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Requirements (§ 3 UbG) A person may only be accommodated in a psychiatric ward if three requirements are met at the same time: • The person is mentally ill, • there is a risk to the life or health of the sick person or other persons, • and sufficient other treatment and care options are missing. In the US there are several ways to go about this. An initial involuntary hold is served by law enforcement, the person is brought into a psychiatric lockdown unit where they are evaluated by psychiatry within a 72hr involuntary hold time period. The person is either discharged thereafter or if they meet the above criteria then a legal hold for a much longer period of time eg 14 days, 30 days etc. requiring further civil court orders unless they have committed a crime. That would be a game changer. I really don't know much about Prince Ernst August other than the forums. If he were hospitalized he could also be medically evaluated for things like end stage liver disease, organic brain disorders, and receive proper treatment. Amazing what good medical care can accomplish. It seems to me the family could appeal through the courts via a physician statement and attorney to put the wheels in motion. |
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Yep, these are the requirements! In Germany we have some "jokes" about "The Gods in black and white" - Judges and medical Doctors. But for poor Ernst August this might be no joke anymore soon enough. And to get treated and incarcerated against one's will is surely a terrifying shock! I was asked above not to say Ernst August is "crazy" but rather to choose the wording "mental health issues". Well, Ernst August is for sure crazy, but that does not mean that he is necessarily rippled by mental health issues - maybe he is just lonely, excentric and his body is sick, but not his mind... Let's hope for the best! |
Princess Eugenia ,daughter of Prince Heinrich and niece of Ernst August make her first steps in the world of fashion
https://www.hola.com/realeza/2020080...incesa-modelo/ |
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She has stunning eyes. :flowers:
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Well, her mother was very pretty in her youth too...and still is. ;)
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"On Monday, 7 September, several police officers surrounded the hunting lodge of Prince Ernst August in Grünau in the Almtal in Austria. The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion, reports the Austrian "Kronen Zeitung". The 66-year-old was therefore provisionally arrested."
https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html |
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It's clear the Prince is suffering from severe mental health issues. I hope his family are able to get the medical help he needs. |
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AGAIN??? Oh dear... :sad: |
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I doubt if he's going to improve much. He has easy access to mental and physical health care but my impression is that he doesn't want to avail of it, and isn't likely to take any better care of himself.
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I feel so sorry for him and his family... He seems to be profoundly depressed, as if he had no reasons to live anymore and, yet, he has so many... :sad: |
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Even if the legal criteria are actually there it can be very hard to get someone sectioned, even if you are beginning the police and health professionals for help. And even then it's hard to hold them for long. Especially if they have money.
His family has enough money for the best private rehabs/mental health clinics in the world to send specialist teams to try and persuade him he needs help and maybe they have. Maybe he has even attended some of them. But unless you're willing to admit you need have a problem and need help and work on yourself and your recovery with the support of professionals and and/or a support group nothing is going to work however many people try to be there for him or how many incidents he has. |
It is difficult to understand that a person can be so ill they are unable to process reality or think like a normal person. This can be psychiatric or physical or in the princes case most likely a combination. If someone has cancer you don't wait until they are terminal to start treatment. Same with the Prince yet he is not cognitively capable of determining he needs care. It also appears he is a danger to others: "The Prince of Hanover is accused of dangerous threats as well as property damage and coercion... The 66-year-old is said to have asked the (caretaking) couple to run away. Otherwise he would send a gang of thugs on their necks. In addition, the prince is said to have torn out a traffic sign and smashed a window on an object belonging to the Duke of Cumberland Foundation."
https://www.rtl.de/cms/prinz-ernst-a...n-4609727.html I know it is very different from country to country as to the process of committing a person who is a danger to himself or a danger to others. At some point law enforcement and the courts take precedent but as pointed out he has money and status which I agree makes it more difficult to commit him for care no matter the jurisdiction. |
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Hmm....what constitutes a "provisional arrest"?:cool::sad: |
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Such an arrest is allowed aong other things (see above), if the perp was caught "red-handed", if the perp is fleeing or about to flee, might disguise the evil doing or is accused of something, that might lead to more than six months incarceration. That in itself is probably here not the problem! The Prince will have good lawyers and get bailed. But what, if the force him to see a shrink, while still in jail? :ermm::eek: |
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Well, if he gets a "fit" and starts to threaten the police officers again, he might be faster under psychological observation/evaluation, than one thinks! And from there it is just a small step into the psychiatric ward... His family should have gotten him under control long ago! I mean, what we knw, we know almost exclusively out of the media - and what do they know anyway? But there was no interview of his sons, brother, wifes, whatever, that showed, his family has at least tried... It is a cold world, the high nobility... |
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I can't imagine how his his sons giving an interview about how they've tried to help him would improve the situation. They'd be accused of airing private issues in public and trying to get attention using their ill father. And if Caroline said anything....international headlines! And it's doubtful Ernst August would listen anyway. Probably start a family media war "he said, they said" and cause more chaos with paparazzi following him all the time. They could have begged him to get help and be fearing that this time he won't make it. Or they could just have completely washed their hands of the situation and ignore him. We just don't know. |
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Oh, we know a lot about them and they did not hesitate to inform us about their monies, their struggles about who inherits what and when... We know really a lot about their material state of life! We even know that much, that we can answer the question "Cui bono" if the old Prince gets declared unfit...:ermm: |
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None of which means his family have to give interviews about his health or erratic behaviour. |
Ernst August was set free under certain conditions. His license to keep weapons (he is a hunter) was revoked. I am shocked that with everything that has happened, he was allowed to keep weapons in the house. In Germany, if you have a license and you are caught drunk, on foot or bike or in a car, and they find out you have a license you have to give up license immediately even though the weapons were not involved in any incident.
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...2-b4d7abc56abd |
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https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...2-b4d7abc56abd So the prince has been released with a "provisional" gun ban in place and "instructed to stay in a certain place, not to make contact with the alleged victims and to stay away from the alleged crime scene". So no hospital for Prince Ernst August, he was sent to Wels prison this time. Since being released no ones talking. "The House of Hanover did not want to comment. Even the law firm of the Guelph Prince did not want to comment on the content of the matter." I hate to think what the princes next unilateral move might be. Law enforcement does seem to be giving him a lot of chances to behave. However, does it also seem like this might be his last chance. "According to the public prosecutor's office, the great-grandson of the last German Emperor Wilhelm II could face up to three years imprisonment in the event of a final conviction. Until then, the presumption of innocence applies" I have no idea what Austrian prisons are like, but now might be the time for a voluntary hospitalization. What a mess. I wonder how much the family is involved, if any at this point. It truly is a sad situation. |
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Which doesn't mean he would necessarily be a pleasant person if he weren't ill. He was considered quite good company and charming in his younger days but it seems his father and brothers have/had "strong" personalities in one way or another - a dysfunctional family in many ways. His sisters seem more balanced. |
Prince Ernst August V has been very nice when he was Pss Caroline's husband,what ever went wrong turned him into a horror.On top of that he is a LUSH. The last few episodes maybe a cry for help, I hope he'll get it. He has a super big ego and feels he is entitled to what ever he can get,with no penalty. If I would be in his family, I would not want to give any comments either. He should pull himself up and be what he is a GRANDFATHER and spend time with the little ones. Maybe he should also feed himself a spoon full of Humility,he needs it.
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I think all this is very unlikely ot happen, It would probably be a good thing if he did end up In court and possibly he would be made to have treatment
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Not giving a public interview about their father's mental illness/addiction is being cold?? No its called keeping private things private. Revealing private medical information about their father doesn't benefit anyone including him. Families can do everything they can to help a person but if they refuse to get help sometimes they hit a wall in trying to help. Royals (former royals) are not immune to that issue. Money doesn't buy you good health or less struggles. It simply means that if you are willing to get the help needed, you have more resources to be able to do so. I do hope he goes to trial over this. Maybe the courts can force him to get the help his family has been unable to get him to go to. |
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Ernst August jr. gave a long interview in the "HAZ", Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung, this year end of January about the financial situation of the House: Why he sold the Marienburg castle and what happend to the 44 million Euro from the 2005 art sale. I can't find it online, but the interview is mentioned here: https://www.express.de/news/promi-un...rkauf-31972968 And he gave long interviews, before his plans for the Marienburg castle failed, in which he explicitly talked about the financial situation: https://www.haz.de/Hannover/Aus-der-...-HAZ-Interview There was this docu with the brother of EA sr., Prince Heinrich, about the nazi roots of large parts of their fortune (just a snippet linked): https://www.ndr.de/geschichte/chrono...n,adel234.html and so on... |
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I don't know how anyone can compare the selling of an estate to discussing the struggle with mental health of one's father. One is public information, one for very good reason, is private and not public business at all. Nor is acknowledging a darker side of family history remotely the same thing. Again history and something documented. They aren't leaking family secrets in tell all books or interviews. |
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And this legal question leads to the "cui bono" thingy: Who benefits most, if Senior ends up locked up and declared unfit to do business? And since to world is full of suspicious minds like mine, at least Junior would be well advised, to wash his hands in innnocence - publically. Or to ride in and to help his father, what would be even better! |
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He already handed over control of a good chunk of the family estate to his sons to manage years ago. No one benefits from him being declared unfit. There is no evidence to believe that his sons are heartless and ruthless, and would be happy to snap up his fortune from him (what is left that he controls still). To be quite honest the fact you think his sons should air his dirty laundry, and talk about his mental illness to the public and 'oh how we are helping him' is sad at best. I'd find that more cold and aloof then anything. Public humiliation of your father serves no purpose either. Innocence? Maybe we should leave conspiracy theories of his sons gaslighting him off the board? And stick to known fact. |
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I don't want to transform just another part of The Royal Forums into a kind of another "sussex thread"... BTW Is it just me, or has The Royal Forums gotten a more dark note lately? Sussex, Waringo, Guelphs and so on - where are the good news? |
No news about Prince E A of Hanover senior, seems to be good news. I hope he got help and get back to his charming self again.
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It is getting hot...
So, two weeks ago Prince Ernst August was indicted by an Austrian attorney of state: The Prince is, if convicted, faceing up to three years imprisonment for hurting folks and threatening them under influence in four cases.
The court wants him to see a medical expert witness(?).[1] His defence: His housekeepers supplyed him with alcohol, albeit they knew, that he was sick. The fun part: These housekeepers were his first victims - so, he says, it was their fault.[2] Sources (sorry, in German only): [1] https://www.merkur.de/boulevard/erns...-90155870.html [2] https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...h-alkohol.html |
Houkeepers are paid to comply with their boss orders, I can't believe his defence argue that as an excuse. Sorry for my poor English !
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If they hadn't bought him alcohol then he probably would have become abusive about that. If this is true then he really has no excuses. Blaming the victims because they gave him booze, blaming them for bringing him booze or being drunk doesn't excuse is alleged actions.
He really isn't a well man in any sense of the word it seems but until he makes an effort to get help and change nothing anyone does for him will work. |
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And, rominet, your English is surely better than mine. I am certified as "upper intermediate" - what means in straight language: "talks like a kid" :lol: . |
It is so much easier to blame someone else for ones short comings and hope the next person is dumb enough to believe it. Prince EA lost his sparkle long ago. If blaming the housekeeper don't work, he can always say, The Devil made me do it. I just wish he would have paid more attention to his son's and his four grandchildren, they may never met him. Again that is of his own doing. He is a spoiled over the hill old man, with lots of lost charm and he is used to getting it his way. I hope he will be sent to a Hospital, because jail he will never survive.
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Thank you for all the info and comments on the Prince. |
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Heck even his stepchildren have been effected by his choices. I remember Pierre spending the night int he hospital in Peru with his stepfather so that Christian didn't have to leave his wedding. Any judge worth his salt should throw out the argument without blinking. You can't blame a servant for following the orders of their boss. Unless asked to do something criminal, then yes they have the right to refuse. They would have faced being fired, and subjected to more abuse, for refusing the man. They are not to blame for his dangerous behavior or actions after he drank. One can only hope for a hospital at this point. And longer stay then the last. |
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Prince Ernst August sues his son to win back control of Marienburg Castle
https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...-german-castle |
:previous: Oh brother!:sad:
I will say that Marienbad is one of the most beautiful fairy tale castles I have ever seen in my life.:ohmy: |
The Plaintif seems in good health conditions . Accusations against his eldest Son until the end of his life.
His Father was not that generous for is own Mother... |
Prince Ernst August don't give up . If he get the Castles back, I hope he has the funds for the up keep. He has waisted so much money on booze and women and lawyers to keep him out of jail. Maybe he needs a Guardianship, to keep him on the straight and narrow?. His shine and glory are long faded and a thing of the past. Instead of hanging around Courtrooms and slinging accusations against the HP, he should reflect and get to meet his four grandchildren and be there for his children, his two sons and his daughter, did he ever met her boyfriend? I am sorry to say this , but Prince E A is a Royal pain in the Royal Backside. Respect needs to be earned, it is not a given, because he is Royal.
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Interesting too, that there is a third party in the case: The "EAH BetreibungsgmbH", an outfit that is specialized in some kind of high class incasso and repo business. Their excecutive manager is Malte Berlin, the lawyer of Senior. It seems, like Senior has ceded/assigned a bigger part of his claims against Junior to this outfit. https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellsc...-17201273.html Senior probably owes them biggly! |
Is there by chance any adult in the room? The poor thing feels neglected by his son, well what an ingrate,! ha maybe, EA Jr. should have him move in with his family and he can be taken care of, like one of his children? Yes getting old is not so funny for some, he feels totally left out, maybe he should sign up for some Volunteer work anybody can due something go to a children's Hospital and read to them, or to a foodbank, or deliver food to the needy, maybe that again is in his opinion work not up to par for a Prince? Wow first he gives it than he wants it back, because he claims, sein Sohn sei Undankbar und ein Gericht will sich so etwas anhoeren? Und dass in Deutschland?? unglaublich. And then this REPO CO.? I don't think he needs a Court of Law, he needs a Doctor a special one. Maybe he is depressed or something. I don't understand him anymore, I met him about 30 years ago he was Prince Charming, one could not imagen anyone nicer. Something sure went wrong somewhere along the line, sadly to say. Hope he stop with this Lawsuit nonsense and make up with his son and family.
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Beyond my comprehension, he is extremely rich, what would be the use of reganing this old castle ? Against his own son ! I can't understand.
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Honestly little has done in the last decade or so has made sense. :ermm:
Maybe he seems to think 'reclaim my castle and reclaim my power'. He may think his son has usurped his position, and the castle is a symbol of it. Who knows what he is thinking in all of this. I feel so bad for his three children watching their dad and this decline. |
Like all loutish narcissists with inflated and fragile egos, pugnacious EA always perceives himself as the victim in his battles. I hope he gets effective help someday so he can find some peace.
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If one sees royalty not as a mere business... - , a firm with land and farms and some old private property, then the act of giving away the castle might be the first step onto the way down into the ordinary. |
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I really thought that, at a certain age and with the wisdom that should come with age, you should consider these things secondary.... |
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And now Junior gives the most important private property of the House of Hannover, the castle Marienburg, to the state for One €uro? That is bitter for sure! |
Just read in the Bunte Magazine, that Prince Ernst August Sr, can get up to three years in jail. I hope he is sober when he gets to court and eat a large spoon of humility he really needs it. I don't think he'll make it three years in jail. When I met him 30 years ago he was Prince charming, something went very wrong along the way, for him to reach this point.
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I think they'd prefer to ask for money. Keeping someone in jail cost money, court hearings cost the state money but giving someone a penalty payable in money gets the state money. So if you have someone who is loaded and not threatened with jail for more than 5 years, normally he is not given a jail term, especially as he is not really healthy. Not sure though if he had already been punished by court, then it's a different thing. They could forbid him to enter their country, that would really hurt I think, with the estates the former "Cumberlands" possess in Gmunden aud the rest of Austria. |
The Austrian judicial system is not that harsh. I imagine 3 years is the maximum and it's rare that the maximum is given, really.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's easy, legally, to forbid him from entering the country. He's a legal resident I imagine, has all that property & is a German citizen. I don't really think there are legal grounds to forbid him from entering, though I would personally be in favor. |
Being accused of "resistance against the power of the state, grievous bodily harm, threat, intimidation and criminal damage" Prince Ernst August had a court date at the Regional Court Wels in Wels, Austria today, March 23:
"I take responsibility and am ready to pay for the damage. I cannot remember essential parts of what happened" he is quoted saying and he pleaded "not guilty". Prince Ernst August also asked the judge not to have to take part in the further hearing, as he belonged to the risk group due to his cancer and was concerned about an corona virus infection. ** gettyimages gallery ** bild.de article ** bunte.de article ** |
I hadn't seen him for a long time and I think he looks very ill.
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Yes, he seems to be fragile and sick.
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Well he cleaned himself up when he went to court. Not much seamed to have changed, he still blames others for lets call it, his short comings. At least he will pay for the damage he caused. Money don't fix everything. He lost weight and looks fragile. I really hope he get's the help he needs, he can't do it on his own and maybe not even wants to.
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From ORF(Austrian Public Broadcaster)'s report:
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Well I hope he learned from this?? He is spoiled and set in his way's not easy to change. I don't think he will stop drinking, because he feels he has no problem. Hope Jr won't take him in. He sees him as what he is his father who is in need of help. I am just stunned as to what happen to him. The glitz and charm are a thing of the passed, sad.
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:previous: Chronic alcoholism is the Great Uglifier. And that's just what it does to ones' physical appearance.
What it does to the inside is even worse.:sad: |
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https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...ehandlung.html Sounds like there are are harsh struggles between Senior and Junior. |
Appeal to the Court
The case against Prince Ernst August von Hannover is going into another round:
Ernst August was sentenced to 10 month probation and denied the right to live at his Estate in Grünau in Austria for three years. Against this verdict his lawyers have lodged an appeal to the court. Especially, they claim, the denying of the right to live on one's own ground is unheard of and void. It might take months until the judicial apparatus goes into action again. Until then Ernst August can live in Grünau, since he is not formally sentenced. https://www.bunte.de/royals/royals-w...ufung-ein.html |
Not being allowed to live on his property, he lived for half a century, for a term of 3 years I feel is not ideal. There must be more to the story, not just what we know. This should be a learning period for him, I hope he sees it that way and settle down.
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Not allowed to live on his own property?? That does sound outrageous. I hope his lawyers will appeal.:ohmy:
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I suspect that it's not living on the property itself that was prohibited but him living in Austria.
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And it is not like he hasn't any properties in Germany...
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No Country can or should be allowed to tell a Citizen where he /she should be allowed to live. At least not in a Democracy. He did not commit a crime against Austria. He destroyed property and let his bad temper get away from him. He insulted Police and blamed it on his family and others. He needs to get a grip on himself and ask for help, but I believe his arrogance won't allow it.
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As far as I am aware Ernst August is not an Austrian citizen... I assume he is a German (and probably British?) citizen.
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As has been said, Ernst August is not a citizen of Austria. He was a resident but has now been told to seek residency elsewhere (Germany, where he is a citizen comes to mind...). I say good! Since he can't behave appropriately, we don't need him here. He is very arrogant - thinks that because he owns property, he must be permitted residency in Austria. No, he must not.
Ernst August should be happy that Austria's judicial system is so lenient. There are plenty of countries where he would have gone to jail for physically assaulting a police officer! Now I hope he will attend the psychotherapy that has also been mandated by the judge, and practice some self reflection for a change. |
At a certain age, it is impossible to change especially if you have had a life of self-indulgence facilitated by your money.
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Is it possible Ernst August has become such a menace to society the society he lives in wants him out? In other words, go cause trouble somewhere else. An interesting case to follow.
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Btw he is still honorary citizen of the community of Grünau in Austria, where he is denied the right of settlement now by the court. And the mayor of Grünau insisted, it will stay that way. The folks seem to like him there... |
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I didn't actually expect for him to be kicked out precisely because he is an EU citizen, but I do think there are circumstances under which an EU citizen can be denied residency in another EU country. I thought that had now happened. If it is precisely this property, I am not sure it will hold. We will see... The mayor may like him but it's my impression that most Austrians think of him as a joke. :whistling: Though I think it's actually very serious - violence & threats... |
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