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Spheno 02-17-2018 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 2074423)
:previous: When did that law change. In 2013 they were still fighting a legal battle.

To the manor born: The female aristocrats battling to inherit the title | The Independent

in 1925
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_tail


Edit: Read carefully the article. It's all about titles, not property.

Tatiana Maria 02-19-2018 03:10 PM

:previous:

The Law of Property Act 1925 facilitated barring the entail, but entailed estates were not abolished with it.

Law of Property Act 1925

Without making use of entails, the British aristocracy still is able to effectively preclude women from the inheritance of properties, as Marg's article illustrates. In most instances, the family home is left to the male heir to the peerage.

Quote:

Most vocal among them is Edward Lambton, 'Ned' to his friends, or the 7th Earl of Durham to readers of Debrett's. As the only son of the late Lord Lambton, the Tory minister who resigned in 1973 after being photographed in bed with a prostitute, he inherited the entirety of his father's £12m fortune, including Lambton Castle and Biddick Hall in County Durham, and Villa Cetinale in Tuscany, considered by some to be Italy's most beautiful house. As the elder Lambton spent the last 30 years of his life in Italy, under Italian law all his children are entitled to a share of the estate. Since his death in 2006, three of his daughters have been locked in a dispute with their brother, demanding their share. Just as they were preparing to settle for a payment of £1m each, negotiations broke down and Ned served a High Court writ, designed to clarify some outstanding legal issues.

Spheno 02-19-2018 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 2075154)
:previous:

The Law of Property Act 1925 facilitated barring the entail, but entailed estates were not abolished with it.

Law of Property Act 1925

Without making use of entails, the British aristocracy still is able to effectively preclude women from the inheritance of properties, as Marg's article illustrates. In most instances, the family home is left to the male heir to the peerage.

But it has nothing to do with laws. British laws allow to leave all estate to daughters.

Tatiana Maria 02-19-2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spheno (Post 2075195)
But it has nothing to do with laws. British laws allow to leave all estate to daughters.

I think that Marg's post was referring to the British laws of succession to aristocratic titles, which are put as justification for bypassing daughters and leaving the family property and fortune to male heirs.

KMD 09-11-2018 11:28 PM

Danish New Ceremonial Events.
 
I read in the Biography of Princess Mary, 2005, that QM11 had introduced many new ceremonial events to the Danish National Calendar. Can anybody comment of this?

Muhler 05-11-2020 11:53 AM

One of QMII's four LiWs is retiring from duty.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/dronningen-...ner-ny-hofdame

It is Ane Vibeke Foss, who after many years has requested being relieved of her duties. (*)
Ane Vibeke Foss is 80 years old and a close personal friend of QMII since their youth.

Replacing her from 1. July is Henriette Obel, chamberlain.
Henriette Obel has had a very distinguished career in private businesses.

She joins the three other LiWs QMII has, Annette de Scheel (nobility), Annelise Wern (nobility) and Jette Nordam.

A Lady in Waiting is a personal assistant that is even more personal, than a hired personal assistant. Apart from assisting the Queen in various matters on duty and in sorting through the more personal letters to QMII a LiW is also a close confidante with an intimate knowledge of the royal lady they serve, they have to in order to help. That can be anything from acquiring very personal sanitary articles to picking up the signals when their royal lady needs to be "rescued" from a bore. A LiW will often also go to a place that will have a longer royal visit, to ensure that say personal facilities are in place and contain what is required, that bouquets and the attire of their lay will match and a multitude of other personal matters.
A LiW is expected to always be discreetly presentable. She must never outshine her lady, like the bodyguards, always close but unnoticed.

A LiW does not resign or get fired. They either ask to be relieved of their duties. Or if having made a transgression, they are dismissed.
That's because a LiW is not a paid member of the staff, and as such is outside the staff-hierarchy.
A LiW is requested to serve her lady/Monarch and it is an honor, privilege and duty to serve. One certainly does not get paid as if one was a mere maid!

Apart from the honor (also to your family, because you are not chosen if your family has a history of being controversial or having done shady things) the job contains a good deal of perks and privileges. You are sure to retire with stars and orders and a personal reputation and integrity that is considered above reproach. - And if you are married to such an esteemed being, it rubs off on you as well... ;)

Traditionally it was members of the nobility only who served as Ladies in Waiting, but today that is no longer a requirement, even though most are still from noble families.
Today they are selected for their high integrity, personal relationship with their lady and for high intelligence and education, often in leadership positions, giving them added authority when needed.

Follow up.

Here is a photo of Henriette Obel.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/dronningen-...ner-ny-hofdame

She is very well educated business women, who has lived for a number of years in England with her husband, who was an investor there.
Her mother-in-law, Ulla Obel, is a personal friend of QMII and a former LiW herself.
The family is friends with both QMII and M&F.
It's a very discreet family. It's hard to fidn photos of the family members and even photos of the place they live, Haxholm Estate, in Jutland are hard to find. https://www.kroneborg.dk/images/show...4786505727.png
The estate is from the 1500s, but the current main building is from 1909. It has been owned by the Obel family since 1926.

- I wonder if she has daughters? In that case they might be of interest to Mary when she becomes queen.
This is the ebst I could find:

MARG 05-12-2020 08:01 AM

How wonderful that the whole family know her, no chance of Courtiers overstepping themselves and interfering in the family dynamics.

Muhler 05-12-2020 06:32 PM

According to BT QMII's LiWs share the year between them, so that each LiW is on duty for three months at a time.

- That is nevertheless a long time, because QMII constantly has a LiW around, also at dinner, where her adjutant on duty is also present. As well as on holidays. (A majesty is never on her own.)

Also, I have to correct my previous post. Ladies in Waiting nowadays receive a salary.
- Come to think of it, I do seem to recall that this was introduced some 10-20 years ago, after some controversy regarding the LiWs working for free.
The salary can IMO hardly amount to much more than pocket money for the ladies, as they all seem to be wealthy in their own rights.

amaryllus 05-12-2020 11:39 PM

Very interesting! Does Mary or all senior Royal ladies have LiW or Just the Queen?

Muhler 05-13-2020 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaryllus (Post 2313995)
Very interesting! Does Mary or all senior Royal ladies have LiW or Just the Queen?

Mary has one LiW. And always have.
When she becomes queen I imagine she will have at least two, pretty much full time LiWs.

Our Marie used to have a LiW as well.
But now she use a relative of Prince Henrik as a personal assistant when on the job in DK at least. Can't remember his name off hand. He is a nephew of PH,, lives in DK and IIRC is married to a Dane.
And when abroad she is typically teamed up with members of the court or government and ministerial civil servants or people from the embassy.

Joachim at least used to have a permanent adjutant, who doubled as part time secretary, court-liaison officer and sometimes a kind of adjutant/gentleman-in-waiting when on the job.
Because that adjutant pretty much constituted the entire staff of Joachim.

QMII has a Staff of Adjutants and they cover the entire DRF. Today that's mainly M&F and sometimes Joachim and Benedikte.
They rotate and often serve for only a few years. So say Mary's adjutant on the job on a Tuesday may not be the same as the one on Thursday.
That is in contrast to say Crown Princess Victoria, who AFAIK do not have a LiW, but instead a permanently attached female adjutant, who perform pretty much the same tasks as an adjutant and LiW. - But of course without being a close personal friend.

JR76 05-13-2020 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2314020)
That is in contrast to say Crown Princess Victoria, who AFAIK do not have a LiW, but instead a permanently attached female adjutant, who perform pretty much the same tasks as an adjutant and LiW. - But of course without being a close personal friend.

Quite correctly Crown Princess Victoria has chosen to have aide-de-camps instead of ladies in waiting. The reason behind this is said to be that she wants to keep her organisation like her father's who quite naturally has aide-de-camps and not ladies in waiting. The aide-de-camps, who are both male and female, number 12 and are on a rotating schedule of service for one month each per year. They're all high-ranking officers who live at Haga Palace while on duty and are expected to be available around the clock.

Nordic 05-13-2020 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2314020)
Mary has one LiW. And always have.
When she becomes queen I imagine she will have at least two, pretty much full time LiWs. .

Mary's LIW is also her private secretary.

iceflower 07-01-2020 05:45 AM

On July 4 the exhibition "Princess dresses" will open at the Amalienborg Museum. It will present a selection of dresses by Jørgen Bender created for Princess Benedikte (21 dresses like birthday dresses and her silver wedding dress):


** kongehuset instagram **


** kongehuset: Udstillingen ”Prinsessekjoler” på Amalienborgmuseet **

LadyFinn 07-01-2020 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2314020)
That is in contrast to say Crown Princess Victoria, who AFAIK do not have a LiW, but instead a permanently attached female adjutant, who perform pretty much the same tasks as an adjutant and LiW. - But of course without being a close personal friend.

Crown Princess Victoria has twelve aide-de-camps, a year ago five of them were men and seven women. They are all high-ranking officers. Of those, in 2017 commander Ewa Skoog Haslum was chosen as the vice chancellor of the Swedish Defence University and later the Chief of Navy and promoted as rear admiral, the first female admiral in Sweden. Colonel Laura Swaan Wrede was appointed as the first female commander of Livgardet, and on 1st April this year as the acting army chief and promoted as brigadier general, the first female general at the Swedish Armed Forces. Of those who still work as Victoria's aide-de-camps, Lieutenant Colonel Stefan Wilson is the Head of Tactical Warfare Division at the Swedish Defence University. Colonel Lena Persson Herlitz is the Head of Training Department at Swedish Armed Forces HQ. Colonel Malin Persson is Air Base Wing Commander etcetera.

Muhler 03-23-2021 06:48 AM

What would happen if Christian went missing, only turn up again later?

Say Christian is missing at sea. No trace of him or the crew, nor his boat. Nothing.

Okay, if it is assumed that Christian is most likely to have died, due to say a storm in the area and an intensive search hasn't been able to find him. Then he can be declared dead quite fast. The same thing applies if he was aboard a plane that crashed at sea.
In that case a court can after six months rule that he is dead.
If he is just missing and it can't be determined with reasonable certainty that he is likely to have died, then it will take five years, before a court will rule that he is dead.
There is after all the chance that he has been abducted, taken a new identity or joined the Foreign Legion.

In this case five years pass. No Christian. Isabella automatically becomes crown princess, the moment Christian is ruled dead. Assuming of course that Frederik is on the throne.

Then three years later he is found alive on a deserted island. Now what?
Will Christian be ruled alive again and therefore become crown prince again?

I'd say most unlikely, as he had been declared officially dead and Isabella has officially become the Heir.
It would be a mess to reverse things. Not to mention the physical and mental condition of Christian after eight years...
I believe it would decided to let Isabella go on with the job she has been preparing for for eight years now.
But there is a chance that Isabella would step down or there would be a majority for reinstating Christian as crown prince.

Now, what if Isabella has become queen, and Christian shows up?
Can he claim the throne?
Can he claim to at least being the successor, also on behalf of any children he may have?

No, I'd say. That ship has sailed. Isabella is the monarch and it's her line that matters now.

What are your thoughts?
Also in regards to other monarchies, that may have a different legislation or different precedence.

Prinsara 03-28-2021 11:53 AM

I mean this with all respect and sincerity, but I'm also curious. How far back from Frederik IX and Count Ingolf does the alcoholism in the DRF go? Were there other documented historical cases? Can it be traced to someone who's the source?

Muhler 03-28-2021 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2385618)
I mean this with all respect and sincerity, but I'm also curious. How far back from Frederik IX and Count Ingolf does the alcoholism in the DRF go? Were there other documented historical cases? Can it be traced to someone who's the source?

The shortest answer would be: All the way back to the very beginning.
Even before Gorm the Old.

Prince Aage, who ended up in the Foreign Legion, was an probably an alcoholic. That's clear by contemporary accounts from various sources, who met him in among other places North Africa. I have a feeling he drowned his sorrow over his late wife. There are several account from Danish legionaries who could and would bum a drink from him in bars. And that he was frequenting bars quite a lot! (Boredom played a part too, I presume.)

There are no accounts that I know off that specifically mentions any of the kings, after Christian IV, being a regular binge drinker. But that was part of his reputation, in line with current behavior and something you bragged about.
I don't think the kings between Christian IV and Frederik IX drank out of the ordinary, but keep in mind that everybody drank (light) beer, schnapps and wine and thus went to bed in the evening more or less tipsy.
But then again, there is no account that I'm aware off, mentioning any of these kings as being teetotaler, or even being moderate drinkers.
It's a difficult question to answer, because up to and including Frederik IX pretty much everybody drank to some extent. So the acceptance level was higher and as such also the level where people would gossip about to such an extent that it gets mentioned in biographies.

So I'd say statistically speaking there must have been quite a handful of alcoholics within the DRF over the past 200 years, but it was either hushed up or not considered an issue, outside the family.

Prinsara 03-28-2021 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2385628)
The shortest answer would be: All the way back to the very beginning.
Even before Gorm the Old.

Prince Aage, who ended up in the Foreign Legion, was an probably an alcoholic. That's clear by contemporary accounts from various sources, who met him in among other places North Africa. I have a feeling he drowned his sorrow over his late wife. There are several account from Danish legionaries who could and would bum a drink from him in bars. And that he was frequenting bars quite a lot! (Boredom played a part too, I presume.)

There are no accounts that I know off that specifically mentions any of the kings, after Christian IV, being a regular binge drinker. But that was part of his reputation, in line with current behavior and something you bragged about.
I don't think the kings between Christian IV and Frederik IX drank out of the ordinary, but keep in mind that everybody drank (light) beer, schnapps and wine and thus went to bed in the evening more or less tipsy.
But then again, there is no account that I'm aware off, mentioning any of these kings as being teetotaler, or even being moderate drinkers.
It's a difficult question to answer, because up to and including Frederik IX pretty much everybody drank to some extent. So the acceptance level was higher and as such also the level where people would gossip about to such an extent that it gets mentioned in biographies.

So I'd say statistically speaking there must have been quite a handful of alcoholics within the DRF over the past 200 years, but it was either hushed up or not considered an issue, outside the family.

You're right; excuses were undoubtedly made, further back. And society is society. I wondered if it had been enough of a problem for anyone else that it had been noted. And statistically speaking (unlike hemophilia ;)), it's unlikely to have just arisen in Frederik and his nephew, etc., out of nowhere. So do I need to check Queen Alexandrine's family, or can we assume 1000 years of Danish drinking culture was enough to be the culprit and Frederik just happened to be at the point where people noticed?

Muhler 03-28-2021 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prinsara (Post 2385644)
You're right; excuses were undoubtedly made, further back. And society is society. I wondered if it had been enough of a problem for anyone else that it had been noted. And statistically speaking (unlike hemophilia ;)), it's unlikely to have just arisen in Frederik and his nephew, etc., out of nowhere. So do I need to check Queen Alexandrine's family, or can we assume 1000 years of Danish drinking culture was enough to be the culprit and Frederik just happened to be at the point where people noticed?

Both, I'd say.

Frederik IX was at a stage, and with enough exposure (remember his family was presented to the public as the idyllic family - which it to a considerable extent was. Frederik was despite his flaws a devoted husband and loving father) for it to be noticed and gossiped about in public. When he was a prince he and his mate toured the clubs of Copenhagen, and they didn't exactly drink lemonade. So that was well known. - And became an image problem.

Beforehand, especially during Absolutism, it was probably not the best idea to say publicly that prominent members of the DRF were winos! It was no doubt well known to the public, but there were so many alcoholics around that it must have seem normal.
There are not many secrets in a city of 100.000, of which several hundred works one way or another for the DRF.
And especially around 1800, the ballad-hags would write one-penny ballads about everyone who had made a spectacle of themselves, whether it was true or not. So if you had been proposing to the statue of Gefion on the way home from a merry evening, you could hear the ballad about you, being song the next evening in the countless clubs in Copenhagen.

I don't know of any DK kings who got the nickname of say Christian the Drunkard. And if there were, his family would have made sure: We don't write about that, right!?! - No, Sire. - Write about what, Sire? - How odd, Sire, I seem to have lost my memory.

Seriously, I don't know if there really is alcoholism in the family. What I do know is that anyone can become an addict, when triggered.

Prinsara 03-28-2021 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2385657)
Both, I'd say.

Frederik IX was at a stage, and with enough exposure (remember his family was presented to the public as the idyllic family - which it to a considerable extent was. Frederik was despite his flaws a devoted husband and loving father) for it to be noticed and gossiped about in public. When he was a prince he and his mate toured the clubs of Copenhagen, and they didn't exactly drink lemonade. So that was well known. - And became an image problem.

Beforehand, especially during Absolutism, it was probably not the best idea to say publicly that prominent members of the DRF were winos! It was no doubt well known to the public, but there were so many alcoholics around that it must have seem normal.
There are not many secrets in a city of 100.000, of which several hundred works one way or another for the DRF.
And especially around 1800, the ballad-hags would write one-penny ballads about everyone who had made a spectacle of themselves, whether it was true or not. So if you had been proposing to the statue of Gefion on the way home from a merry evening, you could hear the ballad about you, being song the next evening in the countless clubs in Copenhagen.

I don't know of any DK kings who got the nickname of say Christian the Drunkard. And if there were, his family would have made sure: We don't write about that, right!?! - No, Sire. - Write about what, Sire? - How odd, Sire, I seem to have lost my memory.

Seriously, I don't know if there really is alcoholism in the family. What I do know is that anyone can become an addict, when triggered.

Having the entire city singing about you sounds both amusing and horrifying.

It's true, anyone can have addiction issues, and with alcohol in particular, the research points to it being widely hereditary — which is why if you have a close family member with this issue, you're particularly advised to watch what you do.

With Frederik, Ingolf, and a couple of other things I've heard, it does at least appear to be in the family... which got me wondering where it might have been before. I thought it might be more clear-cut if there was someone in the past, but I guess it's not so obvious.


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