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Muhler 02-04-2015 03:54 PM

Kritik af Schackenborg Fonden: Det handler om at redde Joachims økonomi - Royale |

BT has an article about the Scackenborg Foundation that now owns Schackenborg after Joachim sold the manor.
I noticed the article earlier today but I have been hesitant to post is as no other media has picked up on this and because BT lately has run a number of critical articles about the DRF that may be somewhat tainted.

Now the main parties in the Foundation are three very rich and in the world of commerce very influential families. These families have personal connections to the DRF and to Joachim in particular who counts these families among his circle of friends.
The families are: The Ecco family (the quality shoe), the Danfoss family (pumping systems) and the Lego family.
The Ecco family found the money for the puchase of Schackenborg from their own (very deep) pockets while the Lego and Danfoss families transferred the money from their own beneficiary foundations. Such foundations are tax deductable.

Now the pupose of the Schackenborg Foundation wast to use Schackenborg and the estate for purposes benefiting the common good. However, so far there are no concrete plans for opening the manor for some sort of public use or to open the park or estate for some sort of public use.
That has been criticized by an MP, Per Clausen, who is a member of the Unity List (extreme left wing). Per Clausen does not feel that money from beneficiary foundations should go to bail out Joachim and that he suspects might be the case here.
A professor (there are further details about him) Bent Greve believes this may have been more a case of influential families basically buying influence, status and through the circle around the DRF gain access to the influential network association themselves with the DRF.

- I do not quite agree. Neither of these three families need the DRF, even though they certainly don't mind the added PR it's not that important for them. And these families are notoriously discreet in such away that they are virtually unknown by the public even though they are all multi-billionaires. I don't think they want to trade that for a Grand Cross.
It's IMO more a relationship like that the late Mærsk McKinney Møller had with the DRF. I.e. they offered Joachim a very good deal rather than pressuring him to sell at an even lower price on the open market. Akin like an "old boys network". That they channeled the money for the purchase and establishing of the Schackenborg Foundation from other foundations is hardly surprising, that's tax-speculation.

Rudolph 03-13-2015 02:15 PM

Danish RF annual expenditure report for 2014

Extracts from the annual report - Annual report · The Royal House of Denmark 2014

Muhler 03-13-2015 02:17 PM

:previous: Thanks.

Seems there are enough money in the piggy bank for various representations and larger events.

Muhler 03-15-2015 12:03 PM

Dronningen bruger forsvarets fly som taxa - Ekstra Bladet

It's a quiet day so Ekstra Bladet are having a go at the DRF again.
With their journalist Jan Körner as author, who time and time again have been caught with his pants down in regards to getting the fects right in his articles about the DRF not to mention putting a slant on the article that are often downright silly. As a consequence even EB's readers don't take him serious.

Anyway, Jan Körner has dug up that the military last year transported members of the DRF around for a total of 3.4 million DKK, of that amount the military should in any case pay 2.7 million DKK. (Jan Körner does not specify exactly what he means with that, so presumably it's expenses for material and crews.
Anyway, our reporter lists two examples of what in his mind clearly must be superflous use of military vehicles:
1. June she attended an inauguration of a new bishop in the town of Ribe. Ribe is located on the west coast of Jutland. That cost: 82.959 DKK.
She flew there and back presumably. - (Ribe is located some 250 km from Copenhagen, so the trip must have taken some four hours back and forth).

23. She flew to the town of Viborg in central Jutland, also for the inauguration of a new bishop (QMII is head of the state church). That again is a distance of some 250 km and she flew to the nearby air station Karup (Where the EH101 helicopters are stationed) and was flown back later. The price for that was 78.899 DKK.

On top of that she hitched a ride from the same air station, Karup, back to Copenhagen on 26. January. She had no official business that day.
The price for that was 18.734 DKK. (That was probably a small Fennec, judging from the cost).

And again 10. October she hitched a ride back to Copenhagen from Aarhus, where she opened a museum, at the price of 40.535 DKK.

In 2011 QMII went by helicopter to the wedding of Princess Nathalie in Berleburg. Berleburg is pretty far down in Germany and the trip costed 460.000 DKK (All expences included we may presume and not just fuel and pay).


Right, let's have a closer look at some details the Jan Körner tend to... miss.

Helicopter daily ferry officers from the Defence Command in Copenhagen to the Navy Operational Command in Aarhus - and then on to their base in Karup.
So the trip to Viborg and back would make no difference, they were going that direction anyway.
The same thing with the trip back from Aarhus, the helipcopter was going that way anyway.
Ribe is outside the normal route though, but the town is also a bit out of the way in regards to the main high ways and the drive would have taken some 3-3½ hours one way, not counting rushhour traffic.

Berleburg is a bit far, but then I'm not even sure there are regular flights to the nearest airport from Copenhagen and QMII would have had to drive a bit anyway. Which means that at least two vehicles would have had to be rented and for at least two days.

Another thing, which many of the comments points out, is that the pilots need flight hours anyway, so what is better? That they fly empty or with a passenger?
En101 costs IIRC around 30.000 DKK an hour to keep in the air, depending on the number of crew and task. That covers fuel, salary for the crew and maintenance afterwards. In contrast to the old Sikorsky's that could fly with a patch of gaffa-tape extra, the larger and more complicated EH101 demand more thorough maintenance.

Top government members are also eager users of the air force materiel, which Jan Körner omits to point out. But at leasts he admits that M&F don't seem to use the helicopters that often, they usually drive even if it' to the other end of the country. But then they are not turning 75, are they?

Nordic 03-15-2015 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1758744)
Dronningen bruger forsvarets fly som taxa - Ekstra Bladet

In 2011 QMII went by helicopter to the wedding of Princess Nathalie in Berleburg. Berleburg is pretty far down in Germany and the trip costed 460.000 DKK (All expences included we may presume and not just fuel and pay).

Berleburg is a bit far, but then I'm not even sure there are regular flights to the nearest airport from Copenhagen and QMII would have had to drive a bit anyway. Which means that at least two vehicles would have had to be rented and for at least two days.

I kind of agree with him about using helicopters for private visits such as the Berleburg wedding. Would perhaps be better to avoid that...

Could they use the train more? Not sure, but there is a royal carriage,
isn't there?

Duc_et_Pair 03-15-2015 01:22 PM

I don't know how it is regulated in Denmark, but in the Netherlands the King only -who is the head of state seven days a week and twenty-four hours a day- and Queen Máxima have unlimited use of transportation (road, air, train, water). For Princess Beatrix an exception has been made in 2013: she is allowed to continue use of state transportation when "it is efficient, for the security or for privacy".

In this case -like her godson Willem-Alexander- the Danish Queen is and remains head-of-state seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. So I think it is justified that she used a helicopter to attend a Berleburg wedding. She is a royal, let her have royal transportation at her disposal...


Muhler 10-04-2015 12:27 PM

Details about the annual Finance Bill (2016) is emerging. Among the details is the apanage to the DRF.
Kongehuset hæver 106,5 millioner kroner | Nyheder

Altogether the DRF will receive 106.5 million DKK = 16 million $ = 14.2 million € = 10.5 million £

That's an increase from this year of 700.000 DKK = 105.200 $ = 93.800 € = 69.300 £

Of those QMII will receive 79.5 million DKK = 11.9 million $ = 10.6 million € = 7.8 million £
That's an increase of 500.000 DKK = 75.100 $. = 67.000 € = 49.500 £
The rest of the DRF will share the remaining 200.000 DKK.

Of the 79.5 million DKK OMII gets 8 million DKK will go to PH. (1.2 million $ = 1.072.000 € = 792.000 £
And Benedikte will get 1.2 million DKK = 180.000 $ = 241.000 € = 118.000 £

Frederik gets 19.6 million DKK = 2.9 million $ = 2.2 million € = 1.9 million £
Of which Mary gets 2 million DKK = 300.000 $ = 268.100 € = 198.000 £

Joachim gets 3.5 million DKK = 526.000 $ = 469.200 € = 346.000 £
Our Marie is not allocated a specific sum.

Count Ingolf receive 1.6 million DKK = 240.400 $ = 214.400 € = 158.000 £

Countess Alexandra receive 2.3 million DKK = 345.600 $ = 308.000 € = 227.000 £

(All figures are slightly rounded).

The apanage will among other things cover expenses for representative duties and internal maintenance of the palaces.
And also transportation, secretaries, staff, clothing (also for the staff), furnishing, counseling and other non official things.

According to Danish Statistics (so it can't be more official!) the average Dane at the age of 41 earn 294.000 DKK a year = 44.185 $ = 39.413 € = 29.111 £
The average couple with two children earn 884.600 DKK = 132.946 $ = 118.588 € = 87.592 £
After various taxation that amounts to 338.300 DKK to spend = 50.843 $ = 45.351 € = 33.498 £
Figures and details about the average Dane here:

fortimo 10-04-2015 12:31 PM

Why get Countess Alexandra more than CP Mary? And Joachim get also more than the crownprincess... Strange...

eya 10-04-2015 12:39 PM

And why Marie don't?

Muhler 10-04-2015 12:55 PM

:previous: Our Marie doesn't get an allocated sum, presumably because it wasn't requested or wished for.

Joachim's apanage also cover Marie, and as Mary gets roughly 10 % of Frederik's apanage specifically allocated to her, that would amount to Marie getting 350.000 DKK.

Originally PH's apanage was unspecified, but after he went off to France and sulked it was decided that he was allocated about 10 % of QMII's apanage. Presumably it was decided to continue that with M&F lest Mary should run off one day to Tasmania and suck on her thumb...:tongue:

Duc_et_Pair 10-04-2015 12:58 PM

The Danes are very generous towards their (former) royals. For an example: in the Dutch system Prince Joachim, Princess Benedikte, Countess Alexandra and Count Ingolf would not have received any cent from the State.

The differences in the amounts between Mary, Alexandra and Joachim probably are caused by the costs for the housing and staff. Crown Princess Mary makes use of the "infrastructure" (the housing, the staff, etc.) which is already functioning for her husband, the Crown Prince. That makes her "cost component" lower than that of Countess Alexandra.

In Belgium we saw that the late Queen Fabiola had a higher dotation that Queen Mathilde. In the Netherlands former Queen Beatrix has a higher dotation than Queen Máxima. It is all logical as Queen Mathilde and Queen Máxima both make use of the "infrastructure" which is already there for their husbands.

Muhler 10-04-2015 01:27 PM

:previous: Interesting.

Under the Dutch system Joachim, our Marie and Benedikte wouldn't be working and not expected to be working by the public.
In other words we wouldn't see them except at the odd gala dinner.

Oddly enough Ingolf has rarely gotten heat from the public for getting his apanage, presumably because most people find it fair that he gets a compensation for not becoming king.

tommy100 10-04-2015 02:30 PM

I was just thinking that Muhler, all this talk about Alexandra getting an apanage and Count Ingolf still gets a fairly sizeable amount. I'm sure i'm fair in saying that Alexandra has done more for the monarchy in the past two decades than Ingolf has.
It certainly puts all the talk about why she got an apangage under a different light, you could argue a precedent had already been set in Ingolf getting an apanage after loosing his place in the RF.

Muhler 10-04-2015 03:01 PM

Yes, except that Ingolf didn't opt out of his position as the future heir had Knud become king.
He lost his position due to the change in the Constitution in 1953 and that wasn't his fault.

Alexandra opted out. After all she could have stayed married and kept up appearances. - Unhappy, yes, but still a full member of the DRF.
IMO this is more about the amount of work Alexandra is seen to do, rather than the size of the apanage she is getting.

AdmirerUS 10-04-2015 03:13 PM

That seems an overall bargain. Boston has a new bridge that cost $106 million and a couple of recently built Chicago bridges cost $3 - 13 million. Sometimes it helps me to relate costs to tangible items that also come out of taxes.

Muhler 10-04-2015 03:44 PM

:previous: The total cost of the monarchy was officially calculated a few years ago and everything, including apanage, upkeep of palaces (exterior) and parks, additional transportation and representation not covered by the DRF, the guards battalion of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment and the Royal Yacht was around 450 million DKK (Plus/minus 25 million, from my memory).
Security was not included in the calculation - for security reasons of course.

So the total yearly costs for the DRF: 450 million DKK = 62.7 million $ = 60.3 million € = 44.5 million £

To that comes additional local expenses when the DRF are on road tour.

Muhler 02-12-2016 08:08 AM

Summary of a Q&A in Billed Bladet #06, 2016.

Where a K. Jensen basically complains that Mary is using too much money on clothes.

We all have an opinion about that and the most interesting thing in Jon Bloch Skipper's reply is this little detail:
Of the total apanage to the CP-Couple of around 20 million DKK a year, about four million go to the so called "frame-amount", which among other things cover clothes, furnishing and other costs of a private matter - expenses that by the way is exempt from vat. and as such cost far less than what the rest of us pay.


- In other words the combined de facto salary (counting refunded vat) to M&F constitute around five million DKK - plus free housing, free transport and free food. And of course no income tax or tax on property and so on.
Five million DKK = 670.000 € = 520.000 £ = 754.000 $

Since M&F don't pay taxes I will roughly estimate that their combined salary is equivalent to around ten million DKK a year.
Then of course there is the income from private investments.

Muhler 02-26-2016 03:02 AM

Not sure if this should have been placed in a thread about Villa Joachim. (Calling the thread Emiliekildevej would perhaps be something of a mouthful for non-Danish-speakers... :tongue:)

Anyway, here is an article about the vat-exemption that includes the members of the DRF.

When J&M bought their new house, they added 76 square meters.
Looking at the papers it has emerged that J&M were refunded 852.571 DKK.
Including the bill for the rebuilding of the house.
That is more than half a million DKK more than over the the previous three years.

In other words in 2015, J&M bought goods and services worth more than four million DKK. While the average during the three years prior to that was 1.7 million DKK.

The economy-chief of the DRF replied in an e-mail: "Prince Joachim and Princess Marie have recently completed a rebuilding of their property on Emiliekildevej. The rebuilding has indeed meant that the expences were higher than usual. According to the law of Prince Joachim's apanage, vat of maximum 25 % of the apanage can be refunded, which was the case in 2015".

- Right, since practically everything here in DK has a vat of 25 %, we can conclude that J&M under normal circumstances have expenses for 1.7 million DKK = 252.000 $ = 180.000 £ = 228.000 €
Everything possible included apart from the odd icecream for the children.
To put it into persepctive: According to Danish Statistics (it can't be more official than that!) the average Danish couple with two children earn a total of 885.000 DKK and have a net disposal (after tax) of 338.000 DKK.
Read more about the average Dane here, in English: The average dane: Key Figures - Statistics Denmark

Now since Joachim's apanage constitute 3.4 million DKK a year, we can conclude they that spend half of that amount on goods and services. And that the rest cover expenses for official duties and salary for staff. - And presumably also a sum they put aside.
So in my estimate money is not the biggest concern J&M has. And it presumably wasn't either before the sale of Schackenborg.

Now, of course such articles are mean to infuriate the reader (It really is wrong the royals pay no vat :bang:). However, if they are to pay vat their apanage would naturally go up correspondingly. I mean who would be willing to suddenly pay 25 % more for your goods without compensation?

If I am to speculate, a guess would be that M&F have a relative personal expenditure of some 50 % more than J&M. They have four children, they travel a lot more, which require clothes and jewellery for Mary (Frederik just need a new suits and a couple of shoes once in a while), which can also be used privately. Also, it's my impression that M&F have a larger circle of "dining-friends" than J&M who basically only have 4-5 couples as "dining-friends". Then of course there are expenses for friends and not least family staying with them and going on the odd private holiday to Australia isn't exactly cheap either!
What do you say? Am I completely off the mark?

Muhler 03-26-2016 01:43 PM

The tabloid Ekstra Bladet is in these days embarking on a veritable crusade about how wasteful (and corrupt) the DRF is. Today it's Mary's turn:
Mary har tasker for 1,5 mio. - mindst – Ekstra Bladet

The writer Jan Körner... has by counting the number of different bags seen in photos of Mary since she became a CP and by calculating on an exchange rate of 6.6 DKK to one US Dollar (the exchange rate is very high these days BTW at some point to Dollar was down to a little less that 5 DKK) he has reached the conclusion that Mary has acquired bags for at the very least 1.5 million DKK.
Of course presents, discounts and so is not taken into consieration. Nor is the insane price for one bag Mary was presented to by Marie Chantal factored in.

It's interesting to glance at the comments. Those who comment on Ekstra Bladet can easily match those who comment on Daily Mail! But the majority don't seem impressed.

Well, I included this article here to show that TRF does not cover negative press. And with this I think I have wasted enough time on this.

Muhler 03-31-2016 09:02 AM

Ekstra Bladet has an article about the expenditure of the DRF in 2015, which they naturally manage to twist in a negative angle.

Røde tal hos Margrethe: Fødselsdagsfest kostede kassen – Ekstra Bladet

So let's look at the actual figures.

The Regent Couple and Benedikte received altogether 78.4 million DKK and on top of that came an additional income of 2.5 million DKK.

With all expenses paid there was a deficit of 4.2 million DKK.

The court writes in its report: In 2015 Her Majesty the Queen turned 75 and the birthday was celebrated at various events, which is reflected in the increase of representative costs.
On top of that there have been a number of expenses for renovations of buildings and furnishing".

The representative costs went up by 1.9 million DKK to 5.8 million DKK dur to the birthday.
The costs for modernization and maintenance were increased by 3.3 million DKK to a total of 4.2 million DKK.
They were very much spend of renovating a building at the Amalienborg complex and painting the windows at Fredensborg.

The around 100 employees under QMII received a salary of a total 49.4 million DKK, also covered by the apanage.

Of the apanage 10.2 million DKK is a so-called Frame-amount (basically the royal's salary) which are not earmarked for anything specific but are to be used for other purposes and expenses.

However the DRF had a net-saving of 20.4 million DKK, which has due to the deficit been reduced to 16.2 million DKK.

- In other words the budget is in minus for the 2015, but the fortune is still in plus. Something I think most families are familiar with.

As a thumb-rule:
9 DKK = 1 £.
6 DKK = 1 $.
7.5 DKK = 1 €.

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