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-   -   Prince Ernst August (V) and the Royal House of Hanover (March 2008-) (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f78/prince-ernst-august-v-and-the-royal-house-of-hanover-march-2008-a-16399.html)

Lady Daly 07-31-2020 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2329236)
I googled it: § 3 UbG states - If a crazy person is a danger to himself or others, this person can get incarcerated against the person's will into a psychiatric ward.
https://vertretungsnetz.at/fileadmin...e_2013_web.pdf

Now, one can imagine, that it takes a lot of hurdles, to bring someone into a mental facility, but if done so, it is surely not easy to get out! :ermm:

So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements (§ 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
• The person is mentally ill,
• there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
• and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.

In the US there are several ways to go about this. An initial involuntary hold is served by law enforcement, the person is brought into a psychiatric lockdown unit where they are evaluated by psychiatry within a 72hr involuntary hold time period. The person is either discharged thereafter or if they meet the above criteria then a legal hold for a much longer period of time eg 14 days, 30 days etc. requiring further civil court orders unless they have committed a crime. That would be a game changer. I really don't know much about Prince Ernst August other than the forums. If he were hospitalized he could also be medically evaluated for things like end stage liver disease, organic brain disorders, and receive proper treatment. Amazing what good medical care can accomplish. It seems to me the family could appeal through the courts via a physician statement and attorney to put the wheels in motion.

victor1319 07-31-2020 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Daly (Post 2331112)
So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements (§ 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
• The person is mentally ill,
• there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
• and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.


Yep, these are the requirements! In Germany we have some "jokes" about "The Gods in black and white" - Judges and medical Doctors. But for poor Ernst August this might be no joke anymore soon enough. And to get treated and incarcerated against one's will is surely a terrifying shock!

I was asked above not to say Ernst August is "crazy" but rather to choose the wording "mental health issues". Well, Ernst August is for sure crazy, but that does not mean that he is necessarily rippled by mental health issues - maybe he is just lonely, excentric and his body is sick, but not his mind... Let's hope for the best!

eya 08-07-2020 01:56 AM

Princess Eugenia ,daughter of Prince Heinrich and niece of Ernst August make her first steps in the world of fashion


https://www.hola.com/realeza/2020080...incesa-modelo/

titiromi 08-07-2020 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya (Post 2332759)
Princess Eugenia ,daughter of Prince Heinrich and niece of Ernst August make her first steps in the world of fashion


https://www.hola.com/realeza/2020080...incesa-modelo/

She is very pretty.

Countessmeout 08-07-2020 03:47 AM

She has stunning eyes. :flowers:

Marc23 08-08-2020 12:13 AM

Well, her mother was very pretty in her youth too...and still is. ;)

wartenberg7 08-08-2020 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2332774)
She has stunning eyes. :flowers:

Definitely her father´s eyes (at least on the 1st, top pic). Her mouth reminds me also a lot of Heinrich´s!

eya 09-08-2020 04:23 AM

"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grünau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

CrownPrincessJava 09-08-2020 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya (Post 2341102)
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grünau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

:sad:
It's clear the Prince is suffering from severe mental health issues. I hope his family are able to get the medical help he needs.

lazuli 09-08-2020 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya (Post 2341102)
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grünau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html


AGAIN??? Oh dear... :sad:

Lady Daly 09-08-2020 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Daly (Post 2331112)
So the legal criteria for essentially committing someone to a psychiatric facility is very similar to the US. I opened up the file above and google translated:
Requirements (§ 3 UbG)
A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time:
• The person is mentally ill,
• there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons,
• and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing.

In the US there are several ways to go about this. An initial involuntary hold is served by law enforcement, the person is brought into a psychiatric lockdown unit where they are evaluated by psychiatry within a 72hr involuntary hold time period. The person is either discharged thereafter or if they meet the above criteria then a legal hold for a much longer period of time eg 14 days, 30 days etc. requiring further civil court orders unless they have committed a crime. That would be a game changer. I really don't know much about Prince Ernst August other than the forums. If he were hospitalized he could also be medically evaluated for things like end stage liver disease, organic brain disorders, and receive proper treatment. Amazing what good medical care can accomplish. It seems to me the family could appeal through the courts via a physician statement and attorney to put the wheels in motion.

Once again, we can try to avert our eyes away from the obvious yet until Prince Ernest August receives proper medical attention which includes both psychiatric and medical treatment these events will continue until there is no chance of it ending well.

Denville 09-08-2020 07:29 AM

I doubt if he's going to improve much. He has easy access to mental and physical health care but my impression is that he doesn't want to avail of it, and isn't likely to take any better care of himself.

lazuli 09-08-2020 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2341130)
I doubt if he's going to improve much. He has easy access to mental and physical health care but my impression is that he doesn't want to avail of it, and isn't likely to take any better care of himself.


I feel so sorry for him and his family... He seems to be profoundly depressed, as if he had no reasons to live anymore and, yet, he has so many... :sad:

Denville 09-08-2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazuli (Post 2341133)
I feel so sorry for him and his family... He seems to be profoundly depressed, as if he had no reasons to live anymore and, yet, he has so many... :sad:

I'd save my sympathy for people who have a lot wrose problems than him. He seems to be a selfish individual who has acted in a bizarre way for years, abused drink and drugs.. and generally made a nuisance of himself.

Heavs 09-08-2020 08:43 AM

Even if the legal criteria are actually there it can be very hard to get someone sectioned, even if you are beginning the police and health professionals for help. And even then it's hard to hold them for long. Especially if they have money.

His family has enough money for the best private rehabs/mental health clinics in the world to send specialist teams to try and persuade him he needs help and maybe they have. Maybe he has even attended some of them. But unless you're willing to admit you need have a problem and need help and work on yourself and your recovery with the support of professionals and and/or a support group nothing is going to work however many people try to be there for him or how many incidents he has.

Lady Daly 09-08-2020 09:32 AM

It is difficult to understand that a person can be so ill they are unable to process reality or think like a normal person. This can be psychiatric or physical or in the princes case most likely a combination. If someone has cancer you don't wait until they are terminal to start treatment. Same with the Prince yet he is not cognitively capable of determining he needs care. It also appears he is a danger to others: "The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion... The 66-year-old is said to have asked the (caretaking) couple to run away. Otherwise he would send a gang of thugs on their necks. In addition, the prince is said to have torn out a traffic sign and smashed a window on an object belonging to the Duke of Cumberland Foundation."
https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html

I know it is very different from country to country as to the process of committing a person who is a danger to himself or a danger to others. At some point law enforcement and the courts take precedent but as pointed out he has money and status which I agree makes it more difficult to commit him for care no matter the jurisdiction.

Moonmaiden23 09-08-2020 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eya (Post 2341102)
"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grünau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."


https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html


Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?:cool::sad:

victor1319 09-08-2020 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2341165)
Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?:cool::sad:

https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...er=NOR40050629

Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration.

That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail? :ermm::eek:

Denville 09-08-2020 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341172)
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...er=NOR40050629

Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration.

That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail? :ermm::eek:

what if they do? I doubt it will do any good but its probably something they should do. however I don't think he is going to change.

Lady Daly 09-08-2020 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 2341165)
Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?:cool::sad:

Good point Moonmaiden, meaning probationary to be changed at a later date. Possibly a court date or charges dropped?? Yes, very sad. The man is in serious need of medical care.

Lady Daly 09-08-2020 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341172)
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokument.w...er=NOR40050629

Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration.

That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail? :ermm::eek:

Interesting, Victor. I'm wondering if he was jailed or hospitalized or by now has been release back home?:eek: It was also interesting the article in bold lettering stated police were wearing body cameras. The only reason I can see for a "shrink"/psychiatrist to be brought in is to determine his state of mind. It appears to be another "ground hog day" for Prince Ernst August. :ohmy::sad:

victor1319 09-08-2020 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Daly (Post 2341196)
The only reason I can see for a "shrink"/psychiatrist to be brought in is to determine his state of mind.


Well, if he gets a "fit" and starts to threaten the police officers again, he might be faster under psychological observation/evaluation, than one thinks! And from there it is just a small step into the psychiatric ward...

His family should have gotten him under control long ago! I mean, what we knw, we know almost exclusively out of the media - and what do they know anyway?

But there was no interview of his sons, brother, wifes, whatever, that showed, his family has at least tried... It is a cold world, the high nobility...

Heavs 09-08-2020 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341201)
Well, if he gets a "fit" and starts to threaten the police officers again, he might be faster under psychological observation/evaluation, than one thinks! And from there it is just a small step into the psychiatric ward...

His family should have gotten him under control long ago! I mean, what we knw, we know almost exclusively out of the media - and what do they know anyway?

But there was no interview of his sons, brother, wifes, whatever, that showed, his family has at least tried... It is a cold world, the high nobility...

If he doesn't accept that he needs help there's only a limited amount any family member can do. Especially when dealing with someone who's wealthy and powerful. You can't force someone to get well when dealing with mental health and addiction, even if you can get them sober for a while.

I can't imagine how his his sons giving an interview about how they've tried to help him would improve the situation. They'd be accused of airing private issues in public and trying to get attention using their ill father. And if Caroline said anything....international headlines! And it's doubtful Ernst August would listen anyway. Probably start a family media war "he said, they said" and cause more chaos with paparazzi following him all the time.

They could have begged him to get help and be fearing that this time he won't make it.

Or they could just have completely washed their hands of the situation and ignore him. We just don't know.

Florestane 09-08-2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341201)
Well, if he gets a "fit" and starts to threaten the police officers again, he might be faster under psychological observation/evaluation, than one thinks! And from there it is just a small step into the psychiatric ward...

His family should have gotten him under control long ago! I mean, what we knw, we know almost exclusively out of the media - and what do they know anyway?

But there was no interview of his sons, brother, wifes, whatever, that showed, his family has at least tried... It is a cold world, the high nobility...

It isn't a cold world - it's private! Why would they give interviews to discuss the private pain of their father's psychiatric and physical health problems.

victor1319 09-08-2020 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florestane (Post 2341215)
It isn't a cold world - it's private! Why would they give interviews to discuss the private pain of their father's psychiatric and physical health problems.


Oh, we know a lot about them and they did not hesitate to inform us about their monies, their struggles about who inherits what and when... We know really a lot about their material state of life!

We even know that much, that we can answer the question "Cui bono" if the old Prince gets declared unfit...:ermm:

Florestane 09-09-2020 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341217)
Oh, we know a lot about them and they did not hesitate to inform us about their monies, their struggles about who inherits what and when... We know really a lot about their material state of life!

We even know that much, that we can answer the question "Cui bono" if the old Prince gets declared unfit...:ermm:

I didn't say we don't know a lot about them. We know about things which are in the public domain because there are public documents or because Ernst spouted off about them.

None of which means his family have to give interviews about his health or erratic behaviour.

Duke of Marmalade 09-09-2020 12:51 PM

Ernst August was set free under certain conditions. His license to keep weapons (he is a hunter) was revoked. I am shocked that with everything that has happened, he was allowed to keep weapons in the house. In Germany, if you have a license and you are caught drunk, on foot or bike or in a car, and they find out you have a license you have to give up license immediately even though the weapons were not involved in any incident.
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...2-b4d7abc56abd

Lady Daly 09-09-2020 02:28 PM

:previous:
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...2-b4d7abc56abd

So the prince has been released with a "provisional" gun ban in place and "instructed to stay in a certain place, not to make contact with the alleged victims and to stay away from the alleged crime scene".

So no hospital for Prince Ernst August, he was sent to Wels prison this time. Since being released no ones talking. "The House of Hanover did not want to comment. Even the law firm of the Guelph Prince did not want to comment on the content of the matter."

I hate to think what the princes next unilateral move might be. Law enforcement does seem to be giving him a lot of chances to behave. However, does it also seem like this might be his last chance. "According to the public prosecutor's office, the great-grandson of the last German Emperor Wilhelm II could face up to three years imprisonment in the event of a final conviction. Until then, the presumption of innocence applies"

I have no idea what Austrian prisons are like, but now might be the time for a voluntary hospitalization. What a mess. I wonder how much the family is involved, if any at this point. It truly is a sad situation.

MissJanet 09-09-2020 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2341135)
I'd save my sympathy for people who have a lot wrose problems than him. He seems to be a selfish individual who has acted in a bizarre way for years, abused drink and drugs.. and generally made a nuisance of himself.

I do not like him at all, but in all fairness, maybe the drugs and the alcohol are his attempts at self-medication for depression. He could also suffer from Alzheimer or Dementia.

Denville 09-09-2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissJanet (Post 2341449)
I do not like him at all, but in all fairness, maybe the drugs and the alcohol are his attempts at self-medication for depression. He could also suffer from Alzheimer or Dementia.

He's been like this for years. There are people with addictions or mental health problems who may be unhappy and somewhat difficult but they don't behave like he does. And he is well off enough to get good mental health and addiction assistance if he wants it...

Lady Daly 09-09-2020 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissJanet (Post 2341449)
I do not like him at all, but in all fairness, maybe the drugs and the alcohol are his attempts at self-medication for depression. He could also suffer from Alzheimer or Dementia.

Your assessment could all be true. The prince has had a long history of bad behavior including multiple alcohol related hospitalizations. Prince Ernst August V of Hanover | Unofficial Royalty

Florestane 09-09-2020 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2341464)
He's been like this for years. There are people with addictions or mental health problems who may be unhappy and somewhat difficult but they don't behave like he does. And he is well off enough to get good mental health and addiction assistance if he wants it...

Yes, but addiction is the key word - easier said than done. It's a disease.

Which doesn't mean he would necessarily be a pleasant person if he weren't ill.

He was considered quite good company and charming in his younger days but it seems his father and brothers have/had "strong" personalities in one way or another - a dysfunctional family in many ways. His sisters seem more balanced.

REAL COUNTESS 09-09-2020 06:15 PM

Prince Ernst August V has been very nice when he was Pss Caroline's husband,what ever went wrong turned him into a horror.On top of that he is a LUSH. The last few episodes maybe a cry for help, I hope he'll get it. He has a super big ego and feels he is entitled to what ever he can get,with no penalty. If I would be in his family, I would not want to give any comments either. He should pull himself up and be what he is a GRANDFATHER and spend time with the little ones. Maybe he should also feed himself a spoon full of Humility,he needs it.

Denville 09-09-2020 06:27 PM

I think all this is very unlikely ot happen, It would probably be a good thing if he did end up In court and possibly he would be made to have treatment

Countessmeout 09-09-2020 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341217)
Oh, we know a lot about them and they did not hesitate to inform us about their monies, their struggles about who inherits what and when... We know really a lot about their material state of life!

We even know that much, that we can answer the question "Cui bono" if the old Prince gets declared unfit...:ermm:

At no time did his family sit down and give an interview on such subjects.

Not giving a public interview about their father's mental illness/addiction is being cold?? No its called keeping private things private. Revealing private medical information about their father doesn't benefit anyone including him.

Families can do everything they can to help a person but if they refuse to get help sometimes they hit a wall in trying to help. Royals (former royals) are not immune to that issue. Money doesn't buy you good health or less struggles. It simply means that if you are willing to get the help needed, you have more resources to be able to do so.

I do hope he goes to trial over this. Maybe the courts can force him to get the help his family has been unable to get him to go to.

victor1319 09-09-2020 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2341493)
At no time did his family sit down and give an interview on such subjects.

Which subjects? Their Riches?

Ernst August jr. gave a long interview in the "HAZ", Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung, this year end of January about the financial situation of the House: Why he sold the Marienburg castle and what happend to the 44 million Euro from the 2005 art sale. I can't find it online, but the interview is mentioned here:
https://www.express.de/news/promi-un...rkauf-31972968

And he gave long interviews, before his plans for the Marienburg castle failed, in which he explicitly talked about the financial situation:
https://www.haz.de/Hannover/Aus-der-...-HAZ-Interview

There was this docu with the brother of EA sr., Prince Heinrich, about the nazi roots of large parts of their fortune (just a snippet linked):
https://www.ndr.de/geschichte/chrono...n,adel234.html


and so on...

Countessmeout 09-09-2020 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341506)
Which subjects? Their Riches?

Ernst August jr. gave a long interview in the "HAZ", Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung, this year end of January about the financial situation of the House: Why he sold the Marienburg castle and what happend to the 44 million Euro from the 2005 art sale. I can't find it online, but the interview is mentioned here:
https://www.express.de/news/promi-un...rkauf-31972968

And he gave long interviews, before his plans for the Marienburg castle failed, in which he explicitly talked about the financial situation:
https://www.haz.de/Hannover/Aus-der-...-HAZ-Interview

There was this docu with the brother of EA sr., Prince Heinrich, about the nazi roots of large parts of their fortune (just a snippet linked):
https://www.ndr.de/geschichte/chrono...n,adel234.html


and so on...

These were legal matters. Ones that if he hadn't given an interview about, people could have found out by looking at documents. Not private information about personal family discussions.

I don't know how anyone can compare the selling of an estate to discussing the struggle with mental health of one's father. One is public information, one for very good reason, is private and not public business at all.


Nor is acknowledging a darker side of family history remotely the same thing. Again history and something documented.


They aren't leaking family secrets in tell all books or interviews.

victor1319 09-10-2020 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2341507)
These were legal matters. Ones that if he hadn't given an interview about, people could have found out by looking at documents. Not private information about personal family discussions.

No, these were not "legal", but financial matters! "Legal" matters would have been, if they had discussed in public, what they did, that Senior wanted the part of the inheretence from Junior back, he had gifted to Junior - because of, how he did put it, big ungratefulness...

And this legal question leads to the "cui bono" thingy: Who benefits most, if Senior ends up locked up and declared unfit to do business?

And since to world is full of suspicious minds like mine, at least Junior would be well advised, to wash his hands in innnocence - publically. Or to ride in and to help his father, what would be even better!

Countessmeout 09-10-2020 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2341522)
No, these were not "legal", but financial matters! "Legal" matters would have been, if they had discussed in public, what they did, that Senior wanted the part of the inheretence from Junior back, he had gifted to Junior - because of, how he did put it, big ungratefulness...

And this legal question leads to the "cui bono" thingy: Who benefits most, if Senior ends up locked up and declared unfit to do business?

And since to world is full of suspicious minds like mine, at least Junior would be well advised, to wash his hands in innnocence - publically. Or to ride in and to help his father, what would be even better!

Financial matters are Legal matters. There are contracts and legal requirements when dealing with large estates. This wasn't a pass some bucks under the table type of business. Land deeds were involved. This is all Legal paper work. All that there would be Legal public record of.

He already handed over control of a good chunk of the family estate to his sons to manage years ago.

No one benefits from him being declared unfit. There is no evidence to believe that his sons are heartless and ruthless, and would be happy to snap up his fortune from him (what is left that he controls still).


To be quite honest the fact you think his sons should air his dirty laundry, and talk about his mental illness to the public and 'oh how we are helping him' is sad at best. I'd find that more cold and aloof then anything. Public humiliation of your father serves no purpose either.


Innocence? Maybe we should leave conspiracy theories of his sons gaslighting him off the board? And stick to known fact.

victor1319 09-10-2020 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2341525)
And stick to known fact.

Yes, you are right! My apologies! :flowers:

I don't want to transform just another part of The Royal Forums into a kind of another "sussex thread"...

BTW Is it just me, or has The Royal Forums gotten a more dark note lately? Sussex, Waringo, Guelphs and so on - where are the good news?

REAL COUNTESS 10-03-2020 04:32 PM

No news about Prince E A of Hanover senior, seems to be good news. I hope he got help and get back to his charming self again.

victor1319 01-15-2021 12:42 AM

It is getting hot...
 
So, two weeks ago Prince Ernst August was indicted by an Austrian attorney of state: The Prince is, if convicted, faceing up to three years imprisonment for hurting folks and threatening them under influence in four cases.

The court wants him to see a medical expert witness(?).[1]

His defence: His housekeepers supplyed him with alcohol, albeit they knew, that he was sick. The fun part: These housekeepers were his first victims - so, he says, it was their fault.[2]


Sources (sorry, in German only):
[1] https://www.merkur.de/boulevard/erns...-90155870.html

[2] https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...h-alkohol.html

rominet09 01-15-2021 07:16 AM

Houkeepers are paid to comply with their boss orders, I can't believe his defence argue that as an excuse. Sorry for my poor English !

Heavs 01-15-2021 07:48 AM

If they hadn't bought him alcohol then he probably would have become abusive about that. If this is true then he really has no excuses. Blaming the victims because they gave him booze, blaming them for bringing him booze or being drunk doesn't excuse is alleged actions.

He really isn't a well man in any sense of the word it seems but until he makes an effort to get help and change nothing anyone does for him will work.

victor1319 01-15-2021 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rominet09 (Post 2366620)
Houkeepers are paid to comply with their boss orders, I can't believe his defence argue that as an excuse. Sorry for my poor English !

Yep, this "excuse" might make his past actions look even worse in the eyes of the court: Because he shows no remorse and is not taking any responsibilities! Both would probably lead to a sentence "on probation", especially if one considers, that he is seriously ill.

And, rominet, your English is surely better than mine. I am certified as "upper intermediate" - what means in straight language: "talks like a kid" :lol: .

REAL COUNTESS 01-15-2021 12:51 PM

It is so much easier to blame someone else for ones short comings and hope the next person is dumb enough to believe it. Prince EA lost his sparkle long ago. If blaming the housekeeper don't work, he can always say, The Devil made me do it. I just wish he would have paid more attention to his son's and his four grandchildren, they may never met him. Again that is of his own doing. He is a spoiled over the hill old man, with lots of lost charm and he is used to getting it his way. I hope he will be sent to a Hospital, because jail he will never survive.

MsJulie 01-15-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2366643)
Yep, this "excuse" might make his past actions look even worse in the eyes of the court: Because he shows no remorse and is not taking any responsibilities! Both would probably lead to a sentence "on probation", especially if one considers, that he is seriously ill.

And, rominet, your English is surely better than mine. I am certified as "upper intermediate" - what means in straight language: "talks like a kid" :lol: .

Rominet and Victor.....your English is great! You write and talk better then some English speaking people. I understood you perfectly. Now to train my spellchecker on the computer. I think that’s hopeless

Thank you for all the info and comments on the Prince.

Countessmeout 01-15-2021 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS (Post 2366660)
It is so much easier to blame someone else for ones short comings and hope the next person is dumb enough to believe it. Prince EA lost his sparkle long ago. If blaming the housekeeper don't work, he can always say, The Devil made me do it. I just wish he would have paid more attention to his son's and his four grandchildren, they may never met him. Again that is of his own doing. He is a spoiled over the hill old man, with lots of lost charm and he is used to getting it his way. I hope he will be sent to a Hospital, because jail he will never survive.

Though not married or with kids, I'd think his daughter would have also appreciated more of his time and attention. Over his lifestyle these years.

Heck even his stepchildren have been effected by his choices. I remember Pierre spending the night int he hospital in Peru with his stepfather so that Christian didn't have to leave his wedding.


Any judge worth his salt should throw out the argument without blinking. You can't blame a servant for following the orders of their boss. Unless asked to do something criminal, then yes they have the right to refuse. They would have faced being fired, and subjected to more abuse, for refusing the man. They are not to blame for his dangerous behavior or actions after he drank.


One can only hope for a hospital at this point. And longer stay then the last.

rominet09 01-15-2021 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2366643)
Yep, this "excuse" might make his past actions look even worse in the eyes of the court: Because he shows no remorse and is not taking any responsibilities! Both would probably lead to a sentence "on probation", especially if one considers, that he is seriously ill.

And, rominet, your English is surely better than mine. I am certified as "upper intermediate" - what means in straight language: "talks like a kid" :lol: .

Thank you very much !:flowers:

eya 02-16-2021 05:57 PM

Prince Ernst August sues his son to win back control of Marienburg Castle

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...-german-castle

Moonmaiden23 02-16-2021 09:27 PM

:previous: Oh brother!:sad:

I will say that Marienbad is one of the most beautiful fairy tale castles I have ever seen in my life.:ohmy:

maria-olivia 02-17-2021 07:38 AM

The Plaintif seems in good health conditions . Accusations against his eldest Son until the end of his life.
His Father was not that generous for is own Mother...

REAL COUNTESS 02-17-2021 02:07 PM

Prince Ernst August don't give up . If he get the Castles back, I hope he has the funds for the up keep. He has waisted so much money on booze and women and lawyers to keep him out of jail. Maybe he needs a Guardianship, to keep him on the straight and narrow?. His shine and glory are long faded and a thing of the past. Instead of hanging around Courtrooms and slinging accusations against the HP, he should reflect and get to meet his four grandchildren and be there for his children, his two sons and his daughter, did he ever met her boyfriend? I am sorry to say this , but Prince E A is a Royal pain in the Royal Backside. Respect needs to be earned, it is not a given, because he is Royal.

victor1319 02-17-2021 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS (Post 2371736)
Instead of hanging around Courtrooms and slinging accusations against the HP, he should reflect and get to meet his four grandchildren and be there for his children, his two sons and his daughter, did he ever met her boyfriend?

Various news outlets had in their news today, that Senior feels "neglected" by Junior. This is part of the ongoing court case too, since Senior claims Junior is not thankful for the things in inherited beforehand - and "Grober Undank" or "gross ingratitude" is one of the reasons he demands everything back. In German Civil Law this is possible.

Interesting too, that there is a third party in the case: The "EAH BetreibungsgmbH", an outfit that is specialized in some kind of high class incasso and repo business. Their excecutive manager is Malte Berlin, the lawyer of Senior. It seems, like Senior has ceded/assigned a bigger part of his claims against Junior to this outfit.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellsc...-17201273.html


Senior probably owes them biggly!

REAL COUNTESS 02-17-2021 05:52 PM

Is there by chance any adult in the room? The poor thing feels neglected by his son, well what an ingrate,! ha maybe, EA Jr. should have him move in with his family and he can be taken care of, like one of his children? Yes getting old is not so funny for some, he feels totally left out, maybe he should sign up for some Volunteer work anybody can due something go to a children's Hospital and read to them, or to a foodbank, or deliver food to the needy, maybe that again is in his opinion work not up to par for a Prince? Wow first he gives it than he wants it back, because he claims, sein Sohn sei Undankbar und ein Gericht will sich so etwas anhoeren? Und dass in Deutschland?? unglaublich. And then this REPO CO.? I don't think he needs a Court of Law, he needs a Doctor a special one. Maybe he is depressed or something. I don't understand him anymore, I met him about 30 years ago he was Prince Charming, one could not imagen anyone nicer. Something sure went wrong somewhere along the line, sadly to say. Hope he stop with this Lawsuit nonsense and make up with his son and family.

rominet09 02-17-2021 06:51 PM

Beyond my comprehension, he is extremely rich, what would be the use of reganing this old castle ? Against his own son ! I can't understand.

Countessmeout 02-18-2021 12:26 AM

Honestly little has done in the last decade or so has made sense. :ermm:

Maybe he seems to think 'reclaim my castle and reclaim my power'. He may think his son has usurped his position, and the castle is a symbol of it. Who knows what he is thinking in all of this.

I feel so bad for his three children watching their dad and this decline.

Addapalla 02-18-2021 10:20 AM

Like all loutish narcissists with inflated and fragile egos, pugnacious EA always perceives himself as the victim in his battles. I hope he gets effective help someday so he can find some peace.

victor1319 02-18-2021 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rominet09 (Post 2371784)
Beyond my comprehension, he is extremely rich, what would be the use of reganing this old castle ? Against his own son ! I can't understand.

I do mean to understand the thingy with the castle - Ok, the castle is rather new, but a lot of prestige comes with it and with the King's of Hannover Crown in it.

If one sees royalty not as a mere business... - , a firm with land and farms and some old private property, then the act of giving away the castle might be the first step onto the way down into the ordinary.

rominet09 02-18-2021 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2371934)
I do mean to understand the thingy with the castle - Ok, the castle is rather new, but a lot of prestige comes with it and with the King's of Hannover Crown in it.

If one sees royalty not as a mere business... - , a firm with land and farms and some old private property, then the act of giving away the castle might be the first step onto the way down into the ordinary.

I have never thought of that and I think you are right.
I really thought that, at a certain age and with the wisdom that should come with age, you should consider these things secondary....

victor1319 02-18-2021 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rominet09 (Post 2371963)
I have never thought of that and I think you are right.
I really thought that, at a certain age and with the wisdom that should come with age, you should consider these things secondary....

Yep! But on the other hand: I mean, to imagine, that the Grimaldis for example were driven out of Genua towards Monaco, which they had to conquer, way back then in the middle ages, because they were sideing with one ancestor of Hannover Senior - This is history!!!

And now Junior gives the most important private property of the House of Hannover, the castle Marienburg, to the state for One €uro?

That is bitter for sure!

REAL COUNTESS 03-21-2021 04:01 PM

Just read in the Bunte Magazine, that Prince Ernst August Sr, can get up to three years in jail. I hope he is sober when he gets to court and eat a large spoon of humility he really needs it. I don't think he'll make it three years in jail. When I met him 30 years ago he was Prince charming, something went very wrong along the way, for him to reach this point.

Kataryn 03-21-2021 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS (Post 2383478)
Just read in the Bunte Magazine, that Prince Ernst August Sr, can get up to three years in jail. I hope he is sober when he gets to court and eat a large spoon of humility he really needs it. I don't think he'll make it three years in jail. When I met him 30 years ago he was Prince charming, something went very wrong along the way, for him to reach this point.


I think they'd prefer to ask for money. Keeping someone in jail cost money, court hearings cost the state money but giving someone a penalty payable in money gets the state money. So if you have someone who is loaded and not threatened with jail for more than 5 years, normally he is not given a jail term, especially as he is not really healthy. Not sure though if he had already been punished by court, then it's a different thing. They could forbid him to enter their country, that would really hurt I think, with the estates the former "Cumberlands" possess in Gmunden aud the rest of Austria.

Princess_Eleanor 03-21-2021 05:34 PM

The Austrian judicial system is not that harsh. I imagine 3 years is the maximum and it's rare that the maximum is given, really.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's easy, legally, to forbid him from entering the country. He's a legal resident I imagine, has all that property & is a German citizen. I don't really think there are legal grounds to forbid him from entering, though I would personally be in favor.

iceflower 03-23-2021 08:16 AM

Being accused of "resistance against the power of the state, grievous bodily harm, threat, intimidation and criminal damage" Prince Ernst August had a court date at the Regional Court Wels in Wels, Austria today, March 23:

"I take responsibility and am ready to pay for the damage. I cannot remember essential parts of what happened" he is quoted saying and he pleaded "not guilty".

Prince Ernst August also asked the judge not to have to take part in the further hearing, as he belonged to the risk group due to his cancer and was concerned about an corona virus infection.


** gettyimages gallery ** bild.de article ** bunte.de article **

rominet09 03-23-2021 08:35 AM

I hadn't seen him for a long time and I think he looks very ill.

Blog Real 03-23-2021 10:06 AM

Yes, he seems to be fragile and sick.

REAL COUNTESS 03-23-2021 12:34 PM

Well he cleaned himself up when he went to court. Not much seamed to have changed, he still blames others for lets call it, his short comings. At least he will pay for the damage he caused. Money don't fix everything. He lost weight and looks fragile. I really hope he get's the help he needs, he can't do it on his own and maybe not even wants to.

Princess_Eleanor 03-23-2021 03:07 PM

From ORF(Austrian Public Broadcaster)'s report:

Quote:


Ten months conditional detention for Ernst August

In Wels, Ernst August was on trial on Tuesday. He was accused of, among other things, injuring a police officer, threatening another officer and employees under the influence of alcohol and medication. He was sentenced to ten months of conditional detention and numerous directives.

He has to look for a different place of residence than at the Auerbach estate in Grünau, is no longer allowed to approach certain buildings belonging to the Cumberland Foundation there, or to contact the administrators of these buildings, to drink alcohol, and he has to undergo psychotherapy.

"Impossible, have lived there for 50 years"
The nobleman reacted angrily when he was instructed to find another place of residence: “Impossible,” he said, “I've lived there for 50 years.” His lawyers calmed him. The judge emphasized that the instructions should help the 67-year-old.

Ernst August was found guilty of the charges brought by the prosecutor's office in Wels, negligently putting himself in a state of incapacity with alcohol and medication and then in this condition, injuring a police officer, threatening another officer and employees. The Prince had pleaded not guilty. The lack of previous convictions was rated as mitigating, the fact that there were several victims, several crimes and criminal offenses during an ongoing investigation as aggravating. Neither the prosecution nor the defense made a statement.

Hanover pleaded not guilty, but the 67-year-old, who was accompanied by his two defense lawyers Malte Berlin and Otto Dietrich and several employees through a side entrance into the courtroom said: "I would like to apologize for everything to those involved, I regret what happened and am willing to pay for the damage. From my point of view, that says it all. "

He announced that he would make use of his right to refuse to testify. At the beginning of the hearing, the judge had stated that she would address him as Mr. Hanover because “there is a nobility annulment law in Austria”. Ernst August agreed to this, especially since he announced that, as a member of the risk group (Covid 19), he would leave the courtroom after the psychiatric report had been given, which was closed to the public.

https://ooe.orf.at/stories/3095767/

REAL COUNTESS 03-23-2021 03:27 PM

Well I hope he learned from this?? He is spoiled and set in his way's not easy to change. I don't think he will stop drinking, because he feels he has no problem. Hope Jr won't take him in. He sees him as what he is his father who is in need of help. I am just stunned as to what happen to him. The glitz and charm are a thing of the passed, sad.

Moonmaiden23 03-23-2021 03:41 PM

:previous: Chronic alcoholism is the Great Uglifier. And that's just what it does to ones' physical appearance.

What it does to the inside is even worse.:sad:

victor1319 03-23-2021 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS (Post 2384242)
Well I hope he learned from this?? He is spoiled and set in his way's not easy to change. I don't think he will stop drinking, because he feels he has no problem. Hope Jr won't take him in. He sees him as what he is his father who is in need of help...

Well, part of his (senior) defense strategy was, to blame Junior, who, he said, has advised his housekeepers to support him with booze. And that Junior, doing this, knew all too well, that Senior would then get a fit.
https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...ehandlung.html

Sounds like there are are harsh struggles between Senior and Junior.

victor1319 03-27-2021 04:25 AM

Appeal to the Court
 
The case against Prince Ernst August von Hannover is going into another round:

Ernst August was sentenced to 10 month probation and denied the right to live at his Estate in Grünau in Austria for three years.

Against this verdict his lawyers have lodged an appeal to the court. Especially, they claim, the denying of the right to live on one's own ground is unheard of and void.

It might take months until the judicial apparatus goes into action again. Until then Ernst August can live in Grünau, since he is not formally sentenced.
https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...ufung-ein.html

REAL COUNTESS 03-27-2021 01:10 PM

Not being allowed to live on his property, he lived for half a century, for a term of 3 years I feel is not ideal. There must be more to the story, not just what we know. This should be a learning period for him, I hope he sees it that way and settle down.

Moonmaiden23 03-27-2021 02:10 PM

Not allowed to live on his own property?? That does sound outrageous. I hope his lawyers will appeal.:ohmy:

JR76 03-27-2021 02:18 PM

I suspect that it's not living on the property itself that was prohibited but him living in Austria.

royal_sophietje 03-27-2021 02:47 PM

And it is not like he hasn't any properties in Germany...

REAL COUNTESS 03-27-2021 02:52 PM

No Country can or should be allowed to tell a Citizen where he /she should be allowed to live. At least not in a Democracy. He did not commit a crime against Austria. He destroyed property and let his bad temper get away from him. He insulted Police and blamed it on his family and others. He needs to get a grip on himself and ask for help, but I believe his arrogance won't allow it.

Somebody 03-27-2021 03:09 PM

As far as I am aware Ernst August is not an Austrian citizen... I assume he is a German (and probably British?) citizen.

Denville 03-27-2021 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2385425)
As far as I am aware Ernst August is not an Austrian citizen... I assume he is a German (and probably British?) citizen.

Presumably he can be barred from Austria....

Princess_Eleanor 03-27-2021 04:32 PM

As has been said, Ernst August is not a citizen of Austria. He was a resident but has now been told to seek residency elsewhere (Germany, where he is a citizen comes to mind...). I say good! Since he can't behave appropriately, we don't need him here. He is very arrogant - thinks that because he owns property, he must be permitted residency in Austria. No, he must not.

Ernst August should be happy that Austria's judicial system is so lenient. There are plenty of countries where he would have gone to jail for physically assaulting a police officer!

Now I hope he will attend the psychotherapy that has also been mandated by the judge, and practice some self reflection for a change.

rominet09 03-27-2021 06:29 PM

At a certain age, it is impossible to change especially if you have had a life of self-indulgence facilitated by your money.

Lady Daly 03-28-2021 12:45 AM

Is it possible Ernst August has become such a menace to society the society he lives in wants him out? In other words, go cause trouble somewhere else. An interesting case to follow.

victor1319 03-28-2021 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor (Post 2385441)
As has been said, Ernst August is not a citizen of Austria. He was a resident but has now been told to seek residency elsewhere (Germany, where he is a citizen comes to mind...). I say good!

He was explicitly told by the court not to live on his property in Grünau/Austria for three years. He was not kicked out of Austria the country. This would be impossible, anyway, since he is an EU-citizen (Germany).

Btw he is still honorary citizen of the community of Grünau in Austria, where he is denied the right of settlement now by the court. And the mayor of Grünau insisted, it will stay that way. The folks seem to like him there...

Princess_Eleanor 03-28-2021 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2385575)
He was explicitly told by the court not to live on his property in Grünau/Austria for three years. He was not kicked out of Austria the country. This would be impossible, anyway, since he is an EU-citizen (Germany).

Btw he is still honorary citizen of the community of Grünau in Austria, where he is denied the right of settlement now by the court. And the mayor of Grünau insisted, it will stay that way. The folks seem to like him there...


I didn't actually expect for him to be kicked out precisely because he is an EU citizen, but I do think there are circumstances under which an EU citizen can be denied residency in another EU country. I thought that had now happened. If it is precisely this property, I am not sure it will hold. We will see...

The mayor may like him but it's my impression that most Austrians think of him as a joke. :whistling: Though I think it's actually very serious - violence & threats...

victor1319 03-28-2021 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor (Post 2385585)
The mayor may like him but it's my impression that most Austrians think of him as a joke. :whistling: Though I think it's actually very serious - violence & threats...

Yep, you are right! One cannot roam around armed with a baseball bat, making threats to folks and police. He is/was a loose cannon! (Albeit he claimed, he was drugged up with booze and meds by his housekeepers on the orders of his son... - see post 472 with source -)

berry 03-29-2021 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somebody (Post 2385425)
As far as I am aware Ernst August is not an Austrian citizen... I assume he is a German (and probably British?) citizen.

He is Austrian, German and British citizen.


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