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-   -   Daniel's Future: Discussion (his role, title, orders, pressure etc.) (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f120/daniels-future-discussion-his-role-title-orders-pressure-etc-16127.html)

Yennie 10-02-2003 04:59 PM

Daniel's Future: Discussion (his role, title, orders, pressure etc.)
 
I think he´s a really nice guy´and Victoria seems very happy with him..
But I wonder if he will be able to handle living in the spotlight... I meen, Victoria is used to it but for a "normal" guy it must be very strange and uncomfortable.

hrhcp 10-06-2003 01:40 PM

Victoria & Daniel; Public Pressure
 
Is Victoria used to living in the spotlight? I doubt it.

I wonder what concessions she got from two events of her's in the past?
1.) she had anoxeria - was that a media thing that caused that?
2.) She was absent from Sweden for a few years a couple of years back? I read that as a privacy move.

In one way, Victoria has the whole organ of state to shield her. Poor D is all on his own, until he pops the question.

All this media glare would naturally not be an issue if all the readers of (for instance this) MB's would have NO interest what-so-ever in things royal !!!! Makes me wonder if there were royalty hounds before modern times ???


:innocent:

Lena 10-06-2003 02:41 PM

Yes, we from LTR are guilty that she became anorexic and that she had to move to the USA...and now let´s hide in a deep burrow and/ or pray for forgiveness :P
Seriously I don´t think that it was just the media which caused her eating disorder (although I´ve to admit that headlines like "Why are so fat, Victoria" are more than insulting), there are more reasons than just that.
I think gossip has been an issue in all times...in many epochs the kingdoms/dukedoms were far more little than today...so the exchange of informations/gossip about your monarch worked just through mouth-to-ear-to-mouth-dissemination...I think one reason why people are talking about higher-ranked people is, that it makes the gap between them and themselves less huge...it shows them that they are normal people like them. Another reason could be that gossip distracts from your own "meager reality" ;) ....but yes through internet, through the high editions of tabloids, through modern camera-technique the problem has got new dimensions.
And yes, poor Daniel needs some help...but then it has to be sure, that they marry :wacko:

Yennie 10-06-2003 06:30 PM

Quote:

Is Victoria used to it? I doubt it
ofcourse she is! She has lived with the media attention all her life. I´m not saying she enjoys it or anything but I´m sure she can handle it way better that Daniel, who is new to all this.

btw, cute pictures! Thanks for posting Josefine. And you´re right Lena, Victoria and Daniel looks more "close" than ever before

Alexandria 10-06-2003 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lena@Oct 6th, 2003 - 1:41 pm
Seriously I don´t think that it was just the media which caused her eating disorder (although I´ve to admit that headlines like "Why are so fat, Victoria" are more than insulting), there are more reasons than just that.
I don't mean to be opening a hornet's nest, but having watched a good friend suffer through anorexia for the past 10 years and now watching her finally get the treatment she needs, I can tell you with experience that anorexia isn't about physically being fat and overweight and unhappy with your physical appearance. Anorexia is about a control factor - if you can't control other aspects of your life, whether it be family life, work life, emotions, etc. - you "resort" to controlling what you physically consume (food). Of course, there are other psychological issues involved, such as feeling like your life is spinning out of control and other factors.

And I don't doubt that repeatedly having to read newspapers or magazines or watching television shows that call you fat, or seeing pictures of yourselves where the angle isn't right or unfairly adds a shadow to your figure that really isn't there, can definitely cause suffering to your self-esteem, anorexia isn't a problem physically, it's a problem psychologically. Not eating is merely the manifestation or a means of controlling whatever else you may not be able to control.

hrhcp 10-06-2003 09:04 PM

Quote:

Yennie  Posted: Oct 6th, 2003 - 5:30 pm

Quote:


Is Victoria used to it? I doubt it

ofcourse she is! She has lived with the media attention all her life. I´m not saying she enjoys it or anything but I´m sure she can handle it way better that Daniel, who is new to all this.

I dispute your point of view, Yennie .. from the point of view, that if I were to put myself in 'her' (or her brother's) place .... I don't think I would ever enjoy parading through life with the knowledge that some unrequested camera is catching glimpses of me unawares. But then, again, maybe we are 'seeing' her habit from two points of view ?????

Alexandria 10-06-2003 09:20 PM

Victoria might be "used to" the constant presence of cameras and reporters, but has she been able to accept their incessant presence in her life? I think not. I don't think anyone could ever be immune to that kind of and that much unwanted and unsolicited attention and scrutiny.

I absolutely feel for Daniel who has never known this level of constant scrutiny over every little aspect of your life. I think what Yennie means when she says that Victoria is probably used to it because she's lived with it all her life, to me, simply means that she's had more time to deal with it. She's grown up with cameras following her every move and so part of her growing pains have included adapting to cameras as an undeniable part of her life whether she likes it or not. But here is poor Daniel who has been thrust into the limelight, sink or swim!

Yennie 10-07-2003 06:39 AM

Quote:

But then, again, maybe we are 'seeing' her habit from two points of view ?????
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I dont think she enjoys the media attention, or love it or anything like that.
But she is used to it, like "lived with the mediaattention ell her life and know how it works". She isnt new with all this like Daniel and knows better than Daniel, from expreience, how to handle it.
But I´m sure they both hate it when the paparazzis sneak(sp?) up on them!

Victoria said herself in the Tv 3 "paparazzidocumentary" that "its ok if someone takes a picture, as long as they are asking first".

hrhcp 10-26-2003 03:40 PM

Victoria & Daniel; Public Pressure
 
Quote:

Yennie  Posted: Oct 26th, 2003 - 12:22 pm

The article says that Daniel is sick of the attention and that he is feeling bad and sad about the whole thing. Now he and Victoria have left the country to be able to "get away" for awhile.

Thanks Yennie, for the thumbnail summary.

... I would feel cranky too .... (getting to learn) living in a fishbowl ......

Quote:

Josefine  Posted: Oct 26th, 2003 - 1:15 pm

Do you think this is the end of their Relationship?

I hope you're not kidding me. imo they're a pair.

hrhcp 10-26-2003 03:47 PM

Quote:

Lena  Posted: Oct 26th, 2003 - 1:17 pm

...so maybe they don´t make a relationship-repair-journey, but an engagement-journey and Daniel kneels down at the beach and asks Victoria to become his wife

I am inclined to think that Victoria is a tower of strength. And she knows that a man of the people is (will be) more in tune with the common touch, because if this wasn't so, she'd be running after some educated dude. Strange considering .....

Besides .... its always (been) like that, the women of every species makes the decision who their mate will be. Poor Daniel ......or lucky Daniel .... ?

Lena 10-26-2003 10:17 PM

Yes, it doesn´t seem that easy for Victoria. Additionally she´s also such a nice down to earth person, which makes it probably not easier to find a guy, who doesn´t take advantage of her, and is as down to earth like her, but doesn´t fear the limelight. I guess princess Madeleine´s boyfriends would have less problems to cope with the situation, because she searches for more self-confident persons and which are out of her class. Even though Victoria became more self-confident in recent years and is happier with her role, I still notice indications, that she just wants to live a "normal" life, and it´s the same with Daniel (who lived of course always a normal life).
But there are 3 reigning Queens in Europe, which found prince consorts. Maybe a little bit opinionated husbands (prince Henrik and Philip)...the only thing which IMO didn´t work was-in spite of their deep love- the relationship between Queen Beatrix and prince Claus. He had always problems with his situation. I hope Daniel W. isn´t a second Claus....then it would be better, that they break up!
Talking about a third Daniel...the first which comes to my mind is Daniel Nyhlen, Aftonbladet-reporter ;) ...the problem with the press would disappear and I´ve watched a documentary on Victoria, in which she rebuked Daniel-which stand in a pack of journalists-quite harsh with the words "Daniel, be quiet!"...so she could at least have an obedient husband ;)

Fireweaver 10-26-2003 10:20 PM

which daniel did she rebuke? 1, 2, or the reporter?

Lena 10-26-2003 10:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The reporter! Just imagine Daniel Westling would have to hear such words/phrases out of the mouth of his girlfriend every day ;) (Then in Daniel´s place I wouldn´t bother about the press, but about my girlfriend)

I´ve found a picture of the reporter. In this picture he looks very nice (honestly there are more pics of him, where he looks slimy...but I took this picture, because I have to "sell" him as prince consort for you ;) )

Daniel III?

Fireweaver 10-26-2003 10:36 PM

he's rather attractive. A good choice for Daniel III :)

moosey60 10-26-2003 10:40 PM

LOL. Daniel III, followed by a whole string of Daniels until she arrives at Danny boy XVI to match her father's XVI title. LMAO. Oh that's rich...hahaha, wow, does she really love the name Daniel or is it just a coincidence? I guess we'll know if she has another boyfriend by the name of Daniel. However, I don't want her to break up with Danny II, she really likes him...:(

moosey60 10-26-2003 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by King Christian@Oct 26th, 2003 - 9:09 pm
Quote:

moosey60*  Posted: Oct 26th, 2003 - 8:36 pm

The article basically says:

Moosey, can you fill me in how you effected the translation
- is there swedish flowing in your veins ?

Ummmm...I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you suggesting that it was a bad translation? Well, I don't think it was too horrible considering it's been 4 years since I've lived in Sweden. I lived in Sweden when I was 8-11...yep, super great. Sweden is a great place to live- especially if you live in Stockholm or another big city with lots of friendly Swedish folk. Super great fun-fun. Nope, I'm not Swedish. I just know how to read and speak Swedish fluently-ish but I am forgetting...I'm gettin' old...:( Wow...

Lena 10-26-2003 11:01 PM

@moosey
I think k. Christian was rather suprised, because he hasn´t thought that you can swedish. But maybe he should answer that. IMO it is a great translation!

According to "namnarkivet" there are currently 76369 Daniel´s who live in Sweden. And of course there are millions of Daniels in the world (Daniel Radcliffe, Danny de vito, Daniel Johns...and of course Jack Daniel´s :P ;) ) Finding a "new" Daniel wouldn´t be that difficult.

Lena 04-15-2004 06:57 PM

An article, published in the german newspaper "Hamburger Abendblatt", which I have translated (well I´ve tried it wink.gif ) ...so far nothing new, but another "style of writing"...


Princess Victoria´s embarrassing love

Indignation in Sweden. Is it allowed, that a successor to the throne makes advertisment for her boyfriend?

of Ingrid Raagaard

Stockholm-When crown princess Victoria (26) felt in love with the gym trainer Daniel Westling (30) 2 years ago, the Swedes were happy. After all the successor to the throne was through her seriousness and eating disorders the "problem child" of the nation, and it was nice to see her really happy. But the longer the crown princess was together with the silent sportsman, the more the Swedes sneered at him.

Since that time the newspapers hardly report good things about the boyfriend of the crown princess. Far from it! It´s claimed, that he´s as thick as two short planks, and so uneducated, that he never reads books. He even can´t speak english, and on the whole you can´t converse with him. But it´s said, that he takes advantage of the relationship to the princess, so that he makes a good stroke of business with his gyms. In short he´s so embarrassing, that the swedish Royal couple would never ever accept him as son-in-law.


This all was in the past few weeks to read in the swedish newspapers... and because there never a statement of Daniel comes, even not a denial, the Swedes (sooner or later) don´t know, what they should think (about this/him). Fact is, Victoria is every free minute together with him. Even at this weekend she dated the young businessman, though the swedish newspapers reported about a new "scandal". So Daniel quasi has deployed the crown princess as "hostess", when he presented his newest gym and hired new customers, in the line of a dinner.

When Victoria was caught together with Daniel of the reporters, the princess was filled with indignation and denied. "I was there as customer that evening. I didn´t
act as hostess." Daniel kept silent-as always.
Others are more open. Even several people, which were at the aforesaid evening invited of Daniel Westling, did confirm towards the newspaper "Expressen", that Victoria acted as hostess. "She welcomed every single guest". According to that the future head of state makes promotion for a new fitness-project of Daniel Westling, which hardly couldn´t open a new gym, when he wouldn´t know the princess. Because since his relationship with the swedish successor to the throne started, the business volume of his gyms improved considerably. Daniel even doesn´t need to work hard, because there are not many among the young, beautiful and rich people of Stockholm, which wouldn´t like to have him as personal trainer. Seldom before it was that easy to be in the near of the court, even though an annual ticket for his gym now costs 2050 Euro, private lessons with the "personal trainer" not included.

It´s said, that (now) the trainer is a thorn in the side of the Royal couple. How the king and the queen think of Daniel´s business, isn´t known, but it´s said, that they turn up their noses at his intellectual performances. "The Royal couple thinks, that his soft skills and his general education is too small/low. They don´t think, that he´s a proper husband for the future queen", says an anonymous source in "Expressen"
Of course, there´s nothing official about this topic known. But outstanding is, that Victoria´s friend was never invited (of the court). And seldom the court was as fast with a denial as then, when it was reported, that Victoria would want to move to Daniel...

published at the 6th of April, 2004
Article in german

Lena 04-15-2004 07:11 PM

Quote:

So if even a German newspaper writes about Vics current Boyfriend that way. I think his chances as future husband decrease from day to day. On the other hand side what should you say:

I am not stupid!
I can read!
I do know some authors by name!

So the only thing you could say is: this is nonsense! but would it matter?

Actually you´re right...he can´t really defend himself...maybe he could try to get caught of photographers, when he sits on a bench and reads the book of the current nobel prize winner in literature in english...but then people would say, he does this on purpose.
I think to keep silent is the best he can do...but maybe he should try to look friendlier, when photographers appear, especially when they are at "open places" like stadiums.

You (mixer) as german surely read the article in german...I´m not sure, if it came in my translation out that many things in the article were quoted and written in subjunctive...so they DON´T CLAIM, that Daniel Westling is stupid and takes advantage of Victoria...and even the worst german tabloids just wrote this week, that the swedish press isn´t fair to Daniel W. ( I guess they are meekly now, after the trials)

GrandDuchess 04-15-2004 09:02 PM

Quote:

Lena wrote:
Thanks for your great help, grandduchess and Robbert... A few more questions: Firstly, do you think that the king would give the future prince consort of Sweden (DanielII or not) the Seraphim-order?
And prince Henrik surely was for the french military in Algeria(?) So why did he get of the Danes the titles "Admiral" and "General".
BTW now I´ve read the bio of Henrik on the official page...and there is something mentioned, which I already knew. (but which I´ve more or less "forgotten") Prince Henrik produces wine and sells it...so what do the Danes think about this? If they aren´t against it, there could also be a chance, that a swedish prince leads an own little business (?)

On your fist question, whether I think that The King would confer the Order of the Seraphim to the Crown Princess’s coming husband, I don’t know and no one will know until later on in this life. The members of the Royal House of Sweden who are in the Line of Succession, are in the current tradition conferred with the Order of the Seraphim when they turn 18, as happened in the case of Crown Princess Victoria, Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine.

My guess would be that if the future husband of the Crown Princess does get to receive the Order of the Seraphim – it would be either after their marriage, or when the Crown Princess ascends the Throne and becomes Queen (in that case it would be our current Crown Princess who confers it to her husband).

The Queen was conferred the Order of the Seraphim in 1976 before she married The King, due to the current rules attached to the order in those days – saying it could only be conferred to foreign citizens. Since 1995 it is also conferred to the members of the Royal House of Sweden.

Prince Henrik’s military rank titles are of a strictly honorary nature, and it may be in accordance with the Danish traditions – I don’t know. In Sweden, there are very few people that have the highest rank titles in defence, and the few royals that holds/did hold ranks are often born as royals. I believe that it is only The King, of the present Royal House, who at this present time holds these high ranks in the Swedish Defence.

If the future husband of our Crown Prince owns a business, it would have to be something rather neutral and tradition bound. In the case of Daniel’s gym business – I think most people (if not everyone) see and agree that he cannot keep his business.

Prince Henrik’s vineyard and his vine business is widely accepted, much because that is has to do with the traditions from his French family (who have been winemakers for centuries).

Prince Henrik’s family, the Monpezat’s, originates from Cahors in France (where Château de Caïx, the vineyard is). And in 1974, Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik bought the Château de Caïx, near the domains of his French family and started the vinery, which is today a very well known and prestigious one.

Lena 04-15-2004 09:23 PM

So if I understand you right, there´s a high chance, that Daniel would get nothing, no order, and no military title...just the title "prince consort" and "Father of the Queen´s children". Strong meat... I know, that we live in the 21st century, and I´m for feminsim, but though it´s a fact, that a lot of men, have problems to be in less powerful positions than their wives... and this is probably already hard enough, when you work in different jobs, but when you´re in the same, and you wife is above you...then it´s obviously for you every single second...
One picture came to my mind: There´s Victoria, bright, stunning, in full "regalia" at a gala...and a few steps behind her-near the corner-stands her husband, the prince consort and suddenly the people start to give him their coats, because they think, that he´s a "hallstand".
Well, maybe it´s just me...maybe I should start to rethink...but though I don´t think, that it will become easy for the swedish prince consort...one thing is sure, he has to be a "strong personality"

GrandDuchess 04-15-2004 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 15th, 2004 - 7:23 pm
So if I understand you right, there´s a high chance, that Daniel would get nothing, no order, and no military title...just the title "prince consort" and "Father of the Queen´s children"
I'm almost certain that he will get no military rank title, as I explained in my last post:
Quote:

Grand Duchess earlier:
In Sweden, there are very few people that have the highest rank titles in defence, and the few royals that holds/did hold ranks are often born as royals. I believe that it is only The King, of the present Royal House, who at this present time holds these high ranks in the Swedish Defence.

- but when it comes to the Order of the Seraphim - no one knows!

There is a chance that the Crown Princess's future husband gets it, but there is also the chance he doesn't.

Quote:

GrandDuchess earlier:
On your fist question, whether I think that The King would confer the Order of the Seraphim to the Crown Princess’s coming husband, I frankly don’t know and no one will know until later on in this life. The members of the Royal House of Sweden who are in the Line of Succession, are in the current tradition conferred with the Order of the Seraphim when they turn 18, as happened in the case of Crown Princess Victoria, Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine.

My guess would be that if the future husband of the Crown Princess does get to receive the Order of the Seraphim – it would be either after their marriage, or when the Crown Princess ascends the Throne and becomes Queen (in that case it would be our current Crown Princess who confers it to her husband).


Alexandria 04-15-2004 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 15th, 2004 - 8:23 pm
So if I understand you right, there´s a high chance, that Daniel would get nothing, no order, and no military title...just the title "prince consort" and "Father of the Queen´s children". Strong meat... I know, that we live in the 21st century, and I´m for feminsim, but though it´s a fact, that a lot of men, have problems to be in less powerful positions than their wives... and this is probably already hard enough, when you work in different jobs, but when you´re in the same, and you wife is above you...then it´s obviously for you every single second...
One picture came to my mind: There´s Victoria, bright, stunning, in full "regalia" at a gala...and a few steps behind her-near the corner-stands her husband, the prince consort and suddenly the people start to give him their coats, because they think, that he´s a "hallstand".
Well, maybe it´s just me...maybe I should start to rethink...but though I don´t think, that it will become easy for the swedish prince consort...one thing is sure, he has to be a "strong personality"

I agree with a lot of what you've said, Lena. I think that a lot of men in Daniel's position would have a problem with their wife not just in a more powerful position than them socially, but in many other ways, as well.

As the Queen of Sweden, Victoria will hold the highest position in Sweden, as the head of the state, even if only symbolically. She will be the one who probably earns more money, or at least have better access financially than Daniel, even if his gym business is a successful enterprise.

She will likely be one of the most important people in Sweden--and no matter how liberal-minded Daniel is, I would think that his ego would take even a little beating in knowing that his wife is more important and powerful than him, in addition to being the "breadwinner" of the family.

While I am completely all for Queen power (and the next generation of royals will certainly see lots of Queens holding court), I think Margrethe and Henrik of Denmark are a good (bad?) example of how the imbalance of power can affect a person's sense of self-worth. Whatever one might think of Henrik and his eccentric ways, I think that Henrik's sense of being the third member of his family, only after his wife and his son, speaks volumes. In the future, Daniel could also be in this position, taking a back seat to Victoria and their eldest child. Nobody likes to feel less important than others, and especially not on such a publicly known/aware level. Prince Phillip of Great Britain has also expressed similiar dismay about his role within the Windsor family, and how frustrating it is to know that your wife is more important than you and that you will always be regarded as "less than her." (How did Prince Claus feel as Queen Beatrix' Queen consort? Or perhaps he was not as vocal as the other Queen consorts?) Perhaps the 'inferior-like' views and attitudes of Henrik and Phillip are more related to their generation, and perhaps Daniel might react differently as a modern man. I certainly hope that for his and Victoria's sake he would; it would certainly make his life easier in the long run.

GrandDuchess 04-15-2004 10:22 PM

Very vell said, Alexandria! The life as Prince Consort is indeed a complex one, and one could hope that the future husband of our Crown Princess "takes it as a modern man" - but it will be hard, no matter what century we are in - things are still as it is.

The character and personality of her future husband will have to be very strong.

Lena 04-15-2004 11:26 PM

Yes, indeed very well said, Alexandria! I guess I have a "twin mind" in Canada. ;)
I´m just wondering about one thing... Does Victoria really want the "modern man" as husband?! Let´s have a look at her choices (Daniel I and Daniel II): both IMO were of the species "protective guy". And when we just talk about Daniel Westling...imo he doesn´t seem to me, as if he would be a very feministic guy...ok, I don´t know his attitude towards feminsim...but my impression (so far) is, that he´s a man, who needs his independence, manly rituals (I talk about his ardor for all kind of sports...competition...the "leftover" of the hunts on the mammoths ;) No, I don´t say, that women don´t watch sports or practise it...but on the whole-though I believe in feminism and though I like soccer-I think that this "crazy enthusiasm" for sports will always belong to the male part of the world population ;) ) and the feeling, that he can protect "his" girl, that he´s the one, who can give her the feeling of confidence... and if such a man (even when he pretends to be modern...yes, even when he says it to himself in the mirror every morning) wants to give up his independence (and maybe dominance) for a role as prince consort..that´s the big question!

hrhcp 04-16-2004 01:03 AM

Quote:

Lena  Posted: Apr 15th, 2004 - 7:23 pm

So if I understand you right, there´s a high chance, that Daniel would get nothing, no order, and no military title...just the title "prince consort" and "Father of the Queen´s children". Strong meat... I know, that we live in the 21st century, and I´m for feminsim, but though it´s a fact, that a lot of men, have problems to be in less powerful positions than their wives... and this is probably already hard enough, when you work in different jobs, but when you´re in the same, and you wife is above you...then it´s obviously for you every single second...
One picture came to my mind: There´s Victoria, bright, stunning, in full "regalia" at a gala...and a few steps behind her-near the corner-stands her husband, the prince consort and suddenly the people start to give him their coats, because they think, that he´s a "hallstand".
Well, maybe it´s just me...maybe I should start to rethink...but though I don´t think, that it will become easy for the swedish prince consort...one thing is sure, he has to be a "strong personality"

On the flip side ... he (that is, if he becomes consort) would be a "role model" for the 'next generation'.

I mean ... look at it ..... Victoria will be ruler as the next generation of current future rulers are at present babies: the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway .....

Interesting transition period once Victoria becomes Queen; her husband will be 'looked up to' by prospects thinking of becoming Prince Consorts in further years to come. Quite a novel thought !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It wouldn't surprise me if CP V has thought about that ...... and CP Haakon and CP Philip have shown the way of marrying of the country's own.

mixer2002de 04-16-2004 11:53 AM

Quote:

Actually you´re right...he can´t really defend himself...maybe he could try to get caught of photographers, when he sits on a bench and reads the book of the current nobel prize winner in literature in english...but then people would say, he does this on purpose.
I think to keep silent is the best he can do...but maybe he should try to look friendlier, when photographers appear, especially when they are at "open places" like stadiums.

I think its quite hard to be a public person if the media does not like you. And Daniel II became public because he is the crown princess boyfriend.

Quote:


You (mixer) as german surely read the article in german...I´m not sure, if it came in my translation out that many things in the article were quoted and written in subjunctive...so they DON´T CLAIM, that Daniel Westling is stupid and takes advantage of Victoria...and even the worst german tabloids just wrote this week, that the swedish press isn´t fair to Daniel W.*

Yes the German newspaper does not claim this beeing its own opinion. Its more or less a report what other swedish newspapers wrote. But the German newspaper seems to be a more serious one so would be common for them to report this way.
But I do not understand why they cared about that. Maybe they had some free space to fill and did not know what to write.
Anyway Daniel W does not stand in a good light after that report!
Quote:


( I guess they are meekly now, after the trials)

I wonder if it was just coincidal that they were sued after I had written in this forum that sueing them would be a good idea.

Alexandria 04-16-2004 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lena@Apr 15th, 2004 - 10:26 pm
Yes, indeed very well said, Alexandria! I guess I have a "twin mind" in Canada. ;)
Thank you, GrandDuchess and Lena.

@ Lena: Maybe we share one mind? ;) (Although I don't think it's a really good idea for me to be sharing whatever bit of mind I have left in tact! :P )

Quote:

I´m just wondering about one thing... Does Victoria really want the "modern man" as husband?! Let´s have a look at her choices (Daniel I and Daniel II): both IMO were of the species "protective guy". And when we just talk about Daniel Westling...imo he doesn´t seem to me, as if he would be a very feministic guy...
I think that everybody likes to feel protected and safe, not necessarily to the point where one is completely dependent on another person, but to know that we are taken care of and that someone is there to provide security for us is a generally nice feeling. And Victoria being in the position she is and being constantly watched and followed by the press and paparazzi, perhaps Victoria is more vulnerable than most people, and a sense of security and protection is more important to her. Or simply that nice safe feeling of knowing that she can completely trust Daniel even if she is weary of others.

Quote:

but my impression (so far) is, that he´s a man, who needs his independence, manly rituals [...] and the feeling, that he can protect "his" girl, that he´s the one, who can give her the feeling of confidence... and if such a man (even when he pretends to be modern...yes, even when he says it to himself in the mirror every morning) wants to give up his independence (and maybe dominance) for a role as prince consort..that´s the big question!
I sense this from Daniel, as well; that he is a person who likes his independence and does not like to be "bossed around" or ruled by others or the rituals of royal court or otherwise. He likes to feel like at least, if not also be, the protector of the people in his life and be able to come to their defence or defend their honour. I think that as a prince consort Daniel's independent streak would most certainly be tested as the confines of royal duty and protocol can be quite stifling. Not everybody is cut out for life under the public eye with obligations to history and protocol to follow. (Sarah Ferguson rebelled under the pressures while Princess Masako suffered from stress as a result.) As I don't know much about Daniel, I don't know if he is cut out for this kind of life, even if he does love Victoria tremendously.

Josefine 05-13-2004 06:59 AM

if he gets married to Victoria do you think he can be a qoner or do he have to sell to his partner?

Yennie 05-13-2004 07:04 AM

I hope he is allowed to have "his thing". I dont think he would be happy to dedicate his entire life to be prince/king or wathever he´s called....
a part time gym owner is perfect :P
But I can see problems in that too. the royal family dont "favour" certain things and places and give them free pr.
They´ve already done that with Master training but when (if!) Victoria and Daniel get married its official, and it might not be appropiate that a member of the royal family owns a gym...

Lena 05-13-2004 07:31 AM

I can´t imagine that he could keep his gym. Think of all the fuss, when it was claimed, that Victoria "worked" as pr-girl for Daniel´s gym. And so far she´s just his girlfriend.
But maybe he could find a task as prince, where he could live out his strong interest for sports. For example as head of an organisation, which "fetch away" teenagers from the streets, and offers them opportunities to do sports. Or maybe he could work as "ambassador" for Olympia.

Alexandria 09-07-2004 09:53 PM

Public View of Daniel Westling
 
I know the King and Queen have accepted and welcomed Daniel as part of Victoria's life but what is the word on the street in Sweden about Daniel's appropriateness or suitability for the role? He strikes me as someone who intensely cares for his privacy (who can blame him) and would find palace life and the life of being the Queen Reageant's consort quite limiting and confining. He never looks all that happy or comfortable when photographed with Victoria when they are out and about. I sympathize with him that it must be annoying, but when I think about how Mary, Letizia, Maxima, etc. have reacted I think its a very different approach. The ladies, while they may not care for it at times, don't seem to scowl as much as Daniel does. Even if they were clenching their teeth beneath the exterior of those pearly white smiles, they still put on a bit of a show. There is something to be said for an individual who doesn't fake his or her feelings but considering the very public role Daniel would be taking on, I think in some cases it is appropriate and even necessary to grin and bear it no matter how you truly felt inside.

Or perhaps do you think that in time Daniel will adjust, adapt and learn to live with the press presence in his life? Mette-Marit is the most recent royal who comes to mind who seemed to despise the press in the beginning of her relationship with Haakon. She, too, often scowled at the press, particularly when they followed her trips to the park with Haakon and her son. But in recent years I think she's gotten better at either hiding her true feelings about the press or just gotten so used to it it doesn't faze her anymore.

Lena 09-07-2004 10:14 PM

"The word on the street"...an interesting question and hard to answer...maybe the Swedes can say something to it (is Daniel W. a topic in your social circles? And when yes, which opinions do people have)

Hm, I´m not sure if I would still agree, that Daniel is really unhappy with the idea to become a prince.
As you can see in the picture above Daniel is posing for the camera...maybe not really happy looking, but he did.
And in the beginning of this summer he has started to talk to the press. And has given very cryptic answers on the questions of a reliable swedish journalist (e.g. "Och den dag saker och ting händer så kommer det också att märkas"-"And on the day, on which things/something happen, you/the ppl will note it")
It looks as if Daniel has started to enjoy the game with the press. I even wonder if this wasn´t the case from the very beginning. I don´t want to allege that he has/had dishonest motives...but I think that Daniel Westling is far more a guy, who seeks for a challenge and who loves it to socialize with people, than a shy boy from a mini-town in the middle of nowhere.

GrandDuchess 09-07-2004 10:57 PM

My apprehension of the Swedes feelings for Daniel Westling is this: they (or shall I say we) are not jumping with joy about him, but they/we accept him because he is the choice of our Crown Princess (at least this far).

BUT - I think that if Crown Princess Victoria and Daniel decide to marry at one point, Daniel will have an extremely tough time ahead of him. Because once the engagement comes, I expect that the people will have big expectations on him.

He will be expected to be what he is not today (his clothes, nicer to the press, more open etc.) quite immediately. So he has a lot to learn if before an announcement like that. Also the way our Crown Princess is must make it even harder for her future husband – she always does a lot of work in the Royal Family and wants to do her best at all times – this means that her husband will have to put in the second half of the work to make them a good working couple.

The press will not have much patience, the people maybe a little more – but the expectations will be big.

And yes, Daniel Westling is a topic on and off in my circles at least – but maybe not with the most positive comments… For myself, I accept Daniel because I want our Crown Princess to be able to love whomever she chooses and he is now her choice – nothing more, nothing less.

Lena 09-08-2004 01:00 PM

Thank you for your opinion and your impressions, GrandDuchess.

Hm, I´ve thought the Swedes would feel at least a little bit proud, that Victoria might choose a Swede. But I also see, that his education is a problem...as you´ve said Victoria is a high achiever...and all the politicians, ambassadors and economy people around the Royal family had an first class education. And those people were chosen, because they have the competence to do their job. Daniel would be chosen out of love...actually a wonderful and romantic reason...but he also will be measured with the standards, which are "common" for people in high positions.
I also think, that it will be/is harder for Daniel, because he´s a man. Alexandria has said, that the crown princesses seemed nicer, when they met the press (before their weddings)...isn´t it always for a girl "easier" to be nice...or at least it´s more common...the women are the ones, who smile permanently, who hug little kids, who "beam" in the limelight through their elegance, their style...men are more in the background. But I guess it´s not easy to win hearts from the background. You´ve 3 possibilities...1) you stay there and suffer from it that you´re only the "shadow" (maybe you would get credit from the ppl for that...like the late prince Claus from the Netherlands)
2) you try to attract attention (here for a woman it would be easy...buy some exclusive Gucci-gowns, do some charity and smile)...but then it could be that the people would criticize you, because you put the attention away from the real sovereign and because you seem too arrogant, attention-seeking etc.
or 3) you find a balance between 1 and 2.

I guess number 3 is the best way, but the most difficult to achieve. And if Daniel would be diplomatic and wise enough to do it this way and to try hard is the big question...only time would/will show.

Cissan 09-08-2004 01:16 PM

My image of the Swedes' opinion of Daniel is that the older generation, like my parents and grand parents are not so happy about him. They think "he will bring down the monarchy".

I, on the other hand, am so happy to see Victoria smiling and in love so I really wish that they will get married so that he can continue making her this happy for the rest of her life.

And then we have the socialists in Sweden, which is a big group that neither myself or my family is a part of. The newspaper Aftonbladet where Daniel Nyhlén works is a socialist paper. This group is quite happy for this relationship I believe. They like the fact that there might be a working class boy as a prince regnant one day.

However, this is just how I belive that people feel. Other Swedes might have a different opinion.

Lena 09-08-2004 01:36 PM

Thank you for your opinion and impressions too, Cissan.
I should have asked this question long before...I mean we have discussed "Daniel & the press", "Daniel and the people" and "Daniel and the Royal court" a few dozens time, but it´s hard for foreigners to get an real idea, a real "picture"...and there you, the Swedes, are a great help.
Maybe Yennie and Josefine can also add, what they think (of course only if you want ;) )

mgrant 10-21-2004 05:41 PM

Will he be a consort?

MoonlightRhapsody 10-21-2004 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgrant

By the way, I know this was discussed previously, will he be a consort?

Yes. He won't be titled as "King" because it has a connotation as being higher in rank than "queen", so like Henrik of Denmark and Claus of the Netherlands, he would have the title "Prince Consort".

hrhcp 10-22-2004 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody
... he would have the title "Prince Consort".

BTW ... what's Silvia's official title, "Queen" or "Queen Consort" ?

mktv2000 10-22-2004 04:40 PM

Her title is "Queen"

hrhcp 10-22-2004 09:13 PM

I was afraid you were going to say that.

I was trying to work up an excuse for Daniel to go around and let himself be called "King Consort".

I mean, if the wive of a king is allowed to call herself queen, how fair is it for the husband of a queen to be called a prince consort?

Lena 12-05-2004 06:30 PM

Daniel and the press
 
If the king would act more charming, would the press immediately start to write nice things about him? Or when the press would write nice articles on him, would he start to act friendlier.
IMO it´s not just the fault of the press, or Carl Gustaf´s "boring" look. There are kings, who get positive feedback!

The same for Daniel Westling. Would he smile and start to stop his angry looks, if they would write nice things about him and would they write in a nicer way about him, when he would smile???

MoonlightRhapsody 12-05-2004 07:24 PM

You know, I'm getting the impressions that the media isn't too fond of Daniel very much. I'm sure he smiles more often, but I guess those pictures aren't as profitable as catching him in a bad mood. I often wonder just how much the media likes to twist things to their advantage.

hrhcp 12-05-2004 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena
Yes, but who should start? The king

When I see pictures of the King up to before the children turned 18, he appeared to be of good disposition.

What has compelled him to turn sour - lack of media attention ?

Dennism 12-06-2004 01:28 AM

I won´t speak for others but enlightened opinion has told me that the king is rather bored in his job. Think about it. He has had this job for 31 years. He has known that he would get that job for another 20 years before that. Maybe just a bit of boredom is creeping in. Also there´s the point of the media. He rarely gives interviews as has been noted before and I have a feeling that photographers belong for him on the Dante´s 9th circle of hell as well. Not least of all because of all of the trouble they have caused his family through the years. A protective father. We should admire that. I recall reading a book that there was an incident a few years after he and Silvia were married where he was light-hearted or spontaneous(think of Mary´s flying hat) and in the book, they said that Silvia largely loosened him up as we say in the American vernacular and that such a moment could never have happened before they were married. Also we know that two of his children have had a certain shyness about them. And even Madeleine, bless her, I suspect there is something shy about her that will come closer to the surface as the years pass. This shyness is no doubt inherited from their father.

Idriel 05-25-2005 07:04 AM

Hi!
I would like to know if swedes are happy about DW becoming their next Prince Consort.
Is he popular?
I don't want to be mean but I really don't like him, so what's the feeling in Sweden?
Thankx

Lena 05-25-2005 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel
Hi!
I would like to know if swedes are happy about DW becoming their next Prince Consort.
Is he popular?
I don't want to be mean but I really don't like him, so what's the feeling in Sweden?
Thankx

I think the Swedes here should answer this. We had this before, but maybe the public opinion has changed?

Lena 06-11-2005 12:31 PM

Article on Daniel and his business:
https://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=298915

Fast translation by me:

Now Daniel wants to become the king of gyms

Crown princess Victorias boyfriend Daniel Westling, 31, doesn´t think about being a prince one day
No, he aims higher than this. He wants to become king. The king of gyms.
Daniel Westling owns 70% (haven´t we read, that Benny owns the bigger part of the cake?) of the health and training-business Master Training. There he fell in love with a sporty customer-the crown princess.
Now he´s putting in two top managers for his business-Gunnel Edenius, Information technology-boss for Länsförsäkringar (union of insurance companies) and Johan Ericsson, MD for Catella Property and a good friend to Daniels secret advisor Mats Jansson, manager for the Alex Johnson inc. [...]

Closes every month with a plus.
In Dagens Industri Daniel Westling tells, that he has enlarged his business with one more gym.
-We invested money in it, now it looks good. We close with a plus (asset) every month for both places.
-The health care (fitness) branch is a bit backwards in Sweden in comparison to other countries. We want to reach a bigger target group, he says to DI (maybe to cheapen the fees could help :rolleyes: )
Daniel Westling has been an enterpriser for 5 years.
-I love ("burn for" in the original text) that, what I do, I want to make decisions and I want to carry things out. To control/manage things and to get them running, this is my driving force. *

"Talks never about customers"
Daniel says nothing about it, how the development of his business was influenced through being Victorias boyfriend.
-We never speak about our customers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Oioioi, the red marked text is either a smart strategy or it´s a stab directly into the heart of the crown princess.
I wonder, how this thing about the managers/advisors can be seen. Is he searching for advise because his business is growing so fast and so strong or is he searching for managing directors, so that he can concentrate on other things (???)

Akilah 06-12-2005 07:09 PM

I don't understand the problem with Mr. Wrestling. If he makes Victoria happy, then I'm happy for her and them both. I think young royals have learned that you marry who makes you happy not for lineage or names. Look Frederick, Felipe, Haakon and now Charles, they all have married how they loved in the end. I don't think that Wrestlings business deals has anything to do with anything because if they were questionable Victoria wouldn't be spending to much time with him. I am sure she has people looking after her best interest.

mixer2002de 06-12-2005 07:24 PM

Well but raising a business contradicts the expected engagement! As prince consort he cannot go to work at least not in a private business. If he would be state employed it would be well maybe ok I think. Even working at a private company would make the people suspicous I think!

Lena 06-12-2005 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akilah
I don't understand the problem with Mr. Wrestling. If he makes Victoria happy, then I'm happy for her and them both. I think young royals have learned that you marry who makes you happy not for lineage or names. Look Frederick, Felipe, Haakon and now Charles, they all have married how they loved in the end. I don't think that Wrestlings business deals has anything to do with anything because if they were questionable Victoria wouldn't be spending to much time with him. I am sure she has people looking after her best interest.

Hm, I think that´s here not the question. Ok, I´ve never made a secret out of the fact, that I would prefer an other guy for her. But in the end this really doesn´t matter. As you say it´s most important, that they are in love. And that both have an important "base" for the years, when the love will "weaken" (and it will). Then things like friendship, trust and passion for the things they do will count a lot.
And so I wonder (and that´s why I´ve marked the one part red) how Daniel will be able to deal with the complete change from being an independent enterpriser to being an hard controlled employee of the state and being inferior to the monarch (who will be later his own wife).
Ok, what I say here doesn´t matter for the two, but I though hope they will become happy with each other or at least satisfied.

Danielle 06-12-2005 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixer2002de
Well but raising a business contradicts the expected engagement! As prince consort he cannot go to work at least not in a private business. If he would be state employed it would be well maybe ok I think. Even working at a private company would make the people suspicous I think!

So what will he do if he gets married to Victoria? Accompany her on trips and set up a foundation or something? :confused:

Lena 06-12-2005 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixer2002de
Well but raising a business contradicts the expected engagement! As prince consort he cannot go to work at least not in a private business. If he would be state employed it would be well maybe ok I think. Even working at a private company would make the people suspicous I think!

Yes, here I´m with your Mixer. The DI-article doesn´t make it sound as if an engagement would come soon. :confused:
Well, maybe the interview is a bit older (??) or maybe this is pure strategy and Daniel wants to get out of the business with a "bang" and doesn´t want to give us too many signs in advance. Both are already giving many signs in their private life, so maybe he wants to be carefully with the business (??) Well, then it would be better not to talk to DI at all. I wonder, if he has any ideas, why he is interviewed of DI. Surely not because he is such an good enterpriser...I´ve checked their online archive. They haven´t featured any other gym. Even not the big chains, which own 10 gyms and more

mixer2002de 06-12-2005 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
So what will he do if he gets married to Victoria? Accompany her on trips and set up a foundation or something? :confused:

Maybe I am mean but Victorias husband would be seen as the husband of the crown princess or later the queen if she gets queen. So he will have to handle with the fact that he would not be seen as independent person he just will be seen as add on of her. SO it will be a hard and long way to be seen as more than just the crown princesse's husband...

mixer2002de 06-12-2005 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena
Yes, here I´m with your Mixer. The DI-article doesn´t make it sound as if an engagement would come soon. :confused:
Well, maybe the interview is a bit older (??) or maybe this is pure strategy and Daniel wants to get out of the business with a "bang" and doesn´t want to give us too many signs in advance. Both are already giving many signs in their private life, so maybe he wants to be carefully with the business (??) Well, then it would be better not to talk to DI at all. I wonder, if he has any ideas, why he is interviewed of DI. Surely not because he is such an good enterpriser...I´ve checked their online archive. They haven´t featured any other gym. Even not the big chains, which own 10 gyms and more

Yeah I agree that DI would have wanted to find out something else so maybe it was a lame excuse that they wanted to make an interview about his business...

Lena 06-12-2005 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
So what will he do if he gets married to Victoria? Accompany her on trips and set up a foundation or something? :confused:

and making every now and then cheeky comments like prince Philip or going to Ockelbo for sulking like a certain danish prince (who didn´t go to Ockelbo of course) :rolleyes:
My guess is, that Daniel will do pretty much that, what the other prince consorts did. But I think he will focus a bit stronger on charity, then they did.
I´m sure (when he is the one) he will end up with a sports foundation, helping/supporting children and teenagers.
Maybe he will do some health campaigns (against smoking, drinking too much, eating unhealthy, couch potatoes) and will act as Co-author of books.
IMO doing this he would feel like a duck in the water and this would be the easiest way to come to an arrangement with the other "boring" things he has to do (attending galas, watching plays in theaters etc.)

Lena 06-12-2005 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixer2002de
Maybe I am mean but Victorias husband would be seen as the husband of the crown princess or later the queen if she gets queen. So he will have to handle with the fact that he would not be seen as independent person he just will be seen as add on of her. SO it will be a hard and long way to be seen as more than just the crown princesse's husband...

That´s interesting. I wish we could make a "males only"-poll on TRF, for which only the male members would answer...answering the question, if they would want to do the job or not.

Danielle 06-12-2005 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena
and making every now and then cheeky comments like prince Philip or going to Ockelbo for sulking like a certain danish prince (who didn´t go to Ockelbo of course) :rolleyes:
My guess is, that Daniel will do pretty much that, what the other prince consorts did. But I think he will focus a bit stronger on charity, then they did.
I´m sure (when he is the one) he will end up with a sports foundation, helping/supporting children and teenagers.
Maybe he will do some health campaigns (against smoking, drinking too much, eating unhealthy, couch potatoes) and will act as Co-author of books.
IMO doing this he would feel like a duck in the water and this would be the easiest way to come to an arrangement with the other "boring" things he has to do (attending galas, watching plays in theaters etc.)

I know that I would be very upset at the thought of giving up my job (if I actually had one, ha ha ha), so I think Daniel setting up a foundation which kind of links in with his interests is a good idea. I don't know if I could see him co-writing books, but I could see him setting up fitness programs for children who are overweight, etc. Not only does he have 'expertise' in this are, but he will be doing a lot of good. But we never know; he could surprise us all and start up a "Music Appreciation Foundation" where he accompanies little kids to Destiny's Child concerts. :D

Lena 06-12-2005 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
so I think Daniel setting up a foundation which kind of links in with his interests is a good idea. I don't know if I could see him co-writing books...



I must admit, I also can´t see him doing this. Then again I´m always surprised about his words in the few interviews, that he has given (of course it sounds better in Swedish than in the Lena-translations). His thesaurus is not that bad -well, after the many reports about his education, I´ve expected the worst :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
But we never know; he could surprise us all and start up a "Music Appreciation Foundation" where he accompanies little kids to Destiny's Child concerts. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle

Hahahaha, good one. :D I wish someone would give them a good sorted "music box" with many CDs and maye even some records for their wedding (just like the one MM and Haakon have gotten)
Well, I guess you (Danielle) and Alexandria would suggest an big full loaded ipod ;)

mixer2002de 06-12-2005 08:09 PM

But the ipod should just carry licensed legal music which seems to be quite an issue as I read somwhere that illegal music downloads in Sweden are quite in, which is a big problem for the industry there...

Lena 06-12-2005 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixer2002de
But the ipod should just carry licensed legal music which seems to be quite an issue as I read somwhere that illegal music downloads in Sweden are quite in, which is a big problem for the industry there...

Well, the CD-box for MM and Haakon was a gift from the government. I can´t imagine, that PM Göran Persson personally would download 10000 songs illegally from the internet for the crown princess and the prince ;) :p

Danielle 06-12-2005 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena
I must admit, I also can´t see him doing this. Then again I´m always surprised about his words in the few interviews, that he has given (of course it sounds better in Swedish than in the Lena-translations). His thesaurus is not that bad -well, after the many reports about his education, I´ve expected the worst :o

Hahahaha, good one. :D I wish someone would give them a good sorted "music box" with many CDs and maye even some records for their wedding (just like the one MM and Haakon have gotten)
Well, I guess you (Danielle) and Alexandria would suggest an big full loaded ipod ;)

Maybe he's been reading a lot more. That would often improve ones vocabulary (hence why mine is still shocking :p).

Oh yes, definitely an iPod. I gladly would part with mine (well, I would shed a tear or two) just so they could listen to what I term 'good music'. You know what, sending them music for their wedding is a good idea. I shall start thinking of good albums right now. :)

EDIT: Sorry Lena. I quoted your post before you changed it. :o

Lena 06-12-2005 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
Maybe he's been reading a lot more. That would often improve ones vocabulary (hence why mine is still shocking :p).

Well, your reading list for winter (when I have read that firstly I was quite confused...what?! winter?!...the europeans egocentric world view ;) ) is quite impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
Oh yes, definitely an iPod. I gladly would part with mine (well, I would shed a tear or two) just so they could listen to what I term 'good music'. You know what, sending them music for their wedding is a good idea. I shall start thinking of good albums right now. :)


Actually this is really an nice idea. Ppl will send them baby wear, so why not music. I wonder, if they would get their own song (like Mary and Frederik or like queen Silvia with "dancing queen")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle
EDIT: Sorry Lena. I quoted your post before you changed it. :o

no problemo. I must admit (confession time) that I´ve done yesterday something worse. I wanted to quote a post from you, but by accident I pressed the "edit"-button so the post was gone. Don´t worry, I could go back on the original version...but now in the post one can read "edited by Lena" :o

PrincessNatalie 04-16-2006 11:48 AM

If Victoria and Daniel got married,what would be his title?
 
Title says it all.

would he be called Prince Daniel? because Princess Anne's 1st husband didn't have a title nor was he given one.

I would like to know out of curiosity.

thanks

Avalon 04-16-2006 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessNatalie
Title says it all.

would he be called Prince Daniel? because Princess Anne's 1st husband didn't have a title nor was he given one.

I would like to know out of curiosity.

thanks

I suppose he will be given a title but not Prince, perhaps a Duke. At least not until Crown Princess Victoria becomes a Queen. Then he will be Prince.
Princess Anne was not heir to the throne and her husband didn't have to be given any title, especially Prince.
And if I remember right, Princess Anne rejected all possible titles for her husband and children.

GrandDuchess 04-16-2006 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessNatalie
Title says it all.

would he be called Prince Daniel? because Princess Anne's 1st husband didn't have a title nor was he given one.

I would like to know out of curiosity.

thanks

This question has been discussed a lot before - but we cannot answer it. When Victoria will marry, I think Victoria will have a say before her father as to what title her husband will have, but in the end it's the King's decision.

All we can do now is speculate. When the day comes, this will be a new situation in Sweden as females has not had this "problem" before. When a Swedish princess married a commoner in the old days, she simply lost her HRH, and they didn't even have succession rights back then.

So when the day comes for Victoria and Madeleine to marry, it will all be a new situation for the monarchy of Sweden.

soCal girl 04-16-2006 08:07 PM

If Victoria and Daniel got married; his title would most probably be something like HRH Prince Consort, but people would probably call him Prince Daniel for convenience. I forgot Victoria's duchy but I'm sure Daniel would also become the Duke of that. (This is when Victoria is Queen). I don't know what Daniel's title would be if they got married in the near future. :)

crisiñaki 04-16-2006 10:45 PM

I think that the man that Victoria marries would get the title of Duke (Consort) of Västergötland and of course when she became Queen he'll be for example HRH Daniel the Prince Consort of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland;)

RoyalKnottie 04-17-2006 01:25 AM

I agree. I think CP Victoria's husband (lets just pretend Daniel) will receive the title of HRH Duke of Västergötland while King Carl Gustaf is on the throne. When Victoria becomes Queen I bet her husband will become Prince Consort.

Margrethe II 04-17-2006 03:36 AM

I agree ladies..Duke of Västergötland is my guess ;) :)

Its most likely, however, that he would be made a Prince of the Kingdom of Sweden just like Henri (Prince Henrik) was in Denmark.

We shall wait and see...

"MII"

P.S What does this Daniel fellow look like? Is he anything to rave about, physique wise?

crisiñaki 04-17-2006 03:42 AM

The man who marries Victoria will became the Duke of Västergötland on marriage right, whether he's created a prince or not is up to King Carl Gustaf; but if Victoria gets married as a Queen, her husband would automatically be the Prince Consort of Sweden.

GrandDuchess 04-17-2006 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisiñaki
The man who marries Victoria will became the Duke of Västergötland on marriage right, whether he's created a prince or not is up to King Carl Gustaf; but if Victoria gets married as a Queen, her husband would automatically be the Prince Consort of Sweden.

Her future husband will not become a Prince Consort automatically when Victoria is the ruling Queen. It will be up to her then if she wants to change her husband's title then, from the one that King Carl XVI Gustaf created upon the couple's marriage. People who marry into the Royal Family doesn't get titles automatically, they have to be created in the discretion of the monarch.

soCal girl 04-17-2006 08:04 PM

I'm sure Victoria would give Daniel the title of Prince Consort when she is Queen (and if they ever marry....). But I don't know if Victoria would make him Prince of the Kingdom of Sweden like MII mentioned.

PrincessNatalie 04-18-2006 12:45 PM

Thanks for your replies.

I did think that he would be made Duke of Västergötland, but I was told by a friend that this is wrong because it would put him ahead of her in the order of precedence, he ranking higher than her on the basis on her title.

Empress 04-18-2006 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisiñaki
I think that the man that Victoria marries would get the title of Duke (Consort) of Västergötland and of course when she became Queen he'll be for example HRH Daniel the Prince Consort of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland;)

Is there such a title as Duke Consort? I have never heard of such. Hmm?

Empress 04-18-2006 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessNatalie
Thanks for your replies.

I did think that he would be made Duke of Västergötland, but I was told by a friend that this is wrong because it would put him ahead of her in the order of precedence, he ranking higher than her on the basis on her title.

Hmm, from where I sit, since she is Crown Princess, NO Duke would out rank her.

Furienna 04-18-2006 02:03 PM

This is why I say, that a queen's husband should become a king, just like a king's wife becomes a queen. A husband and a wife should be ranked equally. The title of king should not outrank the title of queen, which must be the case, since a king's wife can become a queen, but a queen's husband can't become a king. So when/if our crown princess Victoria or the norveigan princess Ingrid marry in the future, their husbands should be kings, when their wives are queens, not "just" princes.

soCal girl 04-18-2006 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
This is why I say, that a queen's husband should become a king, just like a king's wife becomes a queen. A husband and a wife should be ranked equally. The title of king should not outrank the title of queen, which must be the case, since a king's wife can become a queen, but a queen's husband can't become a king. So when/if our crown princess Victoria or the norveigan princess Ingrid marry in the future, their husbands should be kings, when their wives are queens, not "just" princes.

I get what you're saying. In the current system, the title King seems to outweigh the Queen. I agree that in this day and age; the title King and Queen should have the same value. But then again, doesn't King Daniel sound kind of odd?.....:rolleyes: :cool:

Princess of Monaco 04-18-2006 08:44 PM

If CP Victoria married with Daniel can be happen the same thing occur in Denmark with Queen Margareth or can be different?

Is true that the Kings accept Daniel??

Furienna 04-18-2006 09:06 PM

King Daniel doesn't sound more strange than Prince Daniel, does it?

Empress 04-18-2006 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
King Daniel doesn't sound more strange than Prince Daniel, does it?

Does anyone know if he has a middle name that could be used? Something more traditional.

He could also, as Henrik and several others, change his name to something more traditional

crisiñaki 04-18-2006 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress
Is there such a title as Duke Consort? I have never heard of such. Hmm?

I put it between () because he will be the consort of the Duchess, which means he'll be a Duke but won't outrank her because she's still the crown princess.; just what happened in Spain with the Infantas' husbands, they are both Dukes but they don't outrank their wives because they are "princess of Spain" unlike them.

soCal girl 04-19-2006 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
King Daniel doesn't sound more strange than Prince Daniel, does it?

I guess it doesn't. :) As long as he makes Sweden's future Queen happy; I guess I'm not that worried about his title. We'll know (soon?:cool: ) enough. I'm still waiting for an engagement announcement this year and a huge wedding in 2007. :rolleyes:

MoonlightRhapsody 04-19-2006 01:41 AM

The distinction between "King" and "Prince" is in the connotation. It sounds like "King" would outrank a "Queen" and even I think that would be grossly unfair if that view was applied to Victoria since she is the royal-born between the two of them.

Like other posters said, my bet would be he'd be called Duke first while the current King still sits on the throne and maybe be elevated to "Prince". Actually, I don't think Victoria would elevate him to "Prince Consort" even after she takes the throne. We'll see.

kaydura0717 04-19-2006 01:46 AM

Well I agree that he would/should get the title of Duke, why don't you think she'll elevate him to Prince Consort?

RoyalProtocol 04-28-2006 07:04 AM

I think he will be HRH The Prince Consort, like Henrik.
He will not be king, this would be poor protocol (going on a thousand years of tradition throughout Europe, eg Philip, Claus, Henrik.)
And as a final point he will assume precedence next to Victoria as consort of the sovereign.

This is presuming that they marry.

Daneborn 04-28-2006 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol
I think he will be HRH The Prince Consort, like Henrik.
He will not be king, this would be poor protocol (going on a thousand years of tradition throughout Europe, eg Philip, Claus, Henrik.)
And as a final point he will assume precedence next to Victoria as consort of the sovereign.

This is presuming that they marry.

I agree 100%

About the Duke-title, it's not something that's really in use in Sweden, I know they all have these titles but it doesn't give any meaning. I suppose he will automaticly become duke of Västergötland (since Victoria is the duchess).

It would be a constant laugh if they gave Daniel a duke title only.

RoyalProtocol 04-28-2006 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daneborn
I agree 100%

About the Duke-title, it's not something that's really in use in Sweden, I know they all have these titles but it doesn't give any meaning. I suppose he will automaticly become duke of Västergötland (since Victoria is the duchess).

It would be a constant laugh if they gave Daniel a duke title only.

Thanks,

The Ducal titles in Sweden do appear to be for the sake of it only. In the UK The Ducal title is always used eg. Duke of York but elsewhere it is just for show.

mixer2002de 04-28-2006 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
King Daniel doesn't sound more strange than Prince Daniel, does it?

King Daniel remembers me of King Ralph :)

soCal girl 04-28-2006 07:20 PM

After Victoria assumes the throne I would think that she would raise Daniel to HRH Prince Consort. Most of the European Queens have seemed to take that approach.

crisiñaki 04-28-2006 08:04 PM

The thing is that we don't have a point of comparison (not in Sweden) so we don't know what's gonna happen to the Crown Princess' husband;)

soCal girl 04-28-2006 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisiñaki
The thing is that we don't have a point of comparison (not in Sweden) so we don't know what's gonna happen to the Crown Princess' husband;)

True but I hope Victoria does make him Prince Consort should they ever marry. :cool: :)

Ms Griffin 04-29-2006 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol
I think he will be HRH The Prince Consort, like Henrik.
He will not be king, this would be poor protocol (going on a thousand years of tradition throughout Europe, eg Philip, Claus, Henrik.)
And as a final point he will assume precedence next to Victoria as consort of the sovereign.

They did also change the act of succession ;) :p

I don't think you can break one tradition saying "Well those are the (modern) times." and then stand by another tradition saying "Well, that is tradition. It was always like that." Either make it 100% or not at all. :rolleyes: :)


And thank heaven's Iputmyfootinmymouth Philip and Kiddie Henrik aren't King Consorts :eek: The only one who would have deserved it IMO was Prince Claus :)

Daneborn 04-29-2006 07:08 AM

When the Swedish King's sisters, for instance Christina, the title was changed into ''Princess Christina Mrs. Magnuson'' whereas the husband kept his name unchanged, Mr. Tord Magnuson.

If we translate that it would mean Victoria would become ''Queen Victoria mrs. Westling'' and Daniel will keep his name and ''title'', which is mr. Daniel Westling.

I know it sounds absurd but it's fun to play with thoughts :D

I believe to 99,9% in the HRH prince Daniel solution.

What will happen with Carl-Philip, Madeleine and their future spouses, that's the interesting part.

Princess Robijn 04-29-2006 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daneborn
When the Swedish King's sisters, for instance Christina, the title was changed into ''Princess Christina Mrs. Magnuson'' whereas the husband kept his name unchanged, Mr. Tord Magnuson.

If we translate that it would mean Victoria would become ''Queen Victoria mrs. Westling'' and Daniel will keep his name and ''title'', which is mr. Daniel Westling.

I know it sounds absurd but it's fun to play with thoughts :D

I believe to 99,9% in the HRH prince Daniel solution.

What will happen with Carl-Philip, Madeleine and their future spouses, that's the interesting part.

I believe the husband of Crown Princess Victoria will be: HRH Prince X of Sweden untill Victoria becomes Queen, after that I think he will be: HRH Prince X, the Prince Concort of Sweden.

I think the wife of Prince Carl-Philip will be: HRH Princess X of Sweden. (like Princess Lilian)

The husband of Princess Madeleine might be: X, the Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland, like the husbands of Infanta Elena and Infanta Christina.

Larzen 04-29-2006 07:25 AM

How about Queen Victoria and the Duke of Ockelbo:p

Seriously I also dont see how they can do anything else than make him a Prince, especially if they make Carl Philips wife a Princess. Accually that is the interesting part, if the make Carl Philips wife a Princess and then Madeleiens husband only MR whats his name, its clearly sexism, whuch I dont think will go down to well in modern Sweden. The only comparable situation is Belgium but since Astrids husbad already had a title it was not a problem, so unless Madeleine fancys marrying a royal we will have to wait and see what they decide

mixer2002de 04-29-2006 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daneborn
Queen Victoria mrs. Westling''

Wich suddenly would make it possible to have a lil spelling mistake Queen Victoria Ms Wrestling :D

Daneborn 04-29-2006 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisiñaki
The thing is that we don't have a point of comparison (not in Sweden) so we don't know what's gonna happen to the Crown Princess' husband;)

In 1714 Princess Ulrika Eleonora married a Prince Fredrik from some German principality. From 1713 she was made acting regent as her father was abroad in war, and she became reigning Queen upon his death in 1719.

She found it difficult to be reigning Queen and a submissive wife (this was the 18th century ;) ) First she suggested to make the prince co-reigning, but that suggestion wasn't successful with the politicians, so in 1720 she abdicated and her prince was made the reigning King :eek:

Who knows, His Majesty King Daniel may not be a totally farfetched castle in the air.

Daneborn 04-29-2006 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larzen
How about Queen Victoria and the Duke of Ockelbo:p

Seriously I also dont see how they can do anything else than make him a Prince, especially if they make Carl Philips wife a Princess. Accually that is the interesting part, if the make Carl Philips wife a Princess and then Madeleiens husband only MR whats his name, its clearly sexism, whuch I dont think will go down to well in modern Sweden. The only comparable situation is Belgium but since Astrids husbad already had a title it was not a problem, so unless Madeleine fancys marrying a royal we will have to wait and see what they decide

If you ask Daniel I think he will prefer Duke of Östermalm.

There has to be equality in titles when Carl-Philip and Madeleine marry.

We haven't seen it before, different genders in the same generation, so it's intriguing.

It turned out to be a mistake to make mrs. Alexandra Manley a princess, since the divorce was unevitable, and I think other courts have learned a lesson for future titles of spouses to non-heirs.


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