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-   -   Queen Wilhelmina (1880-1962) (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f160/queen-wilhelmina-1880-1962-a-1201.html)

Mbruno 06-10-2016 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1550105)
An interesting article about the meeting of Queen Wilhelmina and President Theodore Roosevelt. The present's discription was't very flattering...

https://www.caans-acaen.ca/Journal/is...pp%2025-48.pdf

I find Roosevelt's assessment of the Netherlands as an "unimportant small country" quite inaccurate considering that, back in 1910, the Netherlands, despite being itself "small", controlled nonetheless the world's third largest colonial empire. I am curious though about Queen Wilhelmina's alleged "autocratic" views. Is that a fair assessment of her personal political beliefs ?

Furthermore, if Wilhelmina indeed had autocratic leanings, did that have any influence at all on the Netherlands' decision to stay officially neutral in World War I and actually lean towards Germany ?

Mbruno 06-10-2016 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1840541)
A coup d'état is never recommendable but I can imagine groups of Dutchmen fighting against the défaitisme: "Ach, we have lost our East-Indies..." and want to keep that immense territory tied to the Netherlands. The historian Cees Fasseur seems not so convinced about the aspect to kill the foreman of the Dutch Labour Party: he found no substantial backing for that claim in the book.


How would a coup in the Netherlands have prevented Indonesian independence anyway ? If the coup had succeeded, I imagine a scenario where the Dutch armed forces would have been bogged down in a protracted Vietnam-like war in the East Indies , where the Netherlands would have got no international support whatsoever and would have had to withdraw eventually anyway.

Besides, going back to the claim that a coup was being planned in 1947, it would have been quite odd to install a right-wing, fascist regime in the Netherlands shortly after the country had fought against the Nazi occupation and fascism in World War II. Also, as I understand it, Princess Juliana was said to have "progressive" political leanings. I don't think she would side with the conspirators even if her mother did. Could anyone comment on that ?

Lee-Z 06-10-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1897496)
I find Roosevelt's assessment of the Netherlands as an "unimportant small country" quite inaccurate considering that, back in 1910, the Netherlands, despite being itself "small", controlled nonetheless the world's third largest colonial empire. I am curious though about Queen Wilhelmina's alleged "autocratic" views. Is that a fair assessment of her personal political beliefs ?

Furthermore, if Wilhelmina indeed had autocratic leanings, did that have any influence at all on the Netherlands' decision to stay officially neutral in World War I and actually lean towards Germany ?

As i understand it the policy of staying neutral had already been practised by the NL in the 19th century, so before Q.Wilhelmina came to the throne
This article might be of interest, it's about the role of Q.Wilhelmina during WWI
Koningin Wilhelmina tijdens de Eerste Wereldoorlog

https://translate.google.nl/translat...a%2Findex.html

CyrilVladisla 11-28-2016 08:47 PM

Queen Wilhelmina opened Parliament amidst medieval pomp in 1930.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmk3NwK5gRk

lucien 12-11-2016 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla (Post 1942658)
Queen Wilhelmina opened Parliament amidst medieval pomp in 1930.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmk3NwK5gRk

Regal pomp you mean to say ofcourse as was the case then as well as now still in the 21st century,and we respect and love it.

Marengo 04-20-2018 01:25 AM

The historian & researcher Gerard Aalders wrote a new book about Queen Wilhelmina. He focusses on her reputation in the war and 'demolishes' her image.

Aalders is a republican who made a carreer out of writing nasty books on the royal family. He was mostly obsessed by Prince Bernhard.

He calls the queen 'dumb'. 'Wilhelmina was not a mythical queen but a queen of myth'. He mentions her 'overconfidence, tunnel vision, her unworldliness and her aversion of democracy and parliament', which he blames on her education. He also mentions a quote of American president Franklin Roosevelt, who wrote that the queen was a: 'bigoted [...] impossibly demanding, intensely egocentric old lady'.

Aalders claims that her support was of no value for the Dutch resistance movement, and says that her -and the governments- uninformed decisions that were taken from a distance 'have probably costed hundres of lives'. He even calls her 'a godsend gift to the Gestapo'.

He thinks that her 34 speeches for radio Orange have 'disproportionally contributed to mythmaking'. He says the queen was not brave: 'giving a speech in the safety of a London studio does not need braveness. Her motivation was the continuation of the monarchy'. On Nieuwsuur Aalders also criticized the content of the speeches, which were - according to him - not tough enough. [Note: at the time they were considered too tough by the Dutch cabinet in London -which Aalders ignores].

He blames Queen Wilhelmina's anger eruptions during the war on the use of pervitine - now better known as Crystal Meth, which was also popular in the RAF and the Wehrmacht & easy to make and obtain. A reader of the Volkskrant points out that side effects of pervitine include 'weight loss and an increased sex drive', neither of which were discovered in the queen :innocent:. I do remember an interview with the late prof. Fasseur, biographer of Wilhelmina, who did not mention an addiction in his books. In the interview he did make some veiled references to an addiction to some substance which explained some of the Queen's less lucid letters and comments in these years, but he did not want to write it down in his book as not to harm the trust shown to him by the monarch in opening the family archives.

https://gpdhome.typepad.com/nieuwsber...ilhelmina.html

https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/histori...tapo~aa81fd80/

https://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/dra...ronk~a4594491/

I have not read the book and I will not be buying it. If it would be written by anybody but Gerard Aalders it would have been much more credible. But as said: this man has made a lot of money by trashing the royal family. Although he worked for the NIOD (National Institute for War Documentation), his publications on the royal family have never been taken seriously by other historians. They only sell because he is controversial and writes down lots of conspiracies etc. (the never-found stadhouders-letter of P. Bernhard to name one example).

We can certainly expect him to interpret every piece of information in a negative way. Only last year he was up in arms about a 'conspiracy' in the 70-ties about secret payments to the RF, which was of course quickly rebutted as there was nothing secret about it & it was made public at the time.

I am sure that there were some myths of Queen Wilhelmina & her war years. But it would be nice if he could give a balanced view instead of this vilification. Aalders hatred of the royal family makes this book incredible. But I am sure it will sell well, so the publisher will be happy. One wonder who is next on his agenda to trash. Queen Juliana or Prince Claus perhaps?

CyrilVladisla 09-06-2018 09:37 PM

Queen Wilhelmina with Soong Mai-Ling, wife of Chinese leader Chiang Kai-shek in Ottawa in 1943.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-que...-30238375.html

Lee-Z 09-07-2018 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla (Post 2147829)
Queen Wilhelmina with Soong Mai-Ling, wife of Chinese leader Chiang Kai-shek in Ottawa in 1943.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-que...-30238375.html

And Princess Juliana on the right, if i'm not mistaken..

CyrilVladisla 10-28-2018 06:27 PM

Queen Wilhelmina took the Oath of the Constitution on August 1, 1898.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-que...-21201034.html

Lee-Z 10-29-2018 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla (Post 2165908)
Queen Wilhelmina took the Oath of the Constitution on August 1, 1898.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-que...-21201034.html

Wouldn't have recognized her without the caption :rofl:

Duc_et_Pair 10-29-2018 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla (Post 2165908)
Queen Wilhelmina took the Oath of the Constitution on August 1, 1898.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-que...-21201034.html


It is a beautiful picture but the colours are completely wrong and also the strange position of the Queen's hand is not according the way Dutch monarchs make their solemn pledge.


This picture shows the correct situation: https://www.modemuze.nl/sites/defaul...?itok=DVVVK715

An Ard Ri 10-29-2018 12:31 PM

I noticed that the queen used the Dutch throne at her investiture its a shame its no longer used at the recent ceremonies.

Duc_et_Pair 10-29-2018 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2166077)
I noticed that the queen used the Dutch throne at her investiture its a shame its no longer used at the recent ceremonies.

There is no "the" Dutch throne. There are different thrones, most of them stored or displayed and not in use because tastes differ. Queen Wilhelmina's throne was a true monstrosity, by the way.

Picture: https://paramentica.files.wordpress....willem-iii.jpg

King Willem-Alexander's throne was from Queen Wilhelmina as well:

Wilhelmina
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cxiOUbaU05...00/stoelen.jpg

Willem-Alexander
https://www.koningsdag27april.info/wp...ningstroon.png

It was part of a series of chairs, two of these were re-upholstered and used for the Investiture 2013.

lucien 11-03-2018 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1897496)
I find Roosevelt's assessment of the Netherlands as an "unimportant small country" quite inaccurate considering that, back in 1910, the Netherlands, despite being itself "small", controlled nonetheless the world's third largest colonial empire. I am curious though about Queen Wilhelmina's alleged "autocratic" views. Is that a fair assessment of her personal political beliefs ?

Furthermore, if Wilhelmina indeed had autocratic leanings, did that have any influence at all on the Netherlands' decision to stay officially neutral in World War I and actually lean towards Germany ?

And actually lean towards Germany??No way!

HM was vehemently against the Germans,and the Kaiser for that matter.

|There is a more or less famous incident during WWI...As German troops were in Belgium close to the Dutch border in the southern province of Limburg,a very naive Prince Hendrik thought he might as well pay his brother a visit who was commander of the German troops there.Wilhelmina wasn't kind....to say the very very least as she heard of the impending visit!!It could have had serious implications for Dutch neutrality,but lucky enough,nothing of the kind happened.

Leaning towards Germany,what a laugh.Wilhelmina Always kept Willy at arms lenght and had even less respect for him after he fled to The Netherlands.A Monarch,in her view,never fled his/her country,that was regarded as cowardice by her.She never had any contact with him while he was here in exile.

Somebody 11-03-2018 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2166086)
There is no "the" Dutch throne. There are different thrones, most of them stored or displayed and not in use because tastes differ. Queen Wilhelmina's throne was a true monstrosity, by the way.

Picture: https://paramentica.files.wordpress....willem-iii.jpg

King Willem-Alexander's throne was from Queen Wilhelmina as well:

Wilhelmina
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cxiOUbaU05...00/stoelen.jpg

Willem-Alexander
https://www.koningsdag27april.info/wp...ningstroon.png

It was part of a series of chairs, two of these were re-upholstered and used for the Investiture 2013.

The one that would probably be considered 'the throne' by most Dutch people would be the one used on Prinsjesdag in the Ridderzaal.

Marengo 04-30-2019 05:09 AM

In March 1945 - at the end of WWII - Queen Wilhelmina asked her foreign minister Eelco van Kleffens if he could investigate if Nazi officials were interested in an exchange. The Queen was worried about the fate of Belgian King Leopold III and his family, who were held in captivity in Austria. She ask Van Kleffens to sound out top Nazi officials through the Vatican & see if they were interested in an 'escape route' in exchange for the safe release of the Belgian RF.

Queen Wilhelmina asked her minister this question after she had a meeting with Queen Elisabeth of the Belgians -mother of Leopold III- at the palace in Brussels. Queen Elisabeth shared her concerns that the Germans would murder her family now the end of the war was near.

It is not known what happened to this request. The information was revealed in a new book based on the war diary of Eelco van Kleffens, which has the title 'Majesteit, U kent het werkelijke leven niet' (Majesty, you do not know real life).

https://www.trouw.nl/home/koningin-w...dden~aea9482e/

Duc_et_Pair 04-30-2019 06:09 AM

Queen Wilhelmina was quite active saving royals, wasn't she? She was active in helping Emperor Wilhelm II and his family. Maybe because she was shocked to learn about the fate of her Romanov relatives and feared the same would happen to Wilhelm II and Léopold III.

That she was so worried about Léopold III is remarkable. The Von Sachsen-Coburgs were usurpators of her great-grandfather's throne. They shattered the dream of a United Netherlands under one Crown. Apparently King Léopold III touched some soft spot in Queen Wilhelmina to overcome this initial disapproval.

Mbruno 04-30-2019 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2216037)

That she was so worried about Léopold III is remarkable. The Von Sachsen-Coburgs were usurpators of her great-grandfather's throne.


The thone was never Willem I's by right of birth to be "usurped". In fact, he is as much a "usurper" by your logic as the Saxe-Coburgs.



If you want to "return" the Belgian throne to its "legitimate" heirs by the usual rules of hereditary succession, then it should go back to the Habsburgs.

Marengo 04-30-2019 07:11 AM

:previous:

You are right about the point that you are making. By that logic the area should be with the Bourbon-family (duke of Calabria by now) as the succession of the various counties and duchies that made up the low countries was mostly semi-salic. If we go back long enough one might dispute the rights of the Burbundian branch of the Capet as the family acquired much of the area by bending the succession rules to their favor, extortion and war. By the time Leopold III was reigning I am sure the Orange-Nassau's had ample time to get over the loss of the South. It did take them a long time though, the first Dutch-Belgian state visit only happened during the reign of King Albert I - before WWI.

There were some troubles after the break-up. Leopold II had advanced plans to attack the Netherlands and annex the Southern provinces while after WWI the Belgian government wanted to be compensated for their war effort by annexing parts of our country too. But in 1945 & in the light of all that happened I am sure that was forgotten.

As for Leopold: it seems she always had a soft spot for Leopold. In the 30-ties the contact between the courts of The Hague and Brussels was quite intense, including several (state) visits and various failed peace initiatives that the king and queen co-sponsored. Leopold III even became one of the godfathers of Princess Beatrix. The death of Queen Astrid was a great shock to Wilhelmina, she wrote about it in her memoires IIRC. She mentions him in her war-letters to Juliana, refering to the fate of 'poor King Leopold'.

---
I am not sure if Wilhelmina knew the fate of the Romanovs when Emperor Wilhelm II asked for asylum. But according to Fasseur a fellow monarch standing trial -as some claimed was an option at the time- was even a horror scenario for the Windsors and the British government.

---
Added: article by the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-belgian-king


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