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Lady Griffin 08-29-2007 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 659275)
The Duchess of Alba woman noble, polite and rich ... to had glorious moments with the press, with insults and gestures badly enough educated.:lol:

It is not possible to try to change a man that has 90 years, and that for very well that this, doesn´t have the head or the reflections of a youngest person. He is a polite enough and nice man with the press, which once has said a word " that sounds badly " is an anecdote.
For my what it turns out to be terrible, and a great lack of education is that a man of this age is not respected. The last image that I remember is to a group of journalists harassing him while he was trying to help his wife to go out of the car, woman who walks badly and has problems of vision. For my it is more terrible enough, the image of these supposed journalists, that what could say or do an elderly man.

Sorry, Lula, but it looks as if you do have a problem with how much money people have in their bank accounts. As I said before, money has nothing to do with good manners.
We are not discussing the Duchess of Alba's antics. This would be a matter for a different thread in which I do not intend to participate.
But I do believe that the grandfather of the future Queen of Spain should watch his language... as should anyone.
As for the press... they are vultures, but you simply avoid giving them fresh meat to feast on.

lula 08-29-2007 05:54 PM

What I try to explain is that the persons with certain age, do not have the same reflections that the young persons, and before the harassment of a few persons who chase and do questions to them without respect. Many people joke or criticize Francisco Rocasolano for being a humble man, and for having there reacts natural that would have any person.

I do not have any problem with the people with money ... but I am bored of seeing like simple persons are despised by trifles, while one forgives the attitude of that have money or a title of nobility in worst circunstances. This it is one habitual attitude, which is reflected very well in the attitude of certain journalists.

I adore the Duchess of Alba when she criticizes and insults to the press, because I believe that it is a normal attitude in a person of an age that they have to support this harassment. If they do not respect the people finish for not respecting them.

Francisco Rocasolano acts with total naturalness, because he has neither the evilness nor the reflections to think and to answer. I believe that there are much worse things and many more serious than it ... what had to do the press is to be polite persons and to show a bit of respect towards the elders.

Lady Griffin 08-29-2007 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 659291)
what had to do the press is to be polite persons and to show a bit of respect towards the elders.

I know what you mean and I could not agree more.

highpriestess 08-30-2007 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659048)
[/i]

There is a story about the King saying to a small group of very close people, after he was informed of the marriage plans his son had made : "Este niño tonto se va a cargar la monarquía", which means: "This silly boy is going to bring the downfall of the monarchy" and it was a very wise remark.
Queen Sofia is always perfect in her role, a true professional as the King has always said,

And the source of that story is........???

IMO, JC is in no position to want his son to follow his footstep when it comes to marriage. Yeah, JC married a true professional and had fun with all the women on the side. I can't imagine Felipe, who's close to his mother, would want an "arrangement" like that. He surely saw first-hand all the pain and humiliation his father put his beloved mother through over the years. JC is no role model in this matter.

Lady Griffin 08-30-2007 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highpriestess (Post 659501)
And the source of that story is........???

IMO, JC is in no position to want his son to follow his footstep when it comes to marriage. Yeah, JC married a true professional and had fun with all the women on the side. I can't imagine Felipe, who's close to his mother, would want an "arrangement" like that. He surely saw first-hand all the pain and humiliation his father put his beloved mother through over the years. JC is no role model in this matter.

I am not going to reveal my source!!!!??? To do that in a forum where nobody reveils their own identity??? But I can trust the source.... In your case, you may have all the doubts you want... It is your privilege.
King Juan Carlos has not been a perfect husband, although he is the first one to acknowledge that the Queen is a marvelous person and a true professional. It is their problem....
On the other hand, although Felipe did not have a good example at home, he was educated and groomed to be the heir to the throne.... and he knew very well his responsibilities. With the exception of Isabel Sartorius, whose only "sin" was that her parents were divorced, all the other girlfriends who followed were a bit of a disaster. It looked as if he was always mixing with the wrong people. And then he ends up marrying Letizia, a divorced woman in Catholic Spain!!!! Same situation as Wallis Simpson.... without an abdication.
Well, in my opinion the Prince had obligations he did not fulfil.
As for the future of his marriage... it is still early days. Let's see what happens in a few years time. After all this, he may as well follow his father's footsteps.....
Anyway, I do not wish this. May they live happily ever after and then we can all have a nice ending to the fairy tale....

donnaK 08-30-2007 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659527)
King Juan Carlos has not been a perfect husband, although he is the first one to acknowledge that the Queen is a marvelous person and a true professional. It is their problem....

The Queen could have behaved like Diana (luckily for JC, she didn't), that would have turned into a big disaster. There is no guarantee that the young generation royals or German trust fund girls will be as professional as Sofia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659527)
And then he ends up marrying Letizia, a divorced woman in Catholic Spain!!!! Same situation as Wallis Simpson.... without an abdication.

You seem to still live in the early 20th century. By the old standard, all the heirs who married commoners would have to abdicate as well. Today Charles is married to a divorced woman, in fact his former mistress who has been accused by many for the breakup of his marriage with Diana, without abdication. Most Spaniards are Catholic, but they are only social Catholics. Divorce is not such a big deal. The other heirs of Europe also married women who had long relationship with other men and lived together with other men without being married. If Letizia had only lived together with her ex without signing a piece of paper, that would have made her a different woman, a more suitable bride for the Catholic Church ? LOL.

Avalon 08-30-2007 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659527)
I am not going to reveal my source!!!!??? To do that in a forum where nobody reveils their own identity??? But I can trust the source.... In your case, you may have all the doubts you want... It is your privilege. ....

In cases like this, you have to name a source, because we don't allow unfounded speculations and rumours. I could insist my source told me Juan Carlos said 'How lovely, Letizia will carry on some of our family jewels well, I already love her', but other members would have no means of checking whether the information is true or not.

As per our rules:
Quote:

We do not allow unsubstantiated gossip and speculation based on hearsay. Opinions should be backed up by reference to published reports.

Duke of Marmalade 08-30-2007 06:57 AM

[quote=donnaK;659539]
Quote:

Most Spaniards are Catholic, but they are only social Catholics. Divorce is not such a big deal.
I wonder if Queen Sofia will agree with this opinion. Letizia was lucky because 1. she did not marry in church as both were not even "social catholics" and 2. Felipe already went through a nightmare with Eva and he refused to give in a second time. I am sure JC and Sofia knew they had to accept the situation and made the best of it - hence the statement that it's no big deal or rather normal that Letizia is a divorcee :rolleyes: What else could they do in order not to discredit her? That statement certainly did not come from the heart and there other issues from her past that had to or still are being overlooked or locked up in order not to discredit Letizia or show her reassurance because it's so vital for the monarchy itself to have a respected future Queen.

Quote:

The other heirs of Europe also married women who had long relationship with other men and lived together with other men without being married. If Letizia had only lived together with her ex without signing a piece of paper, that would have made her a different woman, a more suitable bride for the Catholic Church ? LOL.
I see your point but I think there is a difference because there is a commitment when you get married. No matter what has become of it these days, the orgininal purpose of marriage is to stick with the person until death does you apart, in good times and in bad times. That might sound pathetic these days but nobody urged Letizia go get married and she willingly gave this commitment to her first husband Alfonso, for whatever reason. So I do understand the critics because it does say something about a person to get married and change one's mind only a bit later and I don't want to speculate about the reasons what actually changed Letizia's mind. It's not that she did a Las Vegas stunt as she knew this man for years, therefore this decision must have included some deeper reflection. So I would not be too sure what happens if Felipe turns into JC many years from now, if Letizia will shut up and make the best of it as Sofia did or if she does a Diana instead.

lula 08-30-2007 07:12 AM

Duke, it is to play at being fortune-tellers and at speculating.

The Princess married for the first time after many years of relation, and of a relation that had begun young enough. For her it would be a failure that was not working, but always I have thought that it is better to separate of a civilized form and with respect, that to support a marriage that does not make you happy.

In addition between the Queen Sofia and Diana's ... there is an average term, which nowadays would be that of Alexandra of Denmark. If the persons are respected and are civilized, a separation must be neither a trauma nor a scandal.

donnaK 08-30-2007 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
wonder if Queen Sofia will agree with this opinion. Letizia was lucky because 1. she did not marry in church as both were not even "social catholics" and 2. Felipe already went through a nightmare with Eva and he refused to give in a second time. I am sure JC and Sofia knew they had to accept the situation and made the best of it - hence the statement that it's no big deal or rather normal that Letizia is a divorcee :rolleyes: What else could they do in order not to discredit her? That statement certainly did not come from the heart and there other issues from her past that had to or still are being overlooked or locked up in order not to discredit Letizia or show her reassurance because it's so vital for the monarchy itself to have a respected future Queen.

I was refering to Griffin's statement on 'a divorced woman in Catholic Spain'. She sounded like 'divorce' is so rare in today's Spain, which is completely untrue. A marraige involves two persons, who knows if it was her or her ex who didn't want to get married in the church, or they wanted to, but couldn't since it was the 2nd wedding for her ex.
On her divorce paper being locked up, it's a private subject, also involves another private citizen (her ex). I have never seen the divorce paper of Charles and Diana with their signatures on the newspaper, nor was the one of Joachim and Alexandra, both couples were public figures partly or completely supported by the taxpers' money.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
I see your point but I think there is a difference because there is a commitment when you get married. No matter what has become of it these days, the orgininal purpose of marriage is to stick with the person until death does you apart, in good times and in bad times. That might sound pathetic these days but nobody urged Letizia go get married and she willingly gave this commitment to her first husband Alfonso, for whatever reason. So I do understand the critics because it does say something about a person to get married and change one's mind only a bit later and I don't want to speculate about the reasons what actually changed Letizia's mind. It's not that she did a Las Vegas stunt as she knew this man for years, therefore this decision must have included some deeper reflection.

I have knows a few pairs with very long courtship since university days, only with short lived marriages. According to them, they knew each other so well that they knew immediately after the wedding they would never meet each other's expectation as husband and wife. On Letizia's, I don't know what was their problem, but I think marriage was rather a honest approach to a relation, it certainly doesn't make her worse than simply living with the man without signing a piece of paper. Too bad, it didn't work out. I heard they both were quite depressed when the marriage ended, so you can't say they didn't give it a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
So I would not be too sure what happens if Felipe turns into JC many years from now, if Letizia will shut up and make the best of it as Sofia did or if she does a Diana instead.

These days it's very hard to find a Sofia even in the royal circles IMO, actually I doubt if there is any. I don't know what Letizia would do, just as I don't know what other CPsses would do if their hubby pulls a JC.

donnaK 08-30-2007 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659527)
As for the future of his marriage... it is still early days. Let's see what happens in a few years time. After all this, he may as well follow his father's footsteps.....
Anyway, I do not wish this. May they live happily ever after and then we can all have a nice ending to the fairy tale....

As Felipe said in his wedding speech, to marry with love and emotions has always been one of his goals in life. It certainly gave him hope to begin a new life (you can't have no hope in life). The black opal ring Felipe gave to Letizia for her first birthday after the wedding said it all, 'loyalty and full of hope for the future'. Whether the love will last life time, only time can tell. A couple can grow towards each other after the marriage, they can also grow apart, one partner outgrows the other during the long journey, it happens everywhere.
Felipe is in a very lonely position, he could as well be a very lonely man before his marriage. I would rather see him with Letizia than those pijos he used to hang out so much before the marriage.
On the rumors of the King's friends leaking out his private words on his son's marriage to the press, if any truth to it, it shows one more time that money and power doesn't buy loyalty and class :eek:. Shame on his friends, who probably were angry that Felipe didn't marry one of their daughters or nieces.

Anna_R 08-30-2007 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659138)
She has learned some lessons, particularly after she was "muffled" right at the start when she interrupted Prince Felipe and tried to conduct an interview...!!!!

How many times does this issue has to come around to haunt Letizia? She didn't interrupted Felipe, he interrupted her!

The video, 3:25 - This is the translation in English is this:
YouTube - Petición de Mano

Quote:

Letizia: Well, principally, since the announcement of the engagement and since today, the asking of the hand, it is clear that this is a point in the professional work I was exercising until now. What I wish, what we intend to do is that I'll slowly leave TVE, not immediately. And it's also clear that from now on and in a progressive way, I'm going to intigrate and dedicate myself to this new life, well, with the responsibilities and obligations that go with it and with the support and affection of...

Felipe wants to interfere.

Letizia:
... Let me finish... The affection of the King and Queen and of course after the priceless example of the Queen.
The question was directed at her, she was replying and he interrupted her, not the other way around.

highpriestess 08-31-2007 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Griffin (Post 659527)
Well, in my opinion the Prince had obligations he did not fulfil.

Well, in my opinion, JC had a marrital oath that he didn't withhold. An oath he said in a Catholic church. Which one is worse???

If Felipe follows his father's footstep by marrying a royal/noble woman and having mistresses on the side, who says the wife will not be another Diana? How much damage will a Diana do to Spanish monarchy?

highpriestess 08-31-2007 12:30 AM

[quote=Duke of Marmalade;659587]
Quote:

Originally Posted by donnaK (Post 659539)
So I do understand the critics because it does say something about a person to get married and change one's mind only a bit later and I don't want to speculate about the reasons what actually changed Letizia's mind.

Since neither she nor her ex ever discussed the reason for their divorce, I wonder why you automatically assume it's Letizia who changed her mind? Ain't we a bit past the time blaming the "fickless woman"?

biboquinhas 08-31-2007 05:02 AM

To me it is very obvious that Cristina and Elena are not best friends of Letizia, to me that is very obvious, but the fact remains that even if they are not best friends they could be friends ate least, but to me that is also a very distance possibility. Elena and Letizia have two beautiful children almous from teh same age, when we saw pcitures of both girls we never saw them playing or running after each other, some normal things, never!! We have never saw them speaking to each other, not a single photo this summer, to me that is very obvious and that means something. I don't consider that Elena is jelaous of Letizia, Elena is a part of the Royal family, she always was and Letizia come later, of course the attentions are always on Letizia, but for Elena maybe that is good for her, the attentions are always on Leonor and Sofia and not on her little daugther, maybe a bit jealous yes but do you think that is all??No I think that there is something more but we will never know!!

Duke of Marmalade 08-31-2007 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna_R (Post 659811)
How many times does this issue has to come around to haunt Letizia? She didn't interrupted Felipe, he interrupted her!

The video, 3:25 - This is the translation in English is this:
YouTube - Petición de Mano

The question was directed at her, she was replying and he interrupted her, not the other way around.

Thanks Anna R, it's funny because I too always have to remind myself that it actually was the other way around. I think it comes as this engagement presentation was different to most others, where the new member (the future crown princess) showed off a very low key attitude, speaking calmly and only speaking when being asked. This was very different with Letizia, speaking all the time in a very self assured manner - obviously her true character - while Felipe struggled to have his say, and coming across as very bossy. When Felipe interrupted her and she came up with her famous quote his reaction was very childish, giggling like a silly teenager and one could assume that he will be transformed into a hen-pecked husband :eek: So it got stuck in people's minds that she somehow interrupted him as she totally dominated the situation. At least this is how I feel :smile:

Avalon 08-31-2007 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biboquinhas (Post 660076)
To me it is very obvious that Cristina and Elena are not best friends of Letizia, to me that is very obvious, but the fact remains that even if they are not best friends they could be friends ate least, but to me that is also a very distance possibility. Elena and Letizia have two beautiful children almous from teh same age, when we saw pcitures of both girls we never saw them playing or running after each other, some normal things, never!! We have never saw them speaking to each other, not a single photo this summer, to me that is very obvious and that means something. I don't consider that Elena is jelaous of Letizia, Elena is a part of the Royal family, she always was and Letizia come later, of course the attentions are always on Letizia, but for Elena maybe that is good for her, the attentions are always on Leonor and Sofia and not on her little daugther, maybe a bit jealous yes but do you think that is all??No I think that there is something more but we will never know!!


I assume you were talking about Cristina, not Elena, since Victoria Federica and Leonor are obvously not close in age. ;)

I'm not saying everything you said is not possible or correct, but remember that Leonor & Irene live in different cities, they don't interact with each other too much, so they are somewhat 'strangers' for each other.

On the other hand Victoria Federica and Felipe Froilán, who live in Madrid, seem to be very close with their little cousin, both are protective of her and Leonor seems to be at ease with them as well. :smile:

biboquinhas 08-31-2007 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 660092)
I assume you were talking about Cristina, not Elena, since Victoria Federica and Leonor are obvously not close in age. ;)

Yes!:flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon
I'm not saying everything you said is not possible or correct, but remember that Leonor & Irene live in different cities, they don't interact with each other too much, so they are somewhat 'strangers' for each other. :smile:

Yes I have not mentioned that but it is most likely that they don't know each other very well, they are most of the time far from each other! Although I think that it is rather strange that we have never seen, this summer, photos of these two together and playing sometimes! Leonor seams to be a very happy baby so I think that she would interact with her cousin with no problem!

adelaide 08-31-2007 08:16 PM

This thread is the most funny one about the Spain Royal Family. Everybody, on the same basis, are doing extrapolation regarding their taught, may be only to write or say something. It's the less documented thread and mainly the expression of the feeling of those who write their posts.

Like that we can invented all the stories that we want, even we can rebuilt totally the Felipe and Letizia 's story!!!!!

Marengo 08-31-2007 08:44 PM

Well, the discussion isn´t only in the thoughts of posters here but a topic in the Spanish media. That makes it relevant for this thread and we are able to discuss it.

But I agree with you in thinking that the bad relations between the King and his daughter-in-law are mostly the results of unfounded newsreports and not based on facts. But still, that is only a thought to and that too is something which I can not prove.


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