The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   Royal House of Denmark (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/)
-   -   New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: May 2008 (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/new-titles-for-queen-margrethes-descendants-may-2008-a-16845.html)

Empress 04-30-2008 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 760471)

Or it could be a way for Margrethe to begin collecting titles for her descendants; like the ones she didn't take up when she succeeded her father: King/Queen of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke/Duchess of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg :rofl:


Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

morhange 05-01-2008 03:27 AM

The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

Stefan 05-01-2008 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamari (Post 760507)
It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.

That's the way the nobility work's in most countries. Also in Denmark. And Margrethe made no exception for her own descendants. It would be strange if her granddaughter could pass her title to her descendants and the daugters of other danish Counts can not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morhange (Post 760606)
The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

She could probably give her children the surname af Monpezat the same way how Countesses Camilla of Rosenborg children are named af Rosensborg without the title.

norwegianne 05-01-2008 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760546)
So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark. :flowers:

betina 05-01-2008 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760546)
Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states :-) and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

HRH Kerry 05-01-2008 06:24 AM

Interesting. I just thought that she would automatically because she was the monarch.

Jo of Palatine 05-01-2008 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760307)
Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

Stefan 05-01-2008 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 760656)
It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

Jo of Palatine 05-01-2008 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 760646)
Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark. :flowers:

Maybe it's similar to the British queen deciding on Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendants who are not prince/princess. As the Danish Royal family has no family name (see the problem with the Greek exiled Royals who have no family name either, as they were of Danish descent) they now have the "af Monpezat"-title. In fact if Henri de Laborde de Monpezat hadn't married a (then future) queen, his sons would both be Comte de Laborde de Monpezat. So it makes sense to give their father's name to them as an additional Danish title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 760657)
At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

Count Lennart was not a German Count but his title was a creation of the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg. Probably the use of "Komtesse" came from there.

The Wredes used the old system at least till 1918. And I found family trees of the Habsburg where Archduchess Anna Gabriele is written in as born a "Prinzessin von Wrede" - which is the old way it was done in the German monarchies. But of course nowadays the daughters of Barons and Counts take the female form of the family name. While I know quite some princely Houses who insist on the "Prinzessin"-style for the daughters. EG. Sayn, Oettingen, Hohenlohe, Leiningen....

Empress 05-01-2008 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betina (Post 760651)
She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states :-) and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore


Well that's not entirely true as she did become Queen.

betina 05-01-2008 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760664)
Well that's not entirely true as she did become Queen.

I was not talking about the queen of Denmark title but the Ditmarsken, Schleswig-Holstein and so on :flowers:

princess leonor 05-03-2008 08:33 AM

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I didn't know where else to post it: Appretnly the Queen has given both her sons a new title. Both of them get the title Count of Montpezat and their spouses will (naturally) get the titles Countes of Montpezat. It seems a bit strange to me that both princes would get the same title, but maybe that's a common thing in Denmark? Anyway, you can read the article here, it's from Hola:
LOS PRÍNCIPES FEDERICO Y JOAQUÍN DE DINAMARCA ESTRENAN UN NUEVO TÍTULO

Leslie2006 05-12-2008 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760307)
Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd.

Not really. It was that way in Imperial Russia---a married grand duchess had a different title in Russian than an unmarried grand duchess, but the English translation is the same for both: Grand Duchess of Russia.

Madame Royale 05-12-2008 12:57 AM

Quote:

It seems a bit strange to me that both princes would get the same title
There's nothing weird about it as it's a dynastic title, not an indavidual one. Conferred upon the descendants of HRH Prince Henrik, The Prine Cconsort and HM The Queen, respectively.

lyndaW 05-12-2008 01:59 PM

I have read and re-read everyones comments, but forgive me I'm still confused:
How can a "Danish" Queen give out French titles ????
Could Queen Elizabeth give out Greek titles???
both Queen's have husbands from another country that is a republic!I could see Queen Margrethe "creating" new Danish titles.

When Frederik & Mary become King & Queen (I hope its many many years in the future) could Fred give a "Scottish" title to Mary's father??????

Amelia 05-12-2008 02:06 PM

:previous: I'm still a little confused myself but from what I can maked out it is not a French Title, it is a Danish Title using Henrik's French name :confused:

LauraMCS 05-12-2008 04:11 PM

It is not a French title. France never recognized Monpezat as a noble family so Margrethe is not stepping on foreign toes by awarding a foreign title. She is merely incorporating her husband's family name into the family name for the sake of posterity. {To remove off-topic comment} It's not unlike the Dutch who use the German name 'Mr(s). van Amsberg' as part of their official name.

It probably would have been better to make the new moniker: Prince(ss) of Denmark, Mr(s) Monpezat instead of Count(ess).

Kotroman 02-16-2009 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyndaW (Post 764784)
I have read and re-read everyones comments, but forgive me I'm still confused:
How can a "Danish" Queen give out French titles ????
Could Queen Elizabeth give out Greek titles???
both Queen's have husbands from another country that is a republic!I could see Queen Margrethe "creating" new Danish titles.

When Frederik & Mary become King & Queen (I hope its many many years in the future) could Fred give a "Scottish" title to Mary's father??????

The Queen of the United Kingdom can create any title she wants. If she wants, she can give her husband the title of Duke of Washington, but that wouldn't be an American title - it would be a British title (in the Peerage of the United Kingdom). After all, Sue Ryder was given the title of "Baroness Ryder of Warsaw". I believe that The Queen of Denmark has the same prerogative.

I've forgot to ask: how far down the line of descent is the title of Prince(ss) of Denmark passed? Will grandchildren of Prince Joachim be Princes of Denmark?

Stefan 02-17-2009 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kotroman (Post 894765)
I've forgot to ask: how far down the line of descent is the title of Prince(ss) of Denmark passed? Will grandchildren of Prince Joachim be Princes of Denmark?

There is no limit. If the marry with the Consent of the Monarch given in the Council of State thei children of Nicolai and Felix will be Prince/Princess of Denmark with the Style of Highness.

QUEENECE29 02-17-2009 05:30 AM

I could not understand why such a change.
Why Prince / Princess instead Count / Comtesse wondered what was intended ...


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises