The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   British Royal History (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/)
-   -   Prince William of Gloucester (1941-1972) (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/prince-william-of-gloucester-1941-1972-a-11354.html)

Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy 08-21-2003 11:51 PM

Prince William of Gloucester (1941-1972)
 
1972: Prince William killed in plane crash

Prince William of Gloucester has been killed after his light aircraft crashed and burst into flames.
The prince was taking part in an air race near Wolverhampton in the west Midlands.

His plane, a yellow and white Piper Cherokee Arrow, banked sharply soon after take off, hit a tree and plunged to the ground.

Prince William, 30, and his co-pilot, Vyrell Mitchell, were trapped in the wreckage.

Three boys who tried to reach them were beaten back by the flames.

One of them, Derek Perton, described their frantic rescue attempts.

"We tried to break into the plane's doors and then tried to break it in half by pulling at the tail.

"But it was no good, we had to go back because of the heat," he said.

Investigation

Firemen arrived on the scene a few minutes later but were unable to get near because of the heat of the blaze.

Prince William, a bachelor, was ninth in line to the throne.

He was the eldest son of the Queen's uncle, the Duke of Gloucester.

The Queen has called off a visit to the Olympic Games and ordered family mourning until Prince William's funeral.

Princess Anne has also cancelled her plans to travel to the Olympics and the Duke of Edinburgh, who is already in Munich, will return for the funeral.

The Prime Minister, Edward Heath, has sent messages of condolence to the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester and the Queen.

Government air safety experts have begun an investigation into the crash.

A crowd of about 30,000 people were watching the race at Half Penny Green Airfield.

The race's chief steward, Beverley Snook, has appealed to amateur photographers to submit any cine film and pictures of the accident to investigators.

(more at this link plus a short video of the good-looking Prince William of Gloucester..... :heart: )

https://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2536275.stm

Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy 08-22-2003 12:05 AM

Prince William of Gloucester
From Wikipedia, (Biography)

Prince William of Gloucester (December 18, 1941-August 28, 1972 was the elder son of the late Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester and Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.

His Royal Highness Prince William Henry Andrew Frederick was born at Barnet, Hertfordshire. He spent his early childhood at Barnwell Manor in Northhamptonshire and in Australia, were his father served as governor general from 1945 to 1947. He received his education at Wellesley House Prepratory School, Broadstairs, Kent, and at Eton. After leaving Eaton in 1960, he went to Magdalene College, University of Cambridge to read history. After graduating in 1963, he spent a post-baccalaureate year at Stanford University studying political science, American history, and business. Upon returning to Great Britain, he took a position with Lazards, a merchant bank.

Prince William was the second member of the British Royal Family to work in the civil service or the diplomatic service. (The first was his late uncle, Prince George, Duke of Kent in the 1920s). He joined the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in 1965 and was posted to Lagos as the third secretary to the British High Commission. In 1968, he transfered to Tokyo to accept the post of second secretary (commerical) in the British Embassy. In 1970, the Duke of Gloucester's health began to fail. Prince William resigned from the diplomatic service and returned to Britain. For the next two years, he managed Barnwell Manor and began to carry out public duties as member of the royal family.

A certified pilot, Prince William of Gloucester owned several aircraft and competed in several air shows. He died when the plane he was piloting crashed at Halfpenny Green, near Wolverhampton. He was buried at Frogmore Royal Burial Ground.

Prince William was the heir apparent of his father's peerages, Duke of Gloucester, Earl of Ulster, and Baron Culloden. Upon his death, his younger brother Prince Richard of Gloucester became heir and succeeded to these peerages in 1974. :heart:

https://nga.gov.au/Exhibition/KarshShmith/D...N=12439&MnuID=1
(Adorable picture of a young Prince William of Gloucester... :heart: )

https://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait...&rNo=0&role=sit
(a handsome Prince William of Gloucester....the greek god Adonis has nothing on him :heart: !!!)

sara1981 08-22-2003 12:16 AM

I dont remind that Prince William of Gloucester before!

I knew that Princess Alice in Majesty Magazine when she become 100 year old with Her Majesty the Queen 2 and Princess Margaret before Princess Margaret died.

Sara Boyce

Bianca 08-22-2003 01:18 AM

Sara,
Prince William of Gloucester was the eldest son of Princess Alice, (Duchess of Gloucester) and Henry, Duke of Gloucester. Duke Henry died two years after his son William in 1974. Their youngest son Richard became Duke of Gloucester shortly after.

Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy 08-22-2003 01:27 AM

More information on the family of Gloucester

Henry was the third son of George V and Queen Mary. He was born at York House, Sandringham.
Henry stuttered like his older brother Bertie, and often burst into tears or spasms of high laughter for no apparent reason.

It was because of this that people thought he wasn't that bright.

Because he always seemed to be ill, his parents decided not to put him into the Royal Navy like their older sons had done. Instead, they sent him to Broadstairs Prep School, a first for the Royal Family.

After he was finished school, he still didn't want to join the Navy, so he opted for the Cavalry instead. He ended up loving it, and kept up the job until after the abdication.

Henry often drank too much, but it was something his brothers did as well. A reaction to the strict childhood they had.

In 1928, the King created Henry the Duke of Gloucester.

In the summer of 1935, Henry proposed to Lady Alice Montagu-Douglas-Scott. He wasn't a romantic man, though, and according to Alice, he just mumbled it to her while they were walking.

Alice's father died just three weeks before their planned huge wedding at Westminster Abbey, so the wedding ended up being a toned-down, private family affair.

Bridesmaids at the wedding included the young Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret.

The King died a few months after the wedding, and chaos came upon the Royal Family. The new King, soon to the the Duke of Windsor, abdicated, and the second brother, Bertie, became King.

After this happened, there were only two brothers left (Henry and George, Duke of Kent) to carry out Royal duties. This meant that Henry had to give up his cherished career in the cavalry and become a full-time Royal. He was apparently none too happy about this, but under the circumstances, he had no choice.

Henry spent some time in France in 1941-42, at the Allied HQ. Then, in 1942, when the Duke of Kent died in a plane crash, and Henry became the Governor General of Australia.

In the meantime, Alice had had a number of miscarriages, but they finally had two children. Richard was only a few weeks old when they left for Australia.

Just after they were married, Henry and Alice bought a house, Barnwell Manor, in Northamtonshire. Alice still goes there sometimes. They were very country- oriented people, and didn't live in the city or in palaces often at all. Both of the loved riding, and enjoyed gardening and farming.

Henry suffered his first stroke in the 1960s. He had several other ones in the years that followed, and these impaired his abilities. By the time he died, he was basically a vegetable.

He did not even understand that his son William had died in 1972.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alice was born in Montagu House, London, on Christmas Day 1901. She was the second daughter of the Duke of Buccleuch and Queenbery. Alice's family were a very, very noble, rich family. They could easily pass for royalty. However, Alice herself was and is a woman with very simple tastes. Alice had two siblings, a sister named Sybil and a brother named Billy. Billy joined the army when WWI broke out. Alice and Sybil were sent to school when Alice was 12. The school was for the highly upper-class, and the girls were taught proper etiquette and how to speak Italian. Alice has since forgotten it all (the Italian, at least).

Alice traveled a lot in her youth, especially in Africa. She also visited Billy in India for an extended period of time.

She is a very good watercolourist.

After she married Henry, her story is pretty much what we've got written up there about his life. She was devastated when William was killed in 1972, and this was probably made worse by the fact that Henry didn't comprehend what had happened.

Henry's death didn't seem to devasate her as much as one would expect. But this is perhaps because she was expecting it for some time. Also, by this time she had a new daughter-in-law, and her first grandchild was born just three months after Henry died.

After Henry's death, she continued to take on Royal engagements and such, but lately, due to her age and poor health, she has slowed down considerably. She was even unable to attend the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh's Golden Wedding service because of illness.

William was the first child of Henry and Alice. Queen Mary doted on him big time. He was a daredevil kind of person, and when he was a little boy, he was apparently bad (so was Richard). He was prepped to be Duke, but he never really outgrew the daredevil streak. He learned how to fly airplanes, and entered a flying race. Something went wrong mechanically during the race and his plane crashed, killing him instantly.
It was actually two years after William died that his younger brother Richard became Duke, but since his father was pretty much out of things, he really started his duties of being a duke right off the bat.

Richard also had his new wife to think about, as he had gotten married maybe six weeks before William was killed. Since he had never had to train to be a Duke, Richard had sort of an aimless life. He couldn't decide what to be.

However, since he had liked playing with building blocks when he was little, his brother suggested architecture. So, he went to Cambridge and studied just that.

While at college, Richard met Birgitte van Deurs, who was born in Odense, Denmark. They dated, but after Birgitte finished her school course, she went back to Denmark. Not long afterwards, though, she was back in England, working in the Danish Embassy. They were married within the year.

The family is very quiet, very out of the spotlight.

sara1981 08-22-2003 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Etienne,
good story!

Sara Boyce

Catharine 08-22-2003 03:25 PM

:cry: The good always die young! Some of the best good looking guys died in plane crashes! You have Prince William of Gloucester (30), Joseph "Joe" Kennedy, Jr (28)- (who died in World War II, the oldest brother of President John Kennedy), and John Kennedy, Jr (35) and countless of others. It is depressing that they didn't even begin to have a life (marriage and/or family). How sad, indeed! :heart:

thissal 08-22-2003 05:21 PM

The title of this thread almost gave me a fit of apoplexy at first. :shock: :blink:

USCtrojan 08-22-2003 11:49 PM

I love the Glouchester family. Thank You for this thread and the info.

Wisnu 08-26-2003 11:26 PM

Could somebody send the pictures of him ?

Tks

Elise,LadyofLancaster 08-29-2003 05:05 PM

All I can manage to say is "Wow" and "How sad." Prince William of Gloucester was a real cutie! :heart:

CorinnaAloysius 09-16-2003 10:34 PM

Amazing story about an ambitious man! To bad, he left this world to soon. :heart:

Poppy 10-19-2003 03:23 AM

Howcome that the story said that William and Richard were apparently bad?

sandee 10-19-2003 01:40 PM

Duke, Duchess and Prince of Gloucester
Henry and Alice, Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, with their son Prince William at Eton College on St Andrews Day. (1956)

Prince William on Aircraft Wing
Prince William of Gloucester on the wing of his Piper Twin Comanche aircraft at Cambridge Airport ready to depart on a 3 week trip to Japan. Prince William was killed in 1972 while taking part in the Goodyear Air Race. (August 19, 1968)

He looks so handsome... :heart:

Josefine 02-20-2004 05:10 AM

was prince charles close to this man, i think i heard something about this...

Bubbette 02-20-2004 09:57 AM

Prince Charles was close to his uncle, Lord Mountbatten, who was killed by terrorists. Was this Prince William gay? To be 30 and unmarried at that time seems a bit unusual.

Elspeth 02-21-2004 12:01 AM

Prince William had been having affairs with married women. In her autobiography, Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, said something about feeling sure he was just about ready to settle down and get married when he died, but that might just be wishful thinking.

One of the books about the Charles and Diana problems started off by saying that Prince Charles had looked up to Prince William of Gloucester and tried to emulate him, hence his inclination to have lots of relationships, including with married women. I don't know if the author had any facts to back that up or was just expressing an opinion. Even though Prince William of Gloucester was of the same generation as the Queen (since their fathers were brothers), he was much closer in age to Prince Charles. I've seen a photo somewhere (maybe in the Duchess of Gloucester's book) of her two sons, William and Richard, playing with Prince Charles and Princess Anne.

iowabelle 07-23-2005 10:48 AM

Prince William of Gloucester
 
I just read, in Forbes on-line, that Prince William had been diagnosed with porphyria in 1968. (This was from one of the articles discussing George III's madness and a link to arsenic.) The article stated that other members of the modern Royal Family had also been diagnosed with porphyria.

Have any of you heard that also? I seem to remember some discussion years ago that Margaret had it.

Elspeth 07-23-2005 11:22 AM

It isn't clear from the reports of the research into George III how they know Prince William was diagnosed. I assume that doctor-patient confidentiality would prevent doctors talking to each other about their patients, so it's possible that this is hearsay. It's also possible that it's true, but without seeing the wording in the research paper in the Lancet, it's hard to know what was actually said.

Royal Fan 11-12-2005 01:06 AM

he seems like an interesting man

Queen Mary I 11-12-2005 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thissal
The title of this thread almost gave me a fit of apoplexy at first. :shock: :blink:

This newbie read the title of this older thread too fast-and I nearly had a heart attack!! And you won't believe this-I'm listening to my copy of the late Princess Of Wales Funeral as I read the subject line! I swear my first gray hair just popped up! I'll have to check the mirror.

Very said about this other Prince William. I had read a little bit about him before but not much. RIP dear Prince. :(

Queen Mary I 11-12-2005 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
...One of the books about the Charles and Diana problems started off by saying that Prince Charles had looked up to Prince William of Gloucester and tried to emulate him, hence his inclination to have lots of relationships, including with married women.

Sigh. It's like 'the sins of the fathers' being repeated by the sons. King Edward VII and his grandson The Duke Of Windsor seemed to have the same respect for marital vows as well. :(

Elspeth 11-12-2005 11:14 AM

I've edited the thread title to add "of Gloucester" to avoid any more newbie heart attacks!

lashinka2002 11-14-2005 08:54 AM

Does anyone have anymore pics?Family pics as well?

iowabelle 11-20-2005 05:47 PM

I have read that, in the early 1970s, Mrs. Trowbridge decided to make a play for Prince William (and through her acquaintance with Prince William she met Prince Michael of Kent). After Prince William's death, her relationship with Prince Michael blossomed... and then she became our Marie-Christine (aka Princess Michael). Maybe I'm just repeating gossip. :confused:

iowabelle 11-20-2005 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisnu
Could somebody send the pictures of him ?

Tks

Digging into my distant memory, I know that he was standing in the background for the official photograph taken of the extended Royal Family for the Silver Wedding Anniversary of the Queen and Prince Philip. I thought he was kind of non-descript looking.

Elspeth 11-21-2005 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle
I have read that, in the early 1970s, Mrs. Trowbridge decided to make a play for Prince William (and through her acquaintance with Prince William she met Prince Michael of Kent). After Prince William's death, her relationship with Prince Michael blossomed... and then she became our Marie-Christine (aka Princess Michael). Maybe I'm just repeating gossip. :confused:

I've also read that, probably in the same places you did! There's reported to be antipathy between Princess Michael and the Gloucesters, which one article said was because she courted Prince Michael while visiting Barnwell with her husband while Prince Michael was also a guest. It struck me at the time that that would be a rather prudish reason. It makes more sense that the bad feeling is because she, as a married woman, was setting her cap at Prince William, who was a lot closer to his brother than Prince Michael was. It also seemed unlikely that, if she was as ambitious and status-conscious as she seems to be, she'd be going after the younger son of a youngest son when the heir to a more senior royal dukedom was available.

james 11-21-2005 03:26 PM

Actually he wasn't in the Silver Wedding photo. Prince Michael is the man standing against the wall at the back. For some odd reason none of the Gloucesters were in that picture. It's a mystery as every other member of the Royal Family and their children were in it. I wish I could find a copy of it to post.

Elspeth 11-21-2005 05:08 PM

I think it was something to do with the fact that it was taken shortly after Prince William had died, and the Gloucesters weren't taking part in social occasions or something.

Jackswife 11-21-2005 06:38 PM

This was a great tragedy for the Gloucesters, coming just a few weeks after Richard and Birgitte were married. :( He was not positioned to be heir but both of them have I think fulfilled their roles admirably. I think William had a lot of dash and glamour that would have been a real asset to the royal family over the years but, as is so often the case, things turned out differently.

wartenberg7 11-11-2006 03:00 PM

Prince William of Gloucester
 
I do hope a lot of people post some interesting pictures
of this unfortunately almost forgotten Royal, who has lost his prosperous life at such an early stage (there are some really beautiful ones at Getty, but I don´t know how to browse it...).
I further more hope that people who are lucky to have the book "William of Gloucester - Pioneer Prince" do share with us their impressions on this book!
Thank you all beforehand!

BeatrixFan 11-11-2006 03:43 PM

I hope there are some pics of William around. I haven't seen that many which is a shame as he was truly stunning.

magnik 11-11-2006 03:53 PM

Few links about him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_..._of_Gloucester where is a link to bbc


https://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/po...rNo=0&role=art
https://www.expressandstar.com/millen...1975/1972.html

BeatrixFan 11-11-2006 03:59 PM

I always think of Princess Alice recounting William's death in a 1982 interview. Her voice was shaky and soft and she had a slight tremble in her head and hands. Alice always used to purse her lips together in a sort of nervous twitch and she says, "These things have happened to other people. One just gets on with it". It's just so moving and sad and you realise that this lady lost her son and husband all within 3 years and then had to keep the stiff upper lip of a member of the Royal Family. When you see William's funeral, the Queen walks behind Alice and Alice is totally alone under her black veil - it just makes you want to hug her.

wartenberg7 11-12-2006 04:06 AM

Quote:

When you see William's funeral, the Queen walks behind Alice and Alice is totally alone under her black veil - it just makes you want to hug her
I guess you don´t have any pics of the funeral, do you?

BeatrixFan 11-12-2006 11:22 AM

I dont but if you go the BBC www.bbc.co.uk and choose any video story, stop it and then search "Princess Alice" in the player. There's one video there and it shows an interview with Princess Alice and pictures from William's funeral.

wartenberg7 11-12-2006 01:29 PM

Thanks for the hint, BeatrixFan! But can someone please, who is able to, post pics of this most handsome prince in the british Royal Family for decades, I find (they seem to be very rare indeed by now)?

iowabelle 11-14-2006 05:04 PM

I think Alice probably would have been devastated at William's death. Remember, Alice was pretty old when she got married and then she had several miscarriages before giving birth to Richard and William. She must have felt blessed to have 2 children after her difficulties.

BeatrixFan 11-14-2006 06:05 PM

I agree Iowabelle and I think it was sad that her death went without the attention it deserved. She's the sort of Royal who deserved a state funeral, a statue and endless books and documentaries. She was a true asset to us. It was very sad that she was forgotten.

Elspeth 11-14-2006 06:22 PM

The Gloucesters seem to be forgotten a lot of the time; they've always had a lower profile than the Kents and have caused fewer problems over the years. But I gather William was the enfant terrible of the Gloucester family so we might have seen a lot more about the Gloucesters in the papers if William had lived and had married this divorced woman he supposedly wanted to marry.

RachelD 11-14-2006 06:54 PM

From Corbis:

• The Prince of Malaya and Prince William, son of the Duke of Gloucester, at the ceremony accompanying the declaration of Malayan Independence.

https://pro.corbis.com/images/HU043005.jpg?size=67&uid={c92a91fe-d3c1-4adb-a99d-8578b1b74bf8}

• Prince William of Gloucester on the wing of his Piper Twin Comanche aircraft at Cambridge Airport ready to depart on a 3 week trip to Japan. Prince William was killed in 1972 while taking part in the Goodyear Air Race.

BeatrixFan 11-14-2006 06:59 PM

That first pic really shows how beautiful William was when he was younger. Thankyou for posting.

iowabelle 11-14-2006 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I agree Iowabelle and I think it was sad that her death went without the attention it deserved. She's the sort of Royal who deserved a state funeral, a statue and endless books and documentaries. She was a true asset to us. It was very sad that she was forgotten.

You're right. If history had been only slightly different, Alice could have been Queen of England (a fact forgotten by us "youngsters"), and I think she would have been a formidable Queen.

The Dukes of York and Gloucester were very lucky to have found Elizabeth and Alice.

foiegrass 11-15-2006 02:05 AM

Wow. Prince William.... if only he had lived. the Gloucesters might have a higher profile if he did. he looks very glamorous

wartenberg7 11-15-2006 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
That first pic really shows how beautiful William was when he was younger. Thankyou for posting.

Well, in fact he was very young, only 30, when he died. But you´re right:
he looked simply gorgeous when he was in his early 20s, as the photos to mark his 21st birthday, or taken at the DoKents wedding, proof!
I remember an article in a magazine, where an early Governess, Miss R. Ramirez told about her impression at the first meeting at Marlborough House with the then little prince:" I was struck by the beauty of his face and skin. The blue coat he wore accentuated with the colour of his eyes which were, in fact, grey rather than blue. He was the most rewarding pupil, never at a loss for something to do or talk about - a characteristic later shared by Richard,..."

RachelD 11-15-2006 02:00 PM

Wasn't Alice QEII's favorite aunt?

BeatrixFan 11-15-2006 02:10 PM

That's what they said when she passed away and she certainly showed her fondness for her in public. That special 100th birthday parade the Queen organised and attended was called a "display of affection for Her Majesty's favourite aunt".

wartenberg7 11-16-2006 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelD
From Corbis:

https://pro.corbis.com/images/HU043005.jpg?size=67&uid={c92a91fe-d3c1-4adb-a99d-8578b1b74bf8}

The Prince of Malaya and Prince William, son of the Duke of Gloucester, at the ceremony accompanying the declaration of Malayan Independence.

Then 15 years of age, Aug. 31st 1957

CasiraghiTrio 06-05-2007 11:21 PM

I read a tiny bit of a biography of Prince William of Gloucester (there is only one and it is out of print for a decade or more now) when I was in high school.
I had the luck to come across it in my local library. This was in Burbank, CA in the mid-1990s. Now I cannot find this book anywhere.
I tried to buy it off amazon (even amazon.co.uk) and they don't have any in stock.

Elspeth 06-06-2007 12:01 AM

When Amazon doesn't have something, you could always try BookFinder.com: Search for New & Used Books, Textbooks, Out-of-Print and Rare Books. That'll give you a list of booksellers with the book, and it looks as though there are two biographies available.

The Giles St Aubyn book is available second-hand at amazon.co.uk. That book and the Sheridan book are available second-hand at amazon.com but are quite a bit more expensive.

CasiraghiTrio 08-01-2007 03:27 PM

I think Elspeth will love this especially unless she has already seen it. If not, for everyone who is as fascinated by the Gloucesters' stories as I am, you must pick up a copy of Majesty, Vol.28,No. 8, August 2007, because there is a terrific article (with great pics) by Christopher Warwick to mark the 35th anniversary of his death on 28 August.
Prince William the cutie and his toy boat, by Athol Shmith and one of the pics in aforementioned article!

:flowers:

RachelD 08-01-2007 03:56 PM

Wow! Thanks CasiraghiTrio!
In this picture, he resembles Queen Elizabeth (a little around the eyes) when she was little.

CasiraghiTrio 08-01-2007 04:23 PM

You are most welcome. Like I said, the newest issue of Majesty is a must-have for any Gloucester fan, and if you are a Diana fan (moi aussi) you are sure to love it too.
Three more of Prince William of Gloucester, same source of course:

< picture links expired >

My favorite of these last three is the 21st birthday picture. You can't see his cards well in this capture, but if you get your hands on the magazine, you will notice one of his cards says, "Now you are 21 darling." :flowers I can use those words for another obscure young royal turning 21 in two days, three guesses who. :biggrin:

HRH Kerry 08-01-2007 04:27 PM

He was quite handsome! Ladies man indeed!

Elspeth 08-01-2007 05:29 PM

Thanks for the preview, CasiraghiTrio! Looking forward to receiving my copy of Majesty.

CasiraghiTrio 08-01-2007 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelD (Post 648252)
Wow! Thanks CasiraghiTrio!
In this picture, he resembles Queen Elizabeth (a little around the eyes) when she was little.

It's amazing, isn't it? The sailboat picture took my breath away, a male Lilibet indeed! :biggrin: Apparently, the photo was taken by Athol Shmith when William was four years old. The article points out that by coincidence, Shmith was the first husband of the present Countess of Harewood.

iowabelle 09-06-2007 03:10 PM

Okay, so I just read the new Majesty with the article on Prince William of Gloucester. And it says something that I had never heard, that the Duke of Gloucester (his father) had porphyria. Is this news to everyone else?

Lady Marmalade 09-06-2007 03:22 PM

I read the same thing and did not know that either.

He really was movie star handsome...a slight resemblance to Jude Law in his older pictures...

jcbcode99 09-06-2007 03:54 PM

Porphyria is making the rounds on the board--we were discussing King George III on an earlier thread and it came up. Interesting!
Yes, I agree, Prince William of Gloucester was movie star handsome!

CasiraghiTrio 09-10-2007 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle (Post 663326)
Okay, so I just read the new Majesty with the article on Prince William of Gloucester. And it says something that I had never heard, that the Duke of Gloucester (his father) had porphyria. Is this news to everyone else?

I had read it once before only, on Wikipedia. It says also on Wikipedia that Prince William also had porphyria. It could be true. It's a genetic disease, though rare, but obviously a genetic trait in this family (i.e. George III).
It seems the porphyria gene was passed through the line but, as tends to happen, afflicted only one child of Queen Victoria and then only the Gloucester line. It's a very odd disease, very mysterious.

iowabelle 09-10-2007 03:33 PM

I have also read that Princess Margaret had porphyria, but it's really hard to know since the royals don't usually comment about their health issues. That might have accounted for Margaret's erratic behavior, but I always ascribed her behavior to alcohol and possible depression.

cmkrcwi 09-10-2007 07:22 PM

Hi, this is my first post here but I've been lurking for a few days now.

I read a short biography of Prince William of Gloucester about 25 years ago. I do remember when he was killed in that plane crash. I remember reading that he worked in Japan for a time too He was great friends with Princess Chichibu who was the widow of the then-Emperor's younger brother.

Regarding porphyria, could it be that Princess Margaret's depression was exacerbated by her porphyria?

Warren 11-05-2011 12:23 PM

Prince William of Gloucester
 
The other Prince William: The uncanny parallels between Wills and the dashing but doomed cousin in whose memory he was named | Mail Online

The other Prince William
The uncanny parallels between Wills and the dashing but doomed cousin in whose memory he was named


Excerpts


Two men named William. Both princes, both pilots. Both polo players with a taste for danger. Both Eton-educated, handsome men of the world. One is destined to be our future king, while the other has been long-forgotten.

Yet it is after Prince William of Gloucester, who died young in 1972, that the Duke of Cambridge was named. Next month, the older prince should have been celebrating his 70th birthday, but his life was cut tragically short. William of Gloucester, son of the Queen’s uncle the Duke of Gloucester, was Prince Charles’s hero — the man upon whom the future king modelled himself, and whose example, in so many things, Charles followed.

William of Gloucester was just 30 when the Piper Arrow single-engine aircraft he was piloting in an air race crashed, killing him and his co-pilot outright. The shock that ran through the Royal Family was colossal, but the person most affected by the loss was his first cousin once removed, Prince Charles, who was 23 at the time.

He was the first member of the Royal Family to gain a university place through open competition, the first to arrive without the shadow of a private detective. When he went up in 1960, college staff were instructed to address him as ‘Prince William, Sir’, though the bedmakers who tidied his rooms soon slipped into calling him ‘Mr Prince William’. William was bold, stylish, different. Like his present-day namesake, he loved skiing, shooting and nightclubs — and drove a high-powered sports car.

He signed up for a course at Stanford University in California, broadening his knowledge with the study of American history, German and Russian affairs, and economics. He then travelled incognito through America and Canada. He took a job at Lazard’s merchant bank but hated it. Then, after three attempts at passing rigorous Foreign Office entrance exams, he won himself a job as Third Secretary at the British High Commission in Nigeria.

It was while here that he became aware of the first symptoms of a rare and incurable blood disease called porphyria — the self-same condition that had seized his ancestor George III, and from whom he had probably inherited it through several generations. And when Alan Bennett wrote The Madness Of King George, his Oscar-winning 1994 film, Prince Charles — having learned at first hand through conversations with his cousin William the perils of the disease — interested himself deeply in the production.

As a result, all royal children are now routinely screened for this rare but pernicious condition.

Despite suffering fevers, nausea, and dizziness, William determined it should not affect his career or his leisure pursuits, and applied for a Second Secretary’s job at the British Embassy in Japan. William later resigned from the Foreign Office and took over the running of the family estate. The porphyria which had developed years before had not gone away, and he suffered increasingly uncomfortable symptoms. To ease the stress which came with those symptoms, he stepped up his flying, entering air competitions in his Piper Arrow.

It was on August 28, 1972, that William took off, accompanied by an experienced co-pilot, Lt-Commander Vyrell Mitchell. They were taking part in the Goodyear International Air Trophy being held at Halfpenny Green near Wolverhampton. Soon after take-off, the plane executed a 120-degree turn towards the first leg of the course. ‘The angle of turn made by the Piper Arrow was observed to be too steep,’ according to his old Cambridge supervisor, Dr Ronald Hyam. ‘The aircraft lost height, cut through the top of a large tree, losing part of its wing, then rolled over, diving inverted into the ground, and burst into flames. Both pilots were killed instantly.’ As Dr Hyam adds: ‘It was a desperately sad and terrible end to the life of a remarkable young man of many talents, admired by all who knew him.’

Prince Charles, for a time, paid his own personal tribute to his cousin by growing the mutton-chop whiskers that were William’s trademark. He emulated his cousin on the polo field, on the ski-slopes, in the air, on the grouse moor — and in the bedroom. His relationship with the then Mrs Camilla Parker Bowles had more than an echo of William’s own passionate love for Zsuzui Starkloff.

But in the naming of his first-born son after Prince William of Gloucester, Charles paid the greatest tribute possible to the man he most admired in the world.
.

NGalitzine 11-06-2011 11:06 AM

I would take the fiest part of the story about Charles & William and thier supposed closeness with a huge grain of salt but the rest of the story was interesting.

Vasillisos Markos 11-06-2011 07:10 PM

My dear NGalitzine,

Do you know that the two were not that close? I took from the story that Charles was sort of awestruck by his mother's cousin and Charles wanted to emulate him, not that the two were especially close. However, if Charles did name his first born after this man, that indicates a very close relationship.

Iluvbertie 11-06-2011 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NGalitzine (Post 1334495)
I would take the fiest part of the story about Charles & William and thier supposed closeness with a huge grain of salt but the rest of the story was interesting.


Why would you take that with a grain of salt?

It is not uncommon for young boys to look to an older cousin as a big brother, if they don't have one of their own, and William (along with his younger brother Richard) fitted that bill nicely.


Whether they would have remained close as the 70s unfolded and Charles started to make his own way in the world we will never know but that a young boy/teenager wouldn't be close to an older cousin is perfectly feasible.

NGalitzine 11-06-2011 09:49 PM

I would take it with a grain of salt because of their age disparity and the limited amount of time they would have had to know each other. When Charles was quite young William would already have been away at school and then at Cambridge and Stanford. Charles was off at school in Scotland. By the time Charles was at Cambridge William would have been in Nigeria and then Japan. When William returned to England to look after Barnwell due to his fathers failing health Charles was off on active duty with the Royal Navy. William's life was pretty low key as far as public awareness of his existence went (similar to his brother Richard) so I am unclear where the "glamorous prince" angle comes from, other than the fact that he was quite good looking. There would have been pretty limited opportunities for the 2 princes to know each other very well, and meeting other than at perhaps the Trooping of the Colour or some other large family event such as weddings seems unlikely. The Gloucesters spent their free time at Barnwell when not on official duties, while the Queen and her family would be at Windsor/Sandringham/Balmoral.
Charles went to Cambridge because that is where the palace determined he should go, as had his grandfather before him. Charles has talked about how everything was planned out for him and he really didnt have any say in things. Charles played polo because his father played polo. The Duke of Cambridge is named William because it was a name Charles and Diana liked. They said so at the time that they didnt really know anyone named Willam who was close to them, seemingly having forgotten William of Gloucester.

I am not saying the DM story isn't possibly true, I just have my doubts about it......as I do with most items in the DM. It was a nice article though.

Diarist 11-07-2011 01:59 PM

:previous:

How interesting to read about Prince William of Gloucester.

Whether Charles and William were that close I do not know. But, oddly enough, I have no difficulty in believing that Charles looked up to William! I am giving my age away somewhat ;), but I did post about Prince William a few months back; I will try to find the post again [think it was on a York thread, oddly enough] but basically, I was describing how, when I was a young schoolgirl, Prince William really was THE handsome, man-about-town debonair, brave action-man Prince of his time. He skied very well [at at time before package market ski holidays had taken off and so the whole thing was imbued with a sort of jet-set glamour]. He could pilot a plane, he drove a fast sportscar. He dated beautiful [but highly eligible] aristocratic 'Park Lane gels' [a form of Sloane Ranger before that species was codified.] As I said when I posted previously, he was a type of 'royal James Bond'. Girls adored him. And, as I also posted at the time, it seemed so odd to be posting as I did, because here in 2011 everyone has all but forgotten all about him..........

Even setting-aside the reservations that people have about the DM, because of the shortage of 'dashing handsome role model princes' of the 1960's, I have no difficulty in believing that Prince Charles really did look up to his cousin as a role-model. Prince Michael was seen as relatively quieter and Prince Richard was even quieter and very studious. Prince Charles, I think,always wanted to model himself on all-action heros [possibly because he so admired Lord Mountbatten] and I really do think that Prince William was the most likely role-model.

Alex

KittyAtlanta 11-07-2011 03:56 PM

Oh, my, yes, Alex. Prince William was the cat's whiskers. I remember the day his plane crashed. That night at the pub, all us girls were just beside ourselves that he was gone. He was the epitomy of many a girls' dreams of the perfect man. Only 30, and he was gone.

Iluvbertie 11-07-2011 09:59 PM

I remember a number of the older girls at my school were upset about his death as he was the 'dream boat' prince at the time - more dashing than his brother and Charles was still at uni so not yet fully launched.

Warren 05-13-2012 07:15 PM

A well-put together tribute to the late Prince William of Gloucester made up of many photographs.


Prince William of Gloucester - YouTube



ForgottenRoyals 06-01-2012 07:08 PM

Excerpts from Prince William of Gloucester Bio
 
1 Attachment(s)
On the eve of Queen Elizabeth II’s Diamond Jubilee celebrations, excerpts from a new biography about her cousin, Britain’s Prince William of Gloucester, who was a page in her wedding and died at age 30 in 1972, have been made available, click: Prince William of Gloucester Book

Jenafran 06-01-2012 07:40 PM

Here is article I found on him, pretty good little site!

https://www.annie-sturgis.com/prince-...of-gloucester/

Vasillisos Markos 06-02-2012 12:06 AM

My dear Jenafran,

Thank you for posting the interesting link. I believe the author of the link made a glaring error -- Prince William was not the son of Marina -- she was his aunt who was married to the Duke of Kent. I think Princess Alice was his mother.

Mariel 07-08-2012 11:47 AM

Porphyria affected more than one of Victoria's children
 
It affected at least two more, Princess Vicki and her daughter Charlotte. DNA was done on the bones of Vicki and Charlotte, with the gracious permission of their families. Proved that they had Variegate Porphyria. This is what I read, in any case, in the book The Purple Secret. Supposedly Feodora, Charlotte's daughter, also had it, but this was not subject to DNA scrutiny.

William of Gloucester was diagnosed both in England in the Far East where he was working. I read that his mother, Princess Alice, noticed lesions on his face which can appear in some types of Porphyria, due to sun sensitivity.

Variegate Porphyria (like most porphyria) is a dominant gene, so one of Prince William of Gloucester's parents had it. Sometimes it does not display intense symptomology, because it mostly produces symptoms in the face of "triggers", which can be prescription drugs (not all prescriptions, however) a few foods, many environmental triggers such as new carpeting, new composite cabinetry, herbicides, pesticides, and gasoline fumes, and some endogenous triggers such as hormone changes, especially in women.

It seems unlikely that the present Duke of Gloucester, Richard, or his family, have Porphyria. He did not seem to inherit. Inheritance is at 50% on average.

auntie 07-08-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle (Post 665208)
I have also read that Princess Margaret had porphyria, but it's really hard to know since the royals don't usually comment about their health issues. That might have accounted for Margaret's erratic behavior, but I always ascribed her behavior to alcohol and possible depression.

Why is it that anyone unstable in the BRF is doomed to be under suspicion of porphyria ,when there could be so many other reasons...

Mariel 07-08-2012 04:13 PM

Excellent thinking, Auntie. Porphyria IS hard to diagnose in some cases, because of tests that may not be done properly, but there ARE tests, especially for those in the royal family who may have the same DNA in this area. There are very good testers in France, for instance, at the French Porphyria Institute.
Although I have thought some other royals may have the disease, from symptoms and sometimes behavior (not all porphs "act out" in noticeable behavior) I have only mentioned those who are actually diagnosed by some medical means, whatever was available in modern times or in, say, the time of James I/VI of England and Scotland.

I do not have any knowledge of Princess Margaret having had porphyria. But if she was depressed or erratic, it could possibly have been the combination of drinking alcohol and having a Porphyria trait just waiting to be triggered by alcohol. Porphyria patients cannot drink ANY alcohol. If they do, and if they can remain conscious during it, they will inevitably become erratic and/or deeply depressed. It is a biological reaction.

Mariel 07-08-2012 05:55 PM

Thank you for those wonderful pictures of Prince William of Gloucester and his family, and even his girlfriend, also amazing looking. The YouTube presentation, with music, is marvelous, don't miss that one even if you have seen other pictures. As he got older (closer to 30, his final year) he looked a little heavier, a little tiny bit like the actor Liam Neeson when he was younger...that's not a perfect comparison but one can't help comparing. He was beginning to look a little more like his father Henry, but still had the chiseled features of his mother Princess Alice.
This is the first time I've taken a good look at Prince William of Gloucester, and I am impressed. Can't thank you enough.
The only other YouTube presentation I have seen similar to this is one of Guillaume of Luxembourg, also with great music. It is called just Prince Guillaume. Guillaume is also now 30 years of age.

Artemisia 08-24-2012 07:53 PM

How the Queen sabotaged my passionate affair with her cousin: Zsuzsi Starkloff tells the story of how Prince William of Gloucester fell for her and scandalised the royals in the process
Quote:

Forty years on, she still wears the prince’s ring on a chain around her neck, its weight and royal insignia a daily reminder of what might have been. She could have married into the Royal Family, but instead she lives a modest existence on a mountain-top in Colorado, many thousands of miles from the world and the intrigues of the House of Windsor which caused her downfall. Otherwise, Hungarian-born Zsuzsi Starkloff could have been Duchess of Gloucester, with a sprawling estate in Northamptonshire and a grace-and-favour apartment in Kensington Palace. Her natural modesty and cool good looks would have won her many admirers and a place in the nation’s heart.

Warren 08-24-2012 08:03 PM

No doubt somewhat overstated, but for what it's worth...

MailOnline, 25 August 2012

How the Queen sabotaged my passionate affair with her cousin: Zsuzsi Starkloff tells the story of how Prince William of Gloucester fell for her and scandalised the royals in the process

excerpts

Forty years on, she still wears the prince’s ring on a chain around her neck, its weight and royal insignia a daily reminder of what might have been. She could have married into the Royal Family, but instead she lives a modest existence on a mountain-top in Colorado, many thousands of miles from the world and the intrigues of the House of Windsor which caused her downfall.

Otherwise, Hungarian-born Zsuzsi Starkloff could have been Duchess of Gloucester, with a sprawling estate in Northamptonshire and a grace-and-favour apartment in Kensington Palace. Her natural modesty and cool good looks would have won her many admirers and a place in the nation’s heart. Instead, the unseen forces of the Establishment and a fatal plane crash put paid to a love which, though it remained largely secret, shook the royal court to its core.

Today, surrounded by mementos and photographs of her ill-starred affair, 78-year-old Mrs Starkloff has broken her decades-long silence to talk to the Mail about the love of her life. In August, 1972, her lover, the spectacularly handsome Prince William of Gloucester, died instantly, aged just 30, when his Piper Arrow light aircraft stalled on a tight turn in an air race and crashed to the ground. A grandson of King George V, he was the Queen’s first cousin and the most dazzling royal of his generation. Clever, cool, athletic and muscular, William was a hero-figure to the young Prince Charles, who modelled himself on his older cousin and, ten years later, named his first-born after him.

But despite his natural gifts, the prince’s one fatal flaw was that he had fallen for an older woman who was both a divorcee and a foreigner. The prince could have anything he wanted in life, but not her. For the powers-that-be at Buckingham Palace had already labelled Zsuzsi Starkloff ‘the new Mrs Simpson’ and were out to break the romance in any way they could.

The rules surrounding royalty back in the 1970s were very different. On the plus side, Prince William took his royal position extremely seriously. For him, the idea of being caught with his trousers down, a la Prince Harry, would be repugnant. On the minus side, the nation’s first family was propped up by a cant and hypocrisy which extended all the way up to the Queen herself. In 1972, William’s clear intention to wed a divorcee was greeted with apoplectic horror, and yet only six years later his cousin, Prince Michael of Kent, did just that, marrying a Czech-born divorcee with the full approval of the Queen and court.

Today, Mrs Starkloff looks back with a surprising lack of rancour at the way she was forced out of her lover Prince William’s life. She says: ‘He explained to me that it was his family’s fear that he would be likened to the Duke of Windsor. They wanted an end to the affair.’ ‘William had a huge loyalty to his family — he wanted to do the right thing — and of course I supported him in that,’ says Mrs Starkloff, lightly shrugging off the Mrs Simpson parallel. ‘He had to make up his own mind, and he did that without influence from me.’

The couple met when William, aged 27 and on attachment to the Foreign Office, was working as a junior diplomat at the British Embassy in Tokyo. Tall, slim and beguilingly charming, he’d had a string of girlfriends but became smitten by Zsuszi, a Hungarian ex-model, after the pair met at a party. ‘He was quite a man,’ recalls Mrs Starkloff. ‘He was very manly, very passionate. And mature beyond his years.’

From the start, the prince was transfixed. He wrote home to his parents, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, asking what their reaction
‘They were against it,’ Zsuzsi says. ‘It came as no shock to me. I was seven years older than William for a start, divorced, and a different religion. I knew it was doomed.’ Even so, still he persevered. His old schoolfriend, Giles St Aubyn, recalled: ‘She was witty, intelligent, attractive. William sparkled in her company. ‘But the relationship overshadowed everything else. It resulted in a period of great anguish for him, for it involved him in disagreements with his friends and family.’ One friend from that time, businessman Shigeo Kitano, recalls seeing the couple together: ‘Prince William was obviously deeply in love with her. She was very beautiful.

Zsuzsi recalls: ‘He organised a trip to Scotland to visit his uncle, the Duke of Buccleuch, and we spent some time there before going to the Prince’s country home, Barnwell. His father had suffered a stroke and was very ill. He was in a wheelchair. ‘I had a wonderful welcome from the Duchess (of Gloucester). She was warm and friendly, sitting with her flowers and her needlework, and we chatted. But she was very reserved and it was hard to know what she was really thinking.’ Much the same as all the other royals, no doubt? ‘She didn’t show it, but I’m sure that it was there,’ says Mrs Starkloff.

Mrs Starkloff is in no doubt that, having twice apparently deserted her, it was now William’s intention to show his commitment by proposing marriage. However, it was not to be. On August 28, 1972, he climbed into the pilot’s seat of his Piper Cherokee Arrow at an air race near Wolverhampton in the West Midlands, and perished when his plane crashed and burst into flames within minutes of take-off. He died wearing a replica of the ring that he gave Zsuzsi — made for him by craftsmen at her special request. Two years later, when his father died, the royal dukedom that should have come to him passed instead to his younger brother, Richard. What caused the pilot error which took the life of both Prince William and his co-pilot Vyrell Mitchell will never be known.

‘Perhaps my fondest memory is of a formal dinner, with many tables,’ she says now. ‘We had only met once before. He walked slowly across the room and came up to me and asked: “May I borrow Cinderella for a dance?” ‘He died wearing my ring. And I still think about him every day.’

Mariel 08-24-2012 09:29 PM

This is such a tragic, romantic story. To think that just six years later, a marriage between a royal (duke of Kent) and a divorced Catholic was sanctioned. But true tragedies cannot have "happy endings", but it's happy in the sense that she still wears his ring around her neck and remembers him with love.
Concerning Prince Williams diagnosis of porphyria, this is how I read it. One story says it was first dx'd in Africa where he was working, and this rings true, since African doctors are usually more capable of dx'ing porphyria, since the type William had is so common in South Africa that I've read that one out of five hundred people have it (from a Dutch gene). I also read that the first hint of it was when Princess Alice saw a lesion on his face and had him tested--she obviously had some knowledge of lesions occurring on skin in VP, particularly with sun exposure. And a British doctor then diagnosed him on the basis of symptoms and on the basis also of having read the new book, written by two physicians who were mother and son, about how George III and others in the family probably suffered from porphyria.

I have recently read the book, The Purple Secret, about porphyria in the royal family, and I have to amend my above post (written some time ago) about the DNA studies on the bones of Queen Victoria's daughter Vicki and Vicki's descendant Feodora. These studies seemed positive for Vicki (but not absolute, due to age of the bones) but were impossible to succeed with Feodora, due to mixing of her remains with that of her husband, with whom she had been buried. However, this book does give an exhaustive study of the symptoms which led the authors to believe in the existence of porphyria in the royal family.

I myself have porphyria, and I can attest that their explanation of symptoms is accurate, exhaustively so. Perhaps only someone like me could be interested enough to read these exhaustive accounts of others in the family, in modern times, who probably had porphyria, or were indeed diagnosed with it (the diagnosed ones were not the more famous royals of modern times, but were relatives).

Obviously I had feel an especial attraction to the Gloucestors because of this, and am particularly interested in two things. I enjoy the Scottish descent of Princess Alice, who was more the Scots/Hungarian type, like the Stewart family, than the other Germanic royals. My porphyria line is also Scottish, and goes back to the middle ages and connection to the Stewarts, discovered only after my diagnosis prompted me to take a look at my roots.
Secondly, I am here to say that probably the present Duke of Gloucester and his descendants (Richard) are free of porphyria. He shows no signs, nor do his children, from what I've read, which is of course not like knowing them first hand. What a dandy family!

Probably William got his porphyria from his father, who has been written up in one post here as being constantly ill as a youngster. But Princess Alice's descent from the Stewarts and their relations is very suggestive, as is her knowledge of what is an outward sign of porphyria ( a lesion). Probably Princess Alice did not have it, but simply had read a lot about it, because of family knowledge of it. The fact that she lived to be very old does not preclude it, as porphs can often live to ripe old ages, especially if they know what triggers to avoid and what lifestyle is best for them.
Prince William seems to have been very active and capable, and could have lived a long life had he not been smitten by "fate".

Queen Camilla 08-25-2012 01:54 AM

The Queen could not have sabotaged her affair with Prince William if she dated him for 2 years and he was going to propose but he died.

None story, he was 6th in line when he died. No comparison to Edward.

Nico 08-25-2012 07:17 AM

Well it's quite unexpected.
A bit far fetched too, and the number of inaccuracies is quite appealing (well it's the DM). I really doubt this lady would have been a "popular minor royal", look at the present Duchess of Gloucester , practicaly unknown from the public.
40 years later the lady seems a little bit bitter...

Warren 08-25-2012 11:09 AM

There's something about contemporary tabloid-type journalisam which not only raises the hackles but casts doubt on the credibility of what is claimed to have happened, or what is claimed to be the attitudes of various individuals involved. I'd expect experienced journalists to be aware of the obvious pitfalls (surely they don't knowingly undermine the credibility of their own reports?) but this article contains a few examples of those warning or "treat with caution" signals.

Did the Queen really "sabotage" or even "attempt to sabotage" Prince William's relationship?
Was any member of the Royal Family in the least "scandalised" by William's relationship?
Apart from rolling out the tanks into the streets, what "forces" of The Establishmenrt are visible?
Was the royal court really "shaken to the core" by William's "largely secret" love?
Why is Prince William's "falling for an older woman who was both a divorcee and a foreigner" described as "a fatal flaw"?
Did "the powers-that-be" at Buckingham Palace really label Zsuzsi Starkloff "the new Mrs Simpson"? [attaching the label of "the new..." to anything has always seemed to me to be entirely a media creation.]
In 1972 was William's intention to wed a divorcee really "greeted with apoplectic horror"? [note that it is unstated exactly whose horror was apoplectic]
...and so on.

The question of a non-Anglican royal marriage continues to perplex many journalists who are willing to trot out inaccurate furphies but who never attempt to rationalise or even explain them...
Zsuzsi's Jewishness is touched upon in the article which claims that it was considered a problem or obstacle. That may or may not have been the case a tthe time but there is no explaantion of how or why it would be a problem or obstracle, or who considered it to be as such.
There's nothing in the Act of Settlement or Royal Marriage Acts that debars Jewish people from marrying into the Royal Family, or for a Royal to convert to Judaism for that matter. It falls into the same category of often-claimed but never-explained assertions such as "they couldn't allow Diana to marry a Muslim" or "if she had a child by Dodi it would mean William and Harry had a Muslim half brother or sister" or "if Diana converted to Islam it would mean the future King's mother was a Muslim." Yes, it probably would, and?

The meeting with the Duchess of Gloucester is not treated as well as I believe it should have been by an attentive journalist. Zsuzsi is quoted as stating "‘I had a wonderful welcome from the Duchess (of Gloucester). She was warm and friendly, sitting with her flowers and her needlework, and we chatted. But she was very reserved and it was hard to know what she was really thinking.’ Any Royal Watcher worth their salt would be aware that the Duchess of Gloucester was notorious for being "very reserved", and Cecil Beaton had commented on her personality in much less diplomatic language.

Anyway, these examples are just meant to highlight how I believe writers and journalists can undermine their own credibility by preferring repetitive and obvious hyperbole to calm and factual description.
On a lighter note, it can also be used in a pejorative manner; one article I read this week about Prince Harry referred repeatedly to his being seen in the company of young women "wearing skimpy bikinis". As if bikinis came in any other size! :smile:

Mariel 08-25-2012 02:13 PM

Warren, I agree that Prince William and Zuzu (I can't spell her name, although I knew another Zuzu who was Jewish) would have married had he not died. He could have had a morganatic marriage if the crown did not want his title to descend to his children, and his newly married brother Richard could have had children who inherited the title. It's interesting that the Act of Settlement does not preclude marriage to a Jew, only marriage to a Catholic. I had not known that. Yes, the tabloids make big frou-frous of things. The Queen probably did not stop a marriage, and would not have done so. So there you are quite right!

Zuzu and her two children would have been an ideal family for William, had he desired to not pass his Porphyria gene on to children. She already had a family. We know today that children from a prior relationship can be integrated in a royal family, as in the case of Marius with the Norwegian royal family, the "natural son" of the Crown Princess. I have admiration for the Norwegian family for handling this well.
And their reward: the beautiful Ingrid-Alexandra. Well, I'm frou-frouing like a tabloid myself. We porphs are known to be emotional, although most of us are NOT mad like George III. We tend to talk too much...or laugh unexpectedly like Henry, Duke of Gloucester, Prince William's father.

NGalitzine 08-25-2012 03:42 PM

^^^^^
There is no such thing as a morganatic marriage in the UK.
If permission to marry had been denied (unlikely) all William would have lost would have been his place in the line of succession. Nothing could have prevented him, as the eldest son, from inheriting the dukedom and his male line descendents would have followed him in succession to the dukedom.

Mariel 08-25-2012 10:29 PM

Thanks for that information about morganatic marriages not existing in the UK, NGalitzine. That seems to have been the path chosen by the Luxembourg ducal family when their son Louis had an out-of-wedlock child and then married the mother, Tessy and had another child. He gave up his right to succession. It seems almost ridiculous that he gave up this right for this reason. His wife is a commoner, but then his mother was a commoner too, is that not right? Prince Louis and Princess Tessy are in almost all pics of the royal family at work, seemingly being hard working royals, and their cute children are also featured, the only children in that generation so far. So giving up one's right to succession seems to be based not on whether one is "equal" in the sights of some dynastic arbiter, such as Carlos of Bourbon Parma, who irritated Duke Jean of Luxembourg mightily when he commented on the marriage of Maria Teresa and Prince Henri of Luxembourg as "unequal." She was definitely not dynastically equal, nor are most of the royal brides of Europe and the UK today. So Tessy and Louis, the most successful worker-bee pair in the present ducal family, should be back in the "lineup". Not that they are likely ever to become "grand duke and duchess", with several ahead of them, but it would be nice to remove the stigma. Or is it not a stigma in royal circles?
Commenters on this forum all seem to love Tessy, and she seems to sail along as a prominent member of the family (as far as pictures go). The girl has grit!

Warren 08-26-2012 09:34 PM

:previous:
You will be pleased to hear that rehabilitation of sorts has already occurred.
Louis and Tessy married in September 2006 when she became Tessy de Nassau. On National Day in June 2009 Grand Duke Henri created her HRH Princess Tessy of Luxembourg; at the same time their sons Gabriel de Nassau (born 6 months prior to his parent's wedding) and Noah de Nassau were each created HRH Prince of Nassau.

Louis did not regain his place in the line of succession but more importantly his wife and children were raised in rank and style, making the family happily royal highnessed. :smile:

Iluvbertie 08-26-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla (Post 1454893)
None story, he was 6th in line when he died. No comparison to Edward.

He was actually 9th - Charles, Andrew, Edward, Anne, Margaret, David, Sarah and his father, Henry.

Kataryn 08-27-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariel1 (Post 1455096)
Thanks for that information about morganatic marriages not existing in the UK, NGalitzine. That seems to have been the path chosen by the Luxembourg ducal family when their son Louis had an out-of-wedlock child and then married the mother, Tessy and had another child. He gave up his right to succession.

That is exactly the point - at least that was considered to be the reason Louis gave up his place in the succession. While his father could create the firstborn son a HRH Prince of Nassau, the Grand Duke could not add this child to the line of succession as his parents were not yet married when he was born. Thus little Gabriel could never be Louis' heir when it came to the succession rights but his younger brother could. Now the two brothers are equal in title which is IMHO an important thing when it come to family dynamics. In all other aspects Tessy and her sons are officially recognised as part of the Grand Ducal family and I believe Louis' parents have come to like her very much.

Mariel 09-22-2012 05:29 PM

I see your point, Kataryn. It was wise to keep the two sons of Louis and Tessy, that is, Gabriel and Noah, on the same level.

NGalitzine 09-22-2012 05:35 PM

How have the Luxembourgs and their marriages become a topic for discussion on a thread about William of Gloucester, a British Prince?

Mermaid1962 09-22-2012 08:54 PM

:previous: It's because of the discussion of Prince William of Gloucester and morganatic marriage.

CasiraghiTrio 03-04-2014 11:34 AM

Please visit my new tumblr about Prince William of Gloucester.

The Never Forgotten Pioneer Prince

Jacknch 03-04-2014 02:25 PM

Thank you so much for the link to your Tumblr - it's excellent!

Tarlita 03-04-2014 03:28 PM

Yes a great tumblr about Prince William, a dashing young man who became very handsome and died far too young.

CyrilVladisla 04-13-2014 10:12 PM

Was Prince William a godfather?
If Yes, who were his godchildren?
The Peerage indicated that Alexander William Stonor-Saunders is the son of Donald Saunders and Hon. Julia Stonor. He was educated at St. Andrews University.
It is nice that Alexander has his godfather William's name as his first middle name.
When heir to his father the Duke of Gloucester, William was known as HRH Prince William of Gloucester, not HRH the Earl of Ulster, his father's second title.

Ish 04-13-2014 10:20 PM

Wikipedia's (imcomplete) list of godchildren of members of the British Royal Family lists Alexander William Joseph Stonor-Saunders (born 1964) as Prince William's godchildren. It doesn't list any additional godchildren, but again it's an incomplete list.

Ish 07-28-2014 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla (Post 1690624)
When heir to his father the Duke of Gloucester, William was known as HRH Prince William of Gloucester, not HRH the Earl of Ulster, his father's second title.


That's because you only use a courtesy title if you don't have one of your own. Earl of Ulster would have been a courtesy title, while Prince was his own title.

Similarly, Charles was never Earl of Merioneth, William was never Earl of Chester (or Earl of Carrick, or Baron Greenwich), George is not Earl of Strathearn... The current Dukes of Kent and Gloucester did not use courtesy titles prior to becoming peers either.

The only recent exception is Viscount Severn, who uses the style by courtesy only because he is not styled as a royal.

Tomkins 11-30-2014 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbette (Post 76842)
Prince Charles was close to his uncle, Lord Mountbatten, who was killed by terrorists. Was this Prince William gay? To be 30 and unmarried at that time seems a bit unusual.

Er- yes. William was handsome, went to Eton where all the boys had affairs, and had to be rescued while on holiday in Morocco with a most unsuitable flamboyant homosexual by the then hidebound British government because he spent too long in male brothels- apparently, and it was in danger of becoming public knowledge. He did also like older married women- mostly as cover for his real predilections. Several friends/lovers of his, including ex- teachers/authors/judges who were with him at Eton, clearly knew very well that his true affections were not exactly going to enamour him to the establishment at the time, sadly for him. Thank god things have changed to a large extent, tho if a senior member of the royal family came out as gay nowadays one wonders. I'm sure the public would be extremely supportive.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises