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Shalu 07-12-2003 01:57 AM

Queen Rania - romours about Cosmetic Surgery
 
Hey everyone,

This is my first post but I've been reading the messages for awhile. Thanks for all the great pics. Anyway I had a question about QR- Does anyone know if she had cosmetic surgery of any kind? I was looking at early pics of her and they are sooooo different from the pics now. Her face has changed quite a bit... is this just natural as she has gotten older or due to changes in weight or do you think she had work done? If so, what kind of work?

Thanks.

Shalu.

https://pro.corbis.com/images/waterma...297993-020.jpg

https://pro.corbis.com/images/waterma...383669-016.jpg

almahboubah 07-12-2003 08:54 AM

The picture at the top is a very old one and QR was PREGNANT . So, naturally she looks different-hormones and stuff...
I don't think she has had any cosmetic surgery.

Alexandria 07-12-2003 11:28 AM

I agree, I think Rania has lost a lot of weight from when she first joined the royal family and it seems more like she's had a make over rather than cosmetic surgery. I noticed from the first picture to the second Rania has thinned her eyebrows a bit more, wears lighter coloured eyeshadow and her hair colour is different for example.

And of course times and fashion and makeup styles change, too, all to make us look better and younger even when we are older! :P

Shalu 07-12-2003 11:36 AM

Thanks,

Yea, that's probably the case (weight loss, makeover) but I think I remember somewhere that she may have had her nose done right after her engagement but I'm not sure exactly where or if it was a reputable source. I remember seeing pics of Rania where her nose was wider than it is now. I'll see if I can find them.

Shalu.

Aisha 07-12-2003 04:15 PM

Shame on you, Shalu, for spreading undocumented rumors about Queen Rania. Better watch out or "Queen" Julia and "The Community" will delete your messages.

Shalu 07-12-2003 04:55 PM

Aisha,

I am NOT as you say, spreading rumors about QR... I am simply asking your opinions about something I had heard. If you do not wish to contribute, that's fine but I am in no way alleging that she had any plastic surgery but just find it interesting how much she has transformed herself... be it thru weight loss, makeup, hair OR if you are so inclined to believe, surgery. That's all.

I myself did write that I do not know that it was a reputable source that claimed this and had hoped that we are all mature enough to realize that as well as the fact that QR herself is human and if she feels that she wanted to change herself for whatever reason, it's her choice and not for us to make character judgements.

Anyway, I don't want to get off to a bad start so I'm sorry if any of my posts offended anyone. Also, I'm new to this board so if you could please inform me who is "Queen Julia" is, that would be great.

Shalu.

nicole 07-14-2003 03:51 PM

Shalu,

I also wondered about whether Rania had anything done to her face b/c she looks so different even from when she first became queen. So I've looked at old pictures and more recent pictures of her and what I think happened is that she has so much more money to spend on the right clothes, make-up and hair. She's also lost A LOT of weight. In Amman for a while they thought she was anorexic--I think it must be really difficult to be in front of the camera being judged by everyone so I think she felt like she had to loose an immense amount of weight even thought she had a perfect figure when she first became queen.

Also you have to remember is that now she has A LOT more money to spend on clothes and the best hair and make-up. When she was a princess their income was limited unlike now. I'm sure you can agree w/ me that the right out fit, hair and make-up can transform even the less attractive--look at Celin Dion for instance. Luckily for Rania is that she's very attractive to begin with.

I'm really happy that you asked that question b/c I've been wanting to discuss it w/ someone.

Nicole

almahboubah 07-15-2003 01:31 PM

queen rania's pretty now

almahboubah 07-15-2003 01:38 PM

I'm not sure about VERY pretty to begin with....but she's certainly very pretty now and that's because of the designer clothing and top hair-stylists and make-up artists.
Queen Rania is certainly thin and I must admit that when I saw pictures of her when she was in Italy receiving an award a few months ago, she looked very worryingly skinny....though she looks a lot healthier now.

shannen26 07-18-2003 01:56 PM

Aisha,

we all know what kind of lies , and I won't add more, u were trying to spread, I just wonder why and who are u.

Fireweaver 07-20-2003 02:06 PM

Actually, it's a valid question as it has been rumored that like Queen Noor, that Queen Raina had gotten a nose job.

nicole 07-20-2003 10:28 PM

Queen Noor not only has gotten a nose job but she also has had and continues to have work done on her lips.

Shasta 07-21-2003 11:49 PM

I'm glad you brought up the subject of Queen Noor's lips -- I saw her on Larry King and couldn't stop staring. Her lips look so weird! She is such a beautiful woman and she's started to have the unreal look of Melanie Griffith.

Yea, I'd say Rania and Noor both had nose jobs. Doesn't make them bad people...just two women who wanted to have more photogenic noses. I think even the most average nose can look too big when you see it on the cover of a magazine.

Noses I can understand. The lips just look odd.

Yennie 08-28-2003 06:40 PM

Aisha, she was just stating her opinion. Its up to you, and the rest of us!, to belive it or not

Bubbette 11-06-2003 11:02 AM

I think there is a picture somewhere on this board of Rania pre marriage. It does look like her nose was thinned a little bit, just like Noor's was. They both had great surgeons--I'd love to know who did it in case I get some!

Humera 11-24-2003 02:48 AM

This story's two years old and I dont know if it's been discussed on this forum before, but i just had to post this article:

Jeweller to make gold shoes fit for a queen

An Indian jeweller has been hired to make golden shoes for Jordan's Queen Rania Al-Abdullah.

The Calcutta jeweller, who wants to remain anonymous, has been asked to make two pairs of 22 carat gold shoes.

Each pair will weigh 750 grams and will be embellished with diamonds and topaz.

The Bengali daily newspaper Anandabazar Patrika reports the jeweller said: "The queen used to get her shoes designed in Peshawar but they were not made of pure gold, only gold threads were used on the leather.

"The shoes she wants now will be made from pure gold without leather or foam."

The newspaper says Jordanian officials had reportedly paid an advance of 34,468 for the job and the remainder, "a substantial amount of money", will be paid after delivery.

The jeweller says he has imported three kilograms of gold from London to be used in the making of the shoes over the next two months.


Story filed: 18:19 Thursday 20th December 2001 (Ananova)

Humera 11-24-2003 03:00 AM

what i dont get is why she would indulge in something so frivolous
I've read interviews in which she's said that it didnt make sense for her to buy a new tiara when she was only going to wear it a few times and could just borrow it from her sister-in-law.
I personally haven't seen her wearing these gold shoes.
I was wondering if some of you know whether this story's true or not.
If it is, i personally would've preferred her buying a new tiara..atleast its useful on state visits and other such occasions.

Banadoora 11-24-2003 03:05 AM

I've never heard of this story before. I'd be surprised if it were true. Why would she borrow a tiara for the coronation and buy gold shoes later on? It doesn't make any sense to me. :unsure:

Sean.~ 11-24-2003 03:51 AM

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Sean.~ 11-24-2003 03:58 AM

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Humera 11-24-2003 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 24th, 2003 - 2:58 am
It would also look odd to have the Queen of a poor, third world country decked out in a diamond tiara at official events within Jordan. I think it would result in some resentment.
i think having two pairs of gold shoes studded with diamonds is just as odd and more importantly, incredibly frivolous.
I mean, i get the whole expensive clothes and everything because she's a queen and she's supposed to dress like that, but this gold shoes thing sounds too wierd to me.
I guess she's entitled to her little whims once in a while, she is a queen after all.
Besides, i've never seen her decked out in outrageously expensive jewellery like the women of many other royal families.

Sean.~ 11-24-2003 04:30 AM

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Humera 11-24-2003 04:57 AM

I dont agree with you about the jewellery. I've seen hundreds of pictures of Rania and her jewellery pieces are usually smaller necklaces or earings. I've never seen her wear huge diamond necklaces or bracelets or broches. Nothing like what Princess Diana had for sure. Rania wore the same little necklace and earings set on two different occasions during her last trip to the US for example.
Maybe she only likes simple jewellery or maybe she just doesnt want to raise too many eyebrows, but i've always thought of her as a woman who prefer simplicity and elegance over drama.
Im a girl who loves jewellery and I always pay attention to what Rania wears and im pretty sure that she doesnt over-indulge in jewellery. Sure, she has some expensive pieces but they are by no means substantial. And its not like she has a new piece at every other social occasion. Most of the time, she just has her wedding ring on and maybe a pair of simple earings.
Some of the women i know seem to have a bigger jewellery collection than Rania does! If you've ever seen a typical Pakistani bride's jewellery trousseau, Rania wont seem so bad. ;)

Humera 11-24-2003 05:14 AM

by the way, i dont live in the Middle East so i dont know exactly how Rania is perceived by the people of Jordan. I once read an article that said the Queen Noor was once blamed for her expensive taste in clothes..so i dont exactly know what to believe. Im sure various groups of people have their own reasons for criticizing Rania, or Noor for that matter.
I admit that Rania could manage to reduce her spending on expensive clothes but i also think that her image is important in terms of PR.
The West has ambivalent feelings about muslims and the Middle East. Women like Rania, however, are received here and not looked upon with suspicion.
If her image draws good attention to her country and the region then thats good.

Sean.~ 11-24-2003 05:16 AM

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Sean.~ 11-24-2003 05:25 AM

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yazz 11-24-2003 07:46 AM

This story simply shows the difference between what somebody can say and what somebody can do. :(
The other thing is that in democratic countries, the royal families' expenditures are strongly supervised by the parliament and the press. Such a thing couldn't happen anymore in European countries, and you can be sure Princess Mathilde would very disputed in Belgium if she was wearing such expensives designers' clothes. That's why Rania is the only Queen in the world who take herself for a showbizz star: she is the only one allowed to spend so much money.

Humera 11-24-2003 11:54 AM

Well I do agree Sean that her pieces may be expensive, but they are simple. If the whole superstar thing is part of her image, atleast she's not going all out like many Hollywood actresses. I certainly haven't seen her wearing the elaborate pieces like huge chandelier earings (well not yet anyway) that are so popular nowadays.
I suppose its always controversial when a woman like Rania spends so much money on clothes and stuff. I remember when Diana was alive she was criticized for the size of her wardrobe a lot, although she did recycle her outifts.
I do admit i've never seen Rania wearing the same outfit twice. I've seen Queen Noor do so as well as other royal ladies.
I guess Rania's taking full advantage of her privileged position as a queen. I dont remember her getting so much attention as a princess.

I do wish that I knew what exactly the gold shoes were for...she certainly seems to have hidden them well. I haven't seen a single picture of them.

Humera 11-24-2003 12:18 PM

one thing I forgot to add is that I wonder if we're all getting the whole picture here.
Something that's been mentioned on this forum before is the possibility that Rania gets many of her things simply given to her by design houses. I mean, designers do seem to love her. She's been pictured with Jean Paul Gautier and Armani, who recently called her the most alluring woman in the world. So im quite sure that designers give her things to wear like they do to most hollywood celebrities.
Couldn't the same be said for jewellery or shoes?

Alexandria 11-24-2003 12:22 PM

Back to the gold shoes for a moment ... I've never seen Queen Rania's gold shoes, but there was a formal family portrait around the time Salma was one or almost a year old in which the little baby was sporting gold shoes ... Perhaps they were made from the remnants of her mother's shoes?!

zhontella 11-24-2003 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 24th, 2003 - 1:16 am
And all of her pieces are new. Conversely, Diana's pieces and those of the other European ladies were accumulated over time by past Queens. If you look women like the Queen of Denmark, Alexandra of Denmark, Queen Silvia, Queen Sonja, Queen Paola..............................
Are there past Jordanian queens from whom Rania could have inherited her jewels? If so, why didn't these jewels get passed down to the present queen of Jordan?

Sean.~ 11-24-2003 02:46 PM

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mybags 11-24-2003 03:01 PM

It does seem rather odd to see money wasted on something that Queen Rania would probably never wear. I was re-reading Queen Noor's autobiography and she said that she restricted her use of tiaras. She only wore them when they were on a State Visit to a country with a monarch.

Humera 11-25-2003 02:56 AM

Im sure some of the royal ladies could easily lend Rania some of their jewellery or tiaras like Princess Haya did. I believe Queen Noor has more than one tiara and she rarely wears them anymore, especially now that she doesnt seem to represent Jordan on official state visits. She could easily lend them to Rania.
I dont know if its true or not but perhaps its because they dont get along too well.

Sean.~ 11-25-2003 04:01 AM

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Sean.~ 11-25-2003 05:28 AM

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zhontella 11-25-2003 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 25th, 2003 - 1:28 am
So you see, she has a penchant for fine jewellry and, unlike the European royal ladies, all of her stuff is new.
I should think this would not be a criticism since as you admitted, she hasn't been the recipient of hand-me-down jewelry as the European royal ladies. Thus, in order to be comparable to other royalty, Rania needs to buy new stuff.

Sean.~ 11-25-2003 04:00 PM

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pegassuss2525 11-25-2003 05:47 PM

Please remember that jewelry designers just like clothes designers, either give or sell their pieces at huge discounts to celebs and royalty. Also jewelry in the Middle East is a lot cheaper than it is elsewhere.

I fully understand that Jordan is a third world country. However Rania especially, and the Royal Family in general are constantly critized no matter how they dress. If they dress in the fashion of the country then there are complaints heard that they are representing Jordan and shouldn't make Jordan seem like a backward country. If they dress as other Royal Families do then there are the complaints that Jordan is a poor country and they shouldn't spend extravagant amounts of money on clothes and such. The Royal Family, like any other "celebs" do get HUGE discounts. It is advertisement for the design houses, be it jewelry, clothes, shoes, handbags, or whatever. The Royal Family of Jordan is really not the different than the Royal Families of other countries. They have a huge personal fortune unlike most other Royal Families that must depend on state funds. The Royal Family also uses that fortune to help the underprivileged in their country.

zhontella 11-25-2003 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 25th, 2003 - 12:00 pm
It is indeed a criticism because:

a). Jordan is a Third World country were the average per capita income is below $1700 (and in the Palestinian refugee camps it is well below that). Jordan isn't Monaco or Sweden.

You forget that Saddam's daughters found refuge in Jordan, and as a result Jordan may have received some of the billions of missing Saddam money.

Also, to say "the average per capita income is below $1700" has little meaning without also knowing the cost of living and the amount of government welfare supplied per capita.

Sean.~ 11-25-2003 07:56 PM

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zhontella 11-25-2003 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 25th, 2003 - 3:56 pm
............................will sevre to ameliorate the lives of the average Jordanians a bit more than the few crumbs the royal family throws to some of the so-called "underprivileged".

Regards,

S.

I can sympathize with your sentiments here. However, it's probably safe to say that most royal families live and dress far beyond the means of their average subjects. So then what is the purpose of any monarchy? Someone over on one of the Greek threads once said the purpose of a monarchy is to make the average Joe feel poor and inconsequential. Is this perhaps the source of your angst against the splendor portrayed by Queen Rania?

To put this into perspective, what are the potential consequences of a ruling royal family who lives down to represent the poorest of their subjects? Would this display of destitution leave them vulnerable to attack by *richer* countries?

It is said that "the art of succesful warfare is often won by the art of illusion". Do you think this is just meaningless hocus pocus?

pegassuss2525 11-25-2003 10:20 PM

"As someone who purcheses from these houses, find it incredibly hard to believe that any jewel house -- Caritier, Bvlgari, Winston et al. -- would give away dozens of pairs of earings etc. valued at tens of thousands of dollars each. Do you have proof to back-up this assertion?"

Do you have proof that they don't? Simply because you don't get these discounts doesn't mean that they are not done. Vera Wang does it all the time in order for the publicity.

"fully understand that Jordan is a third world country.
Do you? Are you also aware of the substantial amount of aid it receives on a per annum basis? I certainly resent my dollars (even indirectly ) going to clothe Rania in expensive designer clothing and top of the line jewelry. "

Yes, I do most certainly know that Jordan is considered a Third world country but did you read the entire post? The Jordan Royal Family has an extensive fortune which I am pretty much certain pays for the clothes and jewelry. Your money goes to the government of Jordan not the Royal Family for personal use. That can be easily documented and tracked.

"Well, that is not carte blanche to spend excessive amounts on clothes and jewels."

I didn't say that it did but can you even really prove that she spends that much? The pictures you pointed to on the earrings looked like the same ones. I am simply saying that it really doesn't matter what she does, because people will find a reason to critize her. Yes I fully understand that Royalty are not Celebs but they are actually held to a higher standard. Royalty is expected to look terrific all the time.

"Arab fashion is not backward, as far as I'm concerned. She dresses the way she does because she enjoys nice clothing"

I never said that Middle Eastern fashion was backward but some people do. When she represents the country wearing national dress, even Jordanian people have complained that it makes them look backward and not in the present century. Yes she may like to shop and may like to wear nice clothes, but honestly if you were in her position with her wealth would it be any different? I am not saying that she isn't proud of her country. Please understand, when your own people complain about it, what is she to do? As for comparing the Queen of Nepal with Queen Rania, that is like comparing Apples to Oranges. They are two totally different cultures with totally different views on how women should behave.

" please name me one other Queen who accept clothing AND jewels at huge discounts?"

Queen Elizabeth, Princess Anne, Princess Diana, almost any of the British royals if not all. The former Empress of Iran. Even Laura Bush gets huge discounts.

"Perhaps cutting down the size of the oligarchy, the corruption, and democratizing the country's institutions "

Isn't that what the US used as an excuse for invading Iraq? I believe that is a very simplified belief.

Sean.~ 11-25-2003 11:27 PM

You fail to comprehend that one can look good without spending tens of thousands of dollars on jewels and gold shoes (as far as I know she didnt' get a discount from the shoemaker, who has no reason to lie).



Quote:

As someone who purcheses from these houses, find it incredibly hard to believe that any jewel house -- Caritier, Bvlgari, Winston et al. -- would give away dozens of pairs of earings etc. valued at tens of thousands of dollars each. Do you have proof to back-up this assertion?"

Do you have proof that they don't?* Simply because you don't get these discounts doesn't mean that they are not done.* Vera Wang does it all the time in order for the publicity.

No, I don't have proof, that's why I wrote that I find it " hard to believe" and asked if *you* could back up your assertion that they do give things away for free. Simply saying that Vera Wang gives clothes away doesn't prove it (which clothes, when, and to whom? How can it be verified?). Besides, as far as I know, she doesn't make fine jewelry. Moreover, it would not be politically wise for the wife of a head of state -- any head of state -- going around accepting freebies. Thus I really do hope that she isn't going around accept freebies and that this is simply just an assumption on your part. Oh, and I have no need or want for discounts :)) I buy what I want, when I want it, but I know that I won't die if I don't have the very latest in every sinle designer item.

Quote:

Yes, I do most certainly know that Jordan is considered a Third world country but did you read the entire post?* The Jordan Royal Family has an extensive fortune which I am pretty much certain pays for the clothes and jewelry.* Your money goes to the government of Jordan not the Royal Family for personal use.* That can be easily documented and tracked.
Yes, I did read the entire post & I responded to it (although you seem to have assiduously clipped out my response in your cut and paste). I wrote that I am well aware of the family's vast fortune, but also asked you where you thought the money comes from. You are obviously not familiar with Jordanian politics, as the King receives a civil list. It is a part of the constitution. My money goes to the Jordanian government and the Jordanian government pays the King.

Also, contrary to your assertion, the money can *not* be easily tracked. Corruption among the ruling elites is legendary and the IMF and World Bank have routinely demanded transperancy and that corruption be curbed. In 2002 Jordan scored a 4.5, fairing a little better than Egypt, wich is nortoriously corrupt. Not all aid is earmarked for project funding at the time of disbursment either. However, if you can account for how every dollar in aid to Jordan is spent (that's *every* dollar), please point me in the right direction. Indeed, if you can, I'm sure the IMF and World Bank would *love* to have you on their teams.

Again, it isn't that it's my money that I'm concerned about per se, it's the perception that the Queen of a country receiving such substantial aid is in new expensive designer outfits and jewels every time she steps out. The average person doesn't think that she may or may not have received freebies and/or discounts.

Quote:

I didn't say that it did but can you even really prove that she spends that much?* The pictures you pointed to on the earrings looked like the same ones.*
They are actually not the same ones and I would inivite you to look again and/or secure original magazine pictures if you can. And it is the perception that she spends that much matters. She could remedy this by recycling her jewels and clothes like the European Queens do (and their countries don't have 15 percent unemployment like Jordan does).

Quote:

I am simply saying that it really doesn't matter what she does, because people will find a reason to critize her.* Yes I fully understand that Royalty are not Celebs but they are actually held to a higher standard.* Royalty is expected to look terrific all the time.
You are taking a fait accompli approach by saying it doesn't really matter what she does. Again, I reiterate, one can look "terrific" in the same clothes and the same jewels once in a while. The Queen of Sweden certainly manages to. The Queens of Great Britain and Holland are two of the richest women in the world, yet they very rarely wear "new" jewels and recycle their clothes. Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:

even Jordanian people have complained that it makes them look backward and not in the present century.* Yes she may like to shop and may like to wear nice clothes, but honestly if you were in her position with her wealth would it be any different?* I am not saying that she isn't proud of her country.* Please understand, when your own people complain about it, what is she to do?* As for comparing the Queen of Nepal with Queen Rania, that is like comparing Apples to Oranges.* They are two totally different cultures with totally different views on how women should behave.
The Jordanians I know only complain about her spending. And if I were the spouse (I don't hurt for money either) of the head of state of a very poor country dependent on foreign aid, I would control my spending (or the image of my spending) no matter how much money I had. It just doesn't look good. And do you know anything about Nepal? It is very similar to Jordan insofar as it is a poor country dependent on foreign aid with a patriarichal society (admitedly, Jordan is much more "advanced" when it comes to quality of life indexes). Just like Jordan, there women are held to be subordinate to men (and there are also honour kilings there) However, like Jordan, the Nepali elite (both men and women) are very well educated and women in Katmandu and other urban areas work as professionals and even wear pants (shocker)!!!

Quote:

" please name me one other Queen who accept clothing AND jewels at huge discounts?"

Queen Elizabeth, Princess Anne, Princess Diana, almost any of the British royals if not all.* The former Empress of Iran.* Even Laura Bush gets huge discounts.

So Queen Elizabeth and Princess Anne (and her title was Diana, Princess of Wales, by the way) get free jewels? From which house? I haven't seen them wear anything new (at least not substantial) in years. And from which house do they get discounted clothing? Even if they do, the the fact of the matter is that they recycle their outfits. Indeed, the Princess Royal wore the same dress she wore in the 1970s to an event in the new century. Again, I would be much obliged if you could provide proof to back up your assertion of free and/or discounted clothes and jewels.


Quote:

"Perhaps cutting down the size of the oligarchy, the corruption, and democratizing the country's institutions "

Isn't that what the US used as an excuse for invading Iraq?* I believe that is a very simplified belief.

No, it was not. Their excuse was Weapons of Mass Destruction & security, and that only changed later (and is still changing every other day). As someone who specializes in political economy and development (concentration in the Middle East), I would have to say that establishing democratic, transparent institutions, curbing courption, and reducing vested interests, and improving human rights, is not simplified at all. Such measures (preferably coupled with things like fair trade) will help ameliorate public disenchantment and help people feel that they have a stake in (and that they will benefit from) the development of the country. It is a lot better than the carrots and sticks approach currently being practiced in Jordan.

All the best,

S

Sean.~ 11-25-2003 11:49 PM

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Sean.~ 11-26-2003 12:56 AM

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beebee 11-26-2003 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Nov 25th, 2003 - 9:20 pm
"As someone who purcheses from these houses, find it incredibly hard to believe that any jewel house -- Caritier, Bvlgari, Winston et al. -- would give away dozens of pairs of earings etc. valued at tens of thousands of dollars each. Do you have proof to back-up this assertion?"

Do you have proof that they don't?* Simply because you don't get these discounts doesn't mean that they are not done.* Vera Wang does it all the time in order for the publicity.

Just popping in to say I agree with Sean on this one. Clothes designers do often give away clothes to celebrities, as a method of garnering free advertising.

However, when it comes to jewelers, I'm pretty sure there are no discounts, and there are definitely NO freebies. When JFK ordered a bulk load of Christmas presents from Tiffany one year in the White House, he was refused even the slightest discount. Also, I think it was Harry Winston who threatened legal action on Sharon Stone over a misunderstanding on some diamond jewelry she borrowed for one night and refused to return. And when celebrities attend the Oscars, those jewels they were are often on loan for one night only. The jewelers send out a couple bodyguards on those nights, not to protect the star so much as to protect the jewels she's wearing! The celeb is required to return the jewelry the very next day - I've read stories about women who get in trouble because they try to keep the jewels for a little longer. The top jewelers lay down very strict rules. Celebrities do get plenty of perks, but discounted diamonds are not one of them.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 03:26 AM

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Humera 11-26-2003 04:11 AM

Sean, regarding the earings..i wasn't referring to the many examples you've mentioned in your post, i specifically meant the huge chandelier earings that are so in vogue right now..the kind that Nicole Kidman seems to love. Rania has never worn anything like that. If she had, believe me i'd have noticed.

As for your comment regarding royalty not being celebrities, im afraid i'd have to disagree with you on that one. Royalty today is treated every bit like hollywood celebrities, that is precisely why there's so much curiosity surrounding their private lives and everything they do. Princess Diana was a perfect example. Royalty may not be *supposed* to act like celebrities but they're certainly treated, and thefore forced to act, like them.

As for Rania, her image is the best form of PR Jordan could have. Do you think that most people around the world care how much she spends on her clothes and jewellery? But they sure love looking at her. As shallow as it may sound but her image is perhaps the most important thing about her because its what people see first, before they even know her name or nationality. Fortunately in Rania's case, people have also come to respect her intelligence and humanitarian work.

As for the people of Jordan, i seem to recall some of them criticizing Queen Noor for spending too much on clothes. Im sure if Rania were to become more frugal today jordanians will find something else wrong with her. This issue is not serious enough to impede the governing process in Jordan or put the country in debt for heavens sake. Im sure there's a lot of envy and jealousy behind these complaints.

And yes we all know Jordan is a Third World country, but its been mentioned several times that the Hashemites are a wealthy family and can afford to have Rania dress in expensive clothes.
Third world countries have their share of the wealthy, and i bet there are women out there who are way more extravagant than Rania is, but are they picked on like Rania is? would you expect those women to be frugal just because the rest of their countrymen are poor? Rania spending less on clothes isn't going to end or even improve poverty in Jordan...so lets give the whole "third world country" thing a rest shall we?

I dont seem to recall people complaing about Rania's dressing habits when she was a princess. This transformation took place when she became a queen. She obviously felt that it was an important part of her image, especially since she's more active on the international scene today than any other royal female I can think of.

I dont endorse Rania's extravagance but neither do I think that this issue's important enough to warrant serious debate.
I hear more complaining about Rania's clothes and less appreciation for the marvelous social and humanitarian work she does, which is sad because its the latter that counts and that'll have lasting effects.

Humera 11-26-2003 04:25 AM

I agree with pegassuss2525 about the fact that none of us has actual proof of how much Rania spends on clothes and what money she's using to pay for them (whether its private family money or her allowance)
As for designers giving discounts and free clothes, I'm quite sure about that one. I have heard celebrities mention on countless occasions thay they're given clothes all the time. They even say "I borrowed it" from so and so designer. Most of them aren't silly enough to pay thousands of dollars for something they'll wear for once. I remember Fran Drescher wearing this cute suit on Leno a couple of months ago and she said that she actually bought it instead of borrowing it cuz she loved it so much. Celebrities mention this sort of thing at award shows all the time.
Since Rania seems to personally know quite a few designers, its quite likely that she's given discounts and that designers given away or maybe even lend clothes (especially dresses) to her...that could explain why she doesn't wear a lot of her things more than once.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 05:29 AM

Deleted.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 05:45 AM

Deleted.

pegassuss2525 11-26-2003 10:43 AM

I would really have to say that from your posts, Sean, you don't seem to like the Middle East ruling families let alone their culture or way of life. No one has said that the Jordanians are mean spirited but if they don't complain about Rania's clothes then they will find something to complain about, it is human nature. I do agree with a previous poster that it wasn't until Rania became Queen that the complaints began. They did the same for Noor and I truely don't think that she spent that much on her clothes.

You are not the only one with knowledge about the wealth of the Royal Family. Please keep in mind that others do have knowledge as well. They may not agree with you but then that is also human nature.

"As someone who specializes in political economy and development (concentration in the Middle East), I would have to say that establishing democratic, transparent institutions, curbing courption, and reducing vested interests, and improving human rights, is not simplified at all. "

It is a simplified version when you are looking at it from the view point that America's always right and the democratic government is the best and only form of government that should be in place. This may not be what you meant but it is how it came across. I too specialize in the Middle East. If you truely understand the culture and history, you would understand that democracy isn't always best. I am not saying that the Jordanians are little children that deserve to be led around but I am saying that the US cannot continually force its beliefs on a nation. Yes the Weapons were one reason why the US invaded Iraq but the other reason was the lack of a democratic society. There were other reasons as well. Also, I believe that the US needs to seriously work on the transparent institutions, curbing corruption, reducing vested interests, and improving human rights.

Please accept my apologies for not getting Diana's title correct but I really wasn't going for titles. I did say Princess Anne and not the Princess Royal. As for Rania's jewelry being new and the other Royal House not spending money on jewelry. If you had what was in the European houses vaults, you wouldn't need to spend any money on new jewelry. I have seen the European Royals were just as much if not more expensive jewelry then Rania has. But you seem to only be picking on Rania.

Now, back to the original topic of this post, the gold shoes story has been going around for some time. Personally I would like to know how one would walk in them.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 01:18 PM

Deleted.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 01:22 PM

Deleted.

pegassuss2525 11-26-2003 06:20 PM

"I've said a dozen times, that the European Queens are not Queens of poor Third World Countries. And even if they spent money on clothes and jewelry like Rania does, there would be an outcry."

That is where we differ on the matter. If any Royal spends as much on clothes, jewelry, whatever that Rania reportedly does, there would be an outcry and has been one. Granted, Jordan is a Third World country, but the Hashemites do have the money. Not all of it has come from the civil lists. Norway, Sweeden, Belguim, Luxumborg, Britain, and others are not that great financially either (country or family). Most of their wealth does come from the civil lists or belongs to the state. Their royals should not be seen spending money frivolously either. The outcry I am refering to occurred with Diana. Until the bills are made public, then what Rania or any other royal spends on fashion is simply speculation.

As far as the financial help that the US gives Jordan, they recently stopped holding the aid package hostage from the first gulf war. I understand that you want people to think and not to take things blindly. However, your posts on this subject came across as abrasive and antaginistic towards others. That is why I took offense. If it was not meant in that way, then I do apologize. Everyone has a right to their own opinions.

I apparently do not understand what is meant by "Chandelier Earrings". To me they are the huge dangly ones. The ones I saw in your links were cluster earrings. The pictures may not have been very good. As I have said previously though, jewelry in the Middle East is cheaper than jewelry in Europe. At least it was the last time I was there. Everyone seems to be under the assumption that Rania purchases her jewelry from the big houses. Perhaps some of it does come from there but because of the craftsmanship of some of her pieces; I would have to say that some comes from Jordan craftsmen also.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 07:40 PM

Deleted.

pegassuss2525 11-26-2003 09:35 PM

"Most of their wealth does come from the civil lists or belongs to the state. Their royals should not be seen spending money frivolously either.


Of course, that's what I've been saying all along. It would create an outcry. And, for the most part, they are very careful in the image that they portray. Rania could learn from them."

When I was talking about the Royals receiving most of their money from the civil lists, I wasn't talking about Jordan. I was talking about the others. I guess in your opinion that it is ok for any Royal of a first world country to spend whatever they like but it is wrong for a Queen of a third world country to supposedly spend the same amount. As I have said before, until you actually see the bills, you really don't know how much is being spent.

Sean.~ 11-26-2003 11:21 PM

Deleted.

Humera 11-27-2003 12:25 AM

Sean it seems to me that you're bent upon establishing some sort of connection between all of the Middle East's problems and Rania's spending habits. I think you overestimate the connection between the two.
It also over-simplifies the problems of Jordan.
Dont you think that the region's problems are more complex than a simple case of a spendthrift Queen? I dont hear too many people outside the region criticizing Rania for the same reasons? Maybe its because they simply dont see the connection between her clothing and the problems of her country.

As for the spendthrift royal families, the Hashemites are not the Russian Czars. We're talking about ONE single woman here. Its not the same thing. Im a student of history myself and know all about extravagant royal families. So please dont assume I dont know what Im talking about just because I dont agree with you. Im expressing an opinion just like you are, you dont seem to have any explicit proof of your argument either, you're basing it all on a perception and public opinion, which cant always be trusted.

Maher Arrar, the Canadian you spoke of, was tortured in Syria, not Jordan. But he stayed in Jordan for a couple of days before he was shipped off to Syria. Im a Canadian and share the outrage of my fellow countrymen regarding the way he was treated...I fully support his decision to sue Jordan along with the Syrians.

The fact that im supporting Rania's right to wear whatever she wants doesnt mean im endorsing her extravagance. I admit that she could present the same image if she were more frugal. When i mentioned that jordanians could easily find faults with Rania even if she stopped spending too much on clothes, i didnt mean that they were mean spirited..again, you're judging my argument on presumption
I was alluding to the fact that public opinion is never satisfied.
Women throughout history have been criticized for precisely the reasons Rania's being criticized for. But she's no Marie Antoinette and this isnt the 18th century. I would like to think that in 2003 we've evolved far beyond the point where a woman's clothing gets the blame for all the problems plaguing her country. And just because she's a Queen doesnt change the fact that its equally unfair when a member of a royal family or a commoner has the blame for all sorts of problems dumped on her just because she spends too much.
Yes a Queen is different in terms of her being in the public eye, but like i said before, public opinion is never satisfied and its rarely based on the absolute truth.

You also mentioned that Jordan's human rights record is bad despite her humanitarian work. She's been the Queen for less than five years for crying out loud. Do you expect her to solve all of the country's problems overnight? She is one woman. Atleast she's making an attempt to change things for the better. I dont think any other royal personality today is as active in various causes. Again, the fact that you're mentioning Jordan's violation of human rights and Rania's spending habits in the same post gives the perception that you're trying to blame the latter for the former.
Your argument would seem a lot more credible if you stuck to her extravagance and the criticism surrounding it. It is incredibly unfair to expect her to be accountable for all of problems that have plagued Jordan for decades.

Finally, to me its just over-simplifiying a complex situation and blaming scapegoats rather than looking for more practical solutions. When you've got more problems than you can handle, like many Jordanians do, its easy to blame others who are in a more privileged position in terms of wealth and power. Women always seem to be a favourite target.

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 01:33 AM

Deleted.

George 11-27-2003 03:22 AM

I know for a fact, I know a princess, and she once laughed, no, with jewels,
there is no discount in the major couture shops-Cartier, Tiffany's etc.: Barbara Hutton never got a discount, Princess so and so never did, so neither does Raina.
Couture clothing, that is a grey area, if she is wearing such and such a line,
then maybe, but if she is wearing one day so and so's line and next week so and
so's rival...hmmm, that may not be so easily discernable, but sometimes on
clothing yes, if you are considered "important enough" at the Chanel HQ to warrant
that, all the sales girls know who to ignore and who to attend to --which princess is
more important than her rival ...and such..

But in Major jewelry couture store? never. no discounts. If it is $ 1.2 milo=it is
$ 1.2 milo. Period.

Example> Eva Peron of Argentina-when the nation was going down and down
to the toilet, she was lavishing it up-so alot of leaders who should know better
and their wives do not.

Also, when money was entering the Argentines as "aid" what did the Juan Peron do? transfered it to a private Swiss account-that is no secret! the aid never went to the people-just some places for "show."*

I assume no one except Sean read in the pink Financial Times 1992 or 1995
about, Rusisan Boris Yeltsin was accused by US and Gr. Britian of skimming
all the aid funds from these two nations into their "own pocket accounts" which
never saw thelight of day nor made their way to the intended-the people to
help the economy!

I read that.

Oh, and did anyone recall reading the New York Times article whereby the wife
of Saddam Hussein was spending the "aid money" to buy at auction of
it was either Sotheby's or Christies auction house she spent alot of money-
that was clearly "earmarked for financial aid for Iraq under the specific terms
of the embargo as voted on by the U.N."*

$ 380 m illion went to her account and she was spending lavishly, so do not
tell Sean and I about how the money always goes to the people and not the
wives of leaders.

Put money on a table and see how long it lasts before a guest purloins it!
IT IS CALLED HUMAN NATURE. Plain and simple.

Julia 11-27-2003 04:10 AM

Bottom line: a queen of a third world country, no matter how wealthy she and her family might be, should not spend a fortune on clothes and jewellry. Why? Because it is a slap in the face to her people.

As Sean and other posters have pointed out, Queen Noor has two or three fine tiaras (her tiaras might be saved for the CP's wife??) and Princess Haya has her mother's 2 million dollar tiara which Queen Rania might indeed be able to borrow.

The designer clothes...we've all seen Princess Caroline (yes, she isn't close to Queen Rania's equal in terms of rank but she's bloody wealthy) wear a favorite Chanel gown more than once and she recycles her jewelry constantly. So, why couldn't Queen Rania? One is quite capable of looking spectacular without having the constant need for new clothes and jewels. Queen Rania is not lacking in looks by any means and wearing the same gown or outfit more than once is not going to change many people's minds about her looks.

I admire Queen Rania for her intelligence and she is a seemingly good natured woman. I am sure that the allure of fine jewels and beautiful couture clothing is very powerful and that it is probably hard for her to resist but because of her intelligence, etc... Perhaps she believes she is dressing for her country (putting a good face on, so to speak) but, still, I am disappointed that she might not think of being a little more modest with her spending considering the poverty that her subjects live in.

Humera 11-27-2003 04:14 AM

Quote:

I've never said her spending was the cause of the regions problems. It can, however, exacerbate things.
there is no proof of the assertion you've just made. Rania's wardrobe may be expensive but dont tell me its going to make Jordan's problems worse.
A lot of these accusations stem from people who have personal vendettas against Rania...and thats very much a part of royal court life. It seems to me that these people only make things worse by fueling rumours agaisnt her...i've heard many jordanians mention that before.

Quote:

Maher Arar was tortured in Jordan as well.* <snort>* This really goes to show &#39;informed&#39; you are, and thus I shall henceforth take everything you post with a huge grain of salt.* He has just launched a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Jordanian government for the torture he suffered there:
First of all, I couldnt care less about what you think of my post but you could&#39;ve expressed yourself with more civility and class.
And most importantly, did you even read my previous post? If you&#39;re going to criticize my argument, atleast do me the courtesy of reading what i&#39;ve posted. Atleast then you&#39;d know that I&#39;ve already mentioned the fact that i KNOW about Arar&#39;s decision to sue both Jordan and Syria and i support this decision.
Also, Jordan is being sued because thats where Arar was held illegaly and some minor assualt occured there. BUT the actually physical assault and beatings took place in Syria. This story has been in the Canadian media for more than a year and Syria has always been mentioned as the place where Arar was held for months and brutally beaten. Jordan was merely a stop. When Arar described his ordeal in a press conference recently, he described the torture he faced in SYRIA.

Furthermore, you dont have to give me a list of human rights violations that occur in Jordan and the Middle East. Several Canadians have had first hand experience of these atrocities in Syria, Saudi Arabia etc.

Quote:

It&#39;s all good and well to talk about honour killings etc. in the homes of others, but it is quite another to acknowledge the violations that the regime engages in.
I dont think that Rania simply "talks" about things like honour killings, she actually takes proactive steps towards alleviating the problem...talking to religious leaders about denouncing the practice for example. Just because we dont see every single aspect of her work, doesnt mean she&#39;s just putting on a show. I wouldn&#39;t expect any regime with such serious problems to change overnight.

Again, I will mention that just because i dont agree with your view of middle eastern politics and the significance of Rania&#39;s spending habits in relation to this problem doesnt mean im wrong.
To me, the two things couldn&#39;t be farther apart.
It all goes back to Rania being used as a scapegoat. Jordan&#39;s problems, however serious they may be, have existed for years and wont be resolved until serious political reforms take place. Rania&#39;s extravagance has no place in this picture.
Unfortunately, women like her have been blamed throughout history for their countries&#39; social, political, and economic problems. There&#39;s definately a psychological undertone to such accusations. When you cant fix something, you go out looking for a tangible and weak target. That always seems to make people feel better.

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 05:26 AM

deleted.

beebee 11-27-2003 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Julia@Nov 27th, 2003 - 3:10 am
Bottom line: a queen of a third world country, no matter how wealthy she and her family might be, should not spend a fortune on clothes and jewellry.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because it is a slap in the face to her people.&nbsp;

As Sean and other posters have pointed out, Queen Noor has two or three fine tiaras (her tiaras might be saved for the CP&#39;s wife??) and Princess Haya has her mother&#39;s 2 million dollar tiara which Queen Rania might indeed be able to borrow.

The designer clothes...we&#39;ve all seen Princess Caroline (yes, she isn&#39;t close to Queen Rania&#39;s equal in terms of rank but she&#39;s bloody wealthy) wear a favorite Chanel gown more than once and she recycles her jewelry constantly.&nbsp; So, why couldn&#39;t Queen Rania?&nbsp; One is quite capable of looking spectacular without having the constant need for new clothes and jewels.&nbsp; Queen Rania is not lacking in looks by any means and wearing the same gown or outfit more than once is not going to change many people&#39;s minds about her looks.&nbsp;

I admire Queen Rania for her intelligence and she is a seemingly good natured woman.&nbsp; I am sure that the allure of fine jewels and beautiful couture clothing is very powerful and that it is probably hard for her to resist but because of her intelligence, etc... Perhaps she believes she is dressing for her country (putting a good face on, so to speak) but, still, I am disappointed that she might not think of being a little more modest with her spending considering the poverty that her subjects live in.

I sincerely hope the article about the gold shoes is complete fabrication, because if it is true, my opinion of Rania would plummet considerably. 22 karat gold shoes encrusted with diamonds is sheer extravagance. I would even go so far as to say that anyone who orders and wears such shoes is not quite right in the head.

Still, I think we should give Rania the benefit of the doubt and assume this article is make-believe. As a public figure -- and one who&#39;s talked about not buying tiaras because of the cost, at that -- you&#39;d think she&#39;d know how bad it would look for her to wear something like gold shoes. I don&#39;t think she&#39;d be so unwise as to try to add them to her already expansive wardrobe.

I totally agree with your opinion, Josephine. I do think Rania is a probably wonderful queen and person and mother, but she is still a bit too lavish when it comes to her clothes and jewels. I&#39;m not saying she should go around in a potato sack, but I think she has developed an image as being more of a clotheshorse than any European royal, and that&#39;s not good.

Humera 11-27-2003 10:51 AM

Quote:

There is no point in aruging about this back and forth. I&#39;ve made my points clearly and succinctly. As have you and the others. I will request that this thread be locked before the personal attacks start. We&#39;ve gotten way off the original topic.
That we have.
But dont expect the personal attacks to start from my side...thats not my style.
I dont show contempt for other peoples&#39; opinions simply because they disagree with me.
Oh and by the way, you didnt start this thread so dont expect that it&#39;ll be locked at your request.

Im still hoping someone can discredit/corroborate the article i&#39;ve posted...someone who actually lives in Jordan maybe

shannen26 11-27-2003 12:22 PM

QR has a new emerald tiara, Hayah&#39;s tiara was inherited by her mother, Q Alia. Rania is called - The Bags Queen- in Jordan, guess why ? She&#39;s a shopaholic.

Jann 11-27-2003 01:30 PM

Fascinating reading, in fact the reason I have finally registered instead of ghosting.


Back to the point of the gold shoes - I think this is a fabrication. I think that Queen Rania tends to wear high heels and 22k gold is too soft and flexible for a shoe - quite simply the heel would break. :P

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ~*~Humera~*~@Nov 27th, 2003 - 9:51 am
Quote:

There is no point in aruging about this back and forth. I&#39;ve made my points clearly and succinctly. As have you and the others. I will request that this thread be locked before the personal attacks start. We&#39;ve gotten way off the original topic.
That we have.
But dont expect the personal attacks to start from my side...thats not my style.
I dont show contempt for other peoples&#39; opinions simply because they disagree with me.
Oh and by the way, you didnt start this thread so dont expect that it&#39;ll be locked at your request.

Im still hoping someone can discredit/corroborate the article i&#39;ve posted...someone who actually lives in Jordan maybe

It is one thing to have an opinion, but quite another to have an informed, objective one.

With respect to the article, it has been discussed on other forums as well. Why would a shoemaker from the subcontinent tell such an elaborate lie specifically naming the Queen of Jordan? Many people have a penchant for expensive shoes. Rania has extravigent tastes, so I hardly think it is so far fetched that she would have a pair really decadent shoes made for herself. And I wouln&#39;t expect it to be corroborated by the average Jordanian. Not only do I highly doubt she walks around in these shoes on the streets of Amman. Besides, open criticism of the Hashemites isn&#39;t acceptable there.

S

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 02:16 PM

deleted.

Orianna 11-27-2003 02:35 PM

of course Queen Rania wears Tiaras , she is not going to say that in her resume , come on?&#33; use common sense...

she has a spending problem too , i believe the story of her golden shoes , i lived in the middle east and i can tell you who people from that region love GOLD , they even make clothes with gold.

and she used a new tiara ,an emeral one (very high quality and exquisite) , in the swedish official state visit.

Jann 11-27-2003 02:36 PM

Hi Sean,

I just put that in for a laugh and didn&#39;t intent for it to be taken too seriously.

As for too tacky, well, I have seen a gold bodice/corset made for the wedding day of a very wealthy woman in the Gulf. Now that is tacky&#33; It even had a key to be given as a wedding present to her husband. Surprisingly it was actually made from gold strips and chains, not cloth, and so when finished looked sorta like a cage. It was to be worn under the wedding outfit and to be for husband&#39;s eyes only.

Some people just have more money than sense&#33;

Julia 11-27-2003 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beebee+Nov 27th, 2003 - 8:26 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (beebee @ Nov 27th, 2003 - 8:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Julia@Nov 27th, 2003 - 3:10 am
Bottom line: a queen of a third world country, no matter how wealthy she and her family might be, should not spend a fortune on clothes and jewellry.* Why?* Because it is a slap in the face to her people.*

As Sean and other posters have pointed out, Queen Noor has two or three fine tiaras (her tiaras might be saved for the CP&#39;s wife??) and Princess Haya has her mother&#39;s 2 million dollar tiara which Queen Rania might indeed be able to borrow.

The designer clothes...we&#39;ve all seen Princess Caroline (yes, she isn&#39;t close to Queen Rania&#39;s equal in terms of rank but she&#39;s bloody wealthy) wear a favorite Chanel gown more than once and she recycles her jewelry constantly.* So, why couldn&#39;t Queen Rania?* One is quite capable of looking spectacular without having the constant need for new clothes and jewels.* Queen Rania is not lacking in looks by any means and wearing the same gown or outfit more than once is not going to change many people&#39;s minds about her looks.*

I admire Queen Rania for her intelligence and she is a seemingly good natured woman.* I am sure that the allure of fine jewels and beautiful couture clothing is very powerful and that it is probably hard for her to resist but because of her intelligence, etc... Perhaps she believes she is dressing for her country (putting a good face on, so to speak) but, still, I am disappointed that she might not think of being a little more modest with her spending considering the poverty that her subjects live in.

I sincerely hope the article about the gold shoes is complete fabrication, because if it is true, my opinion of Rania would plummet considerably. 22 karat gold shoes encrusted with diamonds is sheer extravagance. I would even go so far as to say that anyone who orders and wears such shoes is not quite right in the head.

Still, I think we should give Rania the benefit of the doubt and assume this article is make-believe. As a public figure -- and one who&#39;s talked about not buying tiaras because of the cost, at that -- you&#39;d think she&#39;d know how bad it would look for her to wear something like gold shoes. I don&#39;t think she&#39;d be so unwise as to try to add them to her already expansive wardrobe.

I totally agree with your opinion, Josephine. I do think Rania is a probably wonderful queen and person and mother, but she is still a bit too lavish when it comes to her clothes and jewels. I&#39;m not saying she should go around in a potato sack, but I think she has developed an image as being more of a clotheshorse than any European royal, and that&#39;s not good. [/b][/quote]
Hi beebee,

I agree that Rania is probably a wonderful woman, mother, queen and wife. Let&#39;s just hope that the temptation of couture and jewels gradually subside.

Does anyone have an idea of what her yearly budget is on clothes and jewelry?

zhontella 11-27-2003 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 27th, 2003 - 1:26 am
I will request that this thread be locked before the personal attacks start. We&#39;ve gotten way off the original topic.
Hey no, don&#39;t close this thread -- I&#39;ve enjoyed this intelligent discussion with good arguments on both sides. And Sean~, you are delightfully ~snippy&#33;~ but we luvs you anyway. B)

beebee 11-27-2003 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Julia+Nov 27th, 2003 - 2:05 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Julia @ Nov 27th, 2003 - 2:05 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:

Originally posted by beebee@Nov 27th, 2003 - 8:26 am
<!--QuoteBegin-Julia
Quote:

@Nov 27th, 2003 - 3:10 am
Bottom line: a queen of a third world country, no matter how wealthy she and her family might be, should not spend a fortune on clothes and jewellry.* Why?* Because it is a slap in the face to her people.*

As Sean and other posters have pointed out, Queen Noor has two or three fine tiaras (her tiaras might be saved for the CP&#39;s wife??) and Princess Haya has her mother&#39;s 2 million dollar tiara which Queen Rania might indeed be able to borrow.

The designer clothes...we&#39;ve all seen Princess Caroline (yes, she isn&#39;t close to Queen Rania&#39;s equal in terms of rank but she&#39;s bloody wealthy) wear a favorite Chanel gown more than once and she recycles her jewelry constantly.* So, why couldn&#39;t Queen Rania?* One is quite capable of looking spectacular without having the constant need for new clothes and jewels.* Queen Rania is not lacking in looks by any means and wearing the same gown or outfit more than once is not going to change many people&#39;s minds about her looks.*

I admire Queen Rania for her intelligence and she is a seemingly good natured woman.* I am sure that the allure of fine jewels and beautiful couture clothing is very powerful and that it is probably hard for her to resist but because of her intelligence, etc... Perhaps she believes she is dressing for her country (putting a good face on, so to speak) but, still, I am disappointed that she might not think of being a little more modest with her spending considering the poverty that her subjects live in.


I sincerely hope the article about the gold shoes is complete fabrication, because if it is true, my opinion of Rania would plummet considerably. 22 karat gold shoes encrusted with diamonds is sheer extravagance. I would even go so far as to say that anyone who orders and wears such shoes is not quite right in the head.

Still, I think we should give Rania the benefit of the doubt and assume this article is make-believe. As a public figure -- and one who&#39;s talked about not buying tiaras because of the cost, at that -- you&#39;d think she&#39;d know how bad it would look for her to wear something like gold shoes. I don&#39;t think she&#39;d be so unwise as to try to add them to her already expansive wardrobe.

I totally agree with your opinion, Josephine. I do think Rania is a probably wonderful queen and person and mother, but she is still a bit too lavish when it comes to her clothes and jewels. I&#39;m not saying she should go around in a potato sack, but I think she has developed an image as being more of a clotheshorse than any European royal, and that&#39;s not good.

Hi beebee,

I agree that Rania is probably a wonderful woman, mother, queen and wife. Let&#39;s just hope that the temptation of couture and jewels gradually subside.

Does anyone have an idea of what her yearly budget is on clothes and jewelry? [/b][/quote]
Oh, I can&#39;t believe I wrote "Josephine&#33;" I knew I was responding to Julia, but somehow my fingers didn&#39;t. Sorry&#33;

Julia 11-27-2003 04:32 PM

[quote]Originally posted by beebee@Nov 27th, 2003 - 1:39 pm
Quote:

Oh, I can&#39;t believe I wrote "Josephine&#33;" I knew I was responding to Julia, but somehow my fingers didn&#39;t. Sorry&#33;
Not a problem&#33; To be called "Josefine" is a compliment here&#33; :)

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 06:47 PM

deleted.

Sean.~ 11-27-2003 06:49 PM

deleted.

Humera 11-29-2003 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shannen26@Nov 27th, 2003 - 11:22 am
Rania is called - The Bags Queen- in Jordan, guess why ? She&#39;s a shopaholic.
Yeah i&#39;ve heard that one before too.
Rania responded to the criticism in an old Newsweek interview, here&#39;s an excerpt:

"some of the most stinging criticism of Rania comes from Jordan&#39;s chattering classes. The wealthy mostly live in Abdoun, a ritzy enclave in west Amman, and count themselves among the most liberal Jordanians. Yet they&#39;re the first to point out indiscretions, and gossip relentlessly about Rania&#39;s designer outfits and expensive handbags. "She&#39;s the handbag queen," says one. Rania begs to differ. She says she shuns "frilly dresses," opting for simple and modern attire.
During the interview, at first Rania seemed annoyed by the catcalling. "This Abdoun thing," she said, "it&#39;s just jealousy." But then she backed off. "The gossip goes with the turf," she said, adding that she might even learn from the criticism."


Newsweek article

shannen26 12-01-2003 04:39 AM

Pls, all of u, do read - Nine parts of a desire- by G. Brooks. The chapter about Q Noor, it&#39;s called- A Queen- QN was also used as a scapegoat when things in Jordan were bad, now it&#39;s Q Rania&#39;s turn. Btw, P Ali has been very active against Honour Killings the last few years. He&#39;s quite serious about his fight.

yazz 12-01-2003 05:51 AM

in Newsweek article, there are more serious things against KA and QR, being not down-to-earth, that this story of gold shoes :

Other royal actions are more consequential. Both Abdullah and Rania, for instance, have tried to guide debate about Jordan&#39;s troubled economy, and both have taken criticism for it. In a country that has 30 percent unemployment, growing imports and falling exports, some believe the king and queen are out of touch. Many homes in Amman don&#39;t have water, the rural areas suffer grinding poverty and most of the country lacks the necessary infrastructure to attract serious investment, many experts say. Yet the king tours high-tech meccas like Singapore and Silicon Valley, and the queen has been a big proponent of bringing technology to schools. "We need to fix the Old Economy before we get to the New Economy," says political analyst Radwan Abdullah. "The idea of making Jordan a high-tech hub is ridiculous." :wacko:

Sean.~ 12-01-2003 05:53 AM

deleted.

pegassuss2525 12-01-2003 09:38 AM

Honor Killing is part of the culture not of the regime. You can&#39;t truely believe that if the law was passed making honor killings illegal that they would simply go away or even decrease drastically. Until the mind set of the people is changed then honor killings will not be thought of as wrong by the majority. I do not believe that having Ali or any Royal be more critical of Abdullah&#39;s regime will change that. In a perfect world, you may believe that there would be fewer honor killings if there was a free society. Yet Honor Killing is part of the culture. It doesn&#39;t matter if their is a dictator or anarchy or a totally free society, until the mind set is changed then they will continue. I truely believe that Ali and other Royals are attempting do that.

Humera 12-01-2003 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Dec 1st, 2003 - 8:38 am
Honor Killing is part of the culture not of the regime. You can&#39;t truely believe that if the law was passed making honor killings illegal that they would simply go away or even decrease drastically. Until the mind set of the people is changed then honor killings will not be thought of as wrong by the majority.
I totally agree.
Honour killings are a part of many cultures including some parts of Pakistan for example. This horrible practice is a remnant of ancient practices and beliefs.
It is unfortunate that people continue to practice something so terrible and hide behind religion to justify it.
Getting rid of something like honour killings is not just about human rights..you&#39;ve got to change the way people think and convince them that there&#39;s no justification for such a crime. I think Queen Rania&#39;s attempt to get religious leaders to denounce honour killings is quite admirable.
People who commit such crimes should receive the punishment they deserve but most of them just get away with killing their women because society usually approves of such actions.
Its obviously as much a question about ideology as it is about human rights.

Sean.~ 12-01-2003 01:36 PM

deleted.

Jann 12-01-2003 05:11 PM

Sean - could you please clarify what you mean by
Quote:

I am well aware that honour killings are part of the state.
Wouldn&#39;t want to be accused of misinterpreting your words&#33; :innocent:

Sean.~ 12-01-2003 05:29 PM

Deleted.

Jann 12-01-2003 05:50 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, Sean. Until reading that, I had always agreed with your posts which is why I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I was sure you couldn&#39;t really have meant that&#33; A missing word makes all the difference and you are now once again clear, objective and succinct&#33;

With regard to human rights in the Middle East, are you aware of any web based material focusing specifically on the Gulf?

pegassuss2525 12-01-2003 08:20 PM

"Oh, and when are you going to answer the numerous other question&#39;s I&#39;ve posted to you throughout this thread? Indeed, assidiously avoiding answering them does not do anything for your pro-Rania &#39;argument&#39; (and I use the term loosely). "

I am not certain what you mean about other questions directed towards me. I don&#39;t have a Pro Rania stance per se, I just don&#39;t believe that you should condem her if you do not know how much she truely spends.

When you stated that Ali should be more critical toward the regime, I took your words to mean that he should be more critical because Abdullah has not done more to stop the honor killings. You did explain what you meant in you next post. I also know that not all Jordanian families ingage in honor killings but it is a strongly held belief that it is justified. If the mind set of the people doesn&#39;t change to believe that Honor Killings are wrong then the outcry won&#39;t be there against it. That is a proven fact.

As for your issue with my "Cut and Paste" method, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me how to do the Quotes correctly? You posted earlier that you didn&#39;t want personal attacks started but I feel that it has. I was not attempting to twist your words put simply stating my opinion and what I understood you to be saying. I think everyone here has a right to post their opinions. If you feel the need to pick mine apart and attack them, then that is your right. But please do not insult my intelligence or my knowledge on the Middle East.

Sean.~ 12-01-2003 08:39 PM

Deleted.

Sean.~ 12-01-2003 08:44 PM

Deleted.

Jann 12-01-2003 08:51 PM

Many thanks - I am in research mode for my dissertation at the moment and as the saying goes I want to &#39;hit the books before they hit back&#39;&#33;

yazz 12-02-2003 06:01 AM

I agree the jordanian royal family talk a lot about honor killings when they are in foreign countries. But what did they make inside Jordan ? They charged the parliament not passing a law but there were no parliament at all in Jordan during 2 years&#33;&#33; So, during 2 years KA and his government had done whatever they want without any parliamentary poll.
Now there is a parliament, without any islamists thanks to an unrepresentative electoral cutting, with loyal Beduins who are voting whatever the royal family want thanks to corruption. So I hope they will pass a law soon.

Sean.~ 12-02-2003 06:45 AM

Deleted.

Humera 12-02-2003 08:57 AM

If you&#39;ve still got something to say to me Sean, please address it to me directly.
My opinions expressed in other posts weren&#39;t addressed to you.
I&#39;ve got exams coming up and I simply dont have any time to waste on arguments that dont go beyond repetitive rhetoric.

Sean.~ 12-02-2003 09:11 AM

Deleted.

nicole 12-04-2003 03:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I understand that Queen Rania stressed at the begininng of her becoming queen that she didn&#39;t own her own tiara, the she borrowed the one the once belong to Queen Alia from Princess Haya (the daughter of QAlia) during her corronation. But I know when the king and queen visited the UK on an official visit in 2001 (I think) that Rania was wearing a new tiara--there&#39;s a also a portrait of the couple (see attached photo from Magickal Rania yahoo group) where Rania is wearing the new tiara. In anycase--is that tiara on lone or does she really own it?

The reason I ask this is because the queen was very adament at the begining of her reign that she was not spending a lot of money despite being called the, "Hand bag queen" by many of the Jordanian people. So then why would she have bought a new tiara (if in fact it is hers) if she wanted to counteract what her people were accusing her of--spending too much money on clothes and jewels even though Jordan doesn&#39;t have the financial resourses to support her spending.

malena 12-04-2003 05:03 PM

this is from the HARPER&#39;s interview....

From the moment of Rania&#39;s coronation in 1999 - an event for which
she wore a borrowed tiara ("I couldn&#39;t be bothered to go and buy
one," she explains, "because, you know you don&#39;t get to wear them all
that often")

barbara_41172 12-04-2003 08:42 PM

Nicole, a lot of Queens own more than one tiara. Usually they&#39;re passed from one generation to the next. With the Jordan Royal Family it seems this is not the case and Rania didn&#39;t inherit a tiara. In the past she used to borrow one from Princess Haya. In the run-up to the coronation I would say she really didn&#39;t have the time to buy one but in the last 4 years she&#39;s acquired two tiaras, one worn on tne State Visit to the UK and one to Sweden. I don&#39;t see anything wrong with that afterall she is a Queen and needs to represent her country accordingly. What she&#39;s said in the past is in the past, maybe borrowing the tiara from P Haya wasn&#39;t that practical, plus it is Haya&#39;s tiara and very special to her as it used to belong to her late mother Queen Alia.

Furthermore to some of the criticism about Rania&#39;s spending, I would say that there are people who can never be pleased. The average poor Jordanian who it would seem would SO object to the Queen&#39;s spending doesn&#39;t own a TV set or a computer so how could he or she know what the Queen wears. In Jordan on visits to poor areas, the Queen always dresses aappropriately. The people who DO seem to object so vehemently are the richer Jordanians.

TC
Barbara


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