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TODOI 01-28-2004 01:24 AM

Future and Popularity of the Spanish Monarchy
 
is tha Spanish Monarchy stable I was reading a post below and some were saying that the spanish people want to get rid of the Monarchy and the Royal Family are not very well liked, is this true?.... I always thought the spanish Monarchy was one of the most popular ones in Europe

electrivicki 01-29-2004 02:58 PM

¿Popular? :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Ja,ja,ja,ja,please...don't make me laught....

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 03:00 PM

I think that Juan Carlos, Sophia and Felipe have worked very hard to make Spain more stable and to restore the monarchy. I don't think you can discredit all they've done for spain.

sky 01-29-2004 03:40 PM

You are right Firewever, the king and queen have done alot to restore the monarchy. But I have been on many spanish MB adn they seem to be loyal to juan carlos. I think that is why the monarchy is the way it is. Felipe is popular in spain, but it looks like a large number of his fans are females, because he is good looking. I'm not spanish but that is what drew me to him. I dont have a lot of faith that Feilpe's regin will be a long one . I hope i'm very, very wrong.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 05:17 PM

I wrote a little bit about this in the following thread:

https://www.lestribunesroyales.com/forums/i...t=0&#entry89637
Sean

sheeba 01-29-2004 07:24 PM

I think you are right - the newspapers here in the UK echo that same sentiment - are the Spanish avowed monarchists are they just grateful for the leadership the King showed for the transition into a peaceful and prosperous democracy with entry into the EU. Felipes choice of wife will not help the survival of monarchy in my opinion just as much as here in the UK when the Queen dies theres a chance the UK could become a republic unless Charles abdicates in favour of William. All royal institutions will have to face the issue of- in a democracy where supposedly all men are created equal how can a monarchical institution which thus claims that all men are made equal but some are more equal than others remain viable particularly when its the subjects that have to pay for the institution of monarchy. Having said that does anyone know what the role of monarchy is within a united Europe? Does anyone know what their role is within the constitution that never was? Don't expect the republican countries of France and German (the main drivers of an integrated Europe) alongside Greece,Austria and the other republican coutnries which out number monarchic kingdoms to be screaming for the status of Monarchy to be respected. And funnily enough when the futrue crown princes of Europe ascend to the throne might just coincide with when Europe becomes integrated.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 08:04 PM

Ironically, I think monarchies will become even more important to their respective countries in a more intergrated Europe. The institution will provide for national identity and cultural continuity.

No, the monarchies will survive economic integration. They will kind of be like kingdoms within a greater (economic and political) empire (if that makes any sense). Altough they won't have political power at the EU level, they will have quite a bit of power -- cultural and, to a lesser extent, political -- intra-nationally.

S

sheeba 01-29-2004 08:16 PM

Sean, thats an interesting point that you make about national identity. What is National Identity? for example in the Uk - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own cultures and identity and don't see themselves as English, but British and the British Royal Family, funnily enough because of its history is seen as an English Institution not a British Institution thats why you find more republicans in Scotland. I think the same dynamics play out in Spain. And besides with globalization and an increasingly multicultural society that we live -especially in the Uk and France (re - the whole debate on secularity and integration thats playing out across Europe) Spain I believe is a much more homogenous society the Royal Family's begin to look like an outdated institution thats for a minority of the citizens of a particular country. Its not a coincidence that in the UK the most ardent pro Europeans come from Scotland, Wales and tend to also be republicans -a lmost as though they want the EU to rescue them from the institution. I think we have reached intersting times with the increasing strength of the EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 09:35 PM

Quote:

Sean, thats an interesting point that you make about national identity. What is National Identity?
National idendity comprises of the common language, history, and culture of people residing in a given territory (they may or may not have their own state or independent government). As there is a move towards greater regionalization and harmonization within Europe people will, I think, look to their historical institutions for cultural continuity. It's kind of like looking for comfort in a fast changing world.

Quote:

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own cultures and identity and don't see themselves as English, but British and the British Royal Family,
Now you're confusing the issue. The divide between England and the rest of the UK was there long before the inception of the EU.

Quote:

with globalization and an increasingly multicultural society that we live
If you do your research, you will note that "globalization" (I'm a bit of a global skeptic myself) has increased nationalism and self-determination movements, not decreased it. People will want to hold on to their national identities -- these things don't just die -- and people will, IMO, see a ceremonial monarchy as one of the ways to achieve this. I'm not making an argument for or against monarchy, as I don't think the institution is always a good thing. I am, however, telling you just what I think.

Quote:

Spain I believe is a much more homogenous society the Royal Family's begin to look like an outdated institution thats for a minority of the citizens of a particular country.
Not really a homogenous society. There are ethnic divisions. Or are you not familiar with the Basques? And I don't think that the Spanish people see it as an institution for the minority. After all, the European monarchies are not prebandal dictatorshiops. Indeed, without without Juan Carlos, Spain would be the Serbia of the Iberian Penninsula. If you want to talk about institutions that serve the interests of a minority, look at some of the republics and the allegation and charges of corruption, conflict of interest, and patron-client relationships that they are dogged by (Hmmm. Mexico,Russia, and even the US comes immediately to mind).


Quote:


Its not a coincidence that in the UK the most ardent pro Europeans come from Scotland, Wales and tend to also be republicans -a lmost as though they want the EU to rescue them from the institution.

I think that is too simplistic. It has to do more with being subordinate to England (a hinterland -metropolis relationship) than the monarchy. They see more equality and economic opportunities for them within the EU. It has nothing, IMO, to do with the monarchy (besides the fact that it is an instituion which reminds them of subordinate relationship).

Quote:

I think we have reached intersting times with the increasing strength of the EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well.
I don't really understand your statement. For the most part, the European monarchies are the strongest democracies in Europe, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Perhaps you can clarify.

A.C.C. 01-29-2004 10:26 PM

I agree Sean. Personally, I just don't see any of the European monarchies ending for a while. I think the EU, if it gets itself together, will only make monarchies across the continent stronger including Spain's. Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons, some more than others.

electrivicki 01-29-2004 10:42 PM

"Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons" :P :P :P :P :P :P

There isn't that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 10:42 pm
"Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons" :P  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P

There isn't that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent: ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM! :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

Everything I know indicates otherwise. Can you back-up your assertion with some published facts and figures, especially since you purport to speak for millions of Spaniards?

Sean

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 10:51 PM

Please provide proof. Thank you.

Alexandria 01-29-2004 11:03 PM

While this discussion started off with a bit of a negative reply in answer to a sincere question, in subsequent posts it has spun off into a very interesting discussion that applies to not just the Spanish royal family but other royal families in Continental Europe as well.

I would hate for some negative posts by one or two members to result in the closing of this thread and ruining it for everyone else, as I am finding it quite interesting and educational myself.

I would encourage that everyone, whether you agree with the view points being expressed or not, to at least be civil in their replies. And if you disagree with a viewpoint or a fact stated, please feel free to post countering evidence or proof that the information posted is inaccurate. But please do not negate facts because of personal feelings.

electrivicki 01-29-2004 11:10 PM

¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 11:15 PM

There is no way that information like that wouldn't be leaked. People fleeing the country for example, other European nations would be less the willing to interact with Spain, etc.

A.C.C. 01-29-2004 11:19 PM

Maybe the Spanish press doesn't spend time creating stories about the Spanish royal family like British tabloids do about the British royals? Anyway, I just think that the Spanish monarchy will not be abolished anytime soon (my opinion).

Alexandria 01-29-2004 11:26 PM

I am not trying to incite another controversial issue, but take for example Iraq under Saddam Hussein's rule. I would certainly say that that was a dictatorship and numerous dissenting opinions about the country and its leader were often published in very credible media sources, whether it be television, radio, newspapers, magazines or online publications.

And certainly even with the consideration that (now King) Juan Carlos was "groomed" by the dictator Fraco as a young adult, I would hardly describe the King as a dictator. So certainly, if dissenting, negative stories about Saddam Hussein could be published, then any negative ones about the King and the rest of the royal family would be, too.

Sean.~ 01-30-2004 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The* british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

I understand you. If you want to write to me in Spanish (via PM), I can understand that too. I just have a problem with arguments by assertion. You claim that millions of Spaniards hate the monarchy. I can see that being the case with Basque separatists, but not with the rest of Spain (and I follow world politics very closely). Thus perhaps you can provide links to articles, published polls, discussion forums on the subject, etc. in order to back-up your argument.

mucho gracias,

Sean

ps. that's a very interesting sig. you have

Sean.~ 01-30-2004 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.C.C.@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:19 pm
Maybe the Spanish press doesn't spend time creating stories about the Spanish royal family like British tabloids do about the British royals? Anyway, I just think that the Spanish monarchy will not be abolished anytime soon (my opinion).
I disagree. I think there is a very good possibility of it being abolished after Juan Carlos, particularly if Felipe does not assume his role with gusto. The monarchy is not a strong institution in Spain. It is Juan Carloism' that is strong. This isn't to say that the Spanish people hate the institution.

I think if Felipe had abdicated his rights in order to marry, that may indeed have jeopardized the future of the institution.

sheeba 01-30-2004 06:07 AM

QUOTE
I think we have reached intersting times with the increasing strength of the EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well.


I don't really understand your statement. For the most part, the European monarchies are the strongest democracies in Europe, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Perhaps you can clarify.

God it looks like I missed all the fun last night. Sean the reason why European monarchies today are the strongest democracies is because after revolution upon revoulution their subjects demanded that of them with the exception of Spain where the King was extremely wise (hence his popularity) to go down the democratic route and you are right Spain could easily have become the Serbia of the Iberian Peninsula. The way I see it, it took England over 700 years from the signing of the Magna Carta to universal suffrage to have the sort of parliamentary democracy we have today with a constitutional monarch with limited powers. England did not get here because the monarchies wanted it, they had to be dragged into constitutional reform. How long did it take for the British Monarchy to pay taxes. So yes the strongest democracies in Europe are European monarchies but for me, its more of a testament to the will and strength of the people and nothing to do with the benevolence of the institution or the people in it. Spain might be the exception to this rule.

Sean.~ 01-30-2004 09:55 AM

Quote:

Sean the reason why European monarchies today are the strongest democracies is because after revolution upon revoulution their subjects demanded that of them with the exception of Spain where the King was extremely wise (hence his popularity) to go down the democratic route and you are right Spain could easily have become the Serbia of the Iberian Peninsula. Magna Carta to universal suffrage to have the sort of parliamentary democracy we have today with a constitutional monarch with limited powers. England did not get here because the monarchies wanted it, they had to be dragged into constitutional reform. How long did it take for the British Monarchy to pay taxes.
Lol. You're giving me a history lesson!?? Anyway, your comments have nothing to do with the EU, the future of monarchies, and the argument I put forward (and I would still like you to clarify your previous statement). Moreover, "revolution" after "revolution" does not negate the fact that they are the strongest democracies *today*. Nor does it negate the fact that they do play a role in their respective countries and that they may become even more entrenched with continued European integration. Also, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Belgium, and even Britain have not had "revolutions" in a very, very long time. Actually, Spain is the only one to have had a recent revolution.

Quote:

So yes the strongest democracies in Europe are European monarchies but for me, its more of a testament to the will and strength of the people and nothing to do with the benevolence of the institution or the people in it.
Who said otherwise? That's the same with most institutions. Look at colonialism for instance. Social change takes collective action.

As I said before, I am not making a pro or anti monarchist argument. However, your statement does not negate the fact that the monarchies of Europe are the strongest democracies in Europe *today*. Nor does it have any bearing on my hypothesis that monarchies will become more popular with increased Europeanization. For the monarchies to have survivied this long they've had to have been doing something right (whether that includes 'giving in' is irrelavent). You're earlier statement of
Quote:

EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well
did not make sense to me and that is in the context in which I made my comment. Again, perhaps you would clarify your satement.

sheeba 01-30-2004 12:20 PM

QUOTE
EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well

did not make sense to me and that is in the context in which I made my comment. Again, perhaps you would clarify your satement.

The monarchy by definition is an undemocratic institution - primogeniture, one family has privileges above everybody else. Democracies dictate that we are all equal. The same applies to the EU- the issue of democratic deficit and how to make the EU more transparent and accountable to European Citizens at the moment its a half way house because some nations want integration others want an InterGovernmental Union with accountability to the directly elected governments of the nation states. The French and Germans are currently arguing for an integrated European superstate to counter American Hegemony other nations think other wise for me this is mirrored in the current debates in the UK about the modernisation of the House of Windsor to fit the 21st Century. Pretty much modernise or die -what are the basic arguments put forward about the Eu in a globalised world you need to be united etc etc

So far as I'm concerned and I doubt if this applies to continetal European Royal family's but I am not getting value for money from the House of Windsor - why should we drag them into paying taxes, why should we force them to decommisioning the royal yatch britannia, what the hell am I doing paying for bunch of cousins in kensington Palace who do not perform any royal duties - the house of Windsor costs as much as seven european royal families put together!!! are they made of 50 carat gold, they are not doing anything different from their cousins in the continent so why on earth are they so expensive? Why is the civil list that long? If the House of Windsor wanted to strengthen the institution of monarchy in the UK they should be coming forward and saying we've chatted to our advisors we believe its best for the institution and the country as a whole if we paid taxes, cut the civil list etc etc. The image projected is one of you have to drag us kicking and screaming just to modernise and there will come a point where people will say you know what just go. I'll give you an example Charles came up with the idea of cutting the civil list (making it smaller) like what goes on in the continent apparently his papa disagreed with him and his little brother Andrew was upset that his daughters would no longer have the title of HRH and benefit from state hand outs. Really!!! Are they thinking about the future of monarchy or their own selfish reasons. another example remember when windsor castle burnt down the british subjects (and by the way the British are the only subjects in the world - we are not yet citizens!!!!!!) were told to pay for the reconstruction as windsor castle belonged to us. That was news for the entire nation, so far as we were concerned windsor castle belonged to the royal family and they had to pay for it. The average british SUBJECT does not know what belongs to the state or the HOUSE OF WINDSOR and even though we apparently own buckingham palace, Windsor palace etc we have to pay to go and view for something that already belongs to us and that we pay for through our taxes.

If we strip everything down devoid of personalities etc no one is doubting the resilience of the institution of monarchy. But what is the monarchy for - if we define the monarchy as say x fulfilling role y. its logical to assume these variables will change with the passage of time and if monarchy does not modernise with the winds of change they are pretty much letting in republicanism through the back door. If you look at all the republics of Europe whats the biggest lesson there from the French Revolution onwards you don't modernise your gone.

Sean.~ 01-31-2004 12:09 AM

Sheba, thank you for the clarification and the interesting post. I agree with many of your conclusions (and have made the same points in many of the forums here and on other boards),but I also disagree with some of your points. I will post a detailed response next week, when I have more time.

Have a nice weekend everyone.

S

Elspeth 01-31-2004 04:03 AM

I think one big advantage of a monarchy is that it separates the state from politics. It's much harder for a Prime Minister in a monarchy to play the patriotism card than for a powerful President, because in the European monarchies the monarch is the national focus and it's understood that the Prime Minister is basically a party politician.

In the USA there's always been a tendency for an incumbent president to take advantage of his position as head of state to try and tie patriotism to his political party. Since the events of 11 September, George Bush has been utterly shameless about doing so and has tried (and succeeded to an alarming degree) to plant in people's minds the notion that voting for the other party would be tantamount to an act of treason and would emphatically not be the action of a properly patriotic American because Bush, and by extension the Republicans, embodies the state. if Tony Blair pulled a stunt like that, people would see it for the cynical piece of manipulation it was because Tony Blair is recognised as head of government and a party leader but not head of state.

I think people in Europe possibly have a clearer view of what's going on the USA than the Americans do, and while Bush is playing the patriotism-equals-a-vote-for-my-party card, he's going to turn Europeans away from the idea of replacing their monarchs with a system like that.

Elspeth 01-31-2004 04:08 AM

Sheeba, if it's any help to know this, the Civil List's been cut. The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh (and the Queen Mother until her death) are the only people covered. When other members of the Royal Family do public duties (including the Kensington Palace cousins the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester and the Duke of Kent, but not the Michaels and I think possibly not the Duchess of Kent because of ill health), the Queen reimburses them. They're not on the Civil List any more.

sheeba 01-31-2004 08:22 AM

Dear Elsepth
Thanks for clarifying that but are you sure about the civil list. Because Andrew, Sophie, Edward et al are still on it. Prince Charles idea was the civil list catered for Ruler, consort and direct heirs (i.e. him and his sons) everybody else make your own way which for me, that would get my vote if Charles became King he could not implement such a change quicker, most of his ideas for modernising the monarchy have been practically flatly refused by his Parents and frankly I don't think they are giving him the merit he deserves. Yes he made a mistake with Diana, yes his households a bit of a mess but you should not hold that against him and I think because he has been so scarred by Diana he would make a good King. The Princes Trust does a good job. I just wish the British Monarchy could copy their continental cousins, I almost fell of my chair whilst reading about the Dutch Royal Family when Prince Constatin (I think thats his name) got married and he and his wife were moving to London because of his job because he is not on the Civil List and he has to make his way. I think they are back now and he is a consultant to the EU. Frankly lets admit it Sophie and Edward will not be able to live in Bagshot Park with their wages, Edwards business went bust and I don't know whats happening with Sophies business. They might have cut off extended family but immediate family are still there. Take Spain for example doesn't Infanta Cristina live in a flat what would the Spanish people think if the King did not pay for his daughters weddings and put them up in Lavish big homes and had to be forced by the Spanish people to pay taxes. I think Spain would be a republic. I believe theres a direct relation between the popularity of the monarchy, the way the media treats them and how much they depend on their subjects. Whats the first line of defence for every scurilous tabloid editor its in the public interest because we pay for you. The tabloid editors I believe will not get away with what they get away with in the UK in continental europe well certainly in Spain - or am I being naieve and too kind to the tabloid press in Europe. And besides we speak of the future of the Spanish Monarchy one phenomenon that past kings never had to deal with is the media and the internet. I don't know who owns the majority of the media in Spain but if Letizia has not gotten of on a good footing with them and Felipe thinks the good will shown to his father will somehow automatically trickle down to him, they've got their work cut out. In the UK Rupert Murdoch is anti Monarchy but only believes in the imperial succession of his sons to rule his empire (ironic to say the least) so the British Monarchy will always be on the defensive from now on. William will never present a single mother or divorced mother to the British Public oh boy and dare I say a mixed race girl or a catholic girl - the House of Windsor is way to damaged to cope with such a bomb and besides Rupert Murdoch would love it. And speaking of the internet - the media can bung on and on about how this poll showed people are pro letizia or there will be a republic if this happens, the nobility on Spain are against this and that etc etc you cannot tell in todays age,information is so diffused you can skew a poll to suit your political objectives and that makes the jobs of advisors in the Palace even more difficult. Do they have their fingers on the pulse of the nation and you get the feeling that they don't - look what happened over here with the jubilee celebrations expected to be a no show look what happened. No doubt there were pleasantly surprised. Imagine if the exact opposite happened in Spain with everybody saying everybody likes Letizia and the exact opposite happens. Always prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Elspeth 01-31-2004 11:31 PM

Quote:

Thanks for clarifying that but are you sure about the civil list. Because Andrew, Sophie, Edward et al are still on it.
The money granted to them via the Civil List is being repaid to the Treasury by the Queen. Her allowance from the Civil List didn't go up by that amount, so the reality is that the other members of the Royal Family (except for the Duke of Edinburgh)aren't being paid for by the Civil List.

https://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page318.asp

TODOI 02-01-2004 07:18 PM

thanks everyone for replying to my original question, it makes for some very interesting reading

Sean and Sheeba your posts have been both informative and educational so once again thanks

Meg 02-19-2004 06:42 AM

[QUOTE]Indeed, without without Juan Carlos, Spain would be the Serbia of the Iberian Penninsula

I don´t agree with Sean King Juan Carlos has made a good diplomatic work. But the monarchy in Spain is merely representative, King has no real power. Spanish situation in Europe is due to Spanish real Governments. Juan Carlos is very popular in Spain, but Spanish people are juancarlistas not monarchist. Their loyalty is not unconditional, Felipe must be very cautious. We never cut our Kings heads as our French neighbours did, but we have exiled them twice.

sheeba 02-23-2004 04:32 PM

Meg - Although all European Monarchies at the moment are constitutional. I think the Spanish King has more powers than the British Monarch and the same goes for the Dutch Monarchy. Yes the King was a good diplomat, I made a point that King JC was the only reigning monarch to be voted as one of the most influential Europeans of the century in an FT poll currently running. They would not have done so if he had not made smart political decisions with regards to Spains Democracy. Compare his strategy to the Military coup to his brother in laws in Greece. And for that he needs to be commended. Only the future will know if Felipe will ever reign, same with Charles over here. Que sera, que sera!

Sean.~ 02-23-2004 04:45 PM

I don´t agree with Sean King Juan Carlos has made a good diplomatic work.

May I ask why? I was actually referring to political decisions, but I think he's been a very good diplomat as well, particularly in securing a kind of Latin 'axis'. The King does have more political power than most of his European counterparts and more than many ceremonial presidents.

He also has the loyalty of the military which is important in Spain.


S

Meg 03-02-2004 06:03 AM

I speak a very bad English and I forget a comma sorry. I mean that Juan Carlos is a good diplomat, but I know pretty well the Spanish Constitution and he has almost no power.

carlota 04-05-2004 04:17 PM

i don't think it will be abolished. however, spanish royals are not very popular...
it's a pity... sofia is, imo, one of the best queens in europe.

Gabriella 04-05-2004 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Apr 5th, 2004 - 4:17 pm
i don't think it will be abolished. however, spanish royals are not very popular...
it's a pity... sofia is, imo, one of the best queens in europe.

They seem as if they are really popular with the people right now. I read somewhere that they are being hailed as the "People's Monarchy".

Alexandria 04-05-2004 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gabriella@Apr 5th, 2004 - 5:24 pm
They seem as if they are really popular with the people right now. I read somewhere that they are being hailed as the "People's Monarchy".
I read this in a BBC article, about the Spanish royal family being hailed as "the people's monarchy." It was about how members of the royal family were the only ones to reach out and console the grieving family members after the memorial mass while members of the government stood around watching. (The article added that members of the government felt that they couldn't comfort the grieving families because they were partly responsible by chain of actions, such as supporting the U.S. alliance against terrorism and then sending Spanish troops. I am not sure that I completely believe this, but it is what the article said. Personally, I think the government should've been the first people to comfort the grieving families.) But in this way, the monarchy acted as the bridge between the government and the people.

As unfortunate as the events of March 11 were, and in no disrespect to I mean to demean the horribleness of those terrorist acts or the sad loss of lives, but the subsequent actions taken by the family the day of the terrorist attack and in the weeks after leading up to the memorial mass have shown the Spanish people how important and special their monarchy is. All members of the royal family showed tremendous compassion and sympathy with those who were hurt and/or those who lost family members, friends and loved ones. Even the "newest" (not technically official yet, I know) member of the royal family, Letizia showed tremendous concern and compassion.

I read that according to the Spanish press, they were most impressed with Queen Sofia during these weeks. She is normally quite stoic and unaffected emotionally by things, or at least does not show her emotions easily, but during the memorial mass she was the one member of the royal family who cried the most. I know that crying the most doesn't mean anything, but it does show how affected Her Majesty was by the event.

And also, I think that however opposed some of the Spanish people felt about Letizia becoming their future Queen this coming May, Letizia's actions and her behaviour at this time certainly demonstrated that she is capable for the task at hand. She may not be the Spanish people's perfect ideal of a future Queen, but in her own way and with her own style, she is capable. In a way, I think it was a trial by fire for Letizia, and certainly from what I have read and seen, she passed the test.

Gabriella 04-05-2004 07:36 PM

Giving credit where credit is due, I think it was through one of Alexandria's posts on another thread where I got the information of the People's Monarchy. But you are very right and your post was very well said.

It's unfortunate that it takes something as horrible as a terrorist attack for people to finally understand that what they have is great, and what a huge asset the Spanish Royal Family is to the people. I remember much of the same sentiment said in the US after September 11th.

I myself was quite impressed by their actions in the days following the attacks. A royal family is usually so stoic and held together. For them to be visibly upset and affected by the attacks shows to me how much they truly care for their country and their people. In King Juan Carlos' eyes you could see pain and grief, as if a close loved one had just died. Cristina openly weeped and Sofia went out of her way to console family members. I gained a new respect for the royal family after seeing all of those pictures.

Alisa 04-05-2004 10:40 PM

Quote:

read that according to the Spanish press, they were most impressed with Queen Sofia during these weeks. She is normally quite stoic and unaffected emotionally by things, or at least does not show her emotions easily, but during the memorial mass she was the one member of the royal family who cried the most. I know that crying the most doesn't mean anything, but it does show how affected Her Majesty was by the event.
I think that is very interesting, Queen Sofia has always been a very open and compassionate Queen; whether it is cryingly consoling the mothers of dead soldiers or playing with children with AIDS. :flowers:

Quote:

And also, I think that however opposed some of the Spanish people felt about Letizia becoming their future Queen this coming May, Letizia's actions and her behaviour at this time certainly demonstrated that she is capable for the task at hand. She may not be the Spanish people's perfect ideal of a future Queen, but in her own way and with her own style, she is capable. In a way, I think it was a trial by fire for Letizia, and certainly from what I have read and seen, she passed the test.
I don't think Letizia could have done any different. :blink: :flowers:

donnaK 04-06-2004 03:00 AM

Queen Sofia has been quite compassionate the last few years, I saw her cry a few times in public, however, general public just didn't pay much attention before until now. Queen Sofia has always been the 'perfect Queen', she definitely has the highest respects from most of the Spainards, but she has never been 'popular' in Spain. Before Felipe's engagement, the only things interested Spanish media were Felipe's love life and Elena's marital problem, both could be quite negative at times. The media/population really didn't pay much attention to all the wonderful works the RF family had done over the years.
Letizia probably will never be the 'perfect Queen' Queen Sofia is, but she has the chance to be more popular than Queen Sofia (Beauty and Style definitely helps in the 'popularity' contest). Some people might not like her (lots of them are actually from the internets), but majority people in Spain are willing to give her a chance (my relatives and friends all said so). Right now there is tremendous interest at whatever she does, this probably had never happened to any member of the RFs before. Her engagement suit becomes the hottest fashion this spring, there were mothers talking about their young daughters wanting to wear suit jackets and high heels, trying to be like Letizia, everywhere Pertegaz went, people wanted to know how her wedding dress looked like, numerous books about her and the prince (people really tried to cash in), someone was even talking about a musical show about their love story ....
I don't think the CP job is any difficult for her, just hope she is happy about her role and doesn't find the CP job very boring (personally I think those princess jobs are quite boring), and they can keep each other happy.

sheeba 04-06-2004 03:36 PM

"Queen Sofia has always been the 'perfect Queen', she definitely has the highest respects from most of the Spainards, but she has never been 'popular' in Spain. "

Thats a surprise to me. Well I guess she has the benefit of being a Kings daughter and gets on with the job. People will always admire professionalism. She's not the most beautiful and elegant but its her work that sees her through. its abit like Princess Anne in the Uk not the prettiest and not the most elegant and certainly quite rude, but asked time and time again who the nation prefers to take over when the Queen dies its Anne. Her hard work and luck of scandals has seen her through.

One thing to remember the Spanish press is heavily censored. I never realised how much untill the recent bombings, and thats why most of the negative comments on Letizia are aired on the internet no Editor of any newspaper will dare print what they know or hear. In the Independent article that was mentioned it was stated that attacking the Royal Family (The King and Queen) was like attacking Democracy in Spain because the King was so integral to its flourishing after Franco. Thats why the phrase Juan Carlistas. You will never read anything about his affairs or how the monarchy spend their £40 million + , here in the UK its open season. The attacks on Letizia are lame because of the tightly controlled press can you imagine if William were to get engaged to a Letizia type girl? If the King and Queen of Sweden are trying to end Victoria's relationship that should give you some idea of the risk Felipe is taking, all one can hope for is that Felipe's gamble pays off like Haakons. But Norwegian and Spanish societies are completely different. Felipe can not be assured of the same treatment his Father has received from the press, one because in the communication age people will get their news from different sources so it makes it impossible to control every channel making news management almost impossible. Indeed when his Father steps down God help that child and lets hope Letizias past does not come back to haunt her. Monarchy is not based on someones pretty looks.

Fireweaver 04-06-2004 05:03 PM

Let's not start in on the "Spain is heavily censored" arguement. No one has been able to prove this, and it just provokes nasty arguements. Unless someone can provide proof, please do not use this arguement for the popularity of the Spanish Royal Family and Letizia.

Sheba 04-06-2004 05:11 PM

Fireweaver...you know I love you!!! I do. I don't think it will cause arguments. I don't have any proof, but everything we see points to extreme censorship in Spain.

You are the best Fireweaver, please don't yell at me!

Sheba (one "e"), lol

Fireweaver 04-06-2004 05:15 PM

love you too sheba with one e :)
Unfortunately, that particular phrase has caused problems. If people can back up that with proof, then by all means use it and have a good discussion :)

sheeba 04-07-2004 12:21 PM

Fireweaver - if Spain is not a heavily censored country why after the bomb attacks did citizens of Madrid have to surround the Prime Ministerial Palace demanding to know the truth complaining that they had to read the international press to find out what was really happening up untill that time every Spanish newspaper said it was ETA why - Aznar called them up and told them to say so and they did. If you do media monitoring go back and look at all the international press there was a subtle difference, from the minute the bomb went off they had 2 suspects and cast doubt on whether it was truly ETA - thats just political suicide. Fireweaver I was like you when people used to say Spains heavily censored, I used to say naah its jsut the usual stuff untill the recent bombings. In Italy you have the Berlusconi effect.

Secondly did it not puzzle you that after the announcement of Letizias engagement her divorce was buried in the middle pages of all editorials?????????? Thats no coincidence any other country in Europe the headline would have been - Prince marries divorcee. And lets not forget that Spain is a conservative country. Instead the media spin was she's a modern girl, professional, capable and beautiful ehheehhmm with a past!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why everyone rushed for the internet to air their views. One arena the Palace can not control.

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 12:49 PM

The debate about Spain being censored has been a rather disagreeable mess here at LTR. Our stance has been if you cannot prove your accusations with factual evidence, please do not make it. You can find this in a number of threads here at LTR. If you disagree with this policy, please take it up with an administrator or myself off the boards. Thank you.

sheeba 04-07-2004 01:14 PM

Fireweaver if you do not accept the proof I have given you over the treatment of the Madrid Bombings as proof of Spains heavily censored press then I think you need to look up the definition of the word proof. I only wish I had a link to the editor of EL PAIS when he said he was told to put ETA on his front cover. The only paper that dared to disagree was the socialist paper. In the end in life you believe what you want to believe and see what you want to see. I guess you are one of those people who will be fed with link after link after link and proof after proof after proof and will still say no Spain enjoys the same freedom of Press as the US. Even here in the UK we demand to have the same freedom of expression as the Americans have enshrined in their Constitution. We atleast are not blinded by power or the glamour of monarchy to assume that we have a free press. It would be helpful if some had the same healthy dose of sckeptism. And not just reiterate the PR that is fed to them. We saw the same thing happen in the US when FOX NEWS pretty much turned itself into BUSHIES publicity machine in the run up to war and we now witness the dangers of people not bearing up to scrutiny and asking the right questions.
Why are we not allowed to discuss press coverage of the Spanish Monarchy? Is this back door censorship? And why has this descended into chaos? If I say that the Italian Press is 90% owned by Berlusconi who happens to be the Prime Minister and therefore we can assume Italians are barely fed any negative press about the ruling political party - thats a fact about freedom of expression. You can have a grown up debate about that. Why should that turn ugly. If I say Spain as a 25 yr old democracy has a censored press that finds it hard to criticise the monarchy because 1) the King and Queen have done a bloody good job and they are inextricably linked with Democracy in Spain and 2) The coverage of Letizia was biased and thats why most murmurs are in internet chat rooms - why does that have to be aired privately.
I really do wish we Europeans learnt more from America in our confidence in being able to speak freely and not just put statutes in our constittution about free press whilst only paying only lip service to it. And this issue about press freedom is something I feel VERY STRONGLY ABOUT. Working within in the media industry myself no one should have the right to censor someone else's speech particularly if it is in the public interest. And since this thread is about the future of the Spanish Monarchy the role the media plays and who own the media is crucial in any modern democracy today. As anyone that has followed the events in the UK will tell you.

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 01:22 PM

Sheeba, I have already told you that if you have a problem with what I have said, take it up with me privately.

sheeba 04-07-2004 02:58 PM

I have emailed you privately, but to me that is not Democracy or Freedom of Speech. Lets talk about the beautiful gowns how pretty they look, lets have a meaningful discussion about Democracy, the role of monarchy in a future Europe and the Media - oh no! As adults we can't handle that!!!!!!

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 03:09 PM

I have no problem with a discussion. I've pmed you my stance. Please stay on topic.

sheeba 04-07-2004 03:20 PM

Fireweaver the topic is
"The future of the Spanish Monarchy, will the monarchy be abolished"
Lets atleast agree on something.
Points that have so far been made - the role of media in the debate on monarchy.
IMO why this is relevant to the debate:
1) If the monarchy is drugged through the mud scandal after scandal like the British Royal Family. It loses support amongst its citizens and inches closer to a republic because its seen as a wasteful institution that is self indulgent and not workign in the interest of its citizens that is why all monarchies work hard to get the right PR. Including the Spanish monarchy. Where I come from that equals relevancy to the debate
2) Will Spain be a republic - as respondents in this forum have stated Democracy and King Juan Carlos are firmly rooted in the minds of Spainards. If Spain is to be a republic most definetely not whilst he is ruling. He and the Queen have done a good job and the British Royals can learn from them. Still on topic so far.
3) Since the latter part of the question "will the monarchy be abolished" is in the future tense that automatically brings into question the Crown Prince and yet again how the Media will treat him and his wife. The comparison often made is the Spanish press don't dare air the Kings affairs or how the Royal Family spends its money but will they do the same for Felipe when the King hands over? That will depend essentially on how successful his marriage will be. Why the issue of censorship is to be raised because you asked for proof of Spains free press - how the bombings and the engagement of the Crown Prince were covered were provided as examples. I think thats still on topic...

Fireweaver 04-07-2004 03:24 PM

That wasn't what I was refering to sheeba, and I refuse to discuss this with you publically anymore. Take it up with me via pm, but if it finds it's way to the board, I will refer this thread to an administrator.

sheeba 04-07-2004 03:27 PM

What were you referring to? And please do refer it to the administrator as I would like a response as well.

Bear 04-07-2004 03:50 PM

Keep on topic please.

:grrr:

sheeba 04-07-2004 03:59 PM

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3516111.stm

When this site learns democracy and free press I will rejoin the forum. Its unfortunate that we in the media have to continually fight for free press. I hope thats conclusive proof about the lack of press freedom in Spain, which this site also seems to have. It might bring to end the apparent ugly arguments that have been had on LTR. Please use it as proof next time as to why Europe needs to emulate the States abit more in their freedom of expression.

Perhaps Bear - you'd like to define what the topic of this forum is? And provide the arguments conclusively for it.

Bear 04-07-2004 04:08 PM

This site is not about democracy or freedom of speech. We provide a medium to discuss all things royal. If you want to discuss the failings of freedom of the press, there are other sites more suited to that.

Thanks for your contributions to the community.

:grrr:

electrivicki 04-07-2004 09:57 PM

Spaniards hate Letizia because she's vulgar,divorced,etc....

Letizia is a very cold woman,I'm sure she'll never be queen...In Spain everybody think it.

Jacqueline 04-07-2004 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 8th, 2004 - 1:57 am
Spaniards hate Letizia because she's vulgar,divorced,etc....

Letizia is a very cold woman,I'm sure she'll never be queen...In Spain everybody think it.

Interesting...

So, every single person in Spain hates her? Every single one?

Everybody thinks that she will never be Queen? Everybody?

Interesting, indeed.

I don' t know.....I find it hard to believe that she has not one single fan in all of Spain. I could accept her not being liked or very well received by a vast majority, but every single member of the population of Spain? I am not sure about that. However, who am I to judge? I'll let you do that since you appear to know everything about Letizia, the people of Spain, and who knows what else?

electrivicki 04-08-2004 09:56 PM

Mostly of spaniards hate her,the aristocracy thinks she's vulgar...Infanta Elena didn't want to see her in the family :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: .Everybody knows this in Spain...

It's truth...There are spaniards like Letizia,but millions os them hate her...

Jacqueline 04-08-2004 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 9th, 2004 - 1:56 am
Mostly of spaniards hate her,the aristocracy thinks she's vulgar...Infanta Elena didn't want to see her in the family :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: .Everybody knows this in Spain...

It's truth...There are spaniards like Letizia,but millions os them hate her...

I can't take your word for it. It seems to be more of a rant and perception than a fact. You seem to have many words, but no words with examples. Where are the articles that prove this? Where are polls taken and participated in by Spaniards that prove this? I like to see some evidence, as much of it as possible-very much.

electrivicki 04-08-2004 10:11 PM

Spaniards prefer a royal princess as princess Magdalena(the favourite princess in Spain),

In Spain a divorced woman as future Princesa de Asturias is something impossible,repugnant...

Jacqueline 04-08-2004 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 9th, 2004 - 2:11 am
Spaniards prefer a royal princess as princess Magdalena(the favourite princess in Spain),

In Spain a divorced woman as future Princesa de Asturias is something impossible,repugnant...

That still doesn't give any evidence or factual information.

electrivicki 04-09-2004 11:54 PM

All people I know hates Letizia,she's not a princess.In Spain we want a real princess as future Princesa de Asturias,even she's a divorced woman!!! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Meg 04-11-2004 04:49 AM

I am Spanish and I don’t agree with you Electrivicki. I think much people in Spain is satisfied with Juan Carlos and wish for Prince Felipe wedding. Of course, traditionalist monarchist are against the wedding (because Letizia is not a princess)and republicans are against the monarchy itself. However, Spain nowadays is a country that loves gossip (country of marujos and marujas). People enjoy watching Royal news in magazines and television. I don’t know what will happen if Prince and Letizia would be ugly and nasty, but he is handsome and she is beautiful so people is delighted with this Cinderella story.

Jacqueline 04-11-2004 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Apr 10th, 2004 - 3:54 am
All people I know hates Letizia,she's not a princess.In Spain we want a real princess as future Princesa de Asturias,even she's a divorced woman!!! :yuk:  :yuk:  :yuk:  :yuk:
Well, you're getting Leitizia. So you'll simply have to deal with it or move! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for your comments Meg. Somehow considering the lack of evidence and all, I had an idea that not every single soul in Spain hated Letizia. It seemed a bit strange to me. :rolleyes:

electrivicki 04-11-2004 11:08 PM

Bluetortuga,you don't understand my sense of humour :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: ...

I doubt Meg is spaniard :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: .She don't know there are millions of republicans in Spain :P :P :P :P :P :P ,The difficult is to find monarchist,here :cry: :cry:

And Letizia means the ending of spanish royals,she's so vulgar :yuk: :shock: :shock: ,people hate her..that's the truth,everybody say this in Spain,maybe "las marujas"...like her....

Meg 04-12-2004 08:22 AM

I’m Spanish you can believe me and I don’t know any real republican. I mean I don’t meet many people who take much care about the subject. Most of the people I know are not enthusiast of Monarchy, but they tolerate it because has worked well or not so bad. I agree with you Electrivicki, there are few traditionalist monarchist, however some people admires Juan Carlos, they are juancarlistas.

Monarchy exist because of people’s affection to the King. People likes Letizia because she is asturiana and came from the middle class. In my opinion this people could be wrong at the end. Royal family have privileges, but apparently, they don’t have duties. People is starting to think. If everybody can be a Queen. Why everybody can not be a King?. Perhaps you are right and Prince marriage is the end of the Monarchy. Time will give the answer.

electrivicki 04-12-2004 05:10 PM

"People is starting to think. If everybody can be a Queen. Why everybody can not be a King?. Perhaps you are right and Prince marriage is the end of the Monarchy. Time will give the answer."

This is my idea...,¿Letizia as a queen?..please..don't make me laught ,ja,ja,ja,and,don't forget their parents are divorced,¡TOO!,she's going to be the first DIVORCED QUEEN..it's incredible and repugnant..

Letizia as a future queen is an insult to Spain..I don't say but the truth

TODOI 04-13-2004 11:38 PM

I always thought Felipe would be the only Royal Prince to marry another Royal so I was surprised that he is marrying a commoner who is also a divorcee, and I'm also suprised his parent approved!

asma 04-15-2004 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TODOI@Apr 13th, 2004 - 10:38 pm
I always thought Felipe would be the only Royal Prince to marry another Royal so I was surprised that he is marrying a commoner who is also a divorcee, and I'm also suprised his parent approved!
I agree.

Daria 05-22-2004 05:10 AM

I was said that , at the beginning, Felipe's parents (especially the Queen) disagreed with his choice, but finally they had to accept it as Felipe was very subborn.

wlb825 05-22-2004 10:34 AM

Well, all I have to say is tha he looked so much inlove today... she looked happy but nothing close to him. I woke up at 3am to be able to wacht the weeding life...as we know she wore the same tiara as Queen sofia for her wedding the dress was pretty but I don't know she didn't look happy to me.... I'm happy for him and I hope she makes him as happy as he look today.

Dulce Elena 05-23-2004 05:34 PM

In many cases, the son never outshines the father. Let's hope that Felipe will outshine his father!!! Juan Carlos and Sophia are very magnetic, strong-willed personalities. I love Queen Sophia and Queen Elizabeth. A lot of people find them cold and distant or unapproachable, but I feel like they are very warm people who are bearing heavy burdens under which they must remain composed. They are both super-queens and we might not see their kind in the future.

As for Spain being anti-monarchy, every country with monarchy has people who are for and people who are against, and it's generally the same old arguments. I think the Spanish people revel in their history, and while they might not be ga-ga over the royals, gushing emotions about them in every breath, I don't believe they are anti-monarchy.

Letizia is a sore spot because Letizia is not very well-rounded. She has a very shady history. Consider that she&#39;s divorced, engaged to another only to dump him for Felipe - not to mention there are rumours that she has had an abortion (during her first marriage, and the baby wasn&#39;t her husband&#39;s), that she slept around for her job...Eva and Gigi and the other women were always painted scarlet by the Queen, but generally because they were models and, thus, considered "looser." Letizia was no model and yet the rumours about her are more hurtful and hateful than about any other of his other girlfriends. Why? Letizia i&#39;m sure is a nice girl, but also a girl who looks as if she will get what she wants any way she can. >>Consider the engagement announcement as case in point.<<

As many rumours as there are about her, I can&#39;t help but respect strong women who get what they want no matter what the cost. But she has to know that she is going to be a Queen & that she should be above suspect or reproach. So far her PR has been very bad and her behaviour around Felipe & the Royal Family deplorable. Maybe she will prove me wrong, but I side with Sofia and Juan Carlos in admitting she wasn&#39;t the ideal woman for the job.

gogm 05-23-2004 10:21 PM

I had not read this til after the wedding, but it is very interesting. Its not just the the future Spain&#39;s monarchy being debated, but the future of Spain.

Felipe and Letizia face a truly daunting task - they will have to fill some of the biggest shoes in Europe when he succeeds to the throne. Letizia will have to fill Sofia&#39;s shoes as reigning queen. She&#39;s signed up for the job and she has no easy way out. Sophia has done a wonderful job and it looks like everyone is agreed about Juan Carlos. One reasonwhy monarchy persists in Europe is that it represents nationhood and, beyond that, social contract in the fullest meaning of the words. A social contract binds people of all classes together. There is something more important than my getting ahead in a social contract environment. Monarchs and aristocrats are supposed to contribute by leading the common defense - this is why Crown Prince Felipe and the other royal men wore their uniforms. The USA never really established one and whatever it had is being abrogated by those at the top. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the monarchies if pan-Europeanism really takes hold.

There is a discussion about whether the Spanish press is controlled. I&#39;m an American and I live in a country with an increasingly controlled press. Control of the press does not need to come from a government or a monarchy. It can also come from an oligarchy of powerful people who don&#39;t want the little people to get upset over things like who pays taxes and who doesn&#39;t, unilateralism in foreign policy, or whether their country is taking on the Islamic world. We&#39;re supposed to focus on "reality TV" and a local murder story in Modesto, California that is a national rather than local news story. This is censorship in action. While the Bush regime is not yet directly involved, it is the principal beneficiary. George Bush II benefitted from press coverage in 2000 that was 2/3 to 1/3 favorable to him instead of his (rightfully elected) opponent. The press also ignored the fraudulent voter screening scheme in Florida that is well-known outside of the USA.

Getting off of the soapbox, it has only recently come out that George V was euthanized, that Edward VIII was probably deposed with considerable input from the aristocracy because of his strong pro-Nazi leanings, and that maybe he was an out an out traitor in the early days of World War 2. The UK press cocooned their monarchy. I gather Anthony Armstrong Jones had a role in peeling away the cocoon and the antics of Charles and Diana did away with it all together. I have seen that back in the 30s, a lady was no referred to as "Lady Jane", but as "The Lady Jane". Very deferential.

Giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe the Spanish press seeks to protect the monarchy as the symbol of nationhood understanding the strong centrifugal forces at work. Modern democratic Spain is a marvel, it is as dynamic and creative as it ever was in the age of Velazquez.

In any and all events, I wish the people of Spain, Crown Prince Felipe, and Crown Princess Letizia the best.

tiaraprin 05-28-2004 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~+Jan 30th, 2004 - 1:57 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sean.~ @ Jan 30th, 2004 - 1:57 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn&#39;t freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The* british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT&#39;S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

I understand you. If you want to write to me in Spanish (via PM), I can understand that too. I just have a problem with arguments by assertion. You claim that millions of Spaniards hate the monarchy. I can see that being the case with Basque separatists, but not with the rest of Spain (and I follow world politics very closely). Thus perhaps you can provide links to articles, published polls, discussion forums on the subject, etc. in order to back-up your argument.

mucho gracias,

Sean

ps. that&#39;s a very interesting sig. you have [/b][/quote]
Sean, I am in agreement with you on this issue and was shocked by the personal signature as a Spanish speaker (although not a native). That was not something I expected someone to say of themselves to the world.

Lord Williams 05-28-2004 12:42 PM

Personally, the way Sheba was treated a few posts back is rude in my opinion..."please stay on topic"

donnaK 05-28-2004 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dulce Elena@May 23rd, 2004 - 4:34 pm

Letizia is a sore spot because Letizia is not very well-rounded. She has a very shady history. Consider that she&#39;s divorced, engaged to another only to dump him for Felipe - not to mention there are rumours that she has had an abortion (during her first marriage, and the baby wasn&#39;t her husband&#39;s), that she slept around for her job...Eva and Gigi and the other women were always painted scarlet by the Queen, but generally because they were models and, thus, considered "looser." Letizia was no model and yet the rumours about her are more hurtful and hateful than about any other of his other girlfriends. Why? Letizia i&#39;m sure is a nice girl, but also a girl who looks as if she will get what she wants any way she can. >>Consider the engagement announcement as case in point.<<


She was divorced, that&#39;s the fact. Other than that, all those rumors around her are purely rumors, nobody had found anything to back it up. Jus because she had a successful career, it doesn&#39;t mean she had slept around. I doubt someone like Jaime Penafiel would have let her take an easy way if there was any truth to what you just said.

carlota 05-28-2004 05:31 PM

i don&#39;t really know if letizia is or isn&#39;t the most suitable one, but we all have to agree that there are many other crown princesses that weren&#39;t at all suitable. i think that the future of the spanish monarchy would depend mostly of the reactions of the people against the new couple, mainly because people really like sophia and juan carlos, because the did a lot to win their place and have done many things for spain. but we&#39;ll have to wait. maybe felipe is as good (or better&#33;) as his father... and i&#39;m sure that letizia will try to follow sophia&#39;s exemple accurately

Julian 05-29-2004 03:02 PM

I have nothing against Letizia, rather I like her so far and think if you put her in context as coming from a middle-class/professional background, there&#39;s nothing either "shady" or a big deal about her at all. On the other hand, I can understand if either Queen Sofia or King Juan Carlos were having private thoughts (or converstions with their son) wondering why he had to choose from someone with not the ideal background. That&#39;s to say, not a bad or shocking background, but not the background of a young woman raised in an aristocratic or royal background who understands instinctively and easily the role of a future queen. Still, I&#39;m sure that Felipe might easily have replied that royal and noble matches do not necessarily guarantee future success, and furthermore other princes of reigning houses are marrying women from as far away as Hong Kong and Australia, Cuba, Argentina and Brazil, with no or little knowledge of royal life in their backgrounds. And European women with illegitimate children or past secret affairs with gangsters. Of course Q. Sofia and K. JC already know all these facts, along with the fact that they already objected to previous possible matches between their son including one with a woman did have a noble pedigree.

Dulce Elena 06-05-2004 09:43 PM

Firstly, Penafiel is not a journalist. Secondly, she has a home field advantage because now that she is Princess, people will tread on eggshells around her. Especially, since she is JUST married. I&#39;m sure that if there is any valid suspicion (I&#39;m not saying there is, simply that the tabloids always have their noses to the ground to trail the scent) they will wait until after the Honeymoon and give her some time before they attack, if they ever do. Besides, I think everyone -- journalists included, just FINALLY wanted to see Felipe married &#33;&#33;

lucys 06-07-2004 06:38 PM

In reading this discussion (which I think I&#39;ve been reading on and off in some variation or other on this board and others since Felipe announced he was getting married) I&#39;d like to share this thought: There is no such thing as a perfect princess--there are only degrees of better or lesser. Princess Diana appeared by all measures to be the perfect candidate for princess and the British monarchy hasn&#39;t exactly come out of her complicated legacy untarnished.

Only time will tell if Princess Letizia, or Princess Mary or Princess Metta-Marit or any of these new princesses will prove to be a good thing for their respective crowns and only time will tell if they will prove able to fulfil the role that they need to fill in their respective countries.

Digging up the past and, more specifically, spreading rumours about the past at this point--when the marriage has been consecrated before God--is simply malicious and ill-intentioned. Letizia is now Felipe&#39;s wife and should be given the opportunity to prove herself worthy of the trust he has placed in her. Only if in some future date she were to fall short is this kind of criticism merited.

I just spent two months in Spain and had many many conversations about the wedding and about Letizia and I got the feeling that while she certainly has both avid fans and avid detractors, most people seem to like her and are willing to do just that--give her time to gain her footing and prove herself.

But this is all just my opinion.

Iain 06-16-2004 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dulce Elena@May 23rd, 2004 - 5:34 pm
I love Queen Sophia and Queen Elizabeth. A lot of people find them cold and distant or unapproachable, but I feel like they are very warm people who are bearing heavy burdens under which they must remain composed. They are both super-queens and we might not see their kind in the future.


Queen Sofia does appear to be very warm but Queen Elizabeth is cold and distant. Anyone who saw her the day she went to Dunblane after the masacre will tell you how cold she is. How any person, but especially a mother and grandmother, could visit that place and not show any emotion is beyond belief. Queens Sofia, Beatrix and Margarethe or any other King or Queen would have wept and hugged the parents but not Elizabeth. Many in Scotland turned against her that day.

tiaraprin 06-20-2004 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iain@Jun 16th, 2004 - 9:30 am
Queen Elizabeth is cold and distant. Anyone who saw her the day she went to Dunblane after the masacre will tell you how cold she is. How any person, but especially a mother and grandmother, could visit that place and not show any emotion is beyond belief. Queens Sofia, Beatrix and Margarethe or any other King or Queen would have wept and hugged the parents but not Elizabeth. Many in Scotland turned against her that day.
It seems that Queen Elizabeth II maintains control of her emotions by detaching herself from the situation at hand. She was brought up to never show her emotions in public. Usually the more cold she seems, the more emotionally affected she is. I am not excusing her--I think she needs to learn and know it is OK as a Queen and human being to show true emotion.

helleniki 06-20-2004 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 10:42 pm
"Each country is connected to it&#39;s monarchy for different reasons" :P :P :P :P :P :P

There isn&#39;t that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM&#33; :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Of course this is your opinion...
We can always see the popular support to the Royal Faily...

helleniki 06-20-2004 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn&#39;t freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT&#39;S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

it&#39;s not a question of having no freedom of expression... it&#39;s a question of respect... and the spanish do respect its Royal Family...

Conde Valleverde 08-17-2004 10:32 PM

I think monarchy is stable in Spain. In most polls, monarchy is the most "credible" institution among Spaniards. Being a country where nationalism in some regions (Catalonia and the Basque Country) is very strong, the major political parties (right wing PP and socialist PSOE) support monarchy and don´t question it because, if things go wrong, at least there will be a "central" representative of all the Spanish territories, i.e., the King. Then Spain would be a loose confederation of semi-independent States like the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.

Conde Valleverde 08-17-2004 10:52 PM

The King has little power. According to the Constitution, the King cannot sign any decree without the approval of the Government. He doesn´t preside over the Cabinet neither. He cannot propose any law. He just proposes to the Parliament as a Prime Minister the person who has won a general election. Therefore, he has more or less the same powers as Queen Elizabeth. The only difference is that when he opens a Parliament session, his speech is not the new Government´s programme. In that speech he reflects his own thoughts, trying not to be partisan.

Conde Valleverde 08-21-2004 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P******
There's maybe no censorship in other subjets in Spain, but when it comes to the Monarchy oh yes... It sure there is... Look what the papers did with Eva Sanum and other Felipe's girlfriends, the press did butch meat with them and all whith the annuence of Juan Carlos and Sofia... but now because Felipe gave an ultimatum they put their marketing dogs to work and they are being shouting mouthes since the fiance's announcement cirque. And almost nobody wants to publish anything bad or about the pass of Letizia because they know they can't loose their jobs, their friends, everything, is just one of those non written laws. Everybody know that in Spain. I don't mean to sound bitter or rude, but this is the true and nothing else. Did you know that even Letizia's divorce papers are in one security box, under seven keys ? Ask yourself why and why no one ask about it... Everybody knows (because we are not dumbs) that Letizia was still legally married when she and the Prince was hanging around and she just become divorce on the days before the royal marriage.

There is no censorship about any subject, including the Royal Family. As a proof of it, remember that a nude portrait of Princess Letizia apperared on the press. I know some people would like that the Spanish press would act in a tabloid manner, but that is another question. Books are published in Spain critizing the private lives of the Spanish royals (for example, the book "La soledad del Rey"). The figures of Spanish Royal Family should be treated with more respect because royals -thank God- cannot go to defend themselves to those horrible TV reality shows like "Crónicas marcianas" (by the way, in that TV show they often critizice monarchy as an institution).

Genevieve 08-21-2004 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P******
Look at Juan Carlos de Borbon and Sofia, they started with nothing, now they are millionaires !!!... And still the people of Spain have to pay Royal taxes and fees for those "suckopteros" to have vacations on the last corner of the world, private jets, servants, first education, first healths providers...while there's people in Spain that can't pay a single appartment not to mention vacations. Why ?.

Can someone tells me what goods brings the monarchy to any country ?.

Can someone tell me what DO I HAVE TO PAY to have one Letizia, if Felipe was born with the so called "blue blood" that's not Letizias case....she's nothing, just like you and me but was cold enough to scalate ... and even if the marriage was for LOVE, so what ? I did get marry in love and noone pay my bills..... why do I have to pay for that &*^%&&^ so called Princess ?. She's NOTHING and means NOTHING to me and to my family. After Juan Carlos I don't give a dime for the Monarchy in Spain.

If anyone could be a Princess, anyone could be a King or what is better, No More Royal Family Anymore !!!.

Many people who are now millionaires and billionaires started with nothing and now have access to or even own several private jets, own mansions and self-described palaces and their children get the very best education money can offer. So I don't think Juan Carlos and Sofia are unlike others.

While Felipe could've married someone who had blue blood he did not. And while he married a commoner its not as if he and Letizia sit around their home watching television and "hanging out" all on the Spanish tax payer's expense. While they certainly have a cushier life than most others, Felipe and Letizia also work very hard on behalf of the Spanish people -- even if you do not value that work. Consider how exttensively they travelled in the weeks and months after their wedding to represent Spain, from within and around Spain to Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

I think the asset of royals is that because they are neutral they can represent their country completely without undertones of politics or partisan values. And when you have royals to represent you, you allow the government to focus on developing and improving policies that would best serve your people rather than flying half way around the world to meet a new incoming president. Think about how much time Felipe and Letizia have sent since May in South America, from their visit to meet President Fox and earlier this month to attend the innauguration of the new incoming president of the Dominican Republic. Nearly two weeks combined spent on both those trips which, while nation building and nation supporting, would've taken the President/Prime Minister away from working to better Spain. And even if he had gone, he would've represented a certain set of political values -- values that if Felipe and Letizia have or share or disagree with were not as evident.

Monarchies are representatives of their countries and act as bridges between the various political parties. Consider the aftermath of the March 11 attacks in Spain. Many Spaniards were upset with Anzar's government for sending Spanish troops into the war in the first place and the new incoming government opposed the war. And in the middle were the royal family who grieved and mourned with the nation in a way that neither of the party leaders could.

Genevieve 08-21-2004 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P******
There's maybe no censorship in other subjets in Spain, but when it comes to the Monarchy oh yes... It sure there is... Look what the papers did with Eva Sanum and other Felipe's girlfriends, the press did butch meat with them and all whith the annuence of Juan Carlos and Sofia... but now because Felipe gave an ultimatum they put their marketing dogs to work and they are being shouting mouthes since the fiance's announcement cirque. And almost nobody wants to publish anything bad or about the pass of Letizia because they know they can't loose their jobs, their friends, everything, is just one of those non written laws. Everybody know that in Spain. I don't mean to sound bitter or rude, but this is the true and nothing else. Did you know that even Letizia's divorce papers are in one security box, under seven keys ? Ask yourself why and why no one ask about it... Everybody knows (because we are not dumbs) that Letizia was still legally married when she and the Prince was hanging around and she just become divorce on the days before the royal marriage.

Nobody has ever been able to prove that there is censorship in Spain, related to the monarchy or reaching outside of it. In this thread especially some people keep bringing it up but nobody has any proof of it. A very good point I see here: if there is legimately censorship in Spain, why are ex-pats not exposing the truth about the monarchy? Perhaps because there is no truth in these allegations?

As far as I see, the Spanish media is not doing anything different than what the Danish media are doing. The Spanish media want access to the royal family because there is interest by their readers and viewers. They would not be critical of Letizia, her divorce, her family, her clothes, her hair, or whatever for fear of being cut off from the royal court. If they were to say now that Letizia is inappropriate for the role of Queen, when Letizia has her first baby the royal court would no doubt prevent them access to the official presentation of the baby or send them news updates or pictures.

And while ideally the media should be objective, fair and honest, when it comes down to it, the media is a business like any other. Publishers and CEOS and producers want their newspapers, magazines, television networks to make money so that they can make money in turn. And as long as Letizia draws interest good or bad and sells those papers and magazines and news shows through their ads and commercials, then the media will continue to cozy up to the royal house so that they can continue their access.

The same goes in Denmark with CP Mary. Nobody is screaming censorship in Denmark because not a single drop of negative ink has been spilled about Mary. She is an international fashion icon, she is an inspiration to Hollywood, she is a star in Athens, she is the prettiest CP in all of Europe, she is the smartest woman on earth, etc. The Danish media wants to be there when Mary has her first baby and if they make criticisms of her, even light or honest ones, they know that they will be cut off from her and the rest of the royal family by extension.

As for Letizia's divorce papers, why should the media have access to it? Letizia's divorce is nobody's business but hers and that of her ex-husband's.

And if your speculations -- and that is all they are -- are right that Letizia and Felipe were friends before her divorce was final -- so what? Was Letizia not allowed to have any male friends until those divorce papers were signed? Even if her marriage was obviously over and she and her husband were living seperate lives, was she supposed to walk around with a big M on her chest stating that she was married and hence could not have male friends until her divorce was final? So what if they were friends? Women seperated from their husbands, or even married women aren't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex?

lucys 08-21-2004 12:28 PM

I would suggest that you ignore the posts by this newest member--the board name this person has selected says all you need to know. It is a flagrant insult and should not be permitted on this board. This poster has come only to speak ill and spread salacious gossip in an effort to slander another persons reputation. Ignoring this poster, IMO, is the best option.

Ennyllorac 08-21-2004 12:44 PM

Very well said Genevieve!

Alexandria 08-21-2004 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucys
I would suggest that you ignore the posts by this newest member--the board name this person has selected says all you need to know. It is a flagrant insult and should not be permitted on this board. This poster has come only to speak ill and spread salacious gossip in an effort to slander another persons reputation. Ignoring this poster, IMO, is the best option.

Thank you lucys very much. This matter is being looked into and will be resolved ASAP with the member.

Conde Valleverde 08-21-2004 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genevieve
Nobody has ever been able to prove that there is censorship in Spain, related to the monarchy or reaching outside of it. In this thread especially some people keep bringing it up but nobody has any proof of it. A very good point I see here: if there is legimately censorship in Spain, why are ex-pats not exposing the truth about the monarchy? Perhaps because there is no truth in these allegations?

As far as I see, the Spanish media is not doing anything different than what the Danish media are doing. The Spanish media want access to the royal family because there is interest by their readers and viewers. They would not be critical of Letizia, her divorce, her family, her clothes, her hair, or whatever for fear of being cut off from the royal court. If they were to say now that Letizia is inappropriate for the role of Queen, when Letizia has her first baby the royal court would no doubt prevent them access to the official presentation of the baby or send them news updates or pictures.

And while ideally the media should be objective, fair and honest, when it comes down to it, the media is a business like any other. Publishers and CEOS and producers want their newspapers, magazines, television networks to make money so that they can make money in turn. And as long as Letizia draws interest good or bad and sells those papers and magazines and news shows through their ads and commercials, then the media will continue to cozy up to the royal house so that they can continue their access.

The same goes in Denmark with CP Mary. Nobody is screaming censorship in Denmark because not a single drop of negative ink has been spilled about Mary. She is an international fashion icon, she is an inspiration to Hollywood, she is a star in Athens, she is the prettiest CP in all of Europe, she is the smartest woman on earth, etc. The Danish media wants to be there when Mary has her first baby and if they make criticisms of her, even light or honest ones, they know that they will be cut off from her and the rest of the royal family by extension.

As for Letizia's divorce papers, why should the media have access to it? Letizia's divorce is nobody's business but hers and that of her ex-husband's.

And if your speculations -- and that is all they are -- are right that Letizia and Felipe were friends before her divorce was final -- so what? Was Letizia not allowed to have any male friends until those divorce papers were signed? Even if her marriage was obviously over and she and her husband were living seperate lives, was she supposed to walk around with a big M on her chest stating that she was married and hence could not have male friends until her divorce was final? So what if they were friends? Women seperated from their husbands, or even married women aren't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex?

I agree with you Genevieve!!! :) :) :)

NJRedDevils 08-23-2004 02:19 AM

whether you like Spain's new Crown Princess or any other new Crown Princess or you don't.. At the end of the day your not married to them, CP Felipe, CP Frederik, CP Hakkon are married to them and they married them for love not for what you view their wives as. You don't like the Spanish Royal family or others tough luck they are there and there is nothing you can do about them and who they marry , whether you approve or not. i may not like the new Crown Princess of Spain but i don't insult her on a public board, i have my feelings and i keep them to myself and that is something you should do.

For most respect other members of this board they don't want to hear you bad mouthing someone that they like. You don't like her then don't come here go to another board.

CeroTolerancia 08-27-2004 04:03 AM

Of course, I will never married such person without character, I may not be rich not my husband but we are usefull to the society. Is all about principles. Once Letizia was the paradigm of the pro abortion, republican and atheist's womans in Spain, is nothing wrong with that, she told everyone she was proud to pay her own rent, she dosen't even like mans sending her flowers (she used to saw that as an machist attitude) there's a couple of cronics about it, and now all the sudden she's not only the real utherus but is kissing saint's feets all around every time, there's almost no picture without Letizia kissing San Fulano or San Mengano's feets, if the Monarchy believe that this marketing campaigne will be susccesfull they don't now who wrong their are, every day Letizia seems more distant to the people. Is so pathetic. Not to mention that now she live on our taxes and buy his clothes at the finest stores, she dosen't care anymore about her career, she left every principle, every conquist behind, everything for was she fought, but wait a minut...she has what she always wanted behind her progresive mask, lets see how long she can stand that life because she's not used to be the second and live mouth shut or be the last one in the list. And the monarchy, please, always playing the most conservative role, all those years...making butch meat of the other Felipe's girlfriends or friends without compasion or regards, even womans like Sartorious, who's not only from the same world but was never married before and was really pretty back on those days didn't scape from the press, noone was never good enough for the Prince in their parent's eyes, but suddently a divorced, pro abortion and non religious woman is the right one, of course, thanks to Felipe's ultimatum. After all he's 35, is now or never. Noone can denied the fact that if the press is not talking about Letizia, except for the good things, is because the Monarchy sent a message, subliminal or not, that this time nobody in the press could open the pandora's box like before, who wants to se a future daughter in law, princess of asturias, venting her life on the press. Oh Spanyards, you can pay for the princess but you cannot know about her past, you have to like her no matter what !. The King and the Queen may play the "Happiest persons in the whole word" but everybody knows that is all a facade. Oh not to mention Letizia's family, they will finish all in good positions and buying at Christian Dior is just a matter of time....The Queen Sofia especially has not and will never agree with such matrimony inside her soul, but she's polite and educated enought to keeping the sadness for herself and smart enough not to provoce an abdication because she cares a lot about the royal crown and the succesion, but a lot of people in Spain, and I mean A LOT, dosen't agree with and dosen't like Letizia, in fact the people here is Juancarlist, not Felipista and never the less Letizista. So the future of the Monarchy in Spain is not secure anymore because people say and not without reason: if anyone can be Queen anyone can be King. The only reason to maintain the monarchy is their "blue blood", their royal ancestors, their family, the good they did once for Spain's democracy, for other things there's the Prime Minister, besides that there's no need to maintain a lovely couple half monarch half proletary, why ? I'd never liked the monarchy but I get to understand they where a symbol, can someone tell me what is Letizia a symbol for ?.

lapopdiva 08-27-2004 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroTolerancia
Of course, I will never married such person without character, I may not be rich not my husband but we are usefull to the society. Is all about principles. Once Letizia was the paradigm of the pro abortion, republican and atheist's womans in Spain, is nothing wrong with that, she told everyone she was proud to pay her own rent, she dosen't even like mans sending her flowers (she used to saw that as an machist attitude) there's a couple of cronics about it, and now all the sudden she's not only the real utherus but is kissing saint's feets all around every time, there's almost no picture without Letizia kissing San Fulano or San Mengano's feets, if the Monarchy believe that this marketing campaigne will be susccesfull they don't now who wrong their are, every day Letizia seems more distant to the people. Is so pathetic. Not to mention that now she live on our taxes and buy his clothes at the finest stores, she dosen't care anymore about her career, she left every principle, every conquist behind, everything for was she fought, but wait a minut...she has what she always wanted behind her progresive mask, lets see how long she can stand that life because she's not used to be the second and live mouth shut or be the last one in the list. And the monarchy, please, always playing the most conservative role, all those years...making butch meat of the other Felipe's girlfriends or friends without compasion or regards, even womans like Sartorious, who's not only from the same world but was never married before and was really pretty back on those days didn't scape from the press, noone was never good enough for the Prince in their parent's eyes, but suddently a divorced, pro abortion and non religious woman is the right one, of course, thanks to Felipe's ultimatum. After all he's 35, is now or never. Noone can denied the fact that if the press is not talking about Letizia, except for the good things, is because the Monarchy sent a message, subliminal or not, that this time nobody in the press could open the pandora's box like before, who wants to se a future daughter in law, princess of asturias, venting her life on the press. Oh Spanyards, you can pay for the princess but you cannot know about her past, you have to like her no matter what !. The King and the Queen may play the "Happiest persons in the whole word" but everybody knows that is all a facade. Oh not to mention Letizia's family, they will finish all in good positions and buying at Christian Dior is just a matter of time....The Queen Sofia especially has not and will never agree with such matrimony inside her soul, but she's polite and educated enought to keeping the sadness for herself and smart enough not to provoce an abdication because she cares a lot about the royal crown and the succesion, but a lot of people in Spain, and I mean A LOT, dosen't agree with and dosen't like Letizia, in fact the people here is Juancarlist, not Felipista and never the less Letizista. So the future of the Monarchy in Spain is not secure anymore because people say and not without reason: if anyone can be Queen anyone can be King. The only reason to maintain the monarchy is their "blue blood", their royal ancestors, their family, the good they did once for Spain's democracy, for other things there's the Prime Minister, besides that there's no need to maintain a lovely couple half monarch half proletary, why ? I'd never liked the monarchy but I get to understand they where a symbol, can someone tell me what is Letizia a symbol for ?.

Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía, according to has been able to confirm Elsemanaldigital.com, very are satisfied with how the news of the connection of Princes de Asturias as well as of the high degree of acceptance of the future Queen of Spain by the public opinion has been developed. From the first moment at which Don Felipe presented/displayed to its fiancèe in the Zarzuela took place a great current of affection between Doña Sofía and Doña Letizia, they have indicated sources next to the Real House. Mainly the common tastes by Literature and music have turned them great friends from a first moment. To Reina it pleased the interest to him that had Doña Letizia to at night attend Monday the concert of tribute of the Russian violoncelista Mstislav Rostropovich. Doña Sofía the decision made by Don Felipe has not surprised him anything. When one found out that relation knew that there would be many common points, like the world of the media, that always has fascinated and interested enormously to Don Felipe, as well as the international policy. The prudence of Doña Letizia, but simultaneously its clarity of judgment and maturity, is another subject that has approached Reina with its future daughter-in-law. Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía also has valued who Doña Letizia, journalist daughter and granddaughter of journalists, has maintained with as much discretion the relation that maintained with Prince de Asturias. Although they are known personally from September of 2002, sources of the Zarzuela have also confirmed that the engagement of Princes de Asturias has been very fast.THAT WAS IN NOVEMBER 2003. LETS GO TO AUGUST 2004.
SPECTACULAR SUCCESS Doña Letizia has become the star of the Borbones the critics of before and after the wedding they have been very back, the summer of 2004 has consecrated Doña Letizia as the great star of the Borbones, dear and respected woman. 8 of August. That the Prince is another person, nobody it doubt. That the Royal Family has received with the opened arms to Doña Letizia either is no secret. But that so just a short time Doña Letizia has become the more popular European Princess and the woman of the photographed and followed royalty more it has turned everything a phenomenon that has surprised same Don Juan Carlos. A morning in the Naútico the best example of all it is to see how its presence is lived in the Navigation of Palm where it has become only center of attention and where it revolutionizes with his presence the sport facilities. The Real Club Nautical of Palm lived for example Friday, of eleven in the morning to twelve of the noon, the most intense hour since the past Monday the Glass of the King Of the hand of prince Felipe began and accompanied by the Its Majestys Kings, Doña Letizia Ortiz stepped on the sport facilities for the first time. And the debut had the ingredients of the great occasions: races and pushes of credited reporters, escorts more nervous of habitual, the organizing thing looking for its place in the picture and a peculiar multitude of digital camera in hand exerting of unexpected reporters. The protagonist smiled resolute and interchanged commentaries with Reina, but at no moment was it overwhelmed to have to support as much attention. It dressed white trousers and pink t-shirt. And after putting with the Prince and the Kings in the terrace of Navigation, it accompanied them until the cafeteria, where it occupied next to the Prince and Reina a table in one of the corners of the premises and shared animated conversation with the regatistas that were there. Nerves in the terrace When char it infant Cristina was united, who patronea the Azur de Puig. Reina requested a water without gas and Doña Letizia a Coca-Cola. The bar was the refuge that protected them of the reporters who waited their opportunity after the security cord that the escorts had mounted in the terrace, where everything were nerves to obtain one more a photo of the Princess. As much he is thus, that when the King to eleven and the twenty left the cafeteria to embark next to his crew in the rubber dinghy that habitually takes it until the dockage of the Loafer, no camera went off and no reporter followed it. The King happened more in front of the group like a regatista. In this occasion the topic that yes equals it to its resemblances was really certain. Goodbye and commentary the time urged to the regatistas. Some of the sailboats began to cast off. Doña Letizia took leave of the Prince, pattern of sailboat CAM, affectionately. Later it remained minutes more in the cafeteria talking with Reina, that went away to turn particular his cicerone by Navigation. From the cafeteria to the store of the club mounted specially in the occasion of the Glass of King Doña Sofía she warned aloud that she did not want photos there inside, request that the escorts understood perfectly. It gave a general glance and the Vanguard went with Doña Letizia until the exhibitor of the newspaper. Jokes with the journalists Reina and Princess de Asturias greeted and talked during minutes with Mariàngel journalist Palace, that habitually covers the information with the Royal Family, as well as with Jaime Enseñat There, president of the organizing committee of the Glass, that was united to the conversation. The return by Navigation continued, although this time by inaccessible dependencies for the informers. Minutes later Doña Letizia and Reina returned to appear, but this time arranged to line up the exit. However, Doña Letizia before wanted to return to stop and to greet some old companions of profession, like Carmen Rigalt, Carmen Enríquez or Maria Eugenia Yagüe, before those who I joke ': "I am going to put the uniform to me of the regatas so that you get tired to do photos to me". Likeable but in its site the rest of the conversation, in which also Reina took part, was full of commitment phrases. Doña Letizia asked if the journalists went every day to Navigation and Reina if the lights already distinguished each navigation two-color pencils. After leaving Navigation, Doña Letizia, Reina, Irene of Greece and the Fruchaud marriage they moved until the Formentor hotel, where they had lunch in the terace.So what the problem?

Conde Valleverde 08-28-2004 08:52 PM

Our Monarchy, since its restauration in 1975, has been the Monarchy "of all Spaniards", a framework of liberties and freedom never known before in the entire history of Spain. The individual and collective freedom has never been so well preserved thanks to this framework, not to mention the international prestige of Spain due to the fact of having a King as a head of State, who has family links with most European royal families, and therefore is the best ambassador of Spain.

rosa 01-12-2005 04:12 AM

The Spanish people: Juan Carlist vs. Royalist?
 
at the time of wedding of prince felipe, I heard on french tv, that spanich people are more juan carliste than royaliste, is it true?

personnaly, I think that spanich royal family is the more pleasant in europe

Alexandria 01-12-2005 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosa
at the time of wedding of prince felipe, I heard on french tv, that spanich people are more juan carliste than royaliste, is it true?

personnaly, I think that spanich royal family is the more pleasant in europe

I think the Spanish people really admire the King for all that he has been able to do in terms of the monarchy following the death of Franco. Many people had their own doubts about a monarchy but also about a man (Juan Carlos) who was "groomed" by a man such as Franco. But I think the King, along with the Queen, have both worked tremendously hard to make Spain a democratic nation and that both have represented their country very well.

I think there is some "concern" about how Felipe will take on the role. While he is very well liked, his father's shoes are tremendous to fill. But if Felipe is anything like his father's son, he will do a very good job for Spain, too, I think. (He already is doing a very impressive job.)

rosa 01-13-2005 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandria
I think the Spanish people really admire the King for all that he has been able to do in terms of the monarchy following the death of Franco. Many people had their own doubts about a monarchy but also about a man (Juan Carlos) who was "groomed" by a man such as Franco. But I think the King, along with the Queen, have both worked tremendously hard to make Spain a democratic nation and that both have represented their country very well.

I think there is some "concern" about how Felipe will take on the role. While he is very well liked, his father's shoes are tremendous to fill. But if Felipe is anything like his father's son, he will do a very good job for Spain, too, I think. (He already is doing a very impressive job.)

I agree with you, the king work a lot for Spain, and it will be difficult to equalize him, but I also think that prince Felipe is an intelligent man, he will be also a good king


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