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Nico 02-26-2008 03:35 PM

State Visit from the President of France: March 26-27, 2008
 
I know it's next month but some news from today are, hum....interesting.:bang:

Speedy Sarkozy cuts short Queen visit after confessing: 'I love my Paris bed too much' | the Daily Mail

It doesn't sound good at all. I can't imagine our "dear" Presidential couple, epitome of the "Bling bling" vulgarity, in Windsor.
Well i'm french, i'm pround of my country and my history but i must say that i'am totally ashamed by my head of state's behaviour, and his wife, gosh, did you know that she wants to bring her guitare with her during the visit and sing for the Queen?
The british members of the board must know something: Mr Sarkozy will use your Queen, and all the visit, for PR purpose.... "vive l'entente cordiale":bang:

BeatrixFan 02-26-2008 03:41 PM

Firstly, where has Mr Sarzoky actually said he loves his Paris bed too much? Secondly, so she wants to bring a guitar. It's not an A bomb.

Elspeth 02-26-2008 03:47 PM

Sam, look at the headline of the article Nico linked to; it's one of the Mail's second-hand allegations, but then again, Nico didn't claim that Sarkozy actually said it.

LadyCat 02-26-2008 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734283)
I know it's next month but some news from today are, hum....interesting.:bang:

Speedy Sarkozy cuts short Queen visit after confessing: 'I love my Paris bed too much' | the Daily Mail

It doesn't sound good at all. I can't imagine our "dear" Presidential couple, epitome of the "Bling bling" vulgarity, in Windsor.
Well i'm french, i'm pround of my country and my history but i must say that i'am totally ashamed by my head of state's behaviour, and his wife, gosh, did you know that she wants to bring her guitare with her during the visit and sing for the Queen?
The british members of the board must know something: Mr Sarkozy will use your Queen, and all the visit, for PR purpose.... "vive l'entente cordiale":bang:

Perhaps after viewing the photos of his wife during the meeting on February 23, he's not so sure his bride should be subjected to more than one night on display with the British Royals, or rather that the royals should be subjected to more than one night with her. I had hopes that, as a former model, Ms Bruni would have a bit of class and style. But after seeing the photos taken during the meeting on February 23, I have to wonder. Surely she will dress and behave (body language, facial expressions, etc.) more in keeping with her new role as First Lady during a state visit.

Cat

BTW Can she sing? Perhaps one should send earlugs (anonymously of course) to the Queen, in the event Carla should pull out here guitar.:rolleyes:

TheTruth 02-26-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734283)
I know it's next month but some news from today are, hum....interesting.:bang:

Speedy Sarkozy cuts short Queen visit after confessing: 'I love my Paris bed too much' | the Daily Mail

It doesn't sound good at all. I can't imagine our "dear" Presidential couple, epitome of the "Bling bling" vulgarity, in Windsor.
Well i'm french, i'm pround of my country and my history but i must say that i'am totally ashamed by my head of state's behaviour, and his wife, gosh, did you know that she wants to bring her guitare with her during the visit and sing for the Queen?
The british members of the board must know something: Mr Sarkozy will use your Queen, and all the visit, for PR purpose.... "vive l'entente cordiale":bang:

Hi French compatriot :biggrin:! I also fear this meeting : Sarkozy doesn't seem to have a bit of decency to be in such presence. I'm also proud of being French (half-french only but still) but I feel completely shameful of the image the world has of us now, being ruled by a gutter press President and a folk singer ...

BeatrixFan 02-26-2008 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 734291)
Sam, look at the headline of the article Nico linked to; it's one of the Mail's second-hand allegations, but then again, Nico didn't claim that Sarkozy actually said it.

Thats what I meant. Where in the Mail does it say he said it. It doesn't. As you say, a second hand allegation that people really shouldn't get worked up about.

Nico 02-26-2008 04:22 PM

Quote:

Firstly, where has Mr Sarzoky actually said he loves his Paris bed too much? Secondly, so she wants to bring a guitar. It's not an A bomb.
For me the relation btw France and Great Britain is very special. Since Victoria all state visits btw these two nations had a "je ne sais quoi" of mixed glitter and friendship. Even Mitterrand, a socialist president, welcomed Elizabeth II with an infinite pump and respect in 1992. I was in paris during the 2004 queen's visit, it was the event of the year!
And voila, Mr Sarkozy (Mr "Get lost dumb ass" by the way) will use all the royal tradition as a background to sell the sexy concept of his new wife and to improve his own desastrous image. One night instead of two in Windsor is far enough for him, he wants just some glittering photos, he doesnt care about the rest...

BeatrixFan 02-26-2008 04:24 PM

It is very special but I think this witch hunt on Mr Sarzoky because he married a young pretty model is a bit much and it doesn't even come into our relationship with the French. It's the government we deal with, not Mrs Sarkozy. And what's the big deal if they only want to stay one night? Maybe they have more important engagements back in France?

Nico 02-26-2008 04:37 PM

Quote:

It is very special but I think this witch hunt on Mr Sarzoky because he married a young pretty model is a bit much
No no no! You know what? We don't care, Good for him!! The big fact is that were are really really fed up with all this presidential soap opera: Sarkozy in the morning news, Sarkozy at noon, Sarkozy in the evening news: He's everywhere: Sarkozy with Bush, Sarkozy with the Pope, we hope Sarkozy on the moon very soon...
The upcomming state visit will be, again, another Sarkozy show...

Duke of Marmalade 02-26-2008 04:38 PM

HM has survived George Bush and she will survive the second most embarrassing head of state among the G8 states, Monsieur Bling Bling. Looking at the last pics when Carla presented herself as first lady for the first time I wonder what is going on between those two. Maybe she'll cancel her stay shortly after arrival due to a throat infection, giving Sarko a dejavue, here we go again, another wife who doesn't fancy doing her duty. However, I do hope she does not turn up in black jeans and black sneakers again. Can't wait for some witty remarks from Philip leaking out to the media :lol:

BeatrixFan 02-26-2008 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734327)
No no no! You know what? We don't care, Good for him!! The big fact is that were are really really fed up with all this presidential soap opera: Sarkozy in the morning news, Sarkozy at noon, Sarkozy in the evening news: He's everywhere: Sarkozy with Bush, Sarkozy with the Pope, we hope Sarkozy on the moon very soon...
The upcomming state visit will be, again, another Sarkozy show...

He is President of France...one expects to see him with Bush and the Pope. And with our Queen.

TheTruth 02-26-2008 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734327)
No no no! You know what? We don't care, Good for him!! The big fact is that were are really really fed up with all this presidential soap opera: Sarkozy in the morning news, Sarkozy at noon, Sarkozy in the evening news: He's everywhere: Sarkozy with Bush, Sarkozy with the Pope, we hope Sarkozy on the moon very soon...
The upcomming state visit will be, again, another Sarkozy show...

Ah yes, I can't stand it anymore. I hope he won't destroy our relationship with UK forever :ermm:.

Sam, you should come to France for, lets say 1 week, and you'll see what we are experiencing here : you won't believe it ;).

BeatrixFan 02-26-2008 04:44 PM

Oh we've had it in Britain too. But I think it's important to hold back on criticism when the President is actually doing his job and that's what he's doing here - he's representing France in Britain. I don't see why this visit has immediately been pegged as a disaster with a thumbs down.

TheTruth 02-26-2008 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734335)
Oh we've had it in Britain too. But I think it's important to hold back on criticism when the President is actually doing his job and that's what he's doing here - he's representing France in Britain. I don't see why this visit has immediately been pegged as a disaster with a thumbs down.

It's anticipation. We had such echos of mistakes he made during important events that now, each time he's facing a meeting it's like France is holding its breath.

Nico 02-26-2008 04:55 PM

Quote:

Oh we've had it in Britain too. But I think it's important to hold back on criticism when the President is actually doing his job and that's what he's doing here - he's representing France in Britain. I don't see why this visit has immediately been pegged as a disaster with a thumbs down
In a way you're right...We will see, and maybe i'm wrong, who knows?
But the point is that i respect so much your country, your history and your institutions that i am deeply embarrassed to be represented by this man, not even popular in his own country 10 months only after his election.

zembla 02-26-2008 05:10 PM

I was beginning to wonder what the people of France were really thinking of their president...oh well, most Americans share in your embarrassment as we have the same problem, only different situations as to why the annoyance occurred...LOL

Lady Marmalade 02-27-2008 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 734328)
HM has survived George Bush and she will survive the second most embarrassing head of state among the G8 states, Monsieur Bling Bling. Looking at the last pics when Carla presented herself as first lady for the first time I wonder what is going on between those two. Maybe she'll cancel her stay shortly after arrival due to a throat infection, giving Sarko a dejavue, here we go again, another wife who doesn't fancy doing her duty. However, I do hope she does not turn up in black jeans and black sneakers again. Can't wait for some witty remarks from Philip leaking out to the media :lol:

Could you please refrain from name calling heads of government? I know it so chic and cool to verbally eviscerate my president, but, please not on here. Thank you.

Madame Royale 02-27-2008 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTruth (Post 734296)
Hi French compatriot :biggrin:! I also fear this meeting : Sarkozy doesn't seem to have a bit of decency to be in such presence. I'm also proud of being French (half-french only but still) but I feel completely shameful of the image the world has of us now, being ruled by a gutter press President and a folk singer ...

I adore France, am half french myself, though I think I'd prefer 'my' France to have a throne...;)

Gutter press president and folk singer...a shame, but it's true! His not fit to be president, imo.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 02:30 AM

Well, but he was elected, and it wasn't all that close an election if I remember right, so I assume a lot of French people think he's fit to be president (unless they're having collective second thoughts).

Personally I think it's discourteous to refuse to undertake a full-length state visit unless there's some crisis back in your own country that absolutely demands your personal attention. I mean, it's two bloody days - it wouldn't kill him to grit his teeth and put up with it.

Madame Royale 02-27-2008 04:13 AM

Quote:

...but he was elected
Momentary insanity by those who voted for him? We can only hope!

It is a disagraceful example that he intends to stay only one night as Her Majesty's guest. For a President to cut short his visit for no signifcant reason says to me that his atitude toward bilateral relations is not what it should be.

No doubt just enough time to exhibit his wife...lady companion...temporary fix, whatever.

Lady Marmalade 02-27-2008 11:10 AM

It is astounding how when the media in a country steers the direction of president's (or even Prime Minister) image as good or bad or indifferent, and then saturates it's country populace with good or bad or indifferent views of the elected president, the country's then populace start to believe and feel that either EVERYONE loves or hates this person. And then this becomes the norm to think.

What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.

I am typing this all in general terms to apply to any country including my own.

wbenson 02-27-2008 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade (Post 734656)
What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.



Though I agree that we shouldn't be bashing heads of state on here, yes, those polls are scientific in nature and do "statistically or mathematically" represent the country as a whole, especially when there have been so very many over such a long time. I don't really think polls are media conspiracies to shape the politics of a country, and I think saying that is just as bad.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 12:39 PM

In this case I don't think it's bashing President Sarkozy to say that his attitude to this state visit is disgraceful, to be honest.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 12:44 PM

But where's this attitude? All we've got is hear say.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 12:46 PM

He's cutting a state visit in half when there isn't any reason to do so. That's arrogant and inconsiderate.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 12:48 PM

Oh come on, how do you know there's no reason for it? It seems to me that ever since he married a pretty model he's been Hitler. His state visit is a short one, maybe he doesn't have time for all the pomp and pageantry and return dinners etc.

Empress 02-27-2008 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade (Post 734656)
It is astounding how when the media in a country steers the direction of president's (or even Prime Minister) image as good or bad or indifferent, and then saturates it's country populace with good or bad or indifferent views of the elected president, the country's then populace start to believe and feel that either EVERYONE loves or hates this person. And then this becomes the norm to think.

What we must remember, and Elspeth put it so appropriately, is that the person was elected and polls of a 1,000 people do not statistically or mathematically represent the country as a whole, or even a tiny percentage. The media just wants you to believe that.

I am typing this all in general terms to apply to any country including my own.

Working in PR I know what you mean. However, the media did not forcehim to meet, marry and make a fool of himself within a month. Nor did they force him to give the same ring to two women.

Generally speaking, in the past, (and I did live in Paris) I have admired the French press' attitude towards the personal life of their political leaders. As long as it did not affect the job, what they did in their own time was, if not okay, then at least private. However, this one has made such a mess of it all, and in such spectacular fashion, that it screams to be made a story. In all honesty he certainly does not have a stellar past when it comes to relationships, but this is astounding to me, not to mention ridiculous. He should remember that he represents the French people, and since he has chosen such a stupid way of making sure that he is written about, he now needs to take more care with what he does. As with royalty, political leaders are now answerable to the people, and as they represent the people, they should at least be discreet in their less than savoury affairs. I would not be surprised if this particular political leader finds himself out the door sooner than he would like. At least now Bush has a friend. Misery loves company they say.

And Sam, as far as I know there are no strikes, no bank scandals or anything else about the country of France, that would cause the French president to cut yet another state visit short a full month prior to the visit.

No one cares that he married a young model/ singer. It's the manner in which he has done it and the disregard he has shown for common decency and manners since that time.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 01:03 PM

Quote:

However, the media did not forcehim to meet, marry and make a fool of himself within a month. Nor did they force him to give the same ring to two women.
What on earth does this have to do with his work as President?

Al_bina 02-27-2008 01:05 PM

I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short. I dare to assume Mr. Sarkozy has got serious reasons for doing so. The fuss around the state visit in question is a bit premature.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734690)
Oh come on, how do you know there's no reason for it? It seems to me that ever since he married a pretty model he's been Hitler. His state visit is a short one, maybe he doesn't have time for all the pomp and pageantry and return dinners etc.


France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.

Moonmaiden23 02-27-2008 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734283)
I know it's next month but some news from today are, hum....interesting.:bang:

Speedy Sarkozy cuts short Queen visit after confessing: 'I love my Paris bed too much' | the Daily Mail

It doesn't sound good at all. I can't imagine our "dear" Presidential couple, epitome of the "Bling bling" vulgarity, in Windsor.
Well i'm french, i'm pround of my country and my history but i must say that i'am totally ashamed by my head of state's behaviour, and his wife, gosh, did you know that she wants to bring her guitare with her during the visit and sing for the Queen?
The british members of the board must know something: Mr Sarkozy will use your Queen, and all the visit, for PR purpose.... "vive l'entente cordiale":bang:


LOL! Carla wants to do what??! Has Her Majesty requested a song from Madame Bruni-Sarkozy or whatever she is?? Because if she has not, then Carla should leave the entertainment at State events to the experts! Good grief, this couple sounds almost too good to be true as far as the tabloids go.

I feel your pain Nico but just be thankful that you don't live here in America where we are given a minute by minute report on the progress of Britney Spears mental breakdowns. Or given-in excruciating detail-the progress of some starlet's pregnancy or battles with weight. Really I couldn't care less....I'd trade places with you French in a nano-second!

Empress 02-27-2008 01:09 PM

It has nothing to do with his ability to carry out the work of the president per se, but it has everything to do with the type of person that he is, which naturally reflects on his abilities.

If he is so wrapped up in his new relationship that he can not or will not conscientiously carry out the duties that a president must carry out, and instruct his first lady to also do so, with class,grace and dignity, then how are other world leaders supposed to take him seriously? And if they are unable to take him seriously, then how are they supposed to conduct business with him?

Moonmaiden23 02-27-2008 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 734702)
France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.


Brilliantly stated Elspeth and I couldn't agree more. Seriously, how did this man get voted into office with his attitude? I wonder if he has paid a visit to the Vatican yet...(shudders at the possibilities there!)

Empress 02-27-2008 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 734700)
I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short. I dare to assume Mr. Sarkozy has got serious reasons for doing so. The fuss around the state visit in question is a bit premature.


No reportedly about it. Please check here. It has already been changed on the BRF website and reads as follows:

Wednesday, 26th March 2008


The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh and 27th March - The President of the French Republic and Madame Nicolas Sarkozy will pay a State Visit to the United Kingdom and stay at Windsor Castle.

Nico 02-27-2008 01:59 PM

Quote:

I am inclined to agree with BeatrixFan on this matter. The French state visit was reportedly cut short.
It's official:
Media Centre > Event highlights > French State Visit, March 2008
And the mention "Madame Sarkozy" has appeared...

I use to say that we have, in France a "frustrated monarchy". We adore the image of a providential man as head of state, surrounded by all the republican glitter, with a certain "grandeur" in his attitude( and some discretion in his private life). That's true! De Gaulle, for exemple, was elected "french man of the 20 th century" in a recent poll. The big problem with Sarkozy is that he is destroying this model of the "president of all the french". After 12 years of a sometimes goofy but sympathetic Chirac and his sometimes dowdy but always dignifed Bernadette, we had, in 10 months, the epitome of the "nouveau riche" behaviour including power, arrogance, money, sex, divorce and finally a wedding (in de Gaulle's office at the Elysee) with an ex model 2 months after this divorce, all that mess showed on TV day after day. It's just a little too much for a lot of people....
It's not only about his personnal life, the political situation is not the best .This little big man promised a lot of things....


BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 734702)
France isn't in the middle of some crisis that demands his personal attention. He's stated well in advance that he won't be staying for the length of time for which he was invited - it's his free choice to reject HM's offered hospitality, and apparently he's doing it because he doesn't want to stay for the full length of time, not because he's under any compulsion to cut the visit short. Since international diplomacy is part of the duty of the Head of State and since state visits are a traditional part of international diplomacy, he's letting his own people down as well as snubbing our head of state.

As far as not having time for return dinners - that means that he's taking and not giving back in return. Which is discourteous.

If the Queen was invited to pay a state visit to somewhere and announced weeks ahead of time that, thanks, but I'll only be staying for half the time you've invited me for, and I'll eat your dinner but won't provide a return dinner, and I'm not interested in visiting the people you've invited me to visit, you'd be the first one to come along in high indignation wondering what we pay these royal freeloaders for. Works the same way for the president of a republic.

I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.

Nico 02-27-2008 02:10 PM

Quote:

I wonder if he has paid a visit to the Vatican yet
Ooooh yes and guess what? He brought with him, to the Vatican, Jean Marie Bigard. Who is Jean Marie Bigard: well he is a french "comic" who loves doing **** ,sex and sometimes anti-clerical jokes. Why he was there? Because he is a friend of the boss and he wanted to see the pope "for the fun".
Can you imagine that?

TheTruth 02-27-2008 02:14 PM

I just saw the evening news. Sarkozy and Carla are visiting Chad and guess what was shown : her, cuddling his face in the car. Can't she behave while on duty ?!! Philip will be pleased I'm sure ...

Al_bina 02-27-2008 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 734708)
No reportedly about it. Please check here. It has already been changed on the BRF website and reads as follows:

[shortened]

The word “reportedly” has been used due to the fact that the source of information was Daily Mail known for providing inaccurate information. Still I for one think that French President has got his reasons for cutting the visit short. There is no need to create a drama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734729)
It's official:

[shortened] in 10 months, the epitome of the "nouveau riche" behaviour including power, arrogance, money, sex, divorce and finally a wedding (in de Gaulle's office at the Elysee) with an ex model 2 months after this divorce, all that mess showed on TV day after day. It's just a little too much for a lot of people....
It's not only about his personnal life, the political situation is not the best .This little big man promised a lot of things....

Mr. Sarkozy has democratically been elected by French. Nothing else should be added to this.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734734)
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.

Far as I'm concerned, it has nothing to do with his wife. He's the one who made the decision, in the absence of a national crisis in France, to respond to the invitation to spend two days on a state visit by saying that he didn't want to do that but would only be visiting for one day. On a state visit, the return dinner is the opportunity for the guest to publicly thank the host; the visits to people and places of interest to the guest are part of the diplomacy involved in the visit. Unless his attitude to this visit is explicitly to do with his wife, then as far as I'm concerned she's irrelevant and he's still behaving disgracefully.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 02:22 PM

Does France have to be collapsing for it's President to go back? He may have to be present for other reasons that haven't been made public.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 02:27 PM

Unless this decision is to be seen as a public snub, the reasons (if they exist) should be made public - or at least, some good reason should be given, even if it isn't the actual one.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 02:29 PM

Why does he have to have a reason for going home early once the major business of the visit has been and gone?

Empress 02-27-2008 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734734)
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.

And why should the Queen of England stoop to his level?

Furthermore, he accepted a visit of 3 days and 2 nights. He has changed/cancelled part of the invitation that he accepted. It is not the same as being invited for 2 days, and saying, "I would really like to come, but I have other engagements.. may I come for 1 night instead?" He accepted, plans were made, (which in regards to a State Visit requires some serious planning and time, and which begins quite some time in advance) and now suddenly with no good reason that we know of, changes his mind? It is rude, uncouth in any circle to put your hosts out like that, never mind in "higher circles" where considerable time and money has already been expended.

There is protocol, never mind good manners, which indicate that a reason should be given, and should be a good one, when a visit is modified or cancelled. and the "business" of the visit might very well have gone on, and will now have to be squashed into a shorter time period.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 02:37 PM

Who's asking the Queen to do anything? Whats all this about stooping to a level? Am I being thick here? Has he ripped off a baby's head and fashioned it into a brooch? Has he eaten small dogs? Has he ordered the deaths of 1000s? Because I missed that. And I also missed the canonisation of the Queen which meant only the purest are allowed to speak her name.

TheTruth 02-27-2008 02:38 PM

Exactly Empress. If you agree to go, then you must do everything to keep this engagement in the state it was planned. Engagements that were made after should be canceled or moved to another day since you had given your agreement for the first. Imagine if people around the world behaved like he did.

BeatrixFan 02-27-2008 02:40 PM

And how do you know it wasn't planned for just 2 days?

Nico 02-27-2008 02:54 PM

From the BBC, in december 2007

BBC NEWS | UK | State visit for French president

The British monarchy website has been updated yesterday.

Empress 02-27-2008 02:55 PM

Because originally it was on the BRF and several other websites as 26-28 march

Elspeth 02-27-2008 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734756)
Why does he have to have a reason for going home early once the major business of the visit has been and gone?

The major business of a state visit is the visit itself. Otherwise a private meeting would be sufficient. It's a matter of diplomacy, and the relationship between Britain and France isn't the firmest one around. If one head of state decides to deliver a public snub like this to another, it isn't going to help matters. Heck, George Bush climbed into white tie and tails for the Queen's visit last year in recognition of the "special relationship" between the two countries, and it was the first time in his presidency he'd done so. That gesture of respect does actually mean something. Equally, a gesture of studied indifference or even contempt also means something, and that's what Sarkozy is doing.

CasiraghiTrio 02-27-2008 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734734)
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.

That would be really sad if true. I hope you are wrong because it wouldn't speak well of Buckingham Palace if they would intentionally snub a president's wife simply because of her age or profession or whatever.

I mean, goodness knows Buckingham Palace has had many opportunities to be caddy in the past, and often for better reasons than that Madame Sarkozy is a model and singer! So if you are right in this case, it would show them in a most negative light in my opinion.

I hope the real reasons are more mundane, perhaps due to a scheduling conflict or some other oversight.

Alison20 02-27-2008 03:46 PM

The Queen would never snub the wife of the President of France. Goodness, over the decades that she has been Queen, she has courtiously and formally met Presidents, and their wives/husbands, from just about everywhere in the world. And some of them have been very rum people!

A State Visit (if this is what was planned) is always of 3 days and 2 nights. I find it unbelievable (like Elspeth) that it should be changed/shortened at such short notice. I cannot believe it was at the request of Buckingham Palace - that sort of thing just does not happen there! So it must have been President Sarkozy's decision. I find it without parallel between friendly countries. :-(

COUNTESS 02-27-2008 04:33 PM

In the overall scheme of things noithing in life will change. This is all so unimportant. Beatrix Fan, I love you and your turn of a phrase. You see this for what it is.

Nico 02-27-2008 04:58 PM

Quote:

You see this for what it is.
And it's totally wrong.
As The truth already said:just spend some days here in France and you'll uderstand very quikly why we are so fed up with them...
But it's always interesting to see a different point a view from abroad, and i respect that...

Al_bina 02-27-2008 05:13 PM

Allow to remind once again that Mr. Sarkozy has been elected by the same Frenchmen, who are fed up now with him and his new wife.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734762)
And how do you know it wasn't planned for just 2 days?

State visits follow the same basic schedule and have done for decades.

Madame Royale 02-27-2008 05:16 PM

Quote:

the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.
Ugh, wrong! It doesn't help that a whirlwind relationship then makes her First lady, but you're quite wrong if you think that the principle reason.

Quote:

But French people are like that, don't forget we cut the head of our beloved King Louis XVI :biggrin:
Listen to The Truth. She's on to something here...hehe.

TheTruth 02-27-2008 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 734845)
Allow to remind once again that Mr. Sarkozy has been elected by the same Frenchmen, who are fed up now with him and his new wife.

Yes, you're right Al Bina (can't talk for me, not allowed to vote yet :biggrin:). But French people are like that, don't forget we cut the head of our beloved King Louis XVI :biggrin:. I believe a man/woman can't show his/her true self without being at power. Now that he is, we can start seeing what he really is.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COUNTESS (Post 734828)
In the overall scheme of things noithing in life will change. This is all so unimportant. Beatrix Fan, I love you and your turn of a phrase. You see this for what it is.

Actually, it isn't. We don't have that friendly a relationship with France, especially at the level of the man in the street, and the deliberate snubbing of our head of state by theirs isn't going to help matters.

Nico 02-27-2008 05:31 PM

Quote:

Allow to remind once again that Mr. Sarkozy has been elected by the same Frenchmen, who are fed up now with him and his new wife.
He was chosen "only" by a part of the nation (53%) (the other part was fed up with him looong before the election:rofl:).
He has been elected with a programm, some good ideas, a lot of promises and the image of the father of a pretty family...10 months later: a big mess in all the levels. A lot of people are quite disapointed and think they were fooled.That's all

TheTruth 02-27-2008 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 734853)
Actually, it isn't. We don't have that friendly a relationship with France, especially at the level of the man in the street, and the deliberate snubbing of our head of state by theirs isn't going to help matters.

But fortunately people are not as undiplomatic as Mr. President can be. I love the English and most of the time they like us too :biggrin:. It's not Sarkozy who will take this away from the people although I'm still anticipating this meeting :rolleyes:.

Nico 02-27-2008 05:45 PM

Quote:

I love the English and most of the time they like us too
Can't agree more...:flowers:
I'm looking forward for my annual English break this summer :wub:

Elspeth 02-27-2008 06:07 PM

Well, let's not get into politics here, because Mr Sarkozy's domestic policies don't have anything to do with the state visit, so they're off topic here.

However unpopular he might be at home nowadays, he's still the democratically elected French head of state.

I just hope he isn't pulling this stunt in the hopes of getting Brownie points at home by thumbing his nose at the Queen.

Is this curtailment of his visit getting any publicity in France? Just wondering how people are reacting.

Martha 02-27-2008 06:21 PM

It´s her first State visit for Carla Bruni.

Nico 02-27-2008 06:22 PM

Quote:

Is this curtailment of his visit getting any publicity in France? Just wondering how people are reacting
Not a word in the "serious" press like "Le Monde" or "Le Figaro", some very small lines on the net though.
The visit is sometimes commented by some TV news but always in the "Carla debuts" point of view.

Moonmaiden23 02-27-2008 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 734737)
Ooooh yes and guess what? He brought with him, to the Vatican, Jean Marie Bigard. Who is Jean Marie Bigard: well he is a french "comic" who loves doing **** ,sex and sometimes anti-clerical jokes. Why he was there? Because he is a friend of the boss and he wanted to see the pope "for the fun".
Can you imagine that?


My God...if I wasn't more familiar with your posts and with how intelligent you are I would think you were making this up....seriously...how embarrassing. I am sure His Holiness was..."sous le charme?" is that how they say it??

Just embarrassing.

Moonmaiden23 02-27-2008 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 734734)
I'm sorry, I disagree. When the Queen next goes to France, that's an opportunity to repay the favour. I think the objection to his visit is nothing to do with Mr Sarzoky, it's because he's married a model and that's too ridiculous for words. Look at the negative statements that are already surfacing about Madame Sarzoky as if she should sit in a dark room in a burkah and never be seen. He's been invited to visit Britain, he is visiting Britain. He is bringing his wife. He isn't spending a week, he's spending a couple of days. Where's the problem in that? I think all this "discourteous" stuff is just an excuse, the real reason people seem to be against the man is that he's married a pretty young wife.


Oh my God...are you serious?? Jealous of his "pretty young wife?!" First of all Ms Bruni is not so young. But I digress. I have no problem with her status as a model. It's her rancid and sordid past that gives pause-at least for me-and the fact that she doesn't seem to have a clue at how ridiculous she makes the President look. If Sarkozy had married Petra Nemcova I'd be the first here to gush and congratulate him. She is a gorgeous and truly young woman. But the President of the glorious French Republic has chosen for his first lady an unapologetic and fickle adulteress, and he has apparently chosen her on the rebound. She doesn't help his image at all and she doesn't represent France well at all.

I would have more respect for a meter maid who knew how to carry herself and be an asset to her country.

COUNTESS 02-27-2008 08:52 PM

Is being a "fickle adultress" the crime, just an adultress would be all right? How is it that some adultery is okay, if you apologize? Long standing adultery is okay, but on the rebound is out? Just trying to understand.

Elspeth 02-27-2008 09:46 PM

Madame Sarkozy's characteristics aren't relevant to this thread; please let's not get off topic into an insult-fest against her.

Lady Marmalade 02-28-2008 11:16 AM

It is like watching an episode of Dynasty or something with these two. They are making for great entertainment. :-)

I, for one, cannot wait for this visit!!!! I am serious about that. I am sure she will behave like a lady and her use of royal etiquette will be nothing short of exact and precise. I do think President Sarzoky will allow any incidents to occur.

Skydragon 02-28-2008 02:48 PM

I will wait and see how she behaves here on the visit, rather than pull her apart without good reason.

With regard to the shortening of the visit, I have not heard any reports of HM having hysterics over it, so whatever reason they gave appears to have been perfectly reasonable to their hostess!

Empress 02-28-2008 02:51 PM

It's doubtful in the extreme that we would ever hear of HM disappoving of another head of state. The closest she's ever come to my knowledge was that hysterically funny disapproving look she gave Bush on her visit here.

Skydragon 02-28-2008 03:14 PM

Having read some of the negative comments on here, I feel really sorry for her. I am sure she will behave with impeccably good manners and be an absolute credit to her country.:curtsey:

BeatrixFan 02-28-2008 03:24 PM

Hear hear Skydragon. I rather like Madame Sarkozy and hope she silences her critics with grace and elegance which I'm sure she's capable of. I think some people need to follow the excellent example Her Majesty will no doubt set in welcoming a Head of State and his wife.

CasiraghiTrio 02-28-2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 734870)
I just hope he isn't pulling this stunt in the hopes of getting Brownie points at home by thumbing his nose at the Queen.

Is it possible? :huh:
Is the Queen unpopular in France? Why would he have brownie points for snubbing her?
I don't imagine the Queen having anything like the unpopularity of Bush, the snubbing of whom the former Madame Sarkozy had brownie points, I think.
But I have no idea of what are the general feelings toward Her Majesty in France.... so I am curious about the response. ;)

ysbel 02-28-2008 10:38 PM

I admit cutting out the last day leaves a bad taste in my mouth. These diplomatic visits are all about the social graces and rituals of friendship. To cut the day when the French president was supposed to repay the Queen's hospitality seems the height of bad manners. They may have worked it out between themselves but this visit is not just a private visit from Sarkozy to Elizabeth Mountbatten-Windsor, these two people are Heads of State and they are in fact doing what they are paid to do which is represent their country when they attend these things.

And for France to say, I will come to your party and I know its customary for me to give you a party in return but I'm just not going to do it, this seems the height of rudeness.

So if the visit is public and on the taxpayer's dime, the reason for cutting it short should be made public too.

Madame Royale 02-28-2008 11:33 PM

Quote:

hope she silences her critics with grace and elegance
Or, alternatively, a banjo...:lol::rofl:

kimebear 02-28-2008 11:41 PM

I'm sure the new first lady is capable of being charming, she did get him to marry her rather quickly after all so she must have some social talent. It does seem a bit out of the ordinary that he is not repaying his hostess, but maybe they have plans to meet relatively soon on French soil instead.

Most likely the president and his wife will come bearing good will and good manners (and leave the guitar at home). ;)

Nico 02-29-2008 04:08 AM

Quote:

But I have no idea of what are the general feelings toward Her Majesty in France.... so I am curious about the response
The Queen is quite popular in France. As i already said the 2004 state visit was a hit. Most people have a great respect for her, we are very sensitive to the "Monarchy effect"...

ysbel 02-29-2008 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear (Post 735451)
I'm sure the new first lady is capable of being charming, she did get him to marry her rather quickly after all so she must have some social talent.

Is this an insult disguised as a compliment, kimebear?

TheTruth 02-29-2008 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear (Post 735451)
I'm sure the new first lady is capable of being charming, she did get him to marry her rather quickly after all so she must have some social talent.

Lol, I think it was rather him who was willing to marry very quickly. He couldn't go on without having a first lady. Even if France has no law against a single President ruling, it's still not well seen to live alone in the Palais de l'Elysee. The problem of visiting other countries made him took the decision, I believe. India didn't allow him to come with Carla because they weren't married. She couldn't stay his girlfriend forever so he decided to marry her.

Elspeth 02-29-2008 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 735433)
Is it possible? :huh:
Is the Queen unpopular in France? Why would he have brownie points for snubbing her?
I don't imagine the Queen having anything like the unpopularity of Bush, the snubbing of whom the former Madame Sarkozy had brownie points, I think.
But I have no idea of what are the general feelings toward Her Majesty in France.... so I am curious about the response. ;)

It isn't so much the Queen herself as the Queen being the embodiment of Britain. Britain and France don't have that smooth a relationship, and it's quite popular in either country if their leaders can manage to deliver a put-down to the other.

CasiraghiTrio 02-29-2008 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 735681)
It isn't so much the Queen herself as the Queen being the embodiment of Britain. Britain and France don't have that smooth a relationship, and it's quite popular in either country if their leaders can manage to deliver a put-down to the other.

Ah yes, that makes more sense.

Well, I am eager for the state visit all the same, because I think this will be the new Madame Sarkozy's first such visit, and it will be interesting to see how she handles it. So far the only experience of her as first lady has been of a very unofficial nature. I hope she handles herself better than the former Mme. I was never much impressed by the former, although her snub against Bush was well done, imo, hehe. :biggrin:

Val3275 02-29-2008 03:25 PM

The President and Mme Sarkozy are on their way back from an official visit to South Africa, the first state visit for her.
From what I have seen and read, she was a fine first lady.
I am starting to get eager for the state visit as well... :rolleyes:

Nico 02-29-2008 03:37 PM

Quote:

because I think this will be the new Madame Sarkozy's first such visit
Yes and not.The presidential couple is currently in South Africa for an official visit. She's doing her duty quite well, very discreet. The only odd thing is her "total black" wardrobe (4 or 5 outfits during the first day of the visit, only in black...). She visited an Aids clinic and apparantly she wants to do some humanitarianism (is that the correct word?)duties...

Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against her. I am against the "speedy Sarkozy" method and all the media fuss around it. She's pretty, she'll wear some nice haute couture dresses, we 'll have some nice photos and she 'll become the glamorous face of Sarkozy's presidency. But sorry to say that but it's a little bit too "nouveau riche" for me. We need a president, not a Rock star...

CasiraghiTrio 02-29-2008 11:32 PM

^Thanks, Nico. I just saw something on reuters via google about the south africa visit. But is the south africa visit, while certainly official, technically a state visit? She does look very casual, the hair in her face. She is so pretty though. Nay, gorgeous. :flowers:

Madame Royale 02-29-2008 11:37 PM

Quote:

We need a president, not a Rock star...
Wonderfully put...:flowers:

kimebear 03-01-2008 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel (Post 735540)
Is this an insult disguised as a compliment, kimebear?

Its neither an insult nor a compliment as I have no personal knowledge of the new First Lady. My observation stems strictly from a logical assumption that men normally do not propose to women they do not find charming.

larlincol7 03-06-2008 11:36 AM

Queen and President
 
Her Britannic Majesty was brought up from birth to serve and represent her nation; that she has done with dignity. French People who are alarmed at M. Sarkozy must realize he is an elected official; like our President of the United States. They have a chance to throw him out of office in five years. What dignity is there in an elected official? They are politicians! They live for ego and to be reelected. God Bless the great British People who cherish the splendour of their ancient monarchy.God Save the Queen!

Nico 03-10-2008 05:12 PM

A little preview perhaps?

Elysee palace tonight, state dinner in honor of the president of Israel

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Highly glamorous. That's the goal after all....:cool:

Ah la la can't wait for the 26th:rolleyes:

Nico 03-19-2008 06:21 PM

:whistling:The programme is arrived!
Media Centre > Event highlights > French State Visit, March 2008

Two big points for me:

-The presidential couple will be greeted by The Pow and the Doc at Heathrow. (Good news, but i assume we can expect some more or less tasteful articles from Mr Kay and his happy brigade from our favorite newspaper. In France too, by the way, we will see some nasty comments about this meeting, for sure :ermm:).

-As expected no return dinner. Ouch:ohmy:

Nico 03-21-2008 02:47 PM

Ready to fall off your chair?:biggrin:

From the official website of the french presidency Elysee.fr | Présidence de la République

Programme of the state visit

26th march

"Déjeuner offert par Sa Majesté la Reine ELIZABETH II et Sa Majesté Royale le Duc d'Edimbourg, en l'honneur de M. le Président de la République et Madame Carla SARKOZY"

"Lunch offered by her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II and his Royal Majesty the duc of Edimburg...."

Well one mistake...ok


But..

27th

"Arrivée de M. le Président de la République et Madame Carla SARKOZY pour le dîner à Guildhall. Accueil par M. David LEWIS, Lord-Maire de Londres, ainsi que par Le Prince RICHARD, Duc de Gloucester et la Princesse ALICE, Duchesse de Gloucester"

"Dinner at the Guildhall. The President and Mrs Sarkozy will be greeted by the Lord Mayor, the Prince Richard, Duc of Gloucester and Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester"(oh really?:ghost:)

ewwwww:lol:

Mmmm and our protocol service is "one of the best in the world" mmmmm:rofl:

Elspeth 03-21-2008 05:17 PM

Maybe it's just as well that this visit won't be lasting all that long or we could end up with the whole royal family being rechristened and retitled.:eek:

TheTruth 03-21-2008 05:43 PM

Oh my .... Now, I'm more than ashamed of my country. Seriously. If they can't even put their title right and see that they actually named a dead in the people to meet, I wonder how it will turn out.

Perhaps they expected Princess Alice to resuscitate for Easter ...

Madame Royale 03-21-2008 07:50 PM

One starts thinking perhaps this administration is making a deliberate show of contempt for this visit. Having agreed to it begrudgingly.

I kind of wish Her Majesty suddenly came down with the "flu".

Claire 03-25-2008 11:57 AM

I see the itenary for tomorrow has been release, but not the details of who is going to the state banquet. Aren't those details normally realeased?

BeatrixFan 03-25-2008 12:26 PM

We never usually get told who will be at the banquet aside from the Queen and the DoE. Usually Charles and Camilla, Anne and Alexandra.

HMQueenElizabethII 03-25-2008 12:33 PM

Well, just by Thursday or Friday we would know. As you may have forget the use of the Court Circular on the British Monarchy site, it would help all for that issue.

Nico 03-25-2008 04:31 PM

I'ts coming indeed...

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Some stuff about the visit:

-Mrs Sarkozy will be dressed by Dior.
-All the "Sarkozy Sirens" will be present: Rama Yade, minister of human rights, Michelle Alliot Marie, minister of interior and the gorgeous Rachida Daty, minister of jutice.
-Mr Sarkozy will meet at Buckingham Place, in the audience cabinet of the Queen, some members of the british politic life.
-Mr Sarkozy is the first french head of state since the Emperor Napoleon III in 1855 to be welcomed at Windsor for a state visit (The Chiracs visit in 2004 was a "special visit", not a state one).

Nico 03-25-2008 05:06 PM

It's fresh, it's tasteful, it's the daily Mail!

One's guests from hell: Chippy president Sarkozy and his wife with a racy past pay a visit to the Queen | the Daily Mail


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