom in Spain, which this site also seems to have. It might bring to end the apparent ugly arguments that have been had on LTR. Please use it as proof next time as to why Europe needs to emulate the States abit more in their freedom of expression.

Perhaps Bear - you'd like to define what the topic of this forum is? And provide the arguments conclusively for it.

Bear 04-07-2004 04:08 PM

This site is not about democracy or freedom of speech. We provide a medium to discuss all things royal. If you want to discuss the failings of freedom of the press, there are other sites more suited to that.

Thanks for your contributions to the community.


electrivicki 04-07-2004 09:57 PM

Spaniards hate Letizia because she's vulgar,divorced,etc....

Letizia is a very cold woman,I'm sure she'll never be queen...In Spain everybody think it.

Jacqueline 04-07-2004 10:54 PM


Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 8th, 2004 - 1:57 am
Spaniards hate Letizia because she's vulgar,divorced,etc....

Letizia is a very cold woman,I'm sure she'll never be queen...In Spain everybody think it.


So, every single person in Spain hates her? Every single one?

Everybody thinks that she will never be Queen? Everybody?

Interesting, indeed.

I don' t know.....I find it hard to believe that she has not one single fan in all of Spain. I could accept her not being liked or very well received by a vast majority, but every single member of the population of Spain? I am not sure about that. However, who am I to judge? I'll let you do that since you appear to know everything about Letizia, the people of Spain, and who knows what else?

electrivicki 04-08-2004 09:56 PM

Mostly of spaniards hate her,the aristocracy thinks she's vulgar...Infanta Elena didn't want to see her in the family :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: .Everybody knows this in Spain...

It's truth...There are spaniards like Letizia,but millions os them hate her...

Jacqueline 04-08-2004 10:04 PM


Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 9th, 2004 - 1:56 am
Mostly of spaniards hate her,the aristocracy thinks she's vulgar...Infanta Elena didn't want to see her in the family :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: .Everybody knows this in Spain...

It's truth...There are spaniards like Letizia,but millions os them hate her...

I can't take your word for it. It seems to be more of a rant and perception than a fact. You seem to have many words, but no words with examples. Where are the articles that prove this? Where are polls taken and participated in by Spaniards that prove this? I like to see some evidence, as much of it as possible-very much.

electrivicki 04-08-2004 10:11 PM

Spaniards prefer a royal princess as princess Magdalena(the favourite princess in Spain),

In Spain a divorced woman as future Princesa de Asturias is something impossible,repugnant...

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