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blondie28 04-22-2008 08:08 PM

Prince William Appointed as the 1,000th Knight of the Garter: April 2008
 
Prince William is appointed a garter knight by the Queen | the Daily Mail
Yay William!:clap:

Kezza 04-22-2008 08:15 PM

Interesting news that he is to be appointed one, a nd probably comes at a good time for Prince William as it will take away the spotlight on the RAF incident for a few days.

Royal Fan 04-22-2008 09:19 PM

Im very Happy for him id say Henry will be next after he gets that medal

love_cc 04-22-2008 11:18 PM

Good for him and I am looking forward to see him attend this year's ceremony. I googled the information and I think Prince William is to be appointed this year because Sir Edmund Hilary died few months ago.

So many surprises to see the name list of Knights and Ladies for the Order of Garter!

ghost_night554 04-22-2008 11:22 PM

Good for William on getting the knighthood.

Mermaid1962 04-23-2008 01:05 AM

William's going to be outstanding in his Garter robes!

Jo of Palatine 04-23-2008 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love_cc (Post 757452)
Good for him and I am looking forward to see him attend this year's ceremony. I googled the information and I think Prince William is to be appointed this year because Sir Edmund Hilary died few months ago.

So many surprises to see the name list of Knights and Ladies for the Order of Garter!

I think William falls into a different category than Sir Edmund - so even after William is appointed there will be one more opening for a new knight.

Madame Royale 04-23-2008 04:11 AM

It was just today, ysbel and I slightly touched on the issue of who next would be made a Knight of the Order of the Garter. There was some talk of the former Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, being created a Knight. but whether or not that is still possible I'm not sure.

Personally I don't find the former PM worthy of it so here's hoping someone within the UK is appointed.

Roslyn 04-23-2008 05:57 AM

Five personal jaunts?!? :shock:

:ermm: I wonder if The Queen really believes this is a good time to be giving William the Order of the Garter?

Roslyn 04-23-2008 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale (Post 757487)
Personally I don't find the former PM worthy of it so here's hoping someone within the UK is appointed.

I think he's more worthy of it than William.

ETA I might add that I also think Hugh Grant's more worthy of it than William.

Jo of Palatine 04-23-2008 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn (Post 757510)
Five personal jaunts?!? :shock:

:ermm: I wonder if The Queen really believes this is a good time to be giving William the Order of the Garter?

I think they followed a schedule -a slow kind of paving the way for William into the job of a fully working Senior Royal. And it was just an unfortunate coincidence that these stories hit the media just now. I guess it was planned that he would received his wings in all honour - thus showing he has earned something on his own account and as a next step he would get the garter as the heir of the heir. Who could have foreseen that this RAF-stint would end on such an embarrassing note?

They really should have sent William as an intern into a PR company instead of sending to learn how to fly with the RAF - he obviously has no idea of how to life as an honorable officer and gentleman. So maybe he could have learned how to omit PR faux passes instead?:biggrin:

Madame Royale 04-23-2008 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn (Post 757512)
I think he's more worthy of it than William.

ETA I might add that I also think Hugh Grant's more worthy of it than William.

More worthy of it than the Queen's own grandson and second in line to inherit? That's an interesting view but each to their own. Sooner or later he would have been created a Knight, so now is as good a time as any.

karla64 04-23-2008 10:03 AM

Yeah I can't wait to see him to wear the robe.. I hope he will look good..

PrinceOfCanada 04-23-2008 10:16 AM

Quote:

I googled the information and I think Prince William is to be appointed this year because Sir Edmund Hilary died few months ago.
No, members of the Royal Family are generally 'supernumary' members of the Order. That is to say, their numbers don't officially count.

Quote:

Yeah I can't wait to see him to wear the robe.. I hope he will look good..
I think we can all agree that he would look good in a burlap sack.

PrincessofEurope 04-23-2008 10:55 AM

at what age was charles appointed

wbenson 04-23-2008 11:34 AM

He was technically appointed at age 9, as the Prince of Wales is automatically a member, and he was created PoW in July 1958.

msleiman 04-23-2008 12:38 PM

I am happy for William!

BeatrixFan 04-23-2008 12:50 PM

Inevitable but I really don't think this looks good at all at the moment. A reward for embarrassing the family? There were more deserving candidates in the RF to give this honour to.

Amelia 04-23-2008 12:57 PM

Congratulations to William, I guess. Unfortunate timing however!

Al_bina 04-23-2008 01:27 PM

Nothing surprising here. Both Prince William and Prince Harry will become a Knights of the Garter sooner or later... I agree with BeatrixFan and Amelia...The recent deeds of Prince William may cast a little shadow over his appointment.

Royal Fan 04-23-2008 01:34 PM

I Dont think so really So will he do anything today St George Day in reguards to the appointment??

kimebear 04-23-2008 02:37 PM

The timing is unfortunate. I would imagine it has something to do with him being the 1,000th. Its the only reason I could see him being honored so early.

Skydragon 04-23-2008 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Fan (Post 757713)
I Dont think so really So will he do anything today St George Day in reguards to the appointment??

It has undoubtedly cast a shadow over his appointment, IMO and many on the various forums and comments in many of the papers. Very few celebrate St. Georges Day, this is the 1st year the English flag has been hung outside No. 10, so hopefully this might change, but Wm has performed no public honouring of St George.

I celebrate the flag but not George, as I don't agree with slaying dragons! :lol::whistling:

magnik 04-23-2008 04:25 PM

Media Centre > Buckingham Palace press releases > Appointment of a new Garter Knight



List of Knights and Ladies of the Garter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rebafan81 04-23-2008 04:31 PM

I am happy for William but personally I think Harry deserves it more.

politikgirl 04-23-2008 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 757709)
Nothing surprising here. Both Prince William and Prince Harry will become a Knights of the Garter sooner or later... I agree with BeatrixFan and Amelia...The recent deeds of Prince William may cast a little shadow over his appointment.

Well said, and I agree. I don't think anyone's surprised by this appointment, and obviously it had to happen, since William is the Queen's grandson and the future King after his father, but I don't think he's done anything particularly worthwhile to deserve this honour, especially lately.

magnik 04-23-2008 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by politikgirl (Post 757796)
Well said, and I agree. I don't think anyone's surprised by this appointment, and obviously it had to happen, since William is the Queen's grandson and the future King after his father, but I don't think he's done anything particularly worthwhile to deserve this honour, especially lately.

Agree. Become a KG only becouse is a future King and grandson of the present Queen... Btw comparing why not Harry he was in Iraq and fight... Will was only in UK.

andrew 04-23-2008 04:48 PM

.
 
The monarchy is not an institution based on election, so it is obvious that there are a LOT of people who deserve the Garter better than Prince William, but they were not fortunate enough to be the first-born of the Prince of Wales. He is 25 now, so I guess that it was high time he got it. Royals are "extra" knights thus not in the same category as the other 26 knights. I'm sure that he will try his best to serve his country and monarch and one day will become himself a responsable monarch.

BeatrixFan 04-23-2008 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew (Post 757802)
The monarchy is not an institution based on election, so it is obvious that there are a LOT of people who deserve the Garter better than Prince William, but they were not fortunate enough to be the first-born of the Prince of Wales. He is 25 now, so I guess that it was high time he got it. Royals are "extra" knights thus not in the same category as the other 26 knights. I'm sure that he will try his best to serve his country and monarch and one day will become himself a responsable monarch.

What about Camilla? What about Birgitte? What about Katherine? All far more deserving as active full-time Royals (or have been in Katherine's case) than William.

HRH Kerry 04-23-2008 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnik (Post 757798)
Agree. Become a KG only becouse is a future King and grandson of the present Queen... Btw comparing why not Harry he was in Iraq and fight... Will was only in UK.


Ouch.;) A little less deserving then?

magnik 04-23-2008 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRH Kerry (Post 757812)
Ouch.;) A little less deserving then?

Ohhh yes, I forgot about these few clubs, parties, choppers etc.;) :biggrin:


Btw I hope (why not) that WoW KG will be much more sense (and sesibility) than WoW.

wbenson 04-23-2008 05:41 PM

For William, it's never been a question of if he will be a Knight of the Garter. Assuming all goes normally and he is created Prince of Wales, he would automatically become a Knight of the Garter on his creation anyways.

And I agree that there are other deserving royals, but William's case is different because his future role is so much different.

Roslyn 04-23-2008 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale (Post 757539)
More worthy of it than the Queen's own grandson and second in line to inherit? That's an interesting view but each to their own. Sooner or later he would have been created a Knight, so now is as good a time as any.

IMO the fact William is the Queen's grandson and second in line to the throne does not make him "worthy" of anything. I don't value people based on accident of birth alone, and it seems to me that that's the sole reason William has been given the Garter.

He will naturally progress through the various steps that first born sons of the Prince of Wales undergo, including getting this new feathery, velvety outfit, but IMO it's not a big deal, because it was inevitable and he didn't have to actually do anything to get it.

Skydragon 04-24-2008 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 757811)
What about Camilla? What about Birgitte? What about Katherine? All far more deserving as active full-time Royals (or have been in Katherine's case) than William.

Katherine would not want it, IMO. I know Harry has got his campaign medal (for the couple of weeks he did), but even he is more deserving than William.

Josefine 04-24-2008 09:56 AM

will there be a cermony?

Madame Royale 04-24-2008 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn (Post 757835)
IMO the fact William is the Queen's grandson and second in line to the throne does not make him "worthy" of anything. I don't value people based on accident of birth alone, and it seems to me that that's the sole reason William has been given the Garter.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe he has been bestowed this honour for no other reason than being second in line, but what would you then say about his father, who as a 10 year old boy, was created a Knight Companion of the Order of the Garter? Or even his grandfather who was created a Knight Companion for no other reason than marrying the then King's daughter.

In 1946 the power to name members was returned to the sovereign without government interference, which means the membership in the Order today thus fills it's original role as a mark of royal favour.

To be honest though, I'd much rather have read that Camilla was being created a Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.

Madame Royale 04-24-2008 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josefine (Post 758079)
will there be a cermony?

I believe it's going to be a private ceremony at Windsor Castle.

PrincessofEurope 04-24-2008 03:49 PM

yes the Duchess of Glouchester is a royal who is most deserving of becoming a Lady of the Garter

I always thought that William wouldnt get the Garter until he married i mean Andrew and Edward only got it in 2006 so maybe its a abit premature

So what year can we predict when Harry will be installed - at the same age so maybe 2010???

Also to note Princess Margaret was never installed into the Order of the Garter which seems strange since she was a the daughter and then sister of a Monarch

magnik 04-24-2008 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale (Post 758094)
I believe it's going to be a private ceremony at Windsor Castle.

The number of knights is limited to 24, plus Royal knights. For much of its history, the Garter was limited to the aristocracy, but today the knights are from varied backgrounds. If there are vacancies in the Order, appointments are announced on St George's Day (23 April).
Every June, the Knights of the Garter gather at Windsor Castle, where new knights take the oath and are invested with the insignia. A lunch is given in the Waterloo Chamber, after which the knights process to a service in St George's Chapel, wearing their blue velvet robes (with the badge of the Order - St George's Cross within the Garter surrounded by radiating silver beams - on the left shoulder) and black velvet hats with white plumes.


The Queen (whose father George VI appointed her and her husband to the Order in 1947) attends the service as Sovereign of the Order. Other members of the Royal Family in the Order also attend, including The Duke of Edinburgh, The Prince of Wales and The Princess Royal.
The Monarchy Today > Queen and public > Honours > Order of the Garter

The Monarchy Today > Ceremony and symbol > Ceremonies > Garter Day

Btw. Does Wills coat of arms will change too?

CasiraghiTrio 04-24-2008 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale (Post 757487)
It was just today, ysbel and I slightly touched on the issue of who next would be made a Knight of the Order of the Garter. There was some talk of the former Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, being created a Knight. but whether or not that is still possible I'm not sure.

Personally I don't find the former PM worthy of it so here's hoping someone within the UK is appointed.

But ....... er, pardon if I'm mistaken. From my understanding of the royal website's release, there was a footnote to the announcement explaining that the royal knights are "additional" to the regular appointees. So William's being knighted does not effect other appointments, I think. :ermm:

Roslyn 04-24-2008 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale (Post 758090)
Perhaps you're right. Maybe he has been bestowed this honour for no other reason than being second in line, but what would you then say about his father, who as a 10 year old boy, was created a Knight Companion of the Order of the Garter? Or even his grandfather who was created a Knight Companion for no other reason than marrying the then King's daughter.

In 1946 the power to name members was returned to the sovereign without government interference, which means the membership in the Order today thus fills it's original role as a mark of royal favour.

I was 4 when Charles was created a Garter Knight and have never thought about it, but there's no difference. It is, as you say, a mark of royal favour, and not based on merit. I accept that these things happen, but I don't see any reason to be pleased about it or to congratulate the recipient. It even has me thinking disturbingly charitable thoughts about the Eureka flag. :ohmy:

Quote:

To be honest though, I'd much rather have read that Camilla was being created a Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.
Now that would be a story! :flowers:

Elspeth 04-24-2008 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 758321)
But ....... er, pardon if I'm mistaken. From my understanding of the royal website's release, there was a footnote to the announcement explaining that the royal knights are "additional" to the regular appointees. So William's being knighted does not effect other appointments, I think. :ermm:

I think this was a discussion about a replacement for Edmund Hillary, who died earlier this year and created a vacancy. As you said, the royal knights are additional to the regular appointees.

Madame Royale 04-24-2008 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 758321)
But ....... er, pardon if I'm mistaken. From my understanding of the royal website's release, there was a footnote to the announcement explaining that the royal knights are "additional" to the regular appointees. So William's being knighted does not effect other appointments, I think. :ermm:

Yes, I since worked that out. Thank you.

CasiraghiTrio 04-24-2008 11:43 PM

^No problem, I think I replied to your post on page 1 prematurely. Anyway, I agree it would be nice for the Duchess of Gloucester to have the Garter. Camilla, yes, but maybe later. Camilla is fairly new to the game, comparatively speaking that is. Give her more time, I guess I mean to say.
I think if I was Birgitte I would kinda pissed if Camilla got it before her, haha.

NGalitzine 04-25-2008 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn (Post 758326)
I was 4 when Charles was created a Garter Knight and have never thought about it, but there's no difference. It is, as you say, a mark of royal favour, and not based on merit. I accept that these things happen, but I don't see any reason to be pleased about it or to congratulate the recipient. It even has me thinking disturbingly charitable thoughts about the Eureka flag. :ohmy:



Now that would be a story! :flowers:

Charles became a KG at such a young age because that is how old he was when the Queen created him Prince of Wales. The PoW is automatically KG.

Russophile 04-25-2008 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn (Post 757512)
I think he's more worthy of it than William.

ETA I might add that I also think Hugh Grant's more worthy of it than William.

Somebody tell me why Hugh Grant should get it other than his movies and his stint with a prostitute?? :eek:

PrinceOfCanada 04-25-2008 07:47 PM

Quote:

Btw. Does Wills coat of arms will change too?
He doesn't have to, exactly, but he would be entitled to add the insignia to his arms. HM would have to issue a Letter Patent, I believe, amending his arms.

Quote:

Somebody tell me why Hugh Grant should get it other than his movies and his stint with a prostitute??
I think that was what is commonly known as a 'joke'.

Charlotte1 04-27-2008 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 757811)
What about Camilla? What about Birgitte? What about Katherine? All far more deserving as active full-time Royals (or have been in Katherine's case) than William.

Based on historical precedence Camilla will receive the Garter when Charles becomes king. Alexandra was The Princess of Wales for 40 years and did not receive the Garter until her husband became King Edward VII and she received it from him . Mary received the Garter once her husband was king and Elizabeth ( QM) received the Garter from her husband King George VI.

Katharine and Brigitte will never receive the Garter, only the women who marry the consort and eventually become queen receive the Garter, just marrying a royal doesn't get you one. Marina ( Duchess of Kent) and Alice ( Duchess of Gloucester) never received the Garter.

There are 3 categories of Garter recipients, British royals who are Royal Companion Knights, the 24 Garter Knights, 2 died in the past year, Sir Edmund Hillary and Edward Heath so there were 2 vacanies the 2 new Knights are Lord Luce and Sir Thomas Dunne. And then foreign royals who are Stranger Knights also receive the Garter when they make a State visit, all foreign royals have the Garter except for Belgian's King Albert and Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg as neither has made a State Visit to the UK in their reign. ( Albert of Monaco too, although I don't think he makes State Visits)

PrincessofEurope 04-28-2008 02:31 PM

i suppose we should all be grateful that our wonderful former Prime Minister Tony Blair wasnt on the list


although by precedent he will eventually receive the honour - unfortunately:lol: :lol:

magnik 04-28-2008 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessofEurope (Post 759537)
i suppose we should all be grateful that our wonderful former Prime Minister Tony Blair wasnt on the list although by precedent he will eventually receive the honour - unfortunately:lol: :lol:

He was a PM only 10 years, 1997-2007 .
Will is a Queen'a grandson almost 26 years.
So who knows the Queen longer? :biggrin:

Russophile 04-28-2008 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada (Post 758658)



I think that was what is commonly known as a 'joke'.

Oh, that's right. That DRY British humor I keep hearing about. :biggrin:

PrincessKLS2007 05-02-2008 12:35 PM

That's good news :) After the whole plane crash debacle that's good to hear. Hope it makes international/CNN news. BTW: I found the plane crash story funny.

LOSSEAN 05-06-2008 09:38 PM

Congratulations Prince William. HM the Queen has deemed it fitting to appoint her grandson the 1000th knight of this distinguished order.
Best Wishes Prince William for a good royal future.

Daniel d'Evreux 05-07-2008 10:36 PM

Court Circular - Buckingham Palace - 5th May, 2008 reported:
"The Queen this afternoon conferred upon Prince William of Wales the honour of Knighthood and invested His Royal Highness with the Insignia of a Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter."

My Question: I understand that HRH Prince William of Wales was announced recently in late April to have been given the Order of the Garter. I assumed that his investiture would've occured on "Garter Day" in early June.
Why did Her Majesty, the Queen formally knight and invest Prince William on what seems a much earlier date? I gather that this was a privately held palace investiture? Does anyone know any details?

It seems to me this is a significant occasion that wasn't covered either in the UK press, (or I've missed seeing it), nor cited by my fellow colleagues here in this Forum. Also, isn't this the first occasion in which Buckingham Palace has made formal use of Prince William's "HRH" title in print? My assumption is that the Queen's action signals that HRH Prince William is now publically functioning as one of the senior members of the British Royal Family.

This is my first post, so I hope I'm following Forum protocols correctly.

Next Star 05-07-2008 11:21 PM

Congrats to Prince William of Wales on being appointed the 1000th Knight of the Garter.

wbenson 05-07-2008 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel d'Evreux (Post 763195)
My Question: I understand that HRH Prince William of Wales was announced recently in late April to have been given the Order of the Garter. I assumed that his investiture would've occured on "Garter Day" in early June.
Why did Her Majesty, the Queen formally knight and invest Prince William on what seems a much earlier date? I gather that this was a privately held palace investiture? Does anyone know any details?

From what I can tell, the investiture is different from the ceremonies on Garter Day. I know John Major had a private investiture, as it was shown on one of the recent programs (I can't remember which). On Garter Day, there will be a more formal installation ceremony where the Queen would place his robes on him, etc.

Royal Fan 05-08-2008 02:03 PM

So has his Coat of Arms been installed in the Chapel yet?

Duke 05-11-2008 10:37 AM

Congrats to Prince William

Claire 05-11-2008 10:48 AM

Personally if you read Nostradamus you would have wanted this appointment. The 1000 knight is the last and won't live to see his 30th Birthday.

rmay286 05-11-2008 11:01 AM

I never thought the Queen was the type to be reading Nostradamus, and this seems to confirm it!

HRHEarlofGwynedd 05-11-2008 01:13 PM

THe Queen usually appoints new Garter Knights on St George's Day (April 23)

ysbel 05-17-2008 10:15 AM

I don't think the Royal appointments for Garter were ever meant to show how worthy a royal was of the honor. In the beginning, it was a military secret society of top soliders and the only royal members were the King and the Prince of Wales and then maybe the PoW heir. Since the King (and the Prince of Wales) were expected to lead England's military efforts whether they were capable or not (and hopefully have enough sense to appoint a deserving general if they were not), their inclusion in the Order was very necessary.

Nowadays, the order is simply to award any deserving Britons which has diluted its original intent somewhat. But if William is going to one day be the head of this organization, I think the thinking is that he has to get in it as soon as possible to know how it works. This way when his time comes to appoint the deserving and hand out the awards he knows what to do.

It does seem that Edward VII started the further dilution of the Garter by appointing his wife, Queen Alexandra, to the Garter. Now, if the royal members were only the Queen, Charles, and William, it would have been perfectly clear that the Royal Appointment was a training assignment for the top spot.

Actually, given William's recent lack of direction, I think its good he's getting these Royal assignments. Hopefully the company of men and women who have achieved much in their lives will act as an example to William and he will hopefully take his position and his life more seriously. At least one may hope.

princeandrew 05-20-2008 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 764462)
Personally if you read Nostradamus you would have wanted this appointment. The 1000 knight is the last and won't live to see his 30th Birthday.


Claire,
don't worry, just to avoid Nostradamus predictions....the Queen appointed also The Lord Luce and Sir Thomas Dunne to be KGs....so Prince William is not the Last at all!!!! Anyhow I hope there is no King Henry IX!!!! And Queen Chelsy!

muriel 05-20-2008 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel (Post 766928)
Actually, given William's recent lack of direction,

Ysbel - Just thought I would ask if you could explain your comment "given William's recent lack of direction." Wondered how he may have displayed a lack of direction in pursuing a military career?

PrincessofEurope 05-21-2008 04:26 PM

would william have kate as his guest for the cermony as Andrew invited fergie in 2006

Al_bina 07-22-2008 05:25 PM

"Prince William has incorporated a touching tribute to his late mother in his newly unveiled crest to mark his inauguration into the world's oldest order of chivalry...
Prince William's tribute to Diana, Princess of Wales - Telegraph

Ella Kay 07-22-2008 06:02 PM

It's such a lovely small gesture on William's part -- I like that he remembers his mother in little ways and continues to incorporate her in his everyday life. It's really touching and a very appropriate way to pay tribute to her.

The scallop also reaffirms one thing -- even if he is identified primarily as a Windsor, he still considers himself a Spencer, too.

Sister Morphine 07-22-2008 07:51 PM

What a beautiful nod to his mother.

Warren 07-23-2008 05:00 AM

It's not a "gesture", it's a central element of Prince William's own Coat of Arms: see here.
The Spencer escallop appears four times: on the lion, the unicorn, across the shield, and on the top-most lion.

Prince Harry's Coat of Arms also incorporates the same Spencer escallop.

kpusa1981 07-23-2008 02:28 PM

How big a deal is to have material symbol included from someone who was not member of the Royal Family except through marriage? On both the Coat of Arms and Garter Badge where are the Spencer escallop. Is it more promanent on the Coat of Arms or the Garter Badge?

wbenson 07-23-2008 02:33 PM

The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.

Ella Kay 07-23-2008 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson (Post 802534)
The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.

Part of it's coming from the sculptor himself, who said this to the Telegraph writer: "It is a really nice gesture that Prince William has acknowledged his late mother in the design. It is also fairly unusual in royal circles." The article does conflate old information about the maternal symbols on his arms with the new information about the Garter crest, but Ian Brennan, the artist, does make it sound as if Prince William was a part of the design of the crest.

I quite like the image of William, all in his Garter robes, hurrying into the artist's studio and halting proceedings, insisting that scallops must! be! present! :lol:

COUNTESS 07-23-2008 05:33 PM

It is simple. He loves his mother. He is acknowledgeing her, in his way.

Skydragon 07-23-2008 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson (Post 802534)
The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.

The Mail follows the same tack, but as the Telegraph article was posted, I didn't bother with it. I thought it 'strange' that they would try to make it sound as if this was a new and exciting design, but it does sell papers! :whistling:

kimebear 07-23-2008 06:46 PM

Well it is true that he broke with tradition and included part of his mothers arms into his own. It was a nice jesture, just not a recent one as they would have you believe. It did say that his arms would change when he became the Prince of Wales. Any idea of what that would entail? I'm assuming there must be some small difference from the previous Princes of Wales, or is that incorrect?

wbenson 07-23-2008 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear (Post 802630)
I'm assuming there must be some small difference from the previous Princes of Wales, or is that incorrect?

I'm pretty sure they will be the same if he is created PoW.

Sister Morphine 07-23-2008 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpusa1981 (Post 802531)
How big a deal is to have material symbol included from someone who was not member of the Royal Family except through marriage? On both the Coat of Arms and Garter Badge where are the Spencer escallop. Is it more promanent on the Coat of Arms or the Garter Badge?


I don't think it's a big deal per se, but according to what that article said, it is not usual for pieces of maternal arms to be incorporated.


Quote:

The decision to recognize his mother is a break with tradition as it is highly unusual for members of the Royal Family to include maternal symbols in their heraldic emblems.

I think maybe that's why. Then again, I could be way off base. It wouldn't be the first time. :lol:

PrinceOfCanada 07-23-2008 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson (Post 802680)
I'm pretty sure they will be the same if he is created PoW.

One could reasonably assume that the arms of Wales would be added to his current arms in an escutcheon. What I wonder is whether his stall carving at Windsor will then be updated? It won't need to be updated when he accedes, of course, as the Sovereign's arms don't change. That being said, it would be a lovely nod to the Welsh people to remove one of the English quarters from the arms, and include the Welsh in its place. Still retaining, of course, the reversed placement of England and Scotland in the arms when in Scotland, and perhaps giving Wales pride of place in Wales, and likewise Northern Ireland.

As for maternal elements in arms.. it's a recent development that it is popular again. Beatrice's difference label includes bees (a reference to her mother's arms, as well as canting on her own name), for example. I suspect the trend will intensify with the next generation of Royals, which isn't a bad thing at all. Of course, once William accedes, the escallop will disappear from his arms. But not from Harry's, of course.

wbenson 07-24-2008 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada (Post 802687)
One could reasonably assume that the arms of Wales would be added to his current arms in an escutcheon.

The eldest son always uses a blank label, though. The coronet on the arms would also change to reflect his new status. And the Welsh badges and Cornish escutcheon would likely be added at the base. There's nothing left to do to make them identical to Charles' current arms at that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada (Post 802687)
That being said, it would be a lovely nod to the Welsh people to remove one of the English quarters from the arms, and include the Welsh in its place.

I agree.

pinkie40 07-26-2008 12:04 AM

I wasn't aware of the Nostradamus prediction but that is certain in line with the prediction by Rasputin! Supposedly, according to that mad monk, after a Mountbatten ascends the throne (Prince Charles), England will have one last King (William). Not so far off the possibilty due to the constant republican rumbling and constant criticisms of the royal family.

The red shell certainly brought a tear to my eye. Prince William(along with his brother) is a very sensitive young man in regards to his mum.

wbenson 07-26-2008 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkie40 (Post 803580)
Not so far off the possibilty due to the constant republican rumbling and constant criticisms of the royal family.

That's been there for centuries. (I think Nostradamus and Rasputin were old quacks though, so that might taint my view.)


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