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Empress 11-15-2007 03:14 PM

The Future of the Danish Monarchy
 
Frederik's suitability as King of Denmark is frequently debated here at the forums. We wish to allow people to discuss this topic, but at the same time, experience has taught us that it might be good to have some boundaries in place before we begin.

As always, we're interested in having opinions from all sides as long as they're backed up by facts or examples, and members from all countries are welcome to join the discussion.

We hope that you can stay on-topic in this thread. If you think there is the possibility of a new and interesting discussion arising from this discussion, but it is off-topic in this thread, please search for a thread, or open a new one. :flowers:

Please be polite, and avoid attacking other users as they are entitled to their opinions, no matter how you might feel about them. Everyone's opinions are equally valued by the moderating team.

As mentioned before, it helps to get an interesting debate going, if you give some examples or facts regarding Frederik’s suitability as king. The discussion stops fairly quickly if all we get are a few statements such as "Frederik will be a great king." or "Frederik will be a mediocre king." If you can expand on your opinions and share why you think as you do, it will lead to a more interesting and produictive discussion with less empty posts.

If you have a problem with anything or anyone in this thread, don't hesitate to contact a moderator, rather than conduct an open warfare in the thread and destroy other posters' enjoyment. :flowers:Always remember the rules.

That being said - here is some food for thought to get the discussion going:
  1. What particular instance has helped you to form your opinion regarding Frederik?
  2. Do you think that his education and experience thus far has helped learn what he must do as king?
  3. Do you think that having children of his own has helped him to become more mature and to really accept the role that he must play in the future of Denmark?
  4. If you have another topic that relates to Frederiks suitability to be king, please feel free to throw that in as well.
Please remember that this in not a thread to discuss Frederiks relationships past or present!

Please save us all trouble and read/follow the TRF Rules and FAQ

lyndaW 11-16-2007 08:47 PM

I (personally) think that Prince Frederick is a most reluctant Crown Prince, he would have been much happier if he had been either the second son or a Prince Consort. Prince Joachim would have been happier if he had been the elder...much more articulate, and does a lot of speaking engagements...but that is not how it worked out.
I think CP Frederick will do his duty, but personal happiness ?

agnessa 11-17-2007 11:15 AM

I think too that Joachim would have been better crown prince because for me it seems that Frederick doesn't want to be on spotlight so much. But I think that it's quite wrong give some deciocions to somebody who I don't know. Only times could show does Frederick is appropriate for his role or not!:smile:

bbb 11-17-2007 11:56 AM

personally i believe he is suited to be king. he seems well educated, caring,
even-tempered, good natured, soft hearted and kind. Good attributes for his job of doing his best for the Danish people. He was a frogman in the navy (which prince or not he had to pass the training and achieve on his own merits) which imo makes him daring, brave, strong willed and stout hearted. you have to be one of the toughest guys on the block to achieve the tasks to become a seal, again good qualities in a king. perhaps the complexity of a man that can "tear up" and be a loving human being while at the same time being able to kill everyone in the room with his bare hands makes him more attractive to me (he's my favorite) but i really think he's more than up to the job. i understand his reticence and shyness aren't assets but some of the most brilliant people i know aren't comfortable around people or attention but have done very well in business(just don't ask them to give a talk or accept an award, they'd give up their fortunes first).
perhaps that's the strength in having a supportive family, everyone pulls together and any short comings evens out.

Empress 11-17-2007 12:27 PM

I think perhaps if he had been raised in a more warm environment, it might have been more beneficial to the modern take on what a king should be. I think that he was raised in the old school way of royals, which might or might not help him in the future. Although it appears that he has taken that lesson to heart and is raising little Christian with a more hands on touch.

soCal girl 11-18-2007 08:57 PM

Out of all the future monarchs in Europe, I do feel that Frederik is the least prepared. He seems to have lightest agenda and doesn't look all that comfortable being in the spotlight. That being said, Frederik's confidence has been boosted considerably with Mary in the picture. I think being married and having a family has given him a sense of peace that he didn't have before. With Mary and his family by his side, I do believe he'll step up to the plate and become a King the Danes will be proud of. Perhaps he doesn't feel the need, whether that be right or wrong, to take charge and be assertive since Margrethe will most likely not abdicate.

Madame Royale 11-18-2007 09:49 PM

A very grounded indavidual, I think. Perhaps at times unsure of himself, but who can honestly say that they haven't had moments of self doubt in whatever capacity? And if they did it would surely be a blatant lie.

A warm and kind hearted man with evident leaderships kills (armed services training), a good knowledge of diplomacy and government proceedings, I think Frederik has exactly what it takes to be a successful and affectionately regarded Monarch.

The Danes (a very very great majority) have truly endeared themselves to him but the Dane's (from my personal expereinces in Denmark) are very supportive and rather protective of their immediate royal family. Not because there's any real need to protect their institution, but because there is a real affection held between the royal family and 'her' people. It's really quite lovely to see.

capricorninin 11-19-2007 12:06 AM

A lot of people rely on educational qualifications and work ethics to determine the suitability of the current crop of crown princes. While these criteria may work when you are looking at the business and political leaders, I find them really unreliable and unscientific for royals. The reasons being it is more to do with the whole family as a unit than one individual. I think the objective of most of the royal families apart from the welfare of the people is also to maintain the line of royal family in the next century. Not an easy task when democracy has captured a lot of people's imagination and a Royal's political role is being curbed. Forget the extended family, people are wary to fund even the regent's immediate family especially the spare heirs. Yes we all indulge the babies with oohs and aahs, but this is the honeymoon period. Would the general public really want to contribute to the lavish lifestyles of these youngsters when they are in their 30's. So most of the royal families are devising ways to curb any ill feeling which could be generated later on. We have Prince Sverre not getting courtesy of HRH. And Princess Isabella has been shielded away from the public marking the difference that though the Queen's Granddaughter, she will be a private citizen.

Coming to Denmark, Q.M and P.H have themselves maintained a light workload. This is evident as both have got time to pursue their hobbies and I doubt that this has to do with a lack of seriousness from either one of them. Even the other members of the team constitute of only Crown Princely Couple, Prince Joachim and Princess Benedickte, None of them are swamped with work.
I think the lack of seriousness which is perceived in Frederick is simply him not disturbing the status quo and sending a contradictory message to the general public. It is not that he never works or never steps up when it is evident Margarethe is suffering due to ill health. It just seems that the workload in Denmark comes in periods of blocks.

In my post I am not supporting the view that he is suitable for his job, not even that there are not a lot of unsuitable traits in him but rather that as a king he may turn out pretty decent. After all the reactions of a king may not come through backstage preparation but rather instinct. It will be only in history that we will know of how he fares for himself and his country.

UserDane 11-19-2007 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capricorninin (Post 694684)
Coming to Denmark, Q.M and P.H have themselves maintained a light workload. This is evident as both have got time to pursue their hobbies and I doubt that this has to do with a lack of seriousness from either one of them. Even the other members of the team constitute of only Crown Princely Couple, Prince Joachim and Princess Benedickte, None of them are swamped with work.
I think the lack of seriousness which is perceived in Frederick is simply him not disturbing the status quo and sending a contradictory message to the general public. It is not that he never works or never steps up when it is evident Margarethe is suffering due to ill health. It just seems that the workload in Denmark comes in periods of blocks.

I am rather curious to know what has given you the impression that the workloads of queen Margrethe, her husband and her sister are light? I have not heard that claim before and it is not something I would agree with. Yes, QM pursues some hobbies but it that indicative of a light workload generally? Actually, I think these 3 people are extremely active if you follow them. Now they are at an age where it is only fair to allow them some more slack in their schedules (not that I am sure they will take things easier...). Joachim runs his own estate and I don't think that any of us royalty viewers can make a fair judgement of his workload since the major part of it is out of the limelight.

As to Frederik's suitability as a regent, I have no worries. I was 13 when his mother became queen and I remember very well the discussions of whether this young woman would ever be able to fill her father's shoes; how uncomfortable she seemed in the spotlight, how she shuttered and seemed shy etc. Today, few Danes complaint about the queen. The joke here is that the republicans want a republic - and with 'Daisy' as the president. Her qualities as a regent has become increasingly evident over the years. My late grandmother (a fervent royalist) said to me that 'they said the same when Margrethe's father succeeded his own father'. And I think it is true that we tend to all look backwards and compare (mostly unfavourably for the 'newcomer').
Being a good regent is IMO very much an ongoing process where the regent should have good instincts and be able to react to the times he or she is regent is. It would have been lovely if Frederik had been the world's greatest speaker - but frankly I don't think that will have anything to do with his qualities as a king. I could wish that he would do more media supervised events - and that would be because I give in to the attitude that he is not seen doing events enough. An attitude which really annoys me because IMO everyone must know that travelling round, opening things etc. is not the royals' main work load; much like politicians it has to take place out of the media's spotlight. But in our super-surveillance world we, the onlookers, seem to demand tangible proof - pictures! - before we believe that our royals are worth their pay. Too bad really.
I have a feeling that both Frederik and Philippe of Belgien, two CPs who do not now comply with our media requirements and do not possess the immediate attractions which the public seems to deem necessary for coming regents, will one day prove themselves as very good kings of their respective countries. They may be 'low-key' compared to some of their 'colleagues' but that will not, I think, make them less suitable as kings.

happystupid 12-10-2007 01:46 PM

Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark rocking onstage with Led Zeppelin Jam
 
Hi everybody

I am kind of new at this, but i was wondering if you could give me your opinion on something. The title of the thread says it all. I know im not allowed to post things, thats not in english, but the again the rules say, you have to 'prove' your statements. Here is a link to a danish newspapers homepage. Kronprinsen gav den på mundharpe i Pumpehuset - iBYEN.dk

In the picture you can see the crown prince playing on a mouth-organ on stage with a band 8th of december 2007. In all honesty, the band is one of his favourite danish bands, who played a reunion gig for the CP and his fiancee in 2004, i think.

My questions are:
-Is that suitable for a CP?
-Does it give the impression of the CP as being more like regular folk? And is that a good thing?
-Should he just watch the concert in stead of participating?

regards
Mr happystupid

GlitteringTiaras 12-10-2007 02:16 PM

Hi MHS:smile: Welcome to the forums.


Quote:

My questions are:
-Is that suitable for a CP?
-Does it give the impression of the CP as being more like regular folk? And is that a good thing?
-Should he just watch the concert in stead of participating?


In my opinion, I believe it is perfectly fine for a Crown Prince or any royal for that matter to participate in an event such as the one Frederik recently took part of.

Second, it doesn't give me the impression that he is just a "regular guy." I have never thought of a royal being any different than you or I. The only difference is their job and title. Royals are human. They like to rock out just like the rest of us.

I hope that made some sense to you and again, welcome.:smile:

UserDane 12-10-2007 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happystupid (Post 703245)
My questions are:
-Is that suitable for a CP?
-Does it give the impression of the CP as being more like regular folk? And is that a good thing?
-Should he just watch the concert in stead of participating?

regards
Mr happystupid

Basically, I suppose we could ask the same for his mother and grandfather; is it suitable for queen Margrethe to be lying on floors making drawings for ballet performances or was it suitable for the late king Frederik IX to conduct an orchestra? :smile:
Personally, I am OK with Frederik trýing out his talents on stage - just like his mother and grandfather :smile:

Vanesa 12-11-2007 05:22 PM

Well...I know you'll hate me when I said it, but being a Prince is not only being handsome. Crownprince Frederick is awfully handsome, and I accept that I had a great interest on him because of it...:wub::blush: But what a Heir needs is brains and doing things by himself (or herself, if it is a Princess). Anyone will help Danish Heir with his tasks as a King when he must sit in the throne..and having a beatiful wife that certain people admires for she is a nice face and have nice clothes wouldn't help , either.

Prince Frederick must work harder to make his speechs improving. Yes; he is already 40 and at 40, few people could change. But his situation is different to the other 40 years old people. He is representating his Nation. So, it will be nothing bad if he tries harder to speak a little better in public.

Our present Royal generation is excedinly handsome..but I'd rather like they were ugly and more equiped to face the problems who brought our modern world.

Vanesa.

Jo of Palatine 12-17-2007 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanesa (Post 703817)
Well...I know you'll hate me when I said it, but being a Prince is not only being handsome. Crownprince Frederick is awfully handsome, and I accept that I had a great interest on him because of it...:wub::blush: But what a Heir needs is brains and doing things by himself (or herself, if it is a Princess). Anyone will help Danish Heir with his tasks as a King when he must sit in the throne..and having a beatiful wife that certain people admires for she is a nice face and have nice clothes wouldn't help , either.

Prince Frederick must work harder to make his speechs improving. Yes; he is already 40 and at 40, few people could change. But his situation is different to the other 40 years old people. He is representating his Nation. So, it will be nothing bad if he tries harder to speak a little better in public.

Our present Royal generation is excedinly handsome..but I'd rather like they were ugly and more equiped to face the problems who brought our modern world.

Vanesa.

AFAIK the Danes like him and that's all that counts. :flowers:

crisscross1 12-17-2007 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 705818)
AFAIK the Danes like him and that's all that counts. :flowers:

And that is all that matters. It's obvious that C P Frederik is shy and prefers to stay out of the limelight. What is wrong with that, we don't know how much work he does behind closed doors, I'm sure he gives 100% when he is in the privacy of his own office. Being born a royal doesn't mean that he was born to speak fluently and with confidence in public. I have been incredibly shy all my life and changing just because others want it is easier said than done. :flowers:

Lichtenstein 12-19-2007 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisscross1 (Post 706002)
And that is all that matters. It's obvious that C P Frederik is shy and prefers to stay out of the limelight. What is wrong with that, we don't know how much work he does behind closed doors, I'm sure he gives 100% when he is in the privacy of his own office. Being born a royal doesn't mean that he was born to speak fluently and with confidence in public. I have been incredibly shy all my life and changing just because others want it is easier said than done. :flowers:

Not really wrong but: it is his job to stay in the limelight and to deliever speeches and to be able to make a clear point! Or, in other words: that's what he is paid for since it is part of the job description of a crown prince.

Binz 12-19-2007 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichtenstein (Post 706543)
Not really wrong but: it is his job to stay in the limelight and to deliever speeches and to be able to make a clear point! Or, in other words: that's what he is paid for since it is part of the job description of a crown prince.

Hm maybe, though what are the other parts or the job description? Btw where can I find this job description?

Marengo 12-19-2007 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 705818)
AFAIK the Danes like him and that's all that counts. :flowers:

No that is not all that counts IMO. Though it comes in handy if people ´like´ their monarch/royal it is not a job requirement. It doesn´t say anything on how a royal does his/her job, just that he/she is likable. But as reigning royalty do not participate in some sort of popularity programme but actually are expected to contribute something to society and represent their country both at home as abroad I think there are much more things than just somebody´s likability that count.

And besides that, with arguments like that (the Danish taxpayer likes him so why would anybody else discuss it) a discussion will be largely impossible here, which is not something we (the moderators) would like.

crisscross1 12-19-2007 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichtenstein (Post 706543)
Not really wrong but: it is his job to stay in the limelight and to deliever speeches and to be able to make a clear point! Or, in other words: that's what he is paid for since it is part of the job description of a crown prince.

Yes but, if he had the choice would he be a crown prince. The job was thrust upon him because of who his mother is not necessarily a job he would have chosen for himself. We as 'normal' people get to choose the career paths we take in life, maybe he would prefer to be a postman or a doctor or ? who knows what. JMO :flowers:

Lichtenstein 12-19-2007 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisscross1 (Post 706584)
Yes but, if he had the choice would he be a crown prince. The was a job that was thrust upon him because of who his mother is not necessarily a job he would have chosen for himself. We as 'normal' people get to choose the career paths we take in life, maybe he would prefer to be a postman or a doctor or ? who knows what. JMO :flowers:

Frankly if he does not like to do what is expected from him then he'll have to quit. Both country and family will survive the loss.

Quote:

Hm maybe, though what are the other parts or the job description? Btw where can I find this job description?
Okay, advertisements for a job as crown prince are rarely found so it's a bit difficult to find the job description. But I'm sure anyways that standing in the public focus and representing the country is one of the main duties.

UserDane 12-19-2007 04:09 PM

I'm having mixed feelings about this discussion of Frederik's abilities to speak in public; the other day I watched one of these 'the year in the royal family' programmes which the TV stations make each December. They showed again the clip where he told about his newborn daughter in front of a lot of media at Rigshospitalet. They pushed for a date of presentation of the newborn and he just winked at them and said 'fetch your sleeping bags'. He can be eloquent, charming and witty when he deals with the media; he definitely has his bad days as well and of course he has to work to eliminate those as far as he can. But I don't think he is only a bad public speaker.

crisscross1 12-19-2007 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lichtenstein (Post 706589)
Frankly if he does not like to do what is expected from him then he'll have to quit. Both country and family will survive the loss.

I don't think anyone is able to say that he doesn't like what he does because no one really knows what his feelings are about his role except his family and close friends. As for suggesting that he quit, some days perhaps he would love to but I don't think that is an option. The public and media would do as well to appreciate the fact that it takes all sorts to make the world go round, he is who he is and that's ok. :flowers: JMO

highpriestess 12-20-2007 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crisscross1 (Post 706584)
Yes but, if he had the choice would he be a crown prince. The job was thrust upon him because of who his mother is not necessarily a job he would have chosen for himself. We as 'normal' people get to choose the career paths we take in life, maybe he would prefer to be a postman or a doctor or ? who knows what. JMO :flowers:

He has had 40 years to deal with the position he's born into. Jeez, it's about time for him and his defenders to quit this excuse for his lack of productivity. There's far worse fate than being born a crown prince. He's paid generously and enjoys all the previlleges of his position while working only one or two days a week. There are millions of people would switch place with him.

As for likability, it's not enough to be liked by Danes. It's a monarch's job to represent his country. He will need to be liked or at least respected by non-Danes. So far, judging from his light-weight overseas trips and very few participation at international events, he appears to have very little stature outside of Denmark. This will hurt his position in the long run.

JessRulz 12-20-2007 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpriestess (Post 706886)
....As for likability, it's not enough to be liked by Danes. It's a monarch's job to represent his country. He will need to be liked or at least respected by non-Danes. So far, judging from his light-weight overseas trips and very few participation at international events, he appears to have very little stature outside of Denmark. This will hurt his position in the long run.

I agree that it is a monarch's job to represent his/her country, but why is it necessary for he/she to be liked by people from countries that are not their own? They won't be decided whether to keep or abolish the Danish monarchy, so why does a monarch need to be respected by non-Danes?

As for his stature outside of Denmark, IMO many of the European royals don't have a lot a stature outside of their home countries - the exemptions being the Spanish royals, the British royals and the Monaquese royals.

WindsorIII 12-20-2007 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JessRulz (Post 706905)
I agree that it is a monarch's job to represent his/her country, but why is it necessary for he/she to be liked by people from countries that are not their own? They won't be decided whether to keep or abolish the Danish monarchy, so why does a monarch need to be respected by non-Danes?

As for his stature outside of Denmark, IMO many of the European royals don't have a lot a stature outside of their home countries - the exemptions being the Spanish royals, the British royals and the Monaquese royals.

Agreed. I love to follow the royal families and try to keep up on the latest news when I can, but most of friends here would never even know who Prince Frederick, Princess Mary, Prince Philippe, Princess Letizia, etc. etc even are and moreover could never name what countries they are from.

Generally people know Prince Charles, William, Harry, Diana, Camilla, and the British Royals, but for the others its mostly a National thing and outside their own countries there is not much stature. In fact without the entourages, and if they put on jeans and a t-shirt, Frederick and Mary could go unnoticed in many places.

Alisa 12-20-2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpriestess (Post 706886)
As for likability, it's not enough to be liked by Danes. It's a monarch's job to represent his country. He will need to be liked or at least respected by non-Danes. So far, judging from his light-weight overseas trips and very few participation at international events, he appears to have very little stature outside of Denmark. This will hurt his position in the long run.

I beg to differ.The only people who Frederik should be worried about pleasing are the ones who maintain his position as Crown Prince, Danes. The fact of the matter is that Denmark does not play significant role on the international scene. It is a small country with little over 5 million people. Moreover Frederik's role in international events like many royals is largely ceremonial. He isn't a diplomat nor is he a politician who has the ability to enact legislature that would affect Danes let alone people from other countries.

GlitteringTiaras 12-20-2007 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa (Post 707028)
I beg to differ.The only people who Frederik should be worried about pleasing are the ones who maintain his position as Crown Prince, Danes.


Why? Then what is the point of Frederik coming to NYC, twice already, promoting/backing the Danish design and products? Frederik does have a position in the world, in which his actions are of importance. If he were not viable for Denmark to the rest of the world he wouldn't make the effort. Frederik's position in the world is not as insular, rather isolated, to Denmark as you think.

What is the point if he flys to another country, desperately seeking a position on the IOC, or visits the EU headquarters? If he's nonchalant (or dare I say "doesn't care") about his position or that of Denmark's on the world scene then why are the Danes paying for his lifestyle (because he looks cute in a suit? Come on...), or to be frank about it, his status/title/position in life? At this point, if he doesn't care, there really is no need for a monarchy after Margrethe.


Echoing Marengo's sentiments:

Quote:

No that is not all that counts IMO. Though it comes in handy if people ´like´ their monarch/royal it is not a job requirement. It doesn´t say anything on how a royal does his/her job, just that he/she is likable. But as reigning royalty do not participate in some sort of popularity programme but actually are expected to contribute something to society and represent their country both at home as abroad I think there are much more things than just somebody´s likability that count.

And besides that, with arguments like that (the Danish taxpayer likes him so why would anybody else discuss it) a discussion will be largely impossible here, which is not something we (the moderators) would like.

royalone3 12-21-2007 06:49 PM

I've always liked Prince Fredrick,there's something about him,I can just tell he's got a very kind heart.

eliz 01-15-2011 02:05 PM

dear benedikte and muhler, since from what i see you are both located in danemark, your disagreement on frederik's danish in quite interesting.
i know we are O.T., but i'd love to hear more on this.

i can't understand a single word in danish, so i judge from the images only and from the expressions and the body language. and IMO, frederik looks like a very open, warm, nice, sensitive and/but shy person. now of course he has got used to speaking in public, to being photographed etcetera, but from some gestures i think he is not completely, or better deeply, confortable with that - e.g. the constant habit of putting at least one hand into his pocket. i think that he has grown into accepting this shyness of his and has understood that he can be liked all the same (and if i am not mistaken he is quite popular in danemark), and i got the impression that this acceptance has made him more sure - see e.g. the speech at his mother's 70th birthday, where i think he did not stumled, but delivered quite well without appearing overanxious.
i also think that, were he an arrogant or cold guy, his uncertainty would be much more stressed and criticised, while, being the nice fellow he is, this "defect" is not heavily and badly commented upon.
but of course, i wait to see what you danish think about it.

justcurious 01-16-2011 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpriestess (Post 706886)
He has had 40 years to deal with the position he's born into. Jeez, it's about time for him and his defenders to quit this excuse for his lack of productivity. There's far worse fate than being born a crown prince. He's paid generously and enjoys all the previlleges of his position while working only one or two days a week. There are millions of people would switch place with him.

As for likability, it's not enough to be liked by Danes. It's a monarch's job to represent his country. He will need to be liked or at least respected by non-Danes. So far, judging from his light-weight overseas trips and very few participation at international events, he appears to have very little stature outside of Denmark. This will hurt his position in the long run.

Excuse the bluntness as I am not as articulate as some of the people on here but you don't get to tell his 'defenders' when to quit anything and I, being one of those defenders, will not quit based on someone else's opinions about the CP. :nonono:
And I'm sorry, but you don't see what he does 24/7, so a few minutes of news report every day and stories (often exaggerated) in tabloids doesn't equate to a sweeping generalisation that all he does is 'light-weight' overseas trips for the rest of the 168 hours of the week.

Frederik does need to make a good impression in the world and not only in Denmark. He is representing his country wherever he goes so he really has no other choice other than to abdicate the monarchy if he doesn't want to become King. And seeing him with other Royals and Diplomats around the world, there is nothing that gives me the impression he isn't respected so he is doing just fine in that area.

The impression I get with Frederik is exactly the same as royalone3. There's something warm about him. While he may not be the most gifted of public speakers, what he has that I don't see with most is his ability to make everyone (even the media) around him feel relaxed and comfortable, even though he may not be. His playfulness and his demeanor is what makes Frederik the man he is. There is nothing wrong with the way he represents his country. Not since Mary has been by his side anyway.

IMO, Frederik reminds me so much of his mother. I have noticed even now, QMII seems to be a little awkward when talking in a formal setting, sometimes stumbling over words or lines of a speech but she soldiers on and she still gets her message across loud and clear. Look how beloved she is by the Danes. You don't have to be a great speaker to be a great Queen.

What is privilege to you may not be a privilege to someone like Frederik.
We as 'commoners' see that lifestyle as a priviledge because we have lived our whole lives as 'commoners'. When we see something like the banquets they throw, the glamor, tiara's, clothes we instantly wish that for ourselves. We as a human race associate all these things (money) to having a 'great' life but we don't see the weight of expectations on these Royals minds, the need to be on guard and mindful of people they can trust, the pressure to keep an image and make a monarch relevant in today's society. There are so many more problems attached to a Royal than a commoner.

Frederik has never known what it is like to be a 'commoner' or an 'average joe' like the rest of us. He has been born and raised in the public life and would probably see something like becoming an 'average joe' more of a privilege than becoming a King and leaving your fate and life in the control of strangers you don't personally know. Because of it, his outlook on life and his decisions will differ greatly from you or I. So don't expect him to think the way we would and make the same decisions we would if we were in the same situation.

You are correct in saying there a millions of people who would switch places with him, only a few will ever be qualified enough though to represent Denmark like Frederik and only one will ever be King.

Benedikte 01-16-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpriestess (Post 706886)
He has had 40 years to deal with the position he's born into. Jeez, it's about time for him and his defenders to quit this excuse for his lack of productivity. There's far worse fate than being born a crown prince. He's paid generously and enjoys all the previlleges of his position while working only one or two days a week. There are millions of people would switch place with him.

As for likability, it's not enough to be liked by Danes. It's a monarch's job to represent his country. He will need to be liked or at least respected by non-Danes. So far, judging from his light-weight overseas trips and very few participation at international events, he appears to have very little stature outside of Denmark. This will hurt his position in the long run.

Well CP Frederik has proven his worth.

He has both an academic degree as well as the hardest military education.

In 1989, the crown prince began to study for an academic degree, when he began a course in Political Science at University of Aarhus. This included a year at Harvard University (1992–1993) under the name of Frederik Henriksen, studying political science. He then took up a position for three months with the Danish UN mission in New York in 1994. In 1995 Crown Prince Frederik obtained his MA degree in Political Science from University of Aarhus. He completed the course in the prescribed number of years with an exam result above average. His final paper was an analysis on the foreign policy of the Baltic States.

He has completed extensive military studies and training in all three services, notably completing education as a sailor in the naval elite special operations forces (members of this are known as frogmen or frømænd in Danish).

Frederik, Crown Prince of Denmark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rosapru 01-16-2011 03:08 PM

Benedikte, I dont thing the academic degree and his military education has something to do with some ability or suitability. It's like knowledge and intelligence.
I just dont know if Frederick is suitable, but I just notice that he is not on the international stage as is Prince Felipe of spain, Haakon or Willem-Alexander. Haakon and Willem (who did the same course of studies) go every year to Davos (Economic Forum). Why Frederick is never invited to assit and discuss and be part of the forum? why the danish governement did not ask him to be part and intervene during the Green conference (sorry I miss the name) which take place in copenhaguen (Prince Charles was invited with Al Gore to deliver a speech, why not the own crown prince of the country) It just make me think they dont believe he can be able to do it? It is just questions from me (not negativity) but if a danish friend wants to answer. Thank you in advance. I'm french so forgive my very bad english....

Muhler 01-16-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliz (Post 1192205)
dear benedikte and muhler, since from what i see you are both located in danemark, your disagreement on frederik's danish in quite interesting.
i know we are O.T., but i'd love to hear more on this.

i can't understand a single word in danish, so i judge from the images only and from the expressions and the body language. and IMO, frederik looks like a very open, warm, nice, sensitive and/but shy person. now of course he has got used to speaking in public, to being photographed etcetera, but from some gestures i think he is not completely, or better deeply, confortable with that - e.g. the constant habit of putting at least one hand into his pocket. i think that he has grown into accepting this shyness of his and has understood that he can be liked all the same (and if i am not mistaken he is quite popular in danemark), and i got the impression that this acceptance has made him more sure - see e.g. the speech at his mother's 70th birthday, where i think he did not stumled, but delivered quite well without appearing overanxious.
i also think that, were he an arrogant or cold guy, his uncertainty would be much more stressed and criticised, while, being the nice fellow he is, this "defect" is not heavily and badly commented upon.
but of course, i wait to see what you danish think about it.

Well, let me try to answer that.
When I say that I find Frederik is a poor verbal communicator it's a statement, an opinion not an attack.

I can't sing. I can improve by practise but I'll remain a poor singer because I haven't got the talent.
The same thing with Frederik when it comes to addressing a crowd, a press conference or giving a more or less improvised speech.
His mumbles, don't finish sentences, use an odd chioce of words and express himself in a way where it is not clear exactly what he mean. In short: his speech is black.
He has problems translating his thought pattern into a coherent language, everyone can understand. That's an art. (Which everyone who has been given the task of writing manuals can testify to).
He knows that, so conciously or not he gets nervous in such situations and that just makes it worse.

Others, like Mary and Joachim are natural talents when it comes to addressing an audience or dealing with the press. Reinforced by the triumphs they have had, of which Frederik have had so precious few.

Two of the occasions where Frederik really got through to the audience where in situations where he was not concious of the situation, where he wasn't concerned about doing well, where he was so overjoyed he just went ahead. They were at the birth of Christian and now at the birth of the twins, where he faced the press. (*)
When Frederik speaks from the heart without being concious of what he is saying or has to say, that's where he is at his best.

That also explains why those who have spoken to him one on one, almost unanimously say they genuinely like him and what he says. - No audience.
Of course you should no discount Frederik's charisma in this context, not least on a personal level, which appeal to so many.

However, being a poor verbal comminicator is a handicap in our day an age, where Frederik is forced to communicate through the media.

(*) He made such a good impression that one article wrote about how well he expressed himself under the headline: "A father is born".

Benedikte 01-16-2011 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosapru (Post 1192814)
Benedikte, I dont thing the academic degree and his military education has something to do with some ability or suitability. It's like knowledge and intelligence.
I just dont know if Frederick is suitable, but I just notice that he is not on the international stage as is Prince Felipe of spain, Haakon or Willem-Alexander. Haakon and Willem (who did the same course of studies) go every year to Davos (Economic Forum). Why Frederick is never invited to assit and discuss and be part of the forum? why the danish governement did not ask him to be part and intervene during the Green conference (sorry I miss the name) which take place in copenhaguen (Prince Charles was invited with Al Gore to deliver a speech, why not the own crown prince of the country) It just make me think they dont believe he can be able to do it? It is just questions from me (not negativity) but if a danish friend wants to answer. Thank you in advance. I'm french so forgive my very bad english....

Well in Denmark we are not hearing a lot about The spanish CP nor Willem. Actually we never hear about any of them.

I had no idee that Haakon and Willem go every year to Davos (Economic Forum). As I have never heard about this Forum.

I would how ever be surprised if the danish CP participated in any kind of political forum what so ever.:lol:

The danish royal house don't engage in political issues.:flowers:

CrownPrincess5 01-16-2011 03:18 PM

I'm not sure Fred will take his role seriously.
It seems like Mary is more serious about it at times. Maybe he's the type that takes things in a stride, I don't know, but I would definitely like to see how he handles his future role, he may surprise me:smile:

Muhler 01-16-2011 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosapru (Post 1192814)
Benedikte, I dont thing the academic degree and his military education has something to do with some ability or suitability. It's like knowledge and intelligence.
I just dont know if Frederick is suitable, but I just notice that he is not on the international stage as is Prince Felipe of spain, Haakon or Willem-Alexander. Haakon and Willem (who did the same course of studies) go every year to Davos (Economic Forum). Why Frederick is never invited to assit and discuss and be part of the forum? why the danish governement did not ask him to be part and intervene during the Green conference (sorry I miss the name) which take place in copenhaguen (Prince Charles was invited with Al Gore to deliver a speech, why not the own crown prince of the country) It just make me think they dont believe he can be able to do it? It is just questions from me (not negativity) but if a danish friend wants to answer. Thank you in advance. I'm french so forgive my very bad english....

That's a difficult question to answer. Because I simply don't know.

There can be all sorts of reasons why Frederik is not taking part. - Because it's not his area, because it didn't fit his schedule, because it is considered too political.
If Frederik is attending he is not in a position where he is allowed to say much anyway let alone commit to anything, so the main reason can hardly be a lack of confidence in him.

Benedikte 01-16-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 (Post 1192822)
I'm not sure Fred will take his role seriously.
It seems like Mary is more serious about it at times. Maybe he's the type that takes things in a stride, I don't know, but I would definitely like to see how he handles his future role, he may surprise me:smile:

I don't see why you should think that he isn't serious.

Par example the navy seal corps is such a difficult education that you wouldn't believe it.:flowers:

eliz 01-16-2011 03:45 PM

thanks everybody for answering my questions.
what muhler makes more sense to me and coincides with the impression i got of frederik myself. i remember him saying that mary is a severe and stimulating critic of his work and i think it meant that he is practising more and more and trying to stick to his notes more, event though of course this will not turn him into a super public speaker.
fortunately he has other kinds of charisma, which can make up for his mumblings etcetera.
nice to see that he delivers very well when his hearth is really into it, e.g. after the twins were born. Muhler, what did exactly say the article A father was born?
on the other hand, it could also be dangerous, bc from the poorness of his performance the audience can immediately understand he does not care about the special occasion...
This said, i do reckon he is so likeable and warm that he is a very suitable cp and will make a very nice king. a modern one, an emotional one maybe, a very sporty and trendy one, but a good one.

Lumutqueen 01-16-2011 03:46 PM

Just because he can go through the navy seal corps, doesn't mean he can be King of a country.
Education and a military career won't make him a good king, they might make him a better knowledgable person.

You might not understand why people can't see Frederik as a suitable King, but some of us can.

Muhler 01-16-2011 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliz (Post 1192837)
Muhler, what did exactly say the article A father was born?

I no longer have that article in my archive. I remember it because I translated it.
The author was positively surprised at how well and how confident Frederik expressed himself (just like at the press meeting last Saturday in fact) and how much of a change that was. Hence the reference to A (mature and confident) father is born.
The author also expressed a delight and hope that we were seeing a new Frederik emerging, in regards to speaking in public, press conferences and so on.
That wasn't to be the case.
Frederik replapsed into his usual speech pattern, or became aware of what and how he was saying things, if you like.

Sternchen 01-16-2011 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1192838)
Just because he can go through the navy seal corps, doesn't mean he can be King of a country.
Education and a military career won't make him a good king, they might make him a better knowledgable person.

You might not understand why people can't see Frederik as a suitable King, but some of us can.

I think Benedikte refers more to the claim, that Frederik wouldn't take his role seriously ;)

Benedikte 01-16-2011 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1192838)
Just because he can go through the navy seal corps, doesn't mean he can be King of a country.
Education and a military career won't make him a good king, they might make him a better knowledgable person.

You might not understand why people can't see Frederik as a suitable King, but some of us can.

I do agree that education show you are able to live your full potentiel, but that would not be in much use if CP Frederik was a person out of touch with Denmark.

I'm happy to say that CP Frederik is not only an academic person with an academic degree and a navy seal, but CP Frederik also personifies the danes very essence.

He is down to earth.

Not arrogant nor formal.

And that is important to danish people. :lol: And taht is why he is very popular in Denmark:lol:

I'm aware that other countries prefer more stiff upper lip kind of persons.:flowers:

eliz 01-16-2011 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1192840)
I no longer have that article in my archive. I remember it because I translated it.
The author was positively surprised at how well and how confident Frederik expressed himself (just like at the press meeting last Saturday in fact) and how much of a change that was. Hence the reference to A (mature and confident) father is born.
The author also expressed a delight and hope that we were seeing a new Frederik emerging, in regards to speaking in public, press conferences and so on.
That wasn't to be the case.
Frederik replapsed into his usual speech pattern, or became aware of what and how he was saying things, if you like.

thanks all the same.
well, from my personal experience here in italy, i would like to point out that, though being a good public speaker certainly is important nowadays, it is not everything to a good/suitable politician/king.
e.g., our infamous premier is a damn good communicator, has a kiler instinct when it comes to seducing the audience. but... you all know the story, his actions, our problems.
back to frederik, from the videos i heard joachim certainly sounds more direct and less mumbling, but i also find him quite cold and boring (maybe he is not this way at all, it's just the impression I get). frederik on the other hand always manages to warm me, in a way i'm involved in what he says event though not through his speaking ability.

justcurious 01-16-2011 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliz (Post 1192837)
thanks everybody for answering my questions.
what muhler makes more sense to me and coincides with the impression i got of frederik myself. i remember him saying that mary is a severe and stimulating critic of his work and i think it meant that he is practising more and more and trying to stick to his notes more, event though of course this will not turn him into a super public speaker.
fortunately he has other kinds of charisma, which can make up for his mumblings etcetera.
nice to see that he delivers very well when his hearth is really into it, e.g. after the twins were born. Muhler, what did exactly say the article A father was born?
on the other hand, it could also be dangerous, bc from the poorness of his performance the audience can immediately understand he does not care about the special occasion...
This said, i do reckon he is so likeable and warm that he is a very suitable cp and will make a very nice king. a modern one, an emotional one maybe, a very sporty and trendy one, but a good one.

:flowers: IMO you have described almost exactly what kind of King he would be. He is all those things and more.;)

Muhler 01-16-2011 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliz (Post 1192846)
back to frederik, from the videos i heard joachim certainly sounds more direct and less mumbling, but i also find him quite cold and boring (maybe he is not this way at all, it's just the impression I get). frederik on the other hand always manages to warm me, in a way i'm involved in what he says event though not through his speaking ability.

That doesn't surprise me.

The difference is presumably that you don't understand what Frederik is saying, so you look at his body language and note his charisma.
While I (to be honest) listen and try to make sense of what he is saying.

Perhaps I should cut the sound the next time he speaks. :lol:

Benedikte 01-16-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliz (Post 1192846)
thanks all the same.
well, from my personal experience here in italy, i would like to point out that, though being a good public speaker certainly is important nowadays, it is not everything to a good/suitable politician/king.
e.g., our infamous premier is a damn good communicator, has a kiler instinct when it comes to seducing the audience. but... you all know the story, his actions, our problems.
back to frederik, from the videos i heard joachim certainly sounds more direct and less mumbling, but i also find him quite cold and boring (maybe he is not this way at all, it's just the impression I get). frederik on the other hand always manages to warm me, in a way i'm involved in what he says event though not through his speaking ability.

I do agree with you Eliz.:flowers:

CP Frederik has the challenge that he must not express any political views. And as an academic he might use long sentences when he is asked a question that he tries to answer without being political:flowers:

But his warm personality always shows.

Muhler 01-16-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benedikte (Post 1192850)
And as an academic he might use long sentences when he is asked a question that he tries to answer without being political:flowers:

Then perhaps he should use shorter and simpler sentences.

Not finishing sentences and mumbling are bad habits, which he can work on.
The flowery or rather image-loaded language he express himself with is a genuine problem for him. It's my impression he thinks in this fashion. That's a thought-pattern that can be very difficult to put into words. Some are blessed with that gift. - Unsurprisingly they are often poets and authors. Frederik, alas, do not posess that gift.

I was absolutely delighted when I heard he recieved councelling in how to speak to the press. I don't know what went wrong. It hasn't worked.
Either the councellors were not skilled enough or they ought to have knocked frederik on the head and said: "Pay attention"!

Benedikte 01-16-2011 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1192852)
Then perhaps he should use shorter and simpler sentences.

Not finishing sentences and mumbling are bad habits, which he can work on.
The flowery or rather image-loaded language he express himself with is a genuine problem for him. It's my impression he thinks in this fashion. That's a thought-pattern that can be very difficult to put into words. Some are blessed with that gift. - Unsurprisingly they are often poets and authors. Frederik, alas, do not posess that gift.

I was absolutely delighted when I heard he recieved councelling in how to speak to the press. I don't know what went wrong. It hasn't worked.
Either the councellors were not skilled enough or they ought to have knocked frederik on the head and said: "Pay attention"!

Well I don't agree with you.

Are we all going to use short sentences?

I hardly think so:lol:

Muhler 01-16-2011 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benedikte (Post 1192853)
Well I don't agree with you.

Are we all going to use short sentences?

I hardly think so:lol:

Well, if you want to get your message across, you may have to. ;)

justcurious 01-16-2011 04:41 PM

If I used shorter sentences to get my message across, I would be banned! :lol:

wanderingnana 01-16-2011 04:44 PM

I very seldom post on these forums- I enjoy reading everyone's opinions but I do have to say that I find the opinions of people from countries other than Denmark a trifle superfluous. The Danes on this board, for the most part seem to approve of Frederick -even like, admire and respect him. As long as the Danish people are satisfied, I don't think it really matters what non-Danes think about his ability to be a good King or not. And I would remind you that one of the best-loved English Kings-George VI-had horrendous problems in public speaking. His people still love him today.

Muhler 01-16-2011 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderingnana (Post 1192863)
I very seldom post on these forums- I enjoy reading everyone's opinions but I do have to say that I find the opinions of people from countries other than Denmark a trifle superfluous. The Danes on this board, for the most part seem to approve of Frederick -even like, admire and respect him. As long as the Danish people are satisfied, I don't think it really matters what non-Danes think about his ability to be a good King or not. And I would remind you that one of the best-loved English Kings-George VI-had horrendous problems in public speaking. His people still love him today.

That's true.

However, I'd like to point out that the name of the thread is a bit misleading in regards to the current discussion, which is Frederik's speech pattern, rather than his suitablility as a king.
- A nice long sentence, eh? :tongue:

Benedikte 01-16-2011 04:54 PM

And there is no problem with his speach pattern IMO:)

Avoiding to be caught in a political discussion he is able to deliver an academic answer because he is an academic.

Rascal 01-16-2011 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderingnana (Post 1192863)
I very seldom post on these forums- I enjoy reading everyone's opinions but I do have to say that I find the opinions of people from countries other than Denmark a trifle superfluous. The Danes on this board, for the most part seem to approve of Frederick -even like, admire and respect him. As long as the Danish people are satisfied, I don't think it really matters what non-Danes think about his ability to be a good King or not. And I would remind you that one of the best-loved English Kings-George VI-had horrendous problems in public speaking. His people still love him today.

This is not a response to you specifically, wanderingnana, but I am using your words to address a wider attitude in this thread.

If the opinions of people from outside of Denmark are "superfluous" and it doesn't really matter what non-Danes think, why have this thread in the first place? Why have any thread for that matter? Are we here to have a a discussion or to use people's nationality as a basis for the validity of their opinion?

BTW, thank you for making my point...George VI is a much beloved deceased monarch who is not only highly regarded today, but also has a film, "The King's Speech" currently in theaters that is completely about his speech problems.

auntie 01-16-2011 05:03 PM

I always thought that danish is a mumbling language as the cprince mumbles and has alot of "err" in his sentences, and a native danish doctor in the medical facility where i do pr work Also always seems to mumble, now i see that it is not so!

Muhler 01-16-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benedikte (Post 1192867)
And there is no problem with his speach pattern IMO:)

Avoiding to be caught in a political discussion he is able to deliver an academic answer because he is an academic.

Eeh, I do not find his answers particularly academic and even if they were it may be advisable to be less "academic" as the majority of the population are not academics.
And they are after all also to be considered, I trust?

FasterB 01-16-2011 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie (Post 1192872)
I always thought that danish is a mumbling language as the cprince mumbles and has alot of "err" in his sentences, and a native danish doctor in the medical facility where i do pr work Also always seems to mumble, now i see that it is not so!

It is easy to speak danish with you rmouth just a little bit open ;) I find myself doing it sometimes, eventhough I, as a singer, should know better ;)

AnnaNotherThing 01-16-2011 05:37 PM

I think since he has meet, married and grown with a suitable life partner, I think he is more suitable to be King in 2011, than he was say in 1999...And I don't know much about him before that time but I imagine it was probably just an age thing, he was younger then, experimenting with boundaries, testing limits, just living it up being a young adult...

And as with all responsibilities that are thrust upon you, you rise to the occassion when that happens...and maybe in royal circles becoming the monarch is bittersweet, because it also signifies the passing of the previous monarch and parent...So maybe that might explain Frederik's reluctance to discuss 'being King' with the media or anyone, because that would mean his mother would be dead....No-one wants to think about that!

camelot23ca 01-16-2011 06:57 PM

Regarding the public speaking I wonder if it's become ingrained in him that this is something he just can't do. Unlike most of us Frederik has never had the opportunity to improve his speaking skills in a gradual, natural way. If you're a politician who isn't especially good at speaking, for example, you get to improve over years starting out with little local town hall meetings that only about five people care about or listen to, and then as your career progresses the audiences become bigger and the stakes are higher. At some point you might find yourself Prime Minister or the equivalent and then, yes, everyone in the country is listening and judging what you have to say, (and how you say it). Frederik didn't have that sort of career progression; he essentially started out at the level of a well known national politician with all the attention and criticism that comes with it. I can see how it would be difficult to find the motivation to improve in that kind of situation.

Terri Terri 01-16-2011 07:14 PM

First of all, let me congratulate everyone for being able to discuss this issue in a civilized and polite manner:flowers: What a joy for a Danish thread that too often in the past has degenerated into a slinging match!:whistling: Long may this continue!:smile:

Secondly, I don't agree with the perspective that it matters only to the Danish if CP Frederik is a good King or not. We live in a global society. Frederik will essentially become Denmark's top ambassador & diplomat in the future. His job entails carrying the banner for Denmark all over the world and improving relations between Denmark and other countries. So yes, his ability to communicate and also to be a good King is important outside of Denmark as well.

Thirdly, I think that it is no secret that I am an admirer of CP Frederik (and a proud member of the red pants brigade at that :lol::whistling:). I like him because he comes across as genuine, warm and his ability to so easily show his emotions in public (which only came about after he got engaged, married and had a family). He seems like the kind of person that you can sit down, have a beer and chat with and completely forget that he is a Crown Prince. For someone who has been royal all his life, I think that is a rare gift.

That being said, communication is a vital part of his job. And he should take steps to improve what is obviously a weak area of his. With his mother on the throne, this is the perfect time to be working on that. When he becomes King, all bets will be off and I don't think having a folksy personality will be all that counts.

I too think that we may be very surprised at his performance when he becomes King. His marriage and having children have brought out positive changes in him. I hope that he gets better and better.

Now, if only we can get him a proper day suit tailor and improve his communication...he would be perfect!!!!:rofl::lol:

wanderingnana 01-16-2011 07:40 PM

First of all, I like his red pants- lol. Secondly-I realize it is a discussion board, but I think I do have a point- what difference is it to an American, say, if Frederick is a good King? He isn't an American King or an English King= but a Danish King and if the Danes are satisfied with him, then we should be- we don't have to live under his rule or presence, since I believe that the Danish Parliament and Prime Minister really govern that country. The thing that strikes me is that some people criticize him and these people do not live in his country, yet seem to say that he is unacceptable to them. That may be true if he were English or American or Australian- but he's Danish. It is true to a certain extent that we live in a global community, but not that global. Of course, I am not European and don't understand the EC and all it's ramifications and don't pretend to comment on any of that with little or no knowledge. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers. I have seen the King's Speech and loved it. I think it proves that there are other qualities in a ruler that are at least as important as the ability to be a wonderful public speaker. There are a great number of great public speakers who have no business trying to run a country. My country is loaded with them.

Terri Terri 01-16-2011 08:19 PM

Your points are noted!:flowers: However, the discussion in this thread include posts by Danes who think he should be much better at communicating than he is. There are some Danes who think he is not suitable to be King. Yes, it does appear that CP Frederik is very popular in his country, but I don't think we should discount the views of those that think he needs to do much better.:smile:
The people who want him to do better...want a better King. I don't see anything wrong with that. Everyone can always improve!:flowers:

Naggi 01-16-2011 08:36 PM

Well, I guess we will never know if he will be a suitable king unless he becomes king one day and faces that new challange. For the time being though I have to say that I don't find a portfolio for Frederik. He seems to do his job as much as it is needed from him, yes. But apart from that I can't see that he is interested in anything else than sports. He doesn't seem to have his own field of interest at least it is not that visible to me.

Terri Terri 01-16-2011 08:47 PM

The portfolio of CP Frederik centers around sport, the youth (getting them active and involved in sports), the environment, expeditions and research. He runs for pleasure and in marathons, sails competitively, motor bike racing (even the prime minister took part in a race with him last year) - he is physically active. He is a member of the ISAF International Sailing Committee which deals with sailing competitions. He is the Danish representative of the IOC. I understand that Denmark and the European Union has an issue with obesity and especially childhood obesity...both Frederik and Mary, as physically active people who love exercise and sports are supporters of sporting events and encourages those activities at events with the youth. I am sure that the Danes can tell you more about Frederik's focus.
For obvious reasons, it seems that the men in the DRF (Henrik, Frederik & Joachim) don't get much media focus on their activities since Mary and Marie are the prime media focus. But then, that's true for all monarchies, not only in Denmark.

CrownPrincess5 01-16-2011 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen
Just because he can go through the navy seal corps, doesn't mean he can be King of a country.
Education and a military career won't make him a good king, they might make him a better knowledgable person.

You might not understand why people can't see Frederik as a suitable King, but some of us can.

Exactly!
Being a suitable king is so much more than some think.

Terri Terri 01-16-2011 09:06 PM

I have faith in the fact that CP Frederik will become a good King. His mother Queen Margrethe was not always the articulate Queen she has become. She had to grow in the role as well.:flowers:

rob2008 01-16-2011 09:19 PM

Frederik will be the next Danish king because the law says he will be. Joachim has a character that is more suited to leadership but he is not heir apparent - it's that simple. Joachim has a marvellous combination of upper class certainty joined with a genuine and relevant concern for social issues. His latest trips to Africa - whilst not necessarily productive or valuable in tackling the problems there - demonstrated that he knows he has to have a commitment to service in the wide sense. I am struggling to think of any similar meaningful personal discomfort or commitment that Frederik has made in the name of the wellbeing of others. And that is everything that we look for in a ruling dynasty and gives it validity. Frederik's real difficulty is that his failings are very sharply highlighted in contrast to Haakon and Willem-Alexander. These are two highly intelligent men with a real inner sense of purpose and public service. You do not expect these two gentlemen to put a foot wrong but you are not surprised with Frederik does. (...) Frederik shares similar limitations to Phillippe de Brabant - neither are particularly bright and are not clear on the responsibilities that come with privilege in a constitutional monarchy in the 21st C. (...)

Mirabel 01-16-2011 10:23 PM

Perhaps Americans shouldn't even comment on this, but my opinion is that Frederik would make a much more suitable king than his brother.
Joachim gives the impression of being arrogant, abrupt, and self-absorbed.

If he has some extreme social consciousness, I haven't observed it. He may be a better speaker than Frederik, but some excellent speakers turn out to be all style and no substance (a phenomenon we are well-acquainted with in the USA).

wanderingnana 01-16-2011 10:50 PM

From what I've read-here on this board about Joachim and his character I will have to agree with you. As far as Willem Alexander is concerned, a great many people on the Dutch monarchy board seem to consider him something of an ignoramus. I do think that's probably pretty exaggerated. I'll stick with Frederick.

justcurious 01-16-2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1192910)
I don't agree with the perspective that it matters only to the Danish if CP Frederik is a good King or not. We live in a global society. Frederik will essentially become Denmark's top ambassador & diplomat in the future. His job entails carrying the banner for Denmark all over the world and improving relations between Denmark and other countries. So yes, his ability to communicate and also to be a good King is important outside of Denmark as well.

That being said, communication is a vital part of his job. And he should take steps to improve what is obviously a weak area of his. With his mother on the throne, this is the perfect time to be working on that. When he becomes King, all bets will be off and I don't think having a folksy personality will be all that counts.

I too think that we may be very surprised at his performance when he becomes King. His marriage and having children have brought out positive changes in him. I hope that he gets better and better.

I think he will surprise people and just like his mother, he will eventually earn the love of a nation. Is he not more popular now than Margrethe ever was when she was the CPss?

And I totally agree with you about his wife and children. It has changed him for the better. He seems to have the stability and support that he was lacking in his 'playboy' years. He is a man content on his life and he seems aware of his place in his family and Denmark's history.
Frederik's approach to his duty as a husband, father and CP may not conform to what the perceived idea a person in his position should do but if the way he is right now makes him a better half in all these three aspects of his life, then why do we ask more of him? What if this is all he can give?

Okay, so we expect more of him as he will be the future King so why don't we wait until the guy actually is one before we can judge if he is suitable for the job or not?

Richard Branson was a dyslexic and was what he himself calls 'stupid' during his early years. People didn't know what it was back then and so they just thought he was dumb. He failed during tests and quiz time because this was his weak areas and eventually dropped out. But what he did have was an ambition and a love of sport, music, adventures and people around him.
One of the most famous quotes in his biography was his headmaster and his prediction in his yearbook where he congratulates Branson and says that he is either going to end up in jail or become a millionare.
Of course he isn't a millionare now.

He's a billionare.

You're probably wondering why I wrote this :lol: but I just wanted to point out that not everyone who is successful was good at doing everything in life. Your weaknesses are someone elses success. Frederik may not be the strongest of speakers but he is no dud either. He more than makes up with it in other areas.He has an ability to make people warm to him and that quality is rare to find in any human being, let alone a CP who has lived such a public life. He seems like one of the most approachable CP's, if not the most approachable CP there is today.

When he becomes King, I have no doubt he would bring his own ability and strengths to help him, not to mention he will have the support and guidance of his wife beside him all the way. It really isn't that much of a sad case here.
He is more than suited to becoming a King. CP Frederik is just doing it the way he knows best. Which won't please everyone but hey, such is life.:flowers:

auntie 01-17-2011 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 1192941)
Frederik will be the next Danish king because the law says he will be. Joachim has a character that is more suited to leadership but he is not heir apparent - it's that simple. Joachim has a marvellous combination of upper class certainty joined with a genuine and relevant concern for social issues. His latest trips to Africa - whilst not necessarily productive or valuable in tackling the problems there - demonstrated that he knows he has to have a commitment to service in the wide sense. I am struggling to think of any similar meaningful personal discomfort or commitment that Frederik has made in the name of the wellbeing of others. And that is everything that we look for in a ruling dynasty and gives it validity. Frederik's real difficulty is that his failings are very sharply highlighted in contrast to Haakon and Willem-Alexander. These are two highly intelligent men with a real inner sense of purpose and public service. You do not expect these two gentlemen to put a foot wrong but you are not surprised with Frederik does. (...) Frederik shares similar limitations to Phillippe de Brabant - neither are particularly bright and are not clear on the responsibilities that come with privilege in a constitutional monarchy in the 21st C. (...)

Very well written:smile:, and although I don't agree with all you have to say, I don't think you said anything slanderous or uncivil or mean. Some people on this board just cant take hearing any criticism about their fav royal.

JessRulz 01-17-2011 06:41 AM

This thread is about Frederik's suitability to be King - not Mary's "credentials" or her comparison to other wives of heirs. Please keep the discussion to Frederik, posts which are deemed off-topic will be removed.

JessRulz
Danish Forum Mod

marfre 01-17-2011 06:54 AM

Refer post #76
"cannot take hearing any criticism of their favourite royal" This is becoming quite an over used statement/comment, when replies are made to a negative posts. It appears so often that that it almost feels as though we are supposed to agree with what has been posted.
We can go to any thread and on this forum and where there is a negative post about any royal there is always someone to reply in favour, so I am unsure as to why it is an issue here.

justcurious 01-17-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 1192941)
Frederik will be the next Danish king because the law says he will be. Joachim has a character that is more suited to leadership but he is not heir apparent - it's that simple. Joachim has a marvellous combination of upper class certainty joined with a genuine and relevant concern for social issues. His latest trips to Africa - whilst not necessarily productive or valuable in tackling the problems there - demonstrated that he knows he has to have a commitment to service in the wide sense.

There is no manual book of who and what kind of person is suited to be a leader. You only have to look back through history at how different the Kings and Queens were during their own reign. Sure PJoachim would have made a great leader. If he was in 1800s. It's a different society from 20 yrs ago and CP Frederik has adapted better to this modern lifestyle IMO. Upper class certainty isn't neccessarily a good thing, especially when most people see it as arrogance. (I don't BTW)
One trip does not demonstrate he has a commitment for a lifetime. Don't get me wrong, I like PJoachim but let's be real here shall we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 1192941)
I am struggling to think of any similar meaningful personal discomfort or commitment that Frederik has made in the name of the wellbeing of others. And that is everything that we look for in a ruling dynasty and gives it validity.

How easy to forget that CP Frederik has extensive years under his belt training as as a Navy seal (or the equivalent of that in Denmark), trained with the Defence force and served as a staff officer for DFD. Some of the toughest training you'll find anywhere. You need a strong will, passion and determination to survive such training yet people don't see it as a commitment?:eek:
Please refer to his decorated military career, which also included the Airforce and Army. These things you don't just wake up and do without showing a deep interest in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 1192941)
Frederik's real difficulty is that his failings are very sharply highlighted in contrast to Haakon and Willem-Alexander. These are two highly intelligent men with a real inner sense of purpose and public service.You do not expect these two gentlemen to put a foot wrong but you are not surprised with Frederik does.

What exactly makes these two more intelligent than Frederik? A sense of purpose and public service? Do they not get more apanage and take more holidays than Frederik annually? I am not stating these opinions as facts though because I know very little about them. I was making a 'sweeping' generalisation based on the little excerpts I read here and there.
What could be more purposeful then being a loving father, a loving husband and being the CP of Denmark?
As for public service, I refer you to my answer above.

(...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008 (Post 1192941)
Frederik shares similar limitations to Phillippe de Brabant - neither are particularly bright and are not clear on the responsibilities that come with privilege in a constitutional monarchy in the 21st C.

Obviously I totally, absolutely, 100% disagree with this.
You don't get a MA for Political science if you weren't 'bright'. CP Frederik has made it clear many times that he understands the role he must take as King, and if anything, CP Frederik is as modern of a CP as you can get. He understands the issues of today. That is why he is deeply involved in all things to do with the environment, which is one of the most important issues of our time. Obesity is also a problem in today's society and that is why he has involved himself in so many sports challenges. Too often we hear people complain about leaders and royals leading by example. That is exactly what he is doing. He is out there running marathons and being pro-active.
But why report the good things he's trying to do when it's more interesting to discuss how much money they spent and how many holidays they take? :rolleyes:

(...)

Susanna Wynne 01-17-2011 11:02 AM

From the perspective of one who pays attention to such things, the CP appears authentic. In the presser after the twins' birth, he was entirely genuine, warm, intelligent, and witty. He has chosen a wife who reflects extremely well on him and on Denmark. By outward appearances, they seem to have embraced the value of family-orientation and a togetherness in terms of family values. Again, by outward appearances, he seems a reasonably hands-on father.

If it took him a bit longer to grow up, so to speak, so what? He has a tough "row to hoe" and perhaps he would rather be in the shoes of Carl Phillip or Joachim. But he isn't. He has made some good choices that suggest he has come to terms with what his life will/must be. I for one give him credit for the educational/military choices he has made as well as the critical life choices I have mentioned and will trust that he will continue to make sound choices as he grows nearer to his destiny, and eventually assumes it. My prayers are with Frederik and Mary, and I hope others will join in a silent encouragement of prayer and good will toward them. They will need it...

Madame Royale 01-17-2011 11:13 AM

Quote:

My prayers are with Frederik and Mary, and I hope others will join in a silent encouragement of prayer and good will toward them. They will need it...
That was indeed a very lovely finish to what was a well articulated and sensible post, Susanna.

It costs nothing to wish someone, or a couple, well in life. I feel the same as yourself on the matter.

grevinnan 01-17-2011 11:19 AM

Fredrik is in a very difficult position, as is the rest of the European royal houses. Will the death/abdication of the sitting regents become the tipping point for the monarchists and republicans? The sitting regents honed their skills during a time when royals were truly above everyone else in all regards. That will not be the case with the crown princes/princesses waiting in line. The world has changed and so has the people and the devotion to someone just because of birth right. The monarchies are purely ceremonial today even if they still have a few functions, which can all be done under a republican system just as well.

Will Fredrik be so important to the Danish people that he can be their regent not only on paper but also in spirit? And does he want to? Perhaps by comparing him to the other crownprinces/princess can we begin to understand his committment to his role. And having a wife that is perfectly made up and dressed in Prada is not necessarily an asset.

Madame Royale 01-17-2011 11:25 AM

Quote:

...which can all be done under a republican system just as well.
I dread the day republics should make up every governing body :biggrin:

Quote:

And having a wife that is perfectly made up and dressed in Prada is not necessarily an asset.
If that is the case, then that is a statement that should be attributed to all the wives of the current heirs, and not just one of them ;)

Though how this all even relates to the topic I'm not so sure?...lol.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the man, in this case, Frederik. The support of his wife and family aside. And only when he succeeds, and has had time to re-establish himself in the role of Kingship will anyone, not least of all he himself, be able to gage his performance as sovereign.

And it shall be no different for any of his counterparts in this way.

grevinnan 01-17-2011 11:43 AM

(...)

My point is that the coming generation of regents will face unprecedented scrutiny either at the time of regent change or very soon after. Monarchies are no longer relevant. The ones that will survive for another generation will have to bring something very unique to their countries and we will not know who they are until the time comes.

I personally would love to all monarchies to remain and be viable in their countries. But I also believe it is up to the current "regents in training" to make it happen. That is a very tall order and only the fittest will have a chance. The question is - does Fredrik have what it takes? And I do not for a minute believe that had he or anyone else of the royals married another royalty that it would have made a difference.

Rascal 01-17-2011 11:54 AM

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that almost all of the current monarchs faced uncertainty/criticism at the time they ascended. Much of this has to do with the fact that even though the those who preceded them were raised, trained, and assessed according to a very different time, generally they were very much beloved by the citizens of their country. The current monarchs have all ridden the roller-coaster of approval but I can't help feeling that at the time they pass, those citizens will look upon them fondly and rally around their successors. None of them are without their critics, but for the most part they enjoy at least the affection of their people. Of all of them, QEII seems to enjoy the respect, admiration, to a certain extent the idolization (?) of the previous generation of Baudoins, George VIs, etc.

None of the current heirs faces an easy task as far as acceptance, even if they are held with more affection and admiration than those they succeed. And who knows what local, national, and global issues they will each have to face when they do ascend? I don't envy any of them and wish them all well.

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 11:56 AM

(...)

So let's talk about CP Frederik. As far as I'm concerned, CP Frederik alone bears the responsibility of determining what kind of King he will be. His wife is there to support him but she's not going to be the reigning monarch.
At some point, all excuses are moot. You can't blame his parents...his upbringing...his wife. There comes a time in every adult's life where we all have to take responsibility for the path ahead in our lives.:flowers:
I adore CP Frederik but I don't see him with rose-colored glasses or put him on a pedestle...because the only way from there is downwards.
His communication needs work and it is an integral part of his job...its not enough to be folksy or have the common touch. And yes, when his mother dies, that will be the true test of his new reign, as it will be for all the monarchs-in-waiting.

sgl 01-17-2011 11:56 AM

Muhler-I agree with you regarding the way that Frederik speaks. I neither speak nor understand Danish, but when I listen to other Danes speak (including Queen Margrethe), I notice a big difference from the speech patterns of Frederik. It seems like he can't organize his thoughts in a way conducive to smooth speech. I believe that you mentioned this previously, Muhler. I wonder if perhaps this could be a learning disability? I wonder if, like when treating dyslexia, there is a way to learn to organize thoughts and to process information in a more organized way? It is interesting to learn that he did go through training in public speaking. I wonder if perhaps it was ineffective because it didn't help him to organize his thoughts enough? I'd be curious to know what type of training he received. (yes, I'm a teacher-that's why I'm wondering about his training and background)

UserDane 01-17-2011 12:10 PM

I think we overestimate how critical times we live in. There have been times previously where the relevance and the future of the monarchy as an institution has been questioned even more.
Margrethe II became queen during the 70s which to me seemed to have been a much more radical time; I was a child when she became queen and I had very royalist grandparents who all agreed that she probably 'did not have what it takes'.
She has proved them wrong; she did have what it takes. She just did it differently from her father. Frederik will do things differently - and Christian after him, so the discussion of suitability as a king/queen will be a recurring one for many generations.

Grevinnan, I enjoy reading your posts and take on things. I just don't understand why it has to end by implying that CPss Mary is a Prada addict. It really detracts from the quality of an otherwise excellent post (and of course I am one of those who believe that unless some impartial body does a stocktaking of all CPss' wardrobes etc. and see their clothing outlays it's sensible to be careful with ones prejudices. Just my opinion of course).

Rascal 01-17-2011 12:15 PM

I wonder if it has to do with the context of the situation. For example, according to some previous posts, he seemed more relaxed, witty, and charming when speaking about the new twins and that he is better when he is unaware of cameras/media.

I know two people who are INCREDIBLE singers, but they could never make a living at it because their comfort level stops at church and small, intimate karaoke-type performances. To sing the national anthem in an auditorium or stadium or perform in front of a large crowd terrifies them.

Maybe that is part of the communication challenges Fred may face. Due to his military training (with which I am not completely familiar) I assume he has been in some sort of leadership role. Because in the military usually one must be precise, maybe he is direct and effective in that setting. I haven't seen any footage of him in a command position, so maybe he is very capable and comfortable in that arena. Perhaps if he treated his role more like one in the military he would come across differently?

Muhler 01-17-2011 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatos (Post 1193178)
Muhler-I agree with you regarding the way that Frederik speaks. I neither speak nor understand Danish, but when I listen to other Danes speak (including Queen Margrethe), I notice a big difference from the speech patterns of Frederik. It seems like he can't organize his thoughts in a way conducive to smooth speech. I believe that you mentioned this previously, Muhler. I wonder if perhaps this could be a learning disability?

That's a very good point.

I must confess I know very little about such (I hesitate to call it a disabillity) a condition. Perhaps someone knows more?

If, repeat if, Frederik were to suffer from such a condition (provided it exisits) that would turn things around 180 degrees. Not least if he went public.

The main theroy I personally lean to right now is that Frederik hasn't met someone who is willing to knock him hard on the head: "Frederik, you suck at expressing yourself. Shut up, sit down and listen"!
Who is going to say that? Mary, who loves him? His friends, who go into a defensive mode and form cordon around him? A civil servant who has been given the task of advising him - the future king?
From biographies and from people talking about Frederik, I have the distinct impression that he is a very stubborn man, in the will-strong sense. He will not quit!
That got him through the training as a Frogman and through the Sirius trek. Joachim has told in an anecdote that the mere suggestion that something is not possible is a sure way to lure Frederik into doing.
Maybe this same strongwillled facet of his character, prevents him from taking a step back and say: "This doesn't work. Perhaps I should try another approach? Perhaps I need help"?
I know, I know, this is pure speculation.

I really like your point, Gatos, that would explain so much. It's absolutely worth considering.

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 12:22 PM

Interesting view point Rascal! I never thought of that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1193191)
That's a very good point.

I must confess I know very little about such (I hesitate to call it a disabillity) a condition. Perhaps someone knows more?

If, repeat if, Frederik were to suffer from such a condition (provided it exisits) that would turn things around 180 degrees. Not least if he went public.

The main theroy I personally lean to right now is that Frederik hasn't met someone who is willing to knock him hard on the head: "Frederik, you suck at expressing yourself. Shut up, sit down and listen"!
Who is going to say that? Mary, who loves him? His friends, who go into a defensive mode and form cordon around him? A civil servant who has been given the task of advising him - the future king?
From biographies and from people talking about Frederik, I have the distinct impression that he is a very stubborn man, in the will-strong sense. He will not quit!
That got him through the training as a Frogman and through the Sirius trek. Joachim has told in an anecdote that the mere suggestion that something is not possible is a sure way to lure Frederik into doing.
Maybe this same strongwillled facet of his character, prevents him from taking a step back and say: "This doesn't work. Perhaps I should try another approach? Perhaps I need help"?
I know, I know, this is pure speculation.

I really like your point, Gatos, that would explain so much. It's absolutely worth considering.

But a question I have...what was Queen Margrethe's speech pattern like when she was younger? Is CP Frederik like his mother in that sense? Or was Queen Margrethe always as articulate as she is today?

nwinther 01-17-2011 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1193164)
I thought we were discussing one aspect of Frederik. I.e. how he speaks in public.

Silly me!

Is it possible to get back on topic? - Frederik, and not his wife.

I'll try.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Muhler. Frederiks speech is that of a teenager, imo. He can't say a sentence without using words like "totally", "extreme(ly)" and "fantastic", making most of his talk undignified. And usually, he paints himself into a corner, by starting with how "totally awesome" something is - and where do you go from there?

For instance (made up from memory):

Journalist: "How did the hospital staff treat you?"
CPF: "Oh, fantastic. We've been treated extremely well".

Hmm... I think. What does it mean to be "extremely well treated"? Because, it's by definition better than "adequately", "Nicely" or "very well/satisfactory".
In the end, the sentence doesn't make any sense.

Journalist: "What is it like to get twins?"
CPF: "It's... It's... Totally fantastic".

Again - what does that mean. It's not "overwhelming", as I'd perhaps put it. It's not even fantastic - no, it's "Totally fantastic".

And it's not as if CPF came stumbling out the elevator, looking like he fell from the moon, utter disbelieving that a phenomenon such as twins was possible. It usually sounds like he simply doesn't have a better vocabulary. I imagine, if you ask him what he thinks of the upholstry on a chair he'd say the same "Extremely fantastic", when it's really just... you know... Meh.

Add to that, CPF speeks in something reminding me of studders and surprise - as if someone put a gun to his head and asked "What's the square root of 37?".

CPF is rarely challenged by the questions the press asks. Recently, with the twins, he could pretty much guess what they'd ask - and prepare a dignified answer. He's never asked to give some deep analysis of a subject, and when he'd confronted with something controversial, like his IOC-membership, it's happned in a forum for just that.

And add to that, the man is a trained officer and commander of men. He's been trained in giving clear orders and answers. And while journalists aren't looking for him to bark his answers at them, surely it would put him in a position to thing about a proper answer.

To me, using words like "fantastic" "totally" etc. is like hugging and (air)kissing the cheeks of some peripheral accuaintance - or even a close family member - every time you meet them. Problem is - where do you go from there? If hugging is your standard greeting, what do you do when you have really missed them, or have extremely good/sad news? Take your clothes off and pet heavily? It doesn't get bigger than "totally" (what a horrible word) or "extremely". So when the color of the kitchen floor is "Totally fantastic", what do you say when your wife asks you about your feelings regarding her victory over cancer?

Now, Benedicte suggests that his speech is (she won't say incoherent, but something to that effect) challenged, because he's trying to come up with a unassailable, academic answer. Well, he's still got that cherry to pop IMO. Theres not the least academic in his speech - it's hardly even grown-up talk.

IMO Joachim is much better formulated - even regarding questions he's had little or no time to prepare himself for. Personally I find Joachim more graceful in his language and public appearences than CPF and would, imo., make a more dignified king.

However, CPF will surely make a satisfactory king, and I have no fantasies about PJ taking over - so don't go there. Plus, CPF found a wife who makes up for most of CPF's failings - and then we all win in the end.

Muhler 01-17-2011 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1193199)
But a question I have...what was Queen Margrethe's speech pattern like when she was younger? Is CP Frederik like his mother in that sense? Or was Queen Margrethe always as articulate as she is today?

QMII has always been very articulate. She was however very shy and insecure and she constantly stumbled over the words, and still do. But she had no problem getting her meaing across.

This, almost spooky parody, shows how she was when she turned 60.
Ignore what is being said, look at her (his) bodylanguage and nervous bahavior. It's spot on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2AdUygjUwY

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 12:35 PM

Quote:

CPF found a wife who makes up for most of CPF's failings
Well...that's not good enough IMO. His wife isn't going to rule...He is. A supportive wife can't be his continuous savior. Let me reinterate, I adore the man...but where constructive criticim is warranted...it has to be taken note of.

I'm not going to get in to the Joachim issue as he isn't going to be King and comparison between Frederik and his brother is not the topic of this thread.

This is about CP Frederik...and him only.

nwinther 01-17-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 1193191)
The main theroy I personally lean to right now is that Frederik hasn't met someone who is willing to knock him hard on the head: "Frederik, you suck at expressing yourself. Shut up, sit down and listen"!
Who is going to say that? Mary, who loves him? His friends, who go into a defensive mode and form cordon around him? A civil servant who has been given the task of advising him - the future king?
From biographies and from people talking about Frederik, I have the distinct impression that he is a very stubborn man, in the will-strong sense. He will not quit!

I don't buy it. There's been plenty of third-hand reports for Frederick to have totally missed it. So Frederik should have brought it up himself if noone else would. A sense of self (selverkendelse in danish) is one of the finest qualities in any man, most of all a king.
Besides - surely there are times when your loved ones can say to you, that there's something you have to work on regarding your behaviour etc. - Hell, even a friend or colleague can passingly say something in a closed forum.

If Frederik doesn't have anyone around him, who's willing to tell him the truth, or if Frederik is simply too stubborn to admit he need help in some areas - well, he's in for a hellish ride, I'd say. IMO, there's nothing embarrasing about training your public speaking skills - in fact, I admire people who own up to their own shortcomings.

If he has a medical (or mental) condition/block, I think he should let that fact seep to the press, and then make an article about it.
IIRC, CP Victoria got quite the boost talking abour anorexia and dyslexia.
Is there anything grander, than people who are honestly trying to better themselves? That's why I hate politicians and journalists so much. That and the fact that they are despicable vermin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1193211)
Well...that's not good enough IMO. His wife isn't going to rule...He is. A supportive wife can't be his continuous savior.

It's worked before. Queen Ingrid was very much the stabilizing factor in the lives of her and King Frederik IX. Granted, she was a princess from birth - but it was Ingrid who held things together when it came to "formalia".

Muhler 01-17-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwinther (Post 1193216)
I. IMO, there's nothing embarrasing about training your public speaking skills - in fact, I admire people who own up to their own shortcomings.

Is there anything grander, than people who are honestly trying to better themselves?

Agree whole heartedly.

Self aknowledgment and the willingness to ask for help when you need it are praiseworthy traits.

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 12:49 PM

Quote:

If he has a medical (or mental) condition/block, I think he should let that fact seep to the press, and then make an article about it.

Really?...or would the same press and critics turn around and use it against him even more?:sad: And you're right...too many articles have been written about his poor communication skills for for him not to be aware...especially in connection to his candidature for the IOC.

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That's why I hate politicians and journalists so much. That and the fact that they are despicable vermin.
:lol::rofl:

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Originally Posted by nwinther (Post 1193223)
It's worked before. Queen Ingrid was very much the stabilizing factor in the lives of her and King Frederik IX. Granted, she was a princess from birth - but it was Ingrid who held things together when it came to "formalia".

You said it! She was a princess from birth - that makes all of the difference for some people.
In addition, these are very different times for monarchies!:flowers:

mrsbugman 01-17-2011 01:19 PM

Isn't this the whole subject of King George, and QEQM lives. The movie The "Kings Speech". The wife steps in and helps the husband.

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 01:34 PM

Yes it is!:flowers: Don't get me wrong...I am not dismissing the support that CP Frederk receives from his wife...or the support that Queen Ingrid gave to Frederik IX or that King George received from Queen Elizabeth.

I am focusing on CP Frederik and what he can do to improve his speech patterns, and ultimately, his communication skills with the media and public. Afterall, he chose to put himself forward as the Danish candidate for the IOC, one of the most political sports organizations around...and his communication style and media skills are very important.

Duke of Marmalade 01-17-2011 01:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Terri Terri (Post 1193211)
Well...that's not good enough IMO. His wife isn't going to rule...He is. A supportive wife can't be his continuous savior.

It has worked in Sweden, where Silvia made up for the King's shortcomings. I am sure Mary will play a vital role in Frederiks concept of reign.

Whether Frederik is suitable or not as King we will only see from when his reign starts. It depends how his shortcomings are being perceived by the Danes. So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King? Similar to all other heirs, the cost/benefit ratio will apply much more to him than it did to his predecessor.

Tilla 01-17-2011 01:53 PM

Well, he certainly has quite a panoply of all categories of teachers, consultants etc. at his disposal, and why not psychologists, as , unfortunately, it seems he had a difficult childhood.

Muhler 01-17-2011 02:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 1193251)
ItWhether Frederik is suitable or not as King we will only see from when his reign starts. It depends how his shortcomings are being perceived by the Danes. So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King?

That's the question. It of course depends on what you expect and how you view him, not least in the chosen role he will and is taking on.

Personally I first and foremost view him based on how he is as a husband, father and human being. - In that respect I see him as an excellent role model. This is where I personally feel I can relate to him.

I respect him for his accomplishments in the Frogman Corps and in Sirius, but these achievements are not that important in his role as a king.

It's no secret that I'm less impressed with him when it comes to presenting and representing. I believe he needs help and he needs to ask for help.

I acknowledge his endearing appeal to a wide segment of the population, which should not be underestimated. - It may be that I look too much at his qualifications rather than his human traits.

I believe Frederik and the Danes are very fortunate in having Mary by his side. She is in my opinion clearly his rock, his base, and they supplement each other extremely well, not least when on the job together.

Terri Terri 01-17-2011 02:12 PM

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So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King?
Good point. And I don't think we want a perfect CP Frederik or a perfect King Frederik...there are no perfect human beings. We are discussing a required improvement in his speech and communication skills. Its training...if you are expecting a "promotion"...then you need the skills required to do the job.
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it seems he had a difficult childhood
o.k...he may have had a difficult childhood...but he is now a 42 year old married man and father of 4 children. Suppose it takes years for him to become King...can a "difficult childhood" be used for a lack of communication skills still? IMO...the answer to that is "No".

Susanna Wynne 01-17-2011 02:57 PM

I do not speak Danish, but I am a well-practiced speaker of English, and am aware of the nuances of both American and British English. Younger British English speakers all use "fantastic" "brilliant" "massive" and so on. I notice this from people a generation down from me, which would be Frederik's generation. Certainly I notice this in Prince William's speech patterns, but also in news interviews with journalists under, for example, 50 or 55. It may be that Frederik, who speaks excellent English and certainly speaks English at least some of the time at home, considering it is the CPsesse's native tongue, is quite influenced by such constructions and this more youthful manner of expression.

His English in the presser was quite good. And he certainly showed flashes of wit, without which he would be quite a dullard. Wit, perforce, requires intelligence.

Again, I cannot evaluate his Danish, but is it so much worse than his English?? I would be surprised. I am interested in hearing on this point from other forum members...

Willem-Alexander's English is quite good, but is without the sense of good humour that both Pr. William and CP Frederik readily display.

TLLK 01-17-2011 03:11 PM

IMO, I've always perceived from CP Frederik that he appears to be very apprehensive about his future role. I sense a certain reluctance in his speech, posture and facial expressions when he is interviewed. Now I believe that all of the current adult Crown Princes/Princess have felt anxiety or even episodes of self-doubt regarding their future roles. However, it appears to me that the rest of them have become more comfortable with their futures. I hope that Frederik will too.


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