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Mbruno 04-05-2018 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyevale (Post 2089670)
Time and time again the 'emeritus' Queen has ensured SHE is publicly seen and photographed with the daughters of the King and Queen, in a way that can only be a way of keeping herself 'in the public eye'. Her Husband has 'faded from view' to a far greater degree [perhaps because he is frail], but [it seems to me] Queen Sofia is reluctant to be similarly 'retiring' or let the Reigning 'Kings' take centre stage, as they SHOULD..

The career of Queen Frederika of Greece is well known [and easily examined online], and it seems to me Queen Sofia is [in many ways] 'cut from the same cloth'.. Steely, determined and HIGHLY manipulative, qualities that may [or may not] be appreciated by family members...

Queen Sofia is 79 years old, a "queen mother" who is no longer a full-time working royal, and one of the most respected royal ladies in Europe not only for her service to her family and her adopted country as a former queen consort, but for her life history, her pose, dignity and distinguished ancestry. It is preposterous to suggest that she would "use" her granddaughters to "promote her image" (as if it needed any "promoting") or "to stay in the public eye". On the contrary, since the abdication, Queen Sofia has gracefully bowed out of official engagements (not attending state banquets for example, unlike Princess Beatrix), precisely not to overshadow Letizia and her son.

I have to agree with Duc et Pair that trying to paint Sofia as the villain in this episode doesn't square off. Let's review the facts:

  1. The photo didn't represent any media intrusion on the privacy of the princesses as it was being taken by an official photographer for Queen Sofia's personal use. There was no basis for the claim then that Letizia was a concerned mother "defending the girls" from the paparazzi or unauthorized public exposure of their image.
  2. Taking the picture would take no more than a minute or so, and would not dramatically distract the princesses from greeting the crowd or prevent other people behind from leaving the church. In any case, even if we accepted the premise that Letizia was concerned that taking a picture at that moment inside the chuirch would be inappropriate, that still does not explain why she once again tried to prevent Queen Sofia from taking a picture with her granddaughters when they were alone outside the cathedral.
  3. Again, prior to Letizia's unjustified tantrum, the princesses were perfectly comfortable posing for a quick picture with their grandmother. Queen Sofia was not being abusive or forcing the princesses to do anything they didn't want to do. Both Queen Letizia and Queen Sofia were, however, physically abusive when they started "fighting" for Leonor, who understandably felt uncomfortable and reacted instinctively. Afterwards, however, Leonor didn't seem to bear any resentment against Queen Sofia or avoid her, which reinforces that trying to paint Queen Sofia as some kind of child molester is completely contrary to the facts.
I also find ironic that, in an age where most people take frivolous and IMHO completely unnncessay selfies to document every trivial moment of their plainly ordinary lives, Queen Sofia is being accused of being manipulative and selfish because she wanted to take a picture with her two granddaughters, whom she rarely sees BTW, on a special family occasion like an Easter Sunday Mass !

tommy100 04-05-2018 03:41 PM

I have to say I do think its all getting a bit out of hand. At the end of the day a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law disagree, centered around the children....that happens the world over every day pretty much!

Of course though these are Royals and they should know better. Personally I see nothing wrong in what Sofia did until she pulled perhaps a bit too hard on the girls insistant on the picture being taken. Other than that why shouldn't a grandmother be allowed a picture with her grand daughters? Even better here as its a nice "generational" style picture the Royal Court could use.
I really don't understand Letizia's issue with it, and that is IMO the problem, it tells immediately of a bigger issues because there is no good reason to prevent the picture unless there is an issue between Sofia and Letizia.
I've always had quite good opinions of both Queens and this has only gone about changing my opinion of Letizia for the worse. It reminded me, I think it was the abdication of Juan Carlos, when she was sat glaring at the girls demonstrating and urging them to sit still and properly. At the time I thought it was quite cute, mum reminding the girls to sit properly like Princesses. Now I look at it, it speaks more to a mother trying to be in control at all times, something this incident may also suggest.
Her "friends" suggesting this is all because she worries about who takes pictures of the girls is rubbish. This was the official Royal House photographer, lets be honest, the only photographer there whom Letizia could summon to her office later and demand all the pictures he took destroyed and no one would ever know. Its a cover aimed at getting Letizia sympathy because no one wants to be seen as saying let anyone take photos of the girls. It was a picture with their grandmother who also happens to be a Queen who served her country for decades, Sofia has shown no malice towards her granddaughters that we know so even if she is overly affectionate, well there are worse things!
The fact the Spanish media and MC seem so quick to damn Letizia is something the new Queen should IMO be worried about. Yes its gone to far, even MC commenting is far too far, but booing and asking for divorce is crazy. That said, think on Letizia- all this over a private family moment, god help you if you do something wrong officially!

Somebody 04-05-2018 03:41 PM

The video clearly shows that having a picture taken with the two girls and one other female member of the family isn't the issue as Letizia is posing with her daughters when they arrive at the altar!

Furthermore, it shows that Letizia is keeping an eye on her daughters the whole time and moves them around like props :flowers:

And as has been said before, she is there because she has to. Her husband and daughters make a cross, Letizia is looking away.

Kitty1224 04-05-2018 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2089615)
Yet again Spains RF are making world headlines but for the wrong reasons :sad:

Booing Letizia and asking the king to divorce her along with the social media jibes on Leonor are not at all nice.

They are actually booing Letizia? It does seem like the SRF only get worldwide headlines when things goes south. That's not a good representation of the monarchy which is so fragile right now.

Muhler 04-05-2018 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish_royalist (Post 2089671)
For some strange reason, I have become obsessed with this thread! Not quite sure why - I think it's because for once, 'the light has been let in on the magic' of 'being a Royal.' We have seen a certain amount of jealousy which has occurred between a person and their in-laws - something which happens in pretty much 90% of families, I would imagine.
Who knows whether Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, can't stand Princess Beatrice of York, or whether King Constantine hated spending time with his late brother-in-law, Prince Hendrik - we just don't know this, as smiles normally reign supreme in Royal circles.
I have gone between feeling sorry for Queen Sofia, and Queen Letitia, and then the Princess of Asturias, and I just can't work out who is in the wrong here. Maybe no one is???
One thing which stands out is the maturity and Majesty of King Felipe, who seems to be such a wonderful King of Spain - and I hope for his sake that this family disagreement blows over soon (I know that they have all the privileges of Royalty, but how many of us would like our 'familial dirty laundry' aired in public like this?)

With the exception of the children, all are to be blamed in one way or another.
That includes the SRF, the friends and extended family, the media and also the public.

It's logic: If you treat a person with animosity, you get animosity and hostility in return. - That applies very much to the press and the public as well.
If you support one side in a conflict, the conflict will continue.- Family and friends.
Both Kings have failed as well. If you don't put your foot down and end a conflict, it will flare up. That's their duty. If need be get counseling. Sometimes you can't placate all.
If you don't do your utmost to reconcile and show restraint, you will fight again and again, and one day you will fight in public. In royal circles that is unprofessional, both Queens were unprofessional.

But royals are humans too and there are similar conflicts in every reasonably sized family. And sometimes it boils over.

I don't think King Felipe now has any choice but to call in counseling. Otherwise this will continue and one day Queen Letizia may reach the point where she genuinely feels abandoned by her husband - regardless of who is to blame for this mess, regardless of who is in the wrong, because this is now about feelings - that she may divorce him. De facto or for real.
If I was his chief advisor or the Spanish PM, I would say: Counseling. Now!

moby 04-05-2018 03:50 PM

Even the New York Times weighed in a little on the incident, and expertly played with a Tolstoy quote while they're at it:

"...and to paraphrase Tolstoy, while all happy families are alike, this seemingly unhappy family has had its own political trials and tribulations."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/w...een-sofia.html

lula 04-05-2018 03:55 PM

Somebody ... Letizia is not posing, she does not even look at the cameras. She and the girls stay behind because Juan Carlos and Sofia must go to the bank first.

Juliette2 04-05-2018 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish_royalist (Post 2089671)
For some strange reason, I have become obsessed with this thread! Not quite sure why - I think it's because for once, 'the light has been let in on the magic' of 'being a Royal.' We have seen a certain amount of jealousy which has occurred between a person and their in-laws - something which happens in pretty much 90% of families, I would imagine.
Who knows whether Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, can't stand Princess Beatrice of York, or whether King Constantine hated spending time with his late brother-in-law, Prince Hendrik - we just don't know this, as smiles normally reign supreme in Royal circles.
I have gone between feeling sorry for Queen Sofia, and Queen Letitia, and then the Princess of Asturias, and I just can't work out who is in the wrong here. Maybe no one is???
One thing which stands out is the maturity and Majesty of King Felipe, who seems to be such a wonderful King of Spain - and I hope for his sake that this family disagreement blows over soon (I know that they have all the privileges of Royalty, but how many of us would like our 'familial dirty laundry' aired in public like this?)

Me, too Irish_Royalist.
I agree with your post completely!

Dalriada 04-05-2018 03:59 PM

New from El Pais...
Spain’s King Felipe and Queen Letizia: How the relationship between the two queens of Spain started to sour | In English | EL PAÍS - https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/04/05...68_179851.html

Somebody 04-05-2018 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2089692)
Somebody ... Letizia is not posing, she does not even look at the cameras. She and the girls stay behind because Juan Carlos and Sofia must go to the bank first.

I am pretty sure she is posing for the photographer who is up front/to the side (as he will be taking pictures when they are all seated as well); earlier he can be seen checking out a good moment and it most likely him who is giving audible directions about looking into the camera). She even acknowledges him before turning around when Felipe pushes them forward, whose example then is followed by his daughters: doing what they were supposed to do when arriving at the altar: making a cross. Only a little later the shuffling into the bench starts.

Kitty1224 04-05-2018 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelot23ca (Post 2089652)
It’s not even close to the first time Letizia has set a foot wrong. She got off on the wrong foot with a lot of people with the engagement interview when she told the then Prince to let her finish speaking. Whether she was in the right or not - endlessly debateable - doesn’t matter. It didn’t look good.

It’s not even the first time she’s been publicly rude to Queen Sofia. There was a reception in Palma last summer, (maybe the summer before?) where Letizia very quickly and perfunctorily greeted the friendly crowd waiting - Felipe took twice as long to greet the same group of people - and then stalked past Sofia and the officials waiting at the entrance without looking at or speaking to any of them. This after Sofia made a point of ensuring Letizia was greeted before she was when they first arrived.

She snapped at a reporter who dared to ask Leonor a question last summer after the family visited a museum. What was the question? Something on the lines of, “did you enjoy your visit?”

She refused to spend more than five minutes greeting the gathered press at Marivent last summer and when Felipe seemed to suggest the family go down to - I’m guessing - at least say good bye to the gathered press, she refused. It’s beem suggested on here that her refusal to give even a little with the press is some sort of badge of honour and the mark of a strong character. Maybe, but if that’s the attitude you’re going to take you better make sure you never mess up, even a little, because they will then crucify you and make sure the incident is never, ever forgotten. As we’re seeing here.

And that’s just from the last year or two and doesn’t include the sometimes blatantly inappropriate fashion choices along with other appearance related issues that are off limits on this forum but which I think have very much shaped the image many people have of her as vain and superficial. It also doesn’t include the many, many, many rumours and stories out there of how she’s treated everyone from household staff, to other parents at her children’s school, to her own husband’s family members. If even 90 percent of the stories are untrue that still leaves a significant number of very unflattering truths.

I agree, the glee so many people are taking in Letizia’s public humiliation is grotesque - no one should be so publicly stoned, no matter what they’ve done. But the fact that the reaction has been so vehement should prompt some self evaluation on Letizia’s part regarding how things got to this point. Some of it may be jealousy or sexism or all the other excuses we’ve heard so often. But at least some of it is her own behaviour and if she does indeed have a truly strong character she’ll face up to that and adjust accordingly, for her own sake but, really, at this point, more for the sake of her daughter.

How does she feel about other royal families?

HereditaryPrincess 04-05-2018 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2089615)
Yet again Spains RF are making world headlines but for the wrong reasons :sad:

Booing Letizia and asking the king to divorce her along with the social media jibes on Leonor are not at all nice.

Yes; whilst it was not the best action to do in public booing Letizia only makes things worse. It was a bad move but it seems that the situation has been blown up much more than both queens probably expected, and the attacks on Leonor are completely unnecessary. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and she at her sister are not involved in this (although, as I said last night, other than the fact they are Letizia's daughters). It's been almost a week since the incident and international media sites are still discussing and posting about it; I wonder when it will simmer down. Maybe not until we see a pleasant exchange between the two queens when they are next in public together.

Alisa 04-05-2018 04:36 PM

Consider:

1. The photographer that the Queen appeared to summon for the photograph was from the royal house. This was not some paparazzi

2. The Queen herself admitted that she does not get to see her grandkids as much as she would like to. Whatever the reason behind, would it have been so bad for Letizia to allow Sofia to take one or 2 photographs? Had she not intervened by blocking the photograph there wouldn't have been an issue.

3. The idea that Letizia was protecting the image of her daughters is absurd. The were at a very public event and lots of photographers were present. This was not a private visit to a museum or concert. Moreover, the King was nearby and he obviously didn't see an issue with his mother gathering the girls for a picture. But for whatever reason Letizia had an issue with it.

Really a better course of action would have been for Letizia to whisper in Sofia's ear and state that she would rather not have such pics taken. Alternatively she could have gone to Felipe and spoken to him.

At times we have to forsake our rights for the sake of how things looks.

Kronprinz 04-05-2018 04:47 PM

Apparently there's even an hashtag going around #IstandwithLetizia

Alisa 04-05-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 2089677)

How does Sofia get from her place in the protocol behind the king to the front line? She even pushes Felipe a little to get to the photographer.:eek:

Now, that is a bit of exaggeration. She brushed passed Felipe. Also, there was clearly no protocol being followed as they were greeting the people and exiting the church. If that were to be true, how does Queen Letizia and the girls get ahead of the King if they were following protocol?

Letizia was in the wrong for blocking the pic. Things wouldn't be where they are now if she had let Sofia take her picture.

Nothing wrong with criticizing her or any other royal. They are humans.

leidi 04-05-2018 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa (Post 2089714)
Consider:

1. The photographer that the Queen appeared to summon for the photograph was from the royal house. This was not some paparazzi

2. The Queen herself admitted that she does not get to see her grandkids as much as she would like to. Whatever the reason behind, would it have been so bad for Letizia to allow Sofia to take one or 2 photographs? Had she not intervened by blocking the photograph there wouldn't have been an issue.

3. The idea that Letizia was protecting the image of her daughters is absurd. The were at a very public event and lots of photographers were present. This was not a private visit to a museum or concert. Moreover, the King was nearby and he obviously didn't see an issue with his mother gathering the girls for a picture. But for whatever reason Letizia had an issue with it.

Really a better course of action would have been for Letizia to whisper in Sofia's ear and state that she would rather not have such pics taken. Alternatively she could have gone to Felipe and spoken to him.

At times we have to forsake our rights for the sake of how things looks.

Excellent points, this wouldn't have escalated if Letizia hadn't intervened, it would have been just another "oh, girls a bit annoyed by their grandma, kids will be kids" kind of thing. ;)

leidi 04-05-2018 05:06 PM

https://twitter.com/PratSandberg/sta...35712312987648

"Urdangarin, Barbara Rey's tapes, the Botswana elephant, Froilán or the compi-yogui are amateurs. Letizia is going to destroy the institution from the inside. Time will tell"

An Ard Ri 04-05-2018 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 2089732)
https://twitter.com/PratSandberg/sta...35712312987648

"Urdangarin, Barbara Rey's tapes, the Botswana elephant, Froilán or the compi-yogui are amateurs. Letizia is going to destroy the institution from the inside. Time will tell"


Who is Joaquín Prat?

Princess Xenia 04-05-2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2089734)
Who is Joaquín Prat?



He is a Spanish tv and radio presenter and journalist.

Livia 04-05-2018 05:32 PM

Let's think, Queen Sofia wants a pic with Leonor and Sofia, but they can take it on Marivent, the pic will be more beautiful, only the three and the landscape with Mediterranean See or the palace in the background, not people, people and more people between the public, security team. I believe Letizia didn't notice the photographer, why she was going to boicot a pic of grandma and grandchildren, that makes not sense, Letizia is greeting people at left and right even the woman who is greeating little Sofia and Queen Sofia interrupted. If Letizia said something I think it was to Leonor due to her behaviour with Queen Sofia, for me she is not looking to her mother in law, she was looking to Leonor, maybe she was tired, or overwhelmed, she is 12 years old for good sake, she is still a girl not an adolescent, she is at the doors to the most complicated years of ther life, she is growing up, losing her infant innocence, now we want to see these girls more often? with the destructive press we have in Spain, Sofia has 10 until the end of this month. Seriously, you must to live in Spain to understand all of this, one thing it's to see everthing from outside, but the other is to see this from inside. Press in Spain has not shame, they would sell their own mother, father, siblings if this brings a huge economic benefits.

Whatever who orchestrate all this ... we have to congratule him, her or them, people didn't talk of Cristina's stellar visit to Spain and hubby, or Catalonia problems. Well played, press.


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