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-   -   Was 'The Oval' in Althorp the right place to bury Diana? (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/was-the-oval-in-althorp-the-right-place-to-bury-diana-13507.html)

Panicgrl 08-08-2007 02:41 PM

Since she didn't specify where she wanted to be buried, I think you would have to asked Princes William and Harry what they wanted. If they wanted her there, then it is respectful.

I kind of like the idea of her being on the island. I think its a allusion to much of her life. In the midst of her marriage and fame as POW, she felt very alone and isolated.

No matter what, her children can always change their minds when William is King. The Frogmore grounds hold Queen Victoria,some of her descendents, and many others of the Royal Family. I don't think she would have wanted to be buried there. But that is just my humble opinion.

BeatrixFan 08-08-2007 02:55 PM

Quote:

Hitler isn't an icon he's the most famous maniac of the 20th century.
He spoke very highly of you. Ok, he's not an icon, he's a famous figure.

GillW 08-08-2007 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTruth (Post 651206)
It still bothers me that she's alone over there. People reproach to some Diana fans to be in mourning even after 10 years but how can you say goodbye to someone who is 'untouchable', buried where nobody can go ?
It would do a hell of a good for some persons to bring flowers on her grave. There were millions in front of BP and KP but it's not the same thing, people were in shock at that time, it was a crowd reaction. To be able to drop a note or flowers close to her would be the best thing to show that we don't forget her.

Well I've been to Althorp several times both before and after Diana''s death. When I first went the island was a very quiet, peaceful place, and perfectly beautiful - I can see why they must have loved it as a haven for play.

The public can and do bring many floral and other tributes which are laid in or near the little "temple" and stay there until they fade, throughout the opening period. But no-one can get close enough to intrude or desecrate the grave-site.

Although there is nowadays a better pathway around the lake and the grounds there are more landscaped, it still seems a wonderful place for Diana to rest. She is finally safe and has a wonderful private sanctuary - something I'm sure she would have loved many times in her life.

Elspeth 08-08-2007 03:18 PM

Quote:

Since she didn't specify where she wanted to be buried, I think you would have to asked Princes William and Harry what they wanted. If they wanted her there, then it is respectful.
Trouble is, they were rather young at the time, and not equipped to get in the middle of the battle between Earl Spencer and the Royal Household. You'd think Diana had left her wedding dress to Earl Spencer, considering how fast it went on display at Althorp, and I've wondered a few times what the Princes thought of that, considering how presumably her wedding dress belonged to them after her death. Between Spencer helping himself to stuff to create a paying attraction at the museum at Althorp and Paul Burrell taking it upon himself to store vast quantities of things of Diana's (which really means "of William's and Harry's") for "safe keeping" even after William turned 18, it doesn't sound as though anybody really cares all that much what the Princes wanted to have done, and I don't suppose Diana's burial place was any different.

Henri M. 08-08-2007 03:23 PM

My answer is: yes!

The island is an unique place for an unique person. I think that most of us would dream to be buried in such a paradiselike green island in the middle of swan lake on the own ancestral home.

So: yes.

:flowers:

Panicgrl 08-08-2007 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth (Post 651282)
Trouble is, they were rather young at the time, and not equipped to get in the middle of the battle between Earl Spencer and the Royal Household. You'd think Diana had left her wedding dress to Earl Spencer, considering how fast it went on display at Althorp, and I've wondered a few times what the Princes thought of that, considering how presumably her wedding dress belonged to them after her death. Between Spencer helping himself to stuff to create a paying attraction at the museum at Althorp and Paul Burrell taking it upon himself to store vast quantities of things of Diana's (which really means "of William's and Harry's") for "safe keeping" even after William turned 18, it doesn't sound as though anybody really cares all that much what the Princes wanted to have done, and I don't suppose Diana's burial place was any different.


I would hate to be in there shoes dealing with the loss of their Mother. Its bad enough it was a horrible tragedy, but the "friends" and family (The Earl) who are willing to "pimp" (for lack of a better term) Diana's memory must be so sad. Pretty soon the woman who did her pedicures will come forward and sell her story.

I think the boys have carried themselves with the utmost dignity, and I don't see them moving her remains. But you are right, I can't help but wonder if they were involved in the decision making process in any way.

BeatrixFan 08-08-2007 04:45 PM

Quote:

You'd think Diana had left her wedding dress to Earl Spencer, considering how fast it went on display at Althorp.
Hence why I think my great-grandmother had the right idea. She was buried in her wedding dress and my great-grandfather said it was so they ended their marriage as they'd begun it - with her looking radiant. Quite romantic. Then again I'm not an Earl (I may be an old Queen but I'm not an Earl) and I would have better taste.

scooter 08-08-2007 04:55 PM

I wouldn be surprised if they publicly said we buried her on the island and then privately/secretly buried her with her ancesters in the church. This way she gets an unharassed death (if not life). Not to mention then the revenues show up at Althorp!

Henri M. 08-08-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 651336)
I wouldn be surprised if they publicly said we buried her on the island and then privately/secretly buried her with her ancesters in the church. This way she gets an unharassed death (if not life). Not to mention then the revenues show up at Althorp!

That is unlikely. There are formal requirements regarding funerals, at least there are at the Continent and I can not imagine it is different on the British Isles across the Channel. For an example an official record must be made by the authorities, etc.

You are implying that various civil servants involved with the burial of the late Diana, including the staff of the funerary enterprise, the Vicar of the local parish, etc. say A but in reality know that it B. And that they have succesfully kept it secret for 10 years. And it would also imply The Earl Spencer is selling tickets for visitors to see an empty grave and that the two sons are okay with it.

No, we simply can be sure that the remains of the late Diana are buried on ancestral ground, on that little island indeed.

BeatrixFan 08-08-2007 06:34 PM

We simply can't be sure. We can't be sure of anything. She could have been buried in the Hard Rock Cafe Orlando for all we know. People want a shrine, the Spencers give them a shrine. Far worse things have been covered up that an empty tomb.

Panicgrl 08-08-2007 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 651377)
We simply can't be sure. We can't be sure of anything. She could have been buried in the Hard Rock Cafe Orlando for all we know. People want a shrine, the Spencers give them a shrine. Far worse things have been covered up that an empty tomb.



I live in Orlando, I can assure you she's not here, but you gave me a giggle!

Elspeth 08-08-2007 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 651328)
Hence why I think my great-grandmother had the right idea. She was buried in her wedding dress and my great-grandfather said it was so they ended their marriage as they'd begun it - with her looking radiant. Quite romantic. Then again I'm not an Earl (I may be an old Queen but I'm not an Earl) and I would have better taste.

Not everybody can fit into their wedding dress at the time they die, you know! The Queen Mum would have had a bit of trouble, for one thing.

Anyway, it was really nice to see the display of wedding dresses from Queen Victoria's to Queen Elizabeth's at Kensington Palace a few years ago, which wouldn't have been possible if they'd been buried in them; it's just a shame that Diana's wasn't there as well.

scooter 08-08-2007 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henri M. (Post 651354)
That is unlikely. There are formal requirements regarding funerals, at least there are at the Continent and I can not imagine it is different on the British Isles across the Channel. For an example an official record must be made by the authorities, etc.

You are implying that various civil servants involved with the burial of the late Diana, including the staff of the funerary enterprise, the Vicar of the local parish, etc. say A but in reality know that it B. And that they have succesfully kept it secret for 10 years. And it would also imply The Earl Spencer is selling tickets for visitors to see an empty grave and that the two sons are okay with it.

No, we simply can be sure that the remains of the late Diana are buried on ancestral ground, on that little island indeed.

No Henri, I am not 'implying it' I am suggesting that it might well be the case. I think that Charles Spencer could have asked the vicar etc to 'help his martyred sister have eternal rest with her ancestors' without danger of the loons, whether those that loved her or hated her, from desecrating her grave. I think, given the mood at the time, that there is very little that would have been refused the family. And there were,of course, no witnesses to the 'private' interrment.

ysbel 08-08-2007 07:54 PM

I think William was asked to put on the mantle of adulthood enough when his mother was alive and she depended upon his emotional support and advice for situations far beyond his young years.

I don't think it would have been appropriate to burden William and Harry so soon after their mother's death with decisions on how to conduct their mother's burial and dispose of her property seeing that they were the tender ages of 16 and 14.

scooter 08-08-2007 08:07 PM

Wasn't Harry barely 13?

ysbel 08-08-2007 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 651397)
Wasn't Harry barely 13?

You're right. Harry was not yet 13 and William had just turned 15. Too young to make decisions about their mother's burial.

GillW 08-09-2007 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 651392)
No Henri, I am not 'implying it' I am suggesting that it might well be the case. I think that Charles Spencer could have asked the vicar etc to 'help his martyred sister have eternal rest with her ancestors' without danger of the loons, whether those that loved her or hated her, from desecrating her grave. I think, given the mood at the time, that there is very little that would have been refused the family. And there were,of course, no witnesses to the 'private' internment.

Of course there were witnesses - there were pallbearers who transported & lowered the coffin into the army-prepared grave. There were the family who accompanied it to the island and all the estate staff who saw that happen.

Since media interest was present at the exits of the estate for a good period following hte funeral any possible movement of a coffin could not have gone unnoticed. The church at Gt Brington is very close to the estate, very small, and the whole village would easily have known that the sealed underground Spencer family vault had been disturbed.


If we back track further - there are those who say she was "secretly cremated" (in the family oven, or on a bonfire, maybe... :bang: ) and her ashes added to the vault - same thing, it would need opening & resealing...

We have witnesses who visited her lying at rest in London up to the evening prior to the funeral, in buildings surrounded permanently by thousands of mourning public, so she was still there until the funeral left. The coffin was carried by soldiers, one of whom was the nephew of a friend of mine, who assures me they were not carrying an empty coffin. From the Abbey, the world watched every inch of the way of the drive to Althorp.

If anyone suggests Diana was not present in the coffin at her own funeral you're also asking us to believe that her young sons were either deceived that she was there or complicit in a cover up - neither of which I find credible.

I believe she IS buried on the island and I believe too that she will remain there AND that it is the best place for her possibly to be.

Henri M. 08-09-2007 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 651392)
No Henri, I am not 'implying it' I am suggesting that it might well be the case. I think that Charles Spencer could have asked the vicar etc to 'help his martyred sister have eternal rest with her ancestors' without danger of the loons, whether those that loved her or hated her, from desecrating her grave. I think, given the mood at the time, that there is very little that would have been refused the family. And there were,of course, no witnesses to the 'private' interrment.

The Vicar and the church's verger should then be aware of this burial in the Saint Mary The Virgin Church in Great Brington. A local contractor would have been hired to remove the marble plates of the Spencer mausoleum and create a space for the coffin to be interred (and then to close the grave again).

The people from the funerary enterprise who were the pallbearers and place the coffin into its resting place would have witnessed it as well.

And the locals of Great Brington (a few hundred) who live in a very small community must have known about activities going on in their church. With vans outside, a dig machine. Police. A hearse and royals. It is impossible that this could have gone unnoticed and remained secret for 10 years. And that in a country where The Mirror, The Sun and their equivalents can not wait to bribe the people involved and to scream the truth from the headlines....

Christo's Girl 08-11-2007 03:47 PM

Diana said specifically that she wanted to be buried. Even though this was her wish I sometimes think it would have been nice if she had chosen cremation. That way William and Harry could have kept her ashes where ever they wanted.

BeatrixFan 08-11-2007 03:50 PM

Or she could have gone down the Queen Marie of Romania road who had her heart buried in one palace and had her body buried in another.


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