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Marengo 04-22-2008 04:06 AM

Emperor Friedrich III (1831-1888) and Victoria (Empress Frederick) (1840-1901)
Friedrich III Wilhelm Nikolaus Karl, German Emperor and King of Prussia etc. (Potsdam, 18 October 1831 - Friedrichskron, Potsdam, 15 June 1888); married at St.James's Palace on 25 January 1858 Princess Victoria Adelaide Mary Louisa of Great Britain, Ireland and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Princess Royal (Buckingham Palace, 21 November 1840 - Friedrichshof, 5 August 1901)

Dynasty: Hohenzollern

Reign: 1888 - 1888

Predecessor: Emperor Wilhelm I of Germany, King of Prussia

Successor: Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany, King of Prussia

Children: Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany, King of Prussia; Duchess Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen; Prince Heinrich of Prussia; Prince Sigismund of Prussia; Princess Viktoria of Schaumburg-Lippe; Prince Waldemar of Prussia; Queen Sophie of the Hellenes and Landgravine Margrethe of Hesse-Kassel

Parents Friedrich: Emperor Wilhelm I of Germany, King of Prussia and Princess Augusta of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach

Parents Victoria: Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, Prince Consort of Great-Britain and Ireland and Queen Victoria of Great Britain & Ireland, Empress of India.

Sister Friedrich: Grand Duchess Luise of Baden

Siblings Victoria: King Edward VII of Great-Britain and Ireland; Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse and the Rhine; Duke Alfred of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh; Princess Helena of Schleswig- Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg; Louise, Duchess of Argyll; Prince Arthur of Great-Britain, Duke of Connaught; Prince Leopold of Great-Britain, Duke of Albany and Princess Beatrice of Battenberg

Marengo 04-22-2008 04:13 AM

Frederick III (Frederick William Nicholas Charles, German: Friedrich Wilhelm Nikolaus Karl; October 18, 1831 – June 15, 1888), (German: Friedrich III., Deutscher Kaiser und König von Preußen) was German Emperor and King of Prussia, ruling for 99 days until his death in 1888.

Frederick William (as he was known before he assumed the throne), nicknamed 'Fritz', like so many other of his German relatives, was born in the New Palace at Potsdam, a scion of the House of Hohenzollern. His father, Prince William of Prussia was a younger brother of King Frederick William IV of Prussia. Prussia at the time was no more than an average military state, recovering at the time from the aftermath of the Napoleonic Wars. His mother, Princess Augusta of Saxe-Weimar, had been brought up in a very different atmosphere. Weimar was the first German state to grant its subjects a constitution. His parents' marriage was also not a love match. Frederick's parents were quite ill-suited to one another. His father had been in love with Elisa Radziwill, a minor Princess of the Polish aristocracy. He was forced to give her up due to her unequal rank and marry a dynastically suitable Princess. This he did out of duty. Princess Augusta was well known across Europe for her liberal views. It is not surprising therefore that Frederick's adult memories were always of a lonely childhood in a home dominated by his ill-matched parents. He had one sister Louise, later Grand Duchess of Baden. Although Fritz was eight years Louise's senior (he was born 1831; Louise in 1839, making her only one year older than her future sister-in-law), the two siblings were very close.

The Hohenzollern family traditionally valued a military education. It was Frederick's mother that insisted that her son be educated according to liberal ideas. Therefore his education was closely supervised and extremely thorough. He was a talented student and was particularly good at foreign languages. He became fluent in English and French and also studied Latin as well as History, Geography, Physics, Music and Religion. Frederick was also good at gymnastics and became very good rider as required of a Prussian Prince. Like all Hohenzollern Princes he became familiar from a particularly young age with the military traditions of the dynasty. At the age of ten, in accordance with family tradition, he was commissioned second lieutenant in the First Infantry Regiment of Guards, and was invested with the Order of the Black Eagle. As a Prussian Prince, Frederick was expected to become actively involved as a military commander and strategist. Later, breaking with Hohenzollern tradition, he studied history, literature and law at the University at Bonn. His future father-in-law, Prince Albert, had studied there.

Read the entire wikipedia article here.

Marengo 04-22-2008 04:16 AM

The Princess Victoria, Princess Royal (Victoria Adelaide Mary Louisa) 21 November 1840 – 5 August 1901) was the eldest child and daughter of Queen Victoria and her consort Albert. She was created Princess Royal of the United Kingdom in 1841. She became German Empress and Queen of Prussia by marriage to German Emperor Frederick III. After her husband's death, she became widely known as Empress Frederick (or, in German: "Kaiserin Friedrich").

Princess Victoria was born on 21 November 1840 at Buckingham Palace, London. Her mother was the reigning British monarch, Queen Victoria, the only daughter of King George III's fourth eldest son, Prince Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent and Victoria, Duchess of Kent. Her father was Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. She was baptised in the Throne Room of Buckingham Palace on 10 February 1841 by William Howley, Archbishop of Canterbury and her godparents were the Dowager Queen Adelaide, the King of the Belgians, the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, the Duke of Sussex, the Duchess of Gloucester and her maternal grandmother, Duchess of Kent.
As a daughter of the sovereign, Victoria was automatically a British princess with the style Her Royal Highness, styled HRH The Princess Victoria (and in addition being heiress presumptive to the throne of the United Kingdom before the birth of her younger brother Prince Albert, later Edward VII on 9 November 1841). In 1841, the Queen created Victoria Princess Royal, giving her an honorary title sometimes conferred on the eldest daughter of the sovereign. Victoria was then styled HRH The Princess Royal. To her family she was known simply as Vicky.
The education of Victoria was closely supervised by her parents. She was precocious and intelligent, unlike her brother Albert Edward. She was taught to read and write before the age of five by her governess Lady Lyttelton and to speak French by her French nursery maid. The Princess Royal learned French and German from various governesses, and science, literature, Latin, and history from Sara Ann Hildyard. Prince Albert tutored her in politics and philosophy.

In 1851, Victoria met her future husband, Prince Frederick William of Prussia (18 October 1831 – 15 June 1888), when he and his parents were invited to London by Queen Victoria and Prince Albert to attend the opening of the Great Exhibition. At the time, Frederick, the son of Prince William of Prussia and Princess Augusta of Saxe-Weimar, was second in line to the Prussian throne. The couple became engaged in 1855 while Frederick was on a visit to Balmoral; Victoria was just fourteen, while her future husband was a young man of twenty-four.
The Prussian Court and Buckingham Palace publicly announced the engagement on 19 May 1857. Seventeen-year-old Victoria married Frederick, at Queen Victoria's insistence, at the Chapel Royal, St. James's Palace, on 25 January 1858. The marriage was both a love match and a dynastic alliance. The Queen and Prince Albert hoped that Victoria's marriage to the future king of Prussia would cement close ties between London and Berlin, and possibly lead to the emergence of a unified and liberal Germany.

Read the entire wikipedia artile here.

magnik 05-07-2008 01:05 PM

Here you go few pictures of Victoria Victoria's Daughters pictures from history photos on webshots

Thanks to empressfrederick:flowers:

And site about her Kaiserin Friedrich - Startseite

PssMarie-Elisabeth 07-23-2008 11:11 PM

Vicky & Fritz

PssMarie-Elisabeth 07-23-2008 11:13 PM

Leslie2006 08-25-2008 03:16 PM
Vicky's daughter, Victoria ("Moretta") of Prussia
Vicky with her Greek grandson, the future George II

CarolinaLandgrave 11-17-2008 02:43 PM

Like mother like daughter..... Empress Victoria sure does look like Queen Victoria in the two earlier pictures.
Had Fritz reigned longer than a few months, I wonder if the German Empire would have taken an entirely different path than it did with Wilhelm coming to the thrown so quickly.

Avicenna 11-19-2008 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 854635)
Had Fritz reigned longer than a few months, I wonder if the German Empire would have taken an entirely different path than it did with Wilhelm coming to the thrown so quickly.

Noone knows what would have happened in this case. But we know one thing: when be offered the crown by his father in the early 1860ies he hesitated and declined. The unwillingness to take over responsibility is no good trait for a leader IMHO.

And what a mistake that was. There was another time when the King was wounded by a gunman when he again wanted to abdicate. In both situations Fredrick talked his father against it. In his defence he beleived that a King was King for life. From my readings I don't think that Friedrick was as liberal as he was made out to be, certainly Vicky was the more liberal. However I also firmly beleive that if he had been given a decent amount of time to reign, Prussia, and Germany as whole would have become a constitutional monarch and his successors, ie Wilhlem, wouldn't have had to room to say or do as much harm as he did. This I think wuld have prevented the 1st and thus the 2nd world wars.

Patricia Kollander believed that Vicky had "Mangel an politischer Urteilsfähigkeit" (lack of political understanding) and that following her (Vickys) ideas would have caused unrest and complications in foreign relations. ("die Befolgung ihrer Ratschläge ... innere Unruhen und außenpolitische Komplikationen noch während ihrer eigenen Lebenszeit " Source: Patricia Kollander, Kaiserin Friedrich - die letzte Hoffnung für ein liberales Deutschland? (German translation of the article in "The Historian" Fall 1999).

Therefor who knows what would have happened, if Friedrich had been emperor for a longer period of time. Had he taken over the first time, there wouldn't have been the iron chancellor Bismark for sure. Therefor, it is reasonable to assume that a lot more things might have turned out differently, including the wars against e.g. Denmark, France ...
I agree on the constitutional idea. However this does not necessarily mean the path would have been better. Democratic leaders can also do a lot wrong (as witnessed the last years ...).

Patricia Kollander - Kaiserin Friedrich unfortunatly German only. I will see, if I find the English version.

Frederick III —

"However, he only condoned liberal reform on the basis of the constitutional status quo, rejecting his wife's wish to see British political institutions adopted in Germany. Although Frederick contributed to the survival of liberalism as a political force, the author concludes, the extent of his liberal views have been exaggerated by many historians."

Not the article of "The Historian" yet. But still intersting.

Empress Frederick: The Last Hope for a Liberal Germany?
Journal article by Patricia Kollander; The Historian, Vol. 62, 1999.

Unfortunatly I could not find the complete article in English.

Best information (without user account): EMPRESS FREDERICK: THE LAST HOPE FOR A LIBERAL GERMANY? (22-SEP-99) The Historian

or (if you have an account for history) on Questia. I have none, Sorry.

Marengo 11-21-2008 09:31 AM

Though things may have gone differently indeed we should not forget that Bismarck was the exponent of a greater German mood, a mood that wanted a united and strong Germany. In that process these wars were sort of inavitable. When Bismarck was 'saturiert', had what he & others thought would be Germany's natural shape etc. he didn't go for more. It was only when Wilhelm II came into power that Germany had even greater ambitions, with a disastrous result for the country & Europe.

Furthermore I am not sure what democratic changes Friedrich III actually wanted, I agree with fearghas, it seems all nice enough to talk about these things but when you actually have to rule what happened to all these liberal thoughts? In many cases nothing at all. I think that during his short reign Friedrich actually came to an appreciation of Otto Bismarck, something shared even by his wife.

Avicenna 11-21-2008 12:04 PM

Marengo, the only offer of abdication I know of was in September 1862 because of the reform of the army. It was the refusal of Friedrich III which opened the door for Bismarck who was appointed Chancellor afterwards. Patricia Kollander has outlined this in her work Frederic III, Germanys liberal emperor, 1995, page 37-45. Also please see Riehl, Tanz um den Äquator, Berlin, 1993. It is assumed that Bismarck's reason for his colonial strategy was partly caused to create friction with England, Vicky's homeland. Christopher Clark mentions the event only shortly in his book on Prussia (page 591 German version).

If Friedrich III had accepted in Sept 1862, I doubt Bismarck would have become Chancellor at all. There too many ifs what would have happened in a reign of Friedrich starting 1862.

Also I doubt Vicky ever grew to appreciate Bismarck. He was dismissed in 1890. When he met Wilhelm in January 1894, she wrote in a letter to Queen Victoria: "Natürlich ist es gut, dass die persönlichen Beziehungen eine höfliche und angenehme Form annehmen .... , ich bin aber einigermaßen besorgt, dass die Tatsache seines hiesigen Auftauchens, als ... Rückkehr zu politischer Macht, Gunst und Einfluss gedeutet wird, was ich als verhängnisvoll bezeichnen würde." Source: Hannah Pakula, an uncommon women, unfortunatly German version. Translated it means that she approves a friendly form of personal relations, but she is concerned that the meeting might be interpreted as a return of Bismarck to political power and influence. Remember the Battenberg affair? I doubt Vicky ever forgot it.

In a letter to her daughter Sophie in 1895 she wrote: "He was a man of rare energy, astuteness and shrewdness and ability, but not of lofty and noble aspiration. He was unscrupulous, false and tyrannical to a (certain) degree, and a bitter and vindictive enemy to any one who dared to oppose him or even disagree with him, or who he found in his way. No means were too bad to employ to getting rid of whoever seemed a hindrance, and he suspected and persecuted the most innocent people in a shameful way. He completely corrupted the public conscience and crushed all independance of character and opinion."

Furthermore she mentions that they suffered awfully for 25 years! A man using no matter what tool to get it his way done. The source is: Arthur Gould Lee, The Empress Frederick writes to Sophie, Crown Princess and later Queen of the Hellenes, London, 1955, page 194. Does this sound like appreciation? ... Not to me.

PssMarie-Elisabeth 02-16-2009 05:00 PM

Princesses Victoria(Moretta), Sophie, and Margarethe(Mossy)
2 Attachment(s)
The 3 youngest daughters of Friedrich III & Empress Friedrich of Prussia

Vicky2010 10-08-2010 11:46 AM

Empress Frederick - Empress Victoria of Pussia
I would like to publish a picture bond over the Empress Frederick. I admittedly have already very many pictures together from diverent, I still looks for interesting pictures I, however, can use. Picture rights already then should exist. Who can help me? Thanks

Warren 10-08-2010 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by Vicky2010 (Post 1145331)
Picture rights already then should exist.

I'm not sure what you are asking but any images of the Empress Frederick will be free of copyright. The exception is any photograph of a painting or portrait etc where the copyright is still held by the photograher or owner (eg The Royal Household © Copyright, Royal Collection Picture Library © Copyright etc).

CarolinaLandgrave 10-10-2010 08:29 PM

I read today, in Pope-Hennessy's "Queen Mary" that his father had hoped for an Imperial Grand Duchess as bride for Fritz instead of Vicky.....
Which Grand Duchess did old Wilhelm have his eye on? And how did the Wilhelm let Augusta talk him into a marriage with her dear friend's daughter versus a daughter in law of Imperial status???

EmpressRouge 10-10-2010 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1146068)
I read today, in Pope-Hennessy's "Queen Mary" that his father had hoped for an Imperial Grand Duchess as bride for Fritz instead of Vicky.....
Which Grand Duchess did old Wilhelm have his eye on? And how did the Wilhelm let Augusta talk him into a marriage with her dear friend's daughter versus a daughter in law of Imperial status???

That is interesting. You're speaking of Russian Grand Duchesses, right? There weren't that many who were age-appropriate for Fritz? There were the daughters of Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, although most of them were a few years older than Fritz and the two closest to him in age died young. There was Alexandra, eldest daughter of Alexander II, who was similar to Vicky in age, but also died young.

CarolinaLandgrave 10-10-2010 10:23 PM

Yes m'am.... the book alluded to a match with Russia rather than Great Britain.... saying that Wilhelm wanted a Russian DIL rather than Vicky.

GD Michael Pavlovitch's wife was a Nassau???
GD Alexandra was the elder, deceased sister of Marie Edinburgh... correct?

EmpressRouge 10-11-2010 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1146082)
GD Michael Pavlovitch's wife was a Nassau???

No. His wife was a Wurttemburg (Charlotte aka Elena Pavlovna), like his mother. His daughter, Elizabeth married a Nassau but died young in childbirth and the present Grand Dukes of Luxembourg are descended from the Duke of Nassau's second second marriage. Elizabeth brought to Luxembourg an impressive, very big, high tiara that still remains in the family. It was the tiara Grand Duchess Maria Teresa wore to Crown Princess Victoria's wedding.

Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1146082)
GD Alexandra was the elder, deceased sister of Marie Edinburgh... correct?

Yes. She died at age six before Marie was born.

CarolinaLandgrave 10-11-2010 05:51 PM

Thank you! I remember seeing a Nassau in there somewhere....

Guess maybe Vicky was the ONLY choice of a bride for Fritz.....

EmpressRouge 10-12-2010 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1146381)
Thank you! I remember seeing a Nassau in there somewhere....

Guess maybe Vicky was the ONLY choice of a bride for Fritz.....

There might have been other princesses closer in age, but the Prussians were very concerned about the purity of royal blood. Vicky was the daughter of a powerful Queen, so it was in a way, a dynastic alliance. But remember, Fritz and Vicky had a genuine love match and Vicky was intelligent and well-educated to be a Queen of Prussia, although ultimately of the wrong political leaning.

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