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-   -   I Feel Sorry For Alexandra (https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/i-feel-sorry-for-alexandra-1024.html)

Poppy 10-16-2003 08:42 AM

Please don't mind, but I sorta feel a bit sorry for Alexandra,
because she is soon to be the third lady of the royal family.
She use to sit and stand closely to the Queen or the Prince Consort, but in
the near future, she's going to be third important and Mary is going
to be given soo much attention, much more than Alix.
You can now already see the difference. Also at many royal functions, it will
always be Mary first.
I'm just used to Alix being Denmark's only royal daughter-in-law, in official photos the only woman standing between the Crown Prince and Prince Joachim, and the Queen followed immediately by Alexandra.

I don't usually feel like this, I didn't feel sorry for Princess Laurentine of The Netherlands when Maxima married into the family, because Maxima just looked soo vivid, happy, outgoing, nice and friendly espcially with her big jolly smile.
Whereas, Mary looks err..in my opinion, "determined", ,snobbish, not friendly, and just not as down-to-earth and kind like Alexandra and Maxima. Don't know whether she'd be kind to Alix or would use her Crown Princess status and compete with Alix. In conclusion, I don't like Mary. Excuse me for this, people.
:flower:

USCtrojan 10-16-2003 09:45 AM

DITTO!! I loved having Alexandra right up there with HM.... Now she is going to be replaced by someone who only wanted to marry a Prince................ Personally I dont think that she loves Fred.. He only loves her. Who knows, in due time maybe the Danish people and world will really know who she is and what she really wanted. Too bad it will be too late....

holly*anja 10-16-2003 10:17 AM

Hey guys....let's give Mary a chance and see what she can do! Who knows, maybe she and Alex will find great ways to use their status as royal daughters-in-law (and princesses) to benefit the people of Denmark even more!

Hey - call me an optimist. Call me crazy - but I just don't see Mary as the golddigger that many people do. She's a lucky girl. She's in love. Personally, I'm happy for her and am excited to watch her turn into a princess... :flower:

Josefine 10-16-2003 10:22 AM

I'm not worried about Alexandra she seems to be a strong women
It can be hard to have to step back but I think the Danish people will always love her and respect her so she will have a prominent place in the royal family
She may very well be like a mentor for Mary,
Mary could learn loads from Alexandra

Poppy 10-16-2003 10:53 AM

I don't think she loves Fred as well. Fred looks like a little kitten now (infact I think Joachim is much more better than him in many areas, Fred doesn't really look like someone who steps firmly on the ground) and probably in the in future he is going to be controlled. A crown prince controlled by his crown princess and later his queen, is she going to be become a mariarch (excuse me for the spelling, it's incorrect I guess), phew..that Denmark is only a constitutional monachy and not an absolute!

Alexandra is ofcourse a strong, firm and intelligent woman, but her kindness is her weakness, many kind people can be tripped by wicked people. Yeah, Mary has alot to learn from Alexandra, and after she had used Alix, she would probably start to show her real side.

Man...this is so unfair. Alix should become queen.

paulette 10-17-2003 12:47 PM

I can't directly accept the fact that it's not anymore Alexandra who would be in between the two princes but Mary is already there also smiling... :(
I also feel sad for I know that the press' attention would be divided among the two. I would really be sure that after their wedding, the papparrazi would keep on following her so it's like less attention would be given to Alexandra.
But I know that Alex don't need the cameras to show to the world that she is doing her job and fulfilling her duties sincerely. She is a kind of person I really admire the most for you could not see in a person good traits all rolled into one just like her. Very prudent, beautiful, caring and compassionate. I know that Alex would not ignore Mary for she knows that Mary would be a nice royal and she has also a special skill in her just like Alex.

I would even tell that Alex have welcomed Mary with open arms and she can even teach her a LOT of things regarding her role and deal with adjustments. Both two are unique so I both adore them. Examples of women who are fashionable and their people are very proud of them.

bramair 10-17-2003 06:27 PM

Although I wish Alex could have become queen, I think she will keep doing her royal and charity duties, and since she also works for UNICEF, I believe her global influence will grow.

I have a feeling that Mary might choose to do different sorts of things from Alex, e.g., patron different types of establishments from the ones Alex has already sponsored.

I don't think Alex will ever be ignored, because unlike Princess Anne, who was unpopular compared to Diana despite her extensive charity work (and didn't get as much attention), Alex has a very appealing personality and image, and a genuine caring that shows through in her photos (I read that she had a very charming personality ever since she was a child).

I do hope Alex and Mary become friends. I liken their situation to the situation of glamorous actresses in Hollywood. Surely there is room for both of them. Maybe Mary will become more popular after she gives birth. If Mary and Alex don't become close friends, I'm sure Alex will be professional enough to get along with Mary.

George 11-01-2003 02:08 AM

Believe me on this one: IF MD is dumb enough to make a quip to Alex,
Alex will put her in her place, or just ignore her. Some palace established
respected folks will do just that to MD: trust me on this: they will say something
to her or about her within hearing, and make her know .

so relax, she will get a taste of her own. when she pushes the envelope too far.

hrhcp 11-01-2003 10:35 AM

You are right .. in that Alexandra slips (officially) from second place to third place.

And officially she is ... I would think .. patron of various organizations that they really wouldn't take away from her and give to MD ?

Unofficially, she is number one and will always be number one in her way. She's the alternative to the Queen and the future Crown Princess .. because people always like underdogs, imo.

Louise 11-21-2003 11:54 AM

I really don't understand why you're all so negative about MD. Why don't you at least give her a chance to show what she's made of.
Of course she's not going to get any of Alexandras official duties, they're given (I don't know if thats the correct term, but in lack of a better word) to her personaly, not because she so far has been the yongest woman of the royal family.
And I was just wondering why most of you see her as snobish. In the official situations she has been in, it is quite natural that she has been nervous, couldn't that expalin her appearance? :rolleyes:

Olivia 11-22-2003 02:08 PM

agreement! I think her appearance is a little strange. It's not the style I like. It seems that she is not very friendly and warm-kinded.

Rosequeen 11-22-2003 05:51 PM

I couldn't agree more! But I don't believe that a peasent girl from Tasmania can make Alexandra invisible.

Look at the facts:
Alexandra is an intelligent young woman with style - she has lived in the world and know how to behave. She knew how to dress even before she had royal stylists to help her. She knew well enough not to speak Danish before she could do it perfectly!

What has Mary? Nothing of the above - and she doesn't even has a fiancée to help her. Fred doesn't lift a finger to support her, wait for her when the step out of cars at official arrangements or talk to her during royal dinners.
poor Mary she may be a golddigger - that was my first impression of her - but she is just so misplaced in the role of a princess.

cille 11-23-2003 05:57 AM

I am very sorry, but I just cannot feel sorry for Alexandra. She knew when she married Joakim, that she would not become queen of Denmark. And if you think Mary is snobbish, I think you should take into account that Alexandra "loves" Denmark so much, that she spends one quarter of the year in Hong Kong, because she cannot get use to the cold weather in Denmark. This is eventhough her parents live with her in Denmark. And just so you know. When she travels to Hong Kong she sits in first class, while her kids and there nanys fly coach. So I do not know who is more of a snob. Mary or Alexandra.

If you go to Copenhagen you will be able to meet Mary at HM, that is really not being snobbish. When we talk abaou style. Mary looks young and beautifull, whereas Alexandra looks boring and old wearing the same outfits as the queen who is much older than Alexandra.

I cannot help, but I love having Mary join the Danish Rayal Family, and from the look of it, the queen loves it too.

sky 11-23-2003 06:47 PM

How do you know all of this and does she take her parents with her to hong kong also?

Jasl 11-25-2003 01:55 AM

I know it's really just difference of opinion, but I just feel that judging someone from photos without ever knowing what that person is kinda superficial. Anyway, here's just a couple of things I don't completely agree with:

Quote:

, Mary has alot to learn from Alexandra, and after she had used Alix, she would probably start to show her real side.
Yes Mary has a lot to learn from Alex. And apparently Alex was kinda supportive of Mary during the engagement (apparently there was a picture of Alex with her arm on Mary's arm). But then I have difficulty with the phrase "and after she has used Alix"... can we read Mary's mind and know for certain that this is her intention? If we're not blessed with the ability to read minds, where's the justification for this comment? And Mary's real side... what, her good side (well apparently to some she's already already displaying her snobbish side so there's only the good side left)!

Quote:

agreement! I think her appearance is a little strange. It's not the style I like. It seems that she is not very friendly and warm-kinded.
Some people are not able to show their caring side to the camera. I think personally people are mistaking Mary's nervousness for snobishness. Look at her early photos - she's always smiling etc. But if you still think she's not warm-hearted (though I don't know how one can make such a conclusion just by looking at photos) then we just have a difference of opinion.. that's cool. A smiling Mary doesn't necessarily make a nice Mary, but just as there's "innocent until proven guilty", I don't see a problem with my thinking that she's a nice person now. On the other hand until someone can show something she's done that was so wrong, so despicable, so unkind, then I don't think we have a right to say she's calculating etc.

Quote:

I couldn't agree more! But I don't believe that a peasent girl from Tasmania can make Alexandra invisible.
I have no idea what this quote is all about. Firstly, what exactly is a "peasant girl"? Australia is an egalitarian society and it's not right to say that a particular Australian is a "peasant" - there's no hierarchy upon which Australians are judged by their fellow countrymen. When they go out to the world, all Australians I think stand equal to anyone else in the world - they are not prejudged at home so why should they be oversease? If it was commoner v royalty, i suppose that's acceptable. But Alex was a commoner too so I don't see the problem.

Also I suppose "peasant" has connotations with impoverishness. But Mary was never impoverished and even if she was, so what? Being impoverished doesn't make you less of a person. How discriminatory is it for a poor person to be belittled just because that person is poor? Woteva.... my opinion only but I think the quote in question is completely meritless.

Quote:

She knew well enough not to speak Danish before she could do it perfectly!
Goodness, if I took this advice to heart I'd be dead before I'd be able to do all the things I wanted to do! Mary has done it and it sounded lovely even if not perfect. The Danes didn't think it was all bad (but apparently a number of non-Danish speaking message board posters thought it was "pathetic"... huh?), Mary admitted it wasn't her best Danish, so now she knows that she has to try harder.

Also, Alex's Danish wasn't perfect when she came out. I don't think it was in this board but Alex's first sentence in Danish was "This is my first speak in Danish". Should people have stopped Alex from trying to speak Danish? So what if it's not perfect? It was still lovely of Alex for trying. Just as it was lovely for Mary for trying.

Quote:

When she travels to Hong Kong she sits in first class, while her kids and there nanys fly coach. So I do not know who is more of a snob.
I don't know about this. Somehow I can't accept that Alex would do this.

But whatever, maybe Alex was affected by the idea that she's not going to be the only daughter-in-law. Who knows? But everyone knows that the Danes and all of us will continue to love her. She'll be Alex and Mary will be Mary. If don't necessarily think that there need be a scenario of one displacing the other.

Lasty, I THINK MARY IS LOVELY!!!! a but nervous, but LOVELY!

George 11-25-2003 03:17 AM

do not fret over Alexandra., as she is so busy as a wife and mother, she can
barely keep up. so she is well occupied. I do think she knows the score and
doesn't care really at this time. Her husband, children are important to her.

Jasl 11-25-2003 09:16 AM

I agree George. And apparently Alex's dad is not very well. I think this would occupy her mind more than silly non-existent squabbles between her and Mary for the most popular daughter-in-law.

Poor Alex. This is my opinion only but I really don't think she gives two hoots about the rise/decline of her popularity. I think she just wants to do what's good and be kind and caring to people.

hrhcp 11-25-2003 09:58 AM

Quote:

cille    Posted: Nov 23rd, 2003 - 5:57 am

She knew when she married Joakim, that she would not become queen of Denmark.

Correct

Quote:

I love having Mary join the Danish Rayal Family, and from the look of it, the queen loves it too.
Probably because its a woman thing with fashion and art, and Mary is 'open' to change ????

sara1981 11-25-2003 12:14 PM

let give her break!

but Alexandra would love to have another baby! but she never have girl but she had 2 boys! she would get pregnant right now!

Sara Boyce

Jacqueline 11-26-2003 11:05 AM

I think that many people are taking it into consideration that Alex may feel left out or a bit out of place now that Fred and Mary are engaged. However, how do we know that she feels this way?

Alex seems to be an exceptionally intelligent and sophisticatd woman. She has created her own role within the family and I doubt that Mary can take that away from her. She has her own interests and obligations, not to mention a lovely family. I seriously doubt that she is concerned about being Queen. The fact is that being queen would only lead to having more responsibilities and of course at times more problems. Alex is a very smart woman and any intelligent person would not pity themselves or feel bad, because she truly gets as much of the best of both worlds with a little less headache.

I don't feel sorry for her at all,and I doubt that she feels sorry for herself. She has already established herself in Denmark as both a private and public person. Alex has very few if any hurdles left whereas Mary has much to learn and many adjustments to make.

Alex only needs to do as she has been doing all of these years and enjoy her life. There is nothing about her that is worth pitying in my opinion.

Alexandria 11-26-2003 01:53 PM

Very well said, Jacqueline.

To add something, I hardly think, too that Alexandra will disappear off the royal scene now with Mary. Yes, Mary will probably take on more royal duties in the coming months and may even perform more than Alexandra in the future, but organizations Alexandra has worked closely with over the past years would hardly "dump" her in favour of Mary. And obviously, Alexandra knew that one day Frederik would find a wife who would be the Crown Princess and eventually Queen, so this wasn't such a bombshell to her.

And with the Danish royal family being so small, Alexandra's presence and help is much needed, now and always. Yes, her role will probably change and shift now with Mary's presence, but it will not be eradiated or obsolete. (And frankly, if it were, I think Alexandra is smart enough to still land on her own feet, in a capacity of her own choice and at which she would still succeed!)

Starr 11-26-2003 02:31 PM

I don't think anyone should feel sorry for Alexandra. She is the one who will be able to spend more time with her children than Mary will, get to pick and choose the charities she is involved with. If something happens to HM in the next few years it will be Mary we feel sorry for.

Times2222 12-04-2003 12:39 PM

QUOTE
When she travels to Hong Kong she sits in first class, while her kids and there nanys fly coach. So I do not know who is more of a snob.


This is not true. The nanny flies business class. The Royal House does not allow royal staff to fly first class. Her son spent some time in business class with the nanny. That does not make Alex a snob.

Times2222 12-04-2003 12:43 PM

Quote: And if you think Mary is snobbish, I think you should take into account that Alexandra "loves" Denmark so much, that she spends one quarter of the year in Hong Kong, because she cannot get use to the cold weather in Denmark. This is eventhough her parents live with her in Denmark.

Reply: Alex does not spent 1/4 of the year in Hong Kong. She visits once a year, the longest for less than 2 months, the shortest for 2 weeks. She goes with her entire family to visit her sisters and friends. Her parents do not live full time with her in Denmark. They have lived in Hong Kong for more than 40 years.

Alex visiting Hong Kong does not make her unloyal to Denmark, just that she visits friends and family in a place that she lived for 30 years.

Times2222 12-04-2003 12:49 PM

Do not feel sorry for Alexandra. She had a successful career and life in Hong Kong before she married Joachim. She made her first 7 years in Denmark a success. She will continue to live a happy and fulfilled life, because she is intelligent and will find many outlets for herself. Even if she has a diminished role in the royal family after Mary becomes crown princess.

Mary on the other hand has not kept a job for more than a year in her entire 10 year "career." She served stints as an English teacher along with doing some marketing for a real estate agency. She is not accomplished in her life before becoming fred's fiance. Let's hope she does not give up again on her new job of being princess after 1 year. Let's hope she is not marrying fred to get a career

Jasl 12-16-2003 07:15 AM

Quote:

Mary on the other hand has not kept a job for more than a year in her entire 10 year "career."
Sorry, but where did you get this? Her resume shows that she gained a graduate position with DDB Needham and that she was promoted to Account Manager. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first year of a graduate position usually entails rotations and learning the jobs. It is only if the next year when you progress, that is if you hav impressed your employers. She clearly impressed because she was promoted. It is also highly likely that she stayed for more than a year there. I also think she was at Belle for more than a year too.

Quote:

Originally posted by Times2222@Dec 4th, 2003 - 12:49 pm
She served stints as an English teacher along with doing some marketing for a real estate agency.  She is not accomplished in her life before becoming fred's fiance.  Let's hope she does not give up again on her new job of being princess after 1 year.  Let's hope she is not marrying fred to get a career
There's a lot of things we don't know about her career. For my part, my understanding of it is that she clearly stayed for some time with DDB Needham, but at one point, she changed often. I think her travelling overseas, getting the Scottish 3 months contract etc happened after her mum passed away. Or has everyone so conveniently forgotten this?? Her mum passed away, and she's supposed to go through life as if nothing happened? This is just a bleep to us, another small fact about Mary. But I doubt that it was just a small fact to her.

To say that she was not "accomplished" is also way off the mark. She was in distinguished positions before she met Fred. She was a manager in major firms, or a director etc. I don't think anyone should be so ready to belittle another person's life, especially as we don't know what that person had gone through.

O yeah and the real estate agency Mary worked for is a high profile agency that handles multi million dollar sales, not merely some small suburban real estate agency.

Times2222 12-22-2003 01:32 PM

Jasl

I still stand by my personal opinion that 8 jobs in approx a decade is a lot of job hopping. As a senior executive, a CV with some many jobs would raise red flags (restlessness, job changes due to poor performance, lack of progression) for me.

I am posting the job section of her CV here for everyone to judge for themselves. Please note that she had some help getting that job at Navison in Denmark and was living off of Fred (according to other postings on this site).

DDB Needham – Melbourne, Australia
After completion of University moved to Melbourne to take a graduate position with the worldwide advertising agency Promoted to Account Executive within client management.

MOJO Partners – Melbourne, Australia
Role: Account Manager

Travelled across Europe and America.

Rapp Collins Worldwide – Edinburgh, Scotland
Role: Account Manager (3 month contract)

Young and Rubicam – Sydney, Australia
Role: Account Director

Love Branding – Sydney, Australia
Role: Brand Team Leader – responsible for managing the seamless teamwork of four communication disciplines: Brand Strategy, Public Relations, Online, and Advertising.

Belle Property (specialist in premium development and residential properties – Sydney, Australia
Role: Sales Director and member of Management Team.

Transfer (Business English School) – Paris, France
Role: English teacher (primary focus on business English).

Microsoft Business Solutions - Denmark
Role: Project Consultant – business development, communications and marketing.

CD. 12-22-2003 01:40 PM

I'm curious about one thing, did Mary's CV actually state dates when she started work and when she left her jobs? Or was it just a job listing.

Times2222 12-22-2003 11:47 PM

The CV does not post any dates, just the jobs, but Needham DB would be her first job after graduation

lynnredbug 12-23-2003 02:36 PM

Totally agree with you Times2222 on Mary's CV. When I saw it on the Danish Royal Family website, my first thought was "where's the date?" It didn't say how long she stayed with each company. However, it did raise a red flag when seeing a long list of companies like that knowing she had been in the job market for less than 10 years. However, the Crown Prince himself seems to live that kind of life also. Not that he hopped jobs 'coz he's the C.P. but he didn't seem to take his role as seriously as he should have.

As for Princess Alexandra can't get used to the cold in Denmark. Here's my thought. I'm originally from Thailand (5 degree above the Equator). Although I've moved to the U.S. since I was 16, I just can't get used to the winter here. Even a Texas winter (hardly ever snow) is harsh for me sometimes. My husband grew up in Chicago. He could walk outside with just a T-shirt on. I had to bundle up 3-4 layers when it's 40 outside.

To stay on the topic, I am disappointed to see Mary taking the C.P. role. It really has nothing to do with Mary. I just hate the idea of Princess Alexandra not being the only girl standing there between the two brothers. It doesn't even matter who the other woman is. But that's my personal opinion. Princess Alexandra probably doesn't feel a thing.

lori 12-23-2003 03:05 PM

They did seem to be a couple of "movers." :lol: But do they have enough weight to shake? I seriously doubt that.

Dennism 12-23-2003 03:10 PM

"Even a Texas winter (hardly ever snow) is harsh for me sometimes. "

The summers are better temperature wise but too dry, right?

lynnredbug 12-23-2003 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dennism@Dec 23rd, 2003 - 3:10 pm
The summers are better temperature wise but too dry, right?
Texas is a big state. Certains parts are dry. We live close to the Gulf (of Mexico) so it's actually humid by a Midwesterner's standard. Comparing to Bangkok, the humidity here is nothing. Neither is the summer heat.

When I ponder a bit more on why Princess Alexandra likes to visit Hong Kong every year, I think she just simply misses Hong Kong. It has nothing to do with being disloyal to Denmark. I left Thailand at 16, half the Princess's age when she left Hong Kong. Although I now call Houston home, there are certain things you can only get at home, e.g. visitting old friends. But that is probably a politically-incorrect thing for a Danish Princess to say. It's a lot easier to just say "I can't get used to the winter here." Anybody can relate to that.

Jasl 12-23-2003 05:53 PM

Quote:

Mary on the other hand has not kept a job for more than a year in her entire 10 year "career." She served stints as an English teacher along with doing some marketing for a real estate agency. She is not accomplished in her life before becoming fred's fiance.
Just a small note about Mary's CV:

I must reiterate that my point was not that she changed jobs - this is obvious, and I have no quarrel with this at all. What I was against was the point that "she is not accomplished in her life" and "she has not kept a job for more than a year". For my part, I believe these comments to be misplaced and harsh. I think if Alex had one of Mary's jobs in her CV (for example, Account Director/Manager with DDB Needham) it would be praised to high heaven. Mary DID change jobs but one can see from her CV and the jobs she had that SHE IS AN ACCOMPLISHED YOUNG WOMAN (she had competitive jobs in competitive firms).

And furthermore, I do believe that she has been in some jobs for more than a year. If we take away the the 3 mths contract at Scotland, the English teacher job in Paris and the MS in Denmark, we are left with 5 jobs only. Furthermore, attacking her teaching job and real estate agency job is uncalled for. Theya re good jobs, and with regards to the teaching job, was unlikely to be undertaken as a start in a new career, but an in-between job. We should also remember that Belle Property is not some small estate agents and she did not sell houses - she was an Accounting Director.

For my part, I would be proud to have Mary's CV.

To focus on Mary's job changes is cool, but to use this as an excuse for not acknowledging her achievements is unjust.

But back to Alex, if the reports that her dad is unwell are true, then I feel for her. It must be hard - Mary lost her mum too so she would know what its like to have a parent ill.

CD. 12-23-2003 08:03 PM

What is an Accounting Director? What was she actually doing?

Poppy 12-27-2003 02:53 AM

After reading the comments, my personal conclusion is that, I still DON'T like Mary.

CD. 12-27-2003 05:24 AM

That's fair enough. IMO,I find her boring. Letizia, whilst I'm not a fan of hers either, at will prove to be an interesting one to watch. I think Mette is lovely as is Maxima. Mathilde is not that interesting either but at least she is the least controversial. Princess Alexandra is one of my favorites.....She a dream doll.

kelly9480 12-27-2003 12:21 PM

I agree that Mary is boring. She's in her 30s and never accomplished anything career-wise. There's no personality there. I just dislike her, and I probably always will. There are just some people that you automatically dislike, and can't put why you feel that way into words.

I respect that Letizia had a successful career and had ambitions, and I think it will interesting to see how she adapts.

Mathilde is boring beyond belief; she's well-mannered and poised, but you just don't see any personality there.

Maxima is interesting because she's just so vivacious and lively.

I like Martha Louise more than I like Mette-Marit. I think I like ML's personality, though she does seem to play the Royal-card too often, even though she's said she wants a normal life now.

I think the Countess of Wessex isn't all that interesting. And she's married to the most unpopular of the Queen's kids, so that rubs off on her popularity. She's never going to live down some of the things she's said and done, and the Queen's courtiers have said less-than-kind things about her in the papers (anonymously, of course), which doesn't help her situation.

I respect that Alexandra had an established career, and had goals in her life. And she's made a wonderful transition to royal life.

CD. 12-27-2003 06:10 PM

Well said

lori 12-28-2003 06:34 PM

Some just don't have flair or personalities no matter the heritage, and so that makes them very boring. Mathilde is one, and I am afraid, Mary is one also. They maybe nice, but nice is usually a description suited for uninteresting people. I do like alex. I think she is inteseting because she is kind of people person. Do you see from many pictures when she is paying attention to people, she leans forward. I deem that humble gesture, closing the gap, opposite of distancing from people, imho.

lori 12-28-2003 06:47 PM

Quote:

O yeah and the real estate agency Mary worked for is a high profile agency that handles multi million dollar sales, not merely some small suburban real estate agency.

Unless you know the inside story, it is hard to judge how they perform in those companes. You could say she worked for big company in important position with important clients. But then you could also say if she did not meet the expectation of say dollar amount, she walked. So, in a big company is not a judge of performance. But in a real world, people do judge tenure since they could not get inside scoop, how long you stay become one of the criteria to an employer. And I must say it is not the only criteria, unfortunately if she did it frequently, it did look bad on a resume.

Jasl 12-28-2003 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lori@Dec 28th, 2003 - 6:47 pm
Quote:

O yeah and the real estate agency Mary worked for is a high profile agency that handles multi million dollar sales, not merely some small suburban real estate agency.

Unless you know the inside story, it is hard to judge how they perform in those companes. You could say she worked for big company in important position with important clients. But then you could also say if she did not meet the expectation of say dollar amount, she walked. So, in a big company is not a judge of performance. But in a real world, people do judge tenure since they could not get inside scoop, how long you stay become one of the criteria to an employer. So jsut as we can say "short people are not good high jumpers", but if a particular short person is a good high jumper and beats many other tall people, then by golly gosh the belief that short people are not good high jumpers is not relevant to that particular short high jumper. In the same way we can continue to say "job hoppers are not attractive to employers". But if employers continue to employ Mary, then that criticism can't apply to her.

Hello... what's this? Are people actually catching on to what they've been doing??

It is said that I don't know "the inside scoop" and perhaps rightly so. But the thing is that unless those who attack Mary also personally know how Mary performed, then they too don't have the inside scoop. If my posts are therefore rejected because I don't know the inside scoop, then people who post negatively also should not do so because they too don't have all the details. See!!! we don't really know anything!!!

But hey! if we are to make assumptions, I think it's easier to say that she did accomplish big things (but again, this is just my opinion). Everyone who has been through or applied for graduate positions in multi-national companies know the processes is horrific. Everyone knows that DDB Neeham/ Young & Rubicam are competitive firms. Yet people feel justified in saying that "Mary is not accomplished?????"...... whatever.

With regards to tenure, does anyone know how long she stayed at those firms?? Isn't the whole problem the fact that we don't know how long she worked for each firm?? I think she was with DDB Needham for some time (because she got 2 certificates whilst she was with them, she finished her graduate rotation and progressed). I think the Scottish/French/MS jobs should also be extracted because these weren't jobs that we can expect her to stick to (backpacker job and "waiting to be engaged" job). But really we don't know. But I think just as you're able to use "tenure" to indicate something "suss", I think the fact that she continued to be employed by competitive firms indicates strongly that she is still highly employable and sought after. I meant his would bring the whole "no-one looks kindly on job-hoppers" criticism down. So we can continue saying it and saying it, but the fact remains that COMPETITIVE FIRMS CONTINUED TO EMPLOY MARY. So just as we can say "short people are not good high jumpers", but if a particular short person is a good high jumper and beats many other tall people, then by golly gosh the belief that short people are not good high jumpers is not relevant to that particular short high jumper. In the same way we can continue to say "job hoppers are not attractive to employers". But if employers continue to employ Mary, then that criticism can't apply to her.

CD. 12-28-2003 09:04 PM

Do we know if her positions were permanent or temporary positions? She might not have been able to secure a permanent position and she just did temp work....

Jasl 12-30-2003 03:01 AM

Or she might have been permanent for all jobs except the Scottish/teaching/MS jobs. Who knows????? Maybe we should ask her when she comes to Australia ;)

But as people trained in the adversarial systems would know, saying that "she might not have been able to secure a permanent position and she just did temp work" is leading and if it was part of a question in examination in chief, it would be rejected or its weight would be diminished because it's suggesting an answer when there is nothing to suggest that it is indeed so. (sorry, I just didn't think there was a need for it since the question "Do we know if her positions were permanent or temporary positions was already adequate... but that's only my opinion).

Josefine 12-30-2003 03:08 AM

for how long did alexandra work at her compony?
and what does her CP look like?

lori 12-30-2003 03:37 PM

Quote:

but the fact remains that COMPETITIVE FIRMS CONTINUED TO EMPLOY MARY.
For how long? that is the question. She quit or they don't use her any more, that is the question. I agree we don't know at all, because no dates were given, why dodge dates, when every cv writer knows dates are important? but the fact remains she hopped around. You want to say she is accomplished, now, that is the question I would raise. Accomplished on what? Worked for big company with good position? OK, let's say she was good entering the big company, then why did she not stay if it was so competitive. If you say, well, there were other reasons, yeah, then, what about the other jobs? If you say, well, there were other reasons we can't forsee. then, that's one too many reasons. I agree she is young, changing jobs are normal, but to say she is accomplished, that is just so "Denish press"ish silly.

CD. 12-30-2003 06:52 PM

Jasl, this is not a court of law-its a discussion board on Royalty. Therefore statements can be made that can lead to further analysis. The ..... at the end of my statement is leading on for further discussion with other members as suggested. (Which you responded to accordingly). Points of law ought to be addressed on other forums. :P

People who work and have a job history themselves, know that employers do look at the length of employ when assessing a candidate for a future position. Someone who has short term tenure would be questioned. To say "COMPETITIVE FIRMS CONTINUED TO EMPLOY MARY" doesn't answer much. If, for instance, Mary highlighted the fact that some of her previous positions were casual/temp jobs then her "job hopping" as some say is explainable and perfectly reasonable in my eyes.(that is why I brought it up.) A temp tries on many jobs until settling down in a position they are satisfied with. But if Mary was employed by these "competitve firms" and only stayed for a short term it would indicate to me, IMHO, that she has difficulties either coping with the work or just not being generally satisfied with the jobs she took on. As an employer, I would qustion this because if I'm employing someone there is usually an agents fee of a few thousand dollars and I would not want to part with my money on someone who is going to stay for a year or less. This is why I lead a discussion questioning what type of employment she had(ie part time etc)

Remember Mary did not provided any dates on her CV which rings bells IMHO. The fact that she had to also display her fathers CV says alot about what she thinks(IMO) of herself and her job history/past. Are there any other C.Princess that officially displayed their parents CV and job history? If I were applying for a position I would not be showing my dad's CV. Simple as that. I don' think anyone else would either.

wymanda 12-30-2003 07:20 PM

Who cares what Mary's situation was prior to her engagement!!

The fact of the matter is that Alexandra is the wife of the second son. It is unfortunate that Joachim married first and that his wife has taken on the role properly occupied by the Crown Princess. Now that Frederick is marrying Alexandra should take a step or two back and relinquish the roles that will properly belong to Mary.

CD. 12-30-2003 07:36 PM

Actually P. Alexandra has a main role to play whether Mary's there or not. She is the mother of two wonderful children, the Danish people adore her and the reality is her children are in line to the throne, until Mary herself has children with Frederick. If Mary and Fred don't have any children, P. Alex children will be next in line after Frederick. That is why she and her kids are important.

beebee 12-30-2003 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wymanda@Dec 30th, 2003 - 7:20 pm
Who cares what Mary's situation was prior to her engagement!!

The fact of the matter is that Alexandra is the wife of the second son. It is unfortunate that Joachim married first and that his wife has taken on the role properly occupied by the Crown Princess. Now that Frederick is marrying Alexandra should take a step or two back and relinquish the roles that will properly belong to Mary.

I completely disagree. It is not "unfortunate" that Joachim married before Frederik. Joachim happened to find the woman he wanted to marry before Frederik did. It is utter nonsense to insinuate that the second-born should remain single until his older brother finds a wife.

Neither is your assessment of Alexandra as usurper to the throne in any way accurate. For the past eight years, she has played her role as princess - her true role, regardless of your sentiments - with the utmost grace and dignity. To the Danes who have come to love her, she is not someone who has ever stolen the roles "that properly belong to Mary," and I'm sure no one expects her to "relinquish" her duties and fade into oblivion at Schackenborg. Denmark has opened its arms to both Mary and Alexandra, and Denmark will surely have room for two very lovely princesses.

Sean.~ 12-30-2003 09:12 PM

Well said, Beebee.

Sean.~

wymanda 12-30-2003 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beebee+Dec 30th, 2003 - 8:04 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (beebee @ Dec 30th, 2003 - 8:04 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-wymanda@Dec 30th, 2003 - 7:20 pm
Who cares what Mary&#39;s situation was prior to her engagement&#33;&#33;

The fact of the matter is that Alexandra is the wife of the second son. It is unfortunate that Joachim married first and that his wife has taken on the role properly occupied by the Crown Princess. Now that Frederick is marrying Alexandra should take a step or two back and relinquish the roles that will properly belong to Mary.

I completely disagree. It is not "unfortunate" that Joachim married before Frederik. Joachim happened to find the woman he wanted to marry before Frederik did. It is utter nonsense to insinuate that the second-born should remain single until his older brother finds a wife.

Neither is your assessment of Alexandra as usurper to the throne in any way accurate. For the past eight years, she has played her role as princess - her true role, regardless of your sentiments - with the utmost grace and dignity. To the Danes who have come to love her, she is not someone who has ever stolen the roles "that properly belong to Mary," and I&#39;m sure no one expects her to "relinquish" her duties and fade into oblivion at Schackenborg. Denmark has opened its arms to both Mary and Alexandra, and Denmark will surely have room for two very lovely princesses. [/b][/quote]
In no way did I mean to imply that Prince Joachim should have waited for his brother to find a wife. Circumstances saw him fall in love and marry while his brother was still looking.

Alexandra found herself the only princess of her generation in the family and, as such, second lady in the land. Now that Frederick & Mary are to marry she will automatically fall back one place and some of the duties she has undertaken will fall to Mary as Crown Princess.

The thing I see happening is a Princess Diana scenario where Alexandra can do no wrong and Mary is continually compared to her.

To quote a popular saying here in Australia

Come on Aussie, Come On (Go Mary)

:rolleyes: B) ;) :blush: :flower: :innocent:

kelly9480 12-30-2003 10:48 PM

Alexandra shouldn&#39;t have to step back. Alexandra should continue doing what she has done. If Mary can&#39;t live up to that, then that&#39;s her problem and her failure. You don&#39;t lower the bar because one of them can&#39;t handle the expectations. You keep expecting her to rise to the challenge.

Alexandra&#39;s roles with her charities should not change. These charities have a history with her, and she has worked for them. She shouldn&#39;t relinquish these roles simply because the court can&#39;t find something for Mary to do.

CD. 12-30-2003 10:55 PM

Personally I think Alexandra has taken to her role like a duck to water. I don&#39;t know how Mary will perfom with Charities-I&#39;ll take a wait and see approach.


Oh by the way, I&#39;m Australian and because of this it doesn&#39;t mean I have to automatically like Mary&#33;

beebee 12-31-2003 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wymanda@Dec 30th, 2003 - 9:23 pm
The thing I see happening is a Princess Diana scenario where Alexandra can do no wrong and Mary is continually compared to her.

If that sort of thing does happen to Mary, I agree, it will be quite an unfortunate situation. But outside of this board, I don&#39;t actually think that it is the case that people already believe that Mary cannot possibly measure up to the high standards already set by Alexandra. The Danes seem fascinated by the future CP of Denmark, and it is difficult to imagine that they would cease to treat Mary with the respect they have already accorded Alexandra.

I don&#39;t have any Go Mary&#33; sentiments just yet. I wish she&#39;d give more interviews and such. I have a hard time imagining what she is really like.

Lady Jean 12-31-2003 02:03 PM

I assume that certain charity patronages, etc. have been "saved" (left vacant) for Frederik&#39;s future wife. Even before he had a suitable girlfriend, I imagine the court assumed he would marry someday and his wife would carry out public appearances and receive honorary appointments.

I think it will be great for Denmark to now have two shining princesses.

Alexandria 12-31-2003 02:11 PM

Interesting, Lady Jean. I hadn&#39;t thought about charities being &#39;saved&#39; for whomever Frederik&#39;s future wife would be. But I suppose that is very likely.

And no doubt Mary will seek out patronages of her own, causes that interest her or she is passionate about.

Times2222 12-31-2003 07:42 PM

I [QUOTE]Interesting, Lady Jean. I hadn&#39;t thought about charities being &#39;saved&#39; for whomever Frederik&#39;s future wife would be. But I suppose that is very likely.

And no doubt Mary will seek out patronages of her own, causes that interest her or she is passionate about.




Reply: I agreee with Lady Alexandria. In addition to the roles "saved" for Frederik&#39;s wife (if they do exist), the queen may invite Mary to join some of the charities that she herself patronizes today.

Alexandria 01-01-2004 11:48 AM

And might Mary "pick up" charities or patronages that Queen Ingrid represented that have not been filled since her passing or when she cut back her schedule? I think that when Queen Ingrid passed away Queen Margrethe, Princess Alexandra and the rest of the family might&#39;ve picked up some of charities Queen Ingrid represented and added it to their schedules, but I can&#39;t imagine that they would&#39;ve picked up all of them.

wymanda 01-01-2004 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexandria@Jan 1st, 2004 - 11:48 am
And might Mary "pick up" charities or patronages that Queen Ingrid represented that have not been filled since her passing or when she cut back her schedule? I think that when Queen Ingrid passed away Queen Margrethe, Princess Alexandra and the rest of the family might&#39;ve picked up some of charities Queen Ingrid represented and added it to their schedules, but I can&#39;t imagine that they would&#39;ve picked up all of them.
A very good point. I would think that the Queen has a very full schedule and would be only too happy to hand on some of the causes she inherited from her mother to her daughter-in-law.

Fireweaver 01-01-2004 06:23 PM

That would be an excellent way to get Mary started (put her with a charity that&#39;s already successful and has had royal sponsorship in the past) and then when she&#39;s comfortable in her role, expand her charities with ones of her choosing that don&#39;t already have a royal attached.

Mee 01-04-2004 05:34 PM

Does anyone consider the fact that HRH Princess Alexandra might actually be interested in having the focus lifted from her and her immidiate family?

So rahter than feeling sorry for HRH Princess Alexandra, I believe we should be happy for her that she now has a fellow daughter-in-law that will share the extensive media attention with her - and relieve her of some of her work load&#33;

Lady Jean 01-05-2004 12:00 PM

Excellent point, Mee&#33;

andiemac 01-05-2004 12:37 PM

And Alexandra will get more time to spend with her two kids &#33;&#33; :flower:

Jacqueline 01-06-2004 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mee@Jan 4th, 2004 - 10:34 pm


So rahter than feeling sorry for HRH Princess Alexandra, I believe we should be happy for her that she now has a fellow daughter-in-law that will share the extensive media attention with her - and relieve her of some of her work load&#33;


Absolutely Mee. Alexandra is far too intelligent to not realize that she will have much more time for herself and her family. I think that&#39;s wonderful.

Also, who knows&#33; Alexandra and Mary may even have the great opportunity to become good friends as the years go by, especially since the immediate Royal Family is so small. I think it is a great opportunity for Alex to make a new friend. Alex is so outgoing and friendly, I don&#39;t think this would be so outrageous for this to happen.

Jasl 01-08-2004 11:58 PM

I don&#39;t think Alex should have to diminish her role just because Mary is there. There are far too many people needing help for this to happen anyway. What does bother me are the "I wish P. Alexandra is the CP/Queen/President of Denmark (alright no pres.). It was never going to happen and to say that Fred should have fallen for Alex instead is so slack on Joachim.

Anyway, there you go. I hope some of Mary&#39;s less serious patronages will include sporting associations. She was good at basketball/ hockey so maybe she could do something with them. Apparently, P. Alex was good at hockey too, but I&#39;ve never seen pictures of Alex doing sporty stuff now (probably because of the kids/ her work) so I don&#39;t see Alex as "the sporty kind of princess".

asdfasdf 01-09-2004 04:19 AM

I like Mary&#33; I think she is just really nervous right now and with good reason - the fact is she has a biiig job ahead of her and anyone can see that, it&#39;s bigger then Alex&#39;s job so I would be scared too PLUS she is getting compared with someone else constantly. I think the way some people in the thread talked about Alex is this - that she would be jealous of the attention not being on her - and it seems to make some of you annoyed and dislike Mary for it. If Alex is as nice as I have heard that she is, I&#39;m sure that she will be happy to have someone new to go through this with and would help out and wouldn&#39;t be so damned &#39;Me Me Me&#33;&#33;&#33;&#39; as some of you give me the impression that she is like.

I think if Mary comes across as boring or whatever, that it&#39;s because she hasn&#39;t adjusted to the public life in the way that Alex has... everyone would react differently in that situation and I think it&#39;s unfair to call Mary boring or to dislike her because of this fact - she just hasn&#39;t found her feet well enough yet in the situation which is not the same as anyone here will ever really be able to comprehend&#33; Mary must be always concious of being judged so harshly and not being given a chance which after coming on the internet, I can see why she would be&#33; lol not many people seem willing to give her a chance - I think she wants people to like her but doesn&#39;t know what to say or do. She is scared as this is all new for her. Alex obviously must have just adjusted better then Mary. But this doesn&#39;t make Mary boring or bad. And I highly doubt that Mary is a gold digger. What makes Mary that and not Alex? Can anyone prove it? I didn&#39;t think so. Give her a chance people. she can&#39;t be that bad if the Danish Queen thinks she is good enough for the job and the CP loves her the most&#33;

Anyways, I wish Mary the best of luck&#33;

sunlesstanning 01-09-2004 02:22 PM

I&#39;ve heard that Princess Alexandra will be going to washington dc to have lunch with Laura Bush and also I think a conference in NYC. Pricess Alexandra is perfect for this kind of job. She&#39;s intelligent, charismatic, and beautiful ( she has such a beautiful face structure). Therefore I dont think anyone should feel sorry for her.

Times2222 01-13-2004 05:02 PM

Having read through and even participated in some of the discussions about Alex&#39;s role after Mary becomes crown princess, I have finally come to the conclusion that Alex should not be compared to Mary and vice versa.

Each should have their own identity and given a chance to grow into the roles and persona that they are comfortable with.

I have been a long-time fan of Princess Alexandra and have in the past been frank about my concerns about Mary.

Still I think Mary should be made welcome and greeted with patience and understanding from Danish citizens and others.

Jacqueline 01-14-2004 12:25 PM

I agree that the two women can hardly be compared, but only contrasted. They really are two very different individuals when taking into account their personal backgrounds, interests, demeanors, etc.

But, I still see no reason to feel sorry for Alex. Because as it has been stated by so many, Alex has already adjusted to public life, whereas Mary has not. Her standing within the Royal Family and the Danish community has already been established. She has made a solid reputation and life for herself and Mary&#39;s addition to the family can hardly undo that, IMO.

Times2222 01-22-2004 05:49 PM

I am adding this posting from another site, called Royal Blue. The conversation threads is about why Mary&#39;s father&#39;s CV is included in her&#39;s CV. Is it to boost her resume which includes 8 or 9 jobs in as number of years?

On the contrary Alexandra&#39;s father and mother&#39;s CV were not added to her to bolster her credentials.

Quote from anothers site:
"Alexandra&#39;s father was well-respected Director of insurance company in Hong Kong. Her mom was a manager of German company in Hong Kong. Her Austrian family is well educated too . The main point is that Alex had very impressive cv. She studied in London, Vienna and Tokyo. She has been working in three companies only. In GT Management (her last company) she worked form 1990 to 1995 and since 1993 as vice director. Alexandra didn&#39;t have to add her dad&#39;s impressive cv becuase she was professional and successful . Mary&#39;s employement history looks so extremely poor compared to Alex."


Message to Jasl:
before you explode with anger about this comment, please understand that we are entitled to our opinion of Mary&#39;s career accomplishments in this forum based on what we observed. This is no absolute and there is no way you or I know 100% what is the truth.

As for you being pleased to have Mary&#39;s CV, well I don&#39;t. Having received a graduate degree from Harvard, I know what a top achiever&#39;s CV looks like and Mary&#39;s CV is not one of a top career achiever. But that does not mean she is a bum, just that she has no major distinction in her career.

Having said that, Mary seems intelligent. I at first did not like her but have come to see that She and Fred are very happy together and that she is an intelligent and happy person who is good for Fred and Denmark.

Jasl 01-22-2004 06:04 PM

As long as it&#39;s not defamatory of course you can post your opinion ;) . Of course it doesn&#39;t mean that others can&#39;t post an opposing view and attack the basis of another posts arguments.

Lol.... I like the "explode with anger". It&#39;s funny, because I could also say "now you&#39;re just being defensive". But I also know you&#39;re really just posting your views and are not being "defensive" as such. Although the admins at royal blue are very good now, you have to admit that there was a LOT of defamatory being posted before... hence the strong words.

I do however have problems with defamatory statements - the law doesn&#39;t tolerate it and neither does society. As such I don&#39;t think it has a place even in the internet, that&#39;s why I seem to sound like i&#39;m "exploding".

Times2222 01-22-2004 06:16 PM

.

anna 01-22-2004 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Times2222@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 11:49 pm
On the contrary Alexandra&#39;s father and mother&#39;s CV were not added to her to bolster her credentials.
So you know that for a fact ?

Nine years ago - when Alexandra became engaged to Prince Joachim - the danish royal house did not have a website - info on the bios of Alexandra&#39;s father and mother were distributed to the media &#33;

Years into her royal life the website was launched - her family background was common knowledge - not included in the very short cv they put online for her.

Mary&#39;s cv on Crown Prince Frederik&#39;s website will be altered 14.may ;)

Her Royal Highness&#39; cv will be shorter - Mr. Donaldson&#39;s cv will not be there - I guess.

Times2222 01-22-2004 06:23 PM

Anna, No, I did not know that. Thanks for the clarification. Don&#39;t know if the media also received information/press releases about mary&#39;s father&#39;s background, as they did with Alex&#39;s family.

As for Mary&#39;s CV on Fred&#39;s website, a CV should cover only her accomplishments not her father&#39;s also. Still not appropriate.

anna 01-22-2004 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Times2222@Jan 23rd, 2004 - 12:23 am
Don&#39;t know if the media also received information/press releases about Mary&#39;s father&#39;s background, as they did with Alex&#39;s family.

As for Mary&#39;s CV on Fred&#39;s website, a CV should cover only her accomplishments not her father&#39;s also.* Still not appropriate.

Didn&#39;t get the point, did you ?

Nowadays the info goes out from the court online - not just to the media like in the old days - back then the media could choose whatever they wanted to write about.

The info the royal court provided about Mary&#39;s family is in her cv on CPF&#39;s site - nothing more from the court than that.

As I wrote above - I guess Mr.Donaldson&#39;s cv not will be a part of HRH Crown Princess Mary&#39;s cv.

Alexandria 01-22-2004 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anna@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:47 pm
Nowadays the info goes out from the court online - not just to the media like in the old days - back then the media could choose whatever they wanted to write about.
Back when Joachim and Alexandra were first engaged, and information about Alexandra&#39;s family was being distributed to the press only, couldn&#39;t "regular" citizens "apply" to see the information if they so wanted, even if there was a small fee involved.

I am not sure how it works in Denmark, but for instance, in Canada, we have a Freedom to Information Act in which "regular" citizens can go to a particular government office and apply to see public documents of individuals, even private individuals, not just public figures like politicians. For example, you can apply to see someone&#39;s marriage licence (if it is not sealed) or birth records and the like. Does Denmark have a similar law?

Or was the case different in Alexandra&#39;s case (and now Mary&#39;s) because their parents are not Danish citizens and any such information for the interest of Danish citizens would have to come directly from the Royal Court? (Alternately, I guess you could go to the home countries of Alexandra and Mary&#39;s parents and apply for such documents.)

Times2222 01-22-2004 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anna+Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:47 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (anna @ Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:47 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Times2222@Jan 23rd, 2004 - 12:23 am
Don&#39;t know if the media also received information/press releases about Mary&#39;s father&#39;s background, as they did with Alex&#39;s family.

As for Mary&#39;s CV on Fred&#39;s website, a CV should cover only her accomplishments not her father&#39;s also.* Still not appropriate.

Didn&#39;t get the point, did you ?

Nowadays the info goes out from the court online - not just to the media like in the old days - back then the media could choose whatever they wanted to write about.

The info the royal court provided about Mary&#39;s family is in her cv on CPF&#39;s site - nothing more from the court than that.

As I wrote above - I guess Mr.Donaldson&#39;s cv not will be a part of HRH Crown Princess Mary&#39;s cv. [/b][/quote]
The point I was making was that the royal court found it necessary to add her father&#39;s Credentials to Mary&#39;s Professional CV to boost her up.

It did not seem to me in 1995 that the court or anyone else try to boost Alex via strong emphasis on Alex&#39;s parents professional accomplishments.

As far the fact that Alex&#39;s parents were widely distributed to the media in 1995, so are Mary&#39;s. Which article in the media do we not see Mary mentioned as the daugther of a "Oxford Professor" or math professor from Tasmania.


It&#39;s the issue of emphasis.

Jacqueline 01-23-2004 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Times2222+Jan 23rd, 2004 - 12:31 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Times2222 &#064; Jan 23rd, 2004 - 12:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:

Originally posted by anna@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:47 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-Times2222
Quote:

@Jan 23rd, 2004 - 12:23 am
Don&#39;t know if the media also received information/press releases about Mary&#39;s father&#39;s background, as they did with Alex&#39;s family.

As for Mary&#39;s CV on Fred&#39;s website, a CV should cover only her accomplishments not her father&#39;s also.* Still not appropriate.


Didn&#39;t get the point, did you ?

Nowadays the info goes out from the court online - not just to the media like in the old days - back then the media could choose whatever they wanted to write about.

The info the royal court provided about Mary&#39;s family is in her cv on CPF&#39;s site - nothing more from the court than that.

As I wrote above - I guess Mr.Donaldson&#39;s cv not will be a part of HRH Crown Princess Mary&#39;s cv.

The point I was making was that the royal court found it necessary to add her father&#39;s Credentials to Mary&#39;s Professional CV to boost her up.

It did not seem to me in 1995 that the court or anyone else try to boost Alex via strong emphasis on Alex&#39;s parents professional accomplishments.

As far the fact that Alex&#39;s parents were widely distributed to the media in 1995, so are Mary&#39;s. Which article in the media do we not see Mary mentioned as the daugther of a "Oxford Professor" or math professor from Tasmania.


It&#39;s the issue of emphasis.[/b][/quote]
I am not sure why the court found it necessary to do that. It could be as has been stated on other forums that it was done to try and bolster Mary&#39;s credentials or even that of her father. :unsure:

It could also have been done to give individuals more background on Mary&#39;s family. However, in that case I really wouldn&#39;t see any reason to actually give his resume/cv online. A chosen journalist could have written an article about it in a reputable journal. :unsure:

It is a little strange in my opinion, and I have to admit that I find it to be a bit tasteless and unecessary to start posting the employment histories of an individual&#39;s family online. Regardless of whether or not Mary&#39;s personal employment history may make things appear as though she has "jumped around" a bit. The fact is that it is her employment history and it does show that she was employed at several places. I personally feel that regardless of how anyone interprets it, it was good enough and should have stood on its own.

It really could been done for so many reasons, that the entire thing may be completely or at least fairly innocent. Who knows?

anna 01-23-2004 12:24 PM

Quote:

As far the fact that Alex&#39;s parents were widely distributed to the media in 1995
by the danish royal court to the in total 20 persons (incl photogs and tv-crew) present at Joachim&#39;s engagement press conference &#33;

On Mary or anyone in her family - the only info given by the same court - to us to as well as any media - is still available on CPF&#39;s website - until 14.may - I guess.

lasu 01-23-2004 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexandria+Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:58 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria &#064; Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:58 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-anna@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 6:47 pm
.
I am not sure how it works in Denmark, but for instance, in Canada, we have a Freedom to Information Act in which "regular" citizens can go to a particular government office and apply to see public documents of individuals, even private individuals, not just public figures like politicians. For example, you can apply to see someone&#39;s marriage licence (if it is not sealed) or birth records and the like. Does Denmark have a similar law?
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Not quite accurate. In Canada, the Privacy Act governs the release of personal information. It prohibits the release of most government-held personal data (age, marital status, health info, identification numbers, etc) without the consent of the individual concerned. There are exceptions, mostly for legal investigations or aggregate statistical data. Interestingly, it is legal, in certain circumstances, for the government to withhold personal data from the actual individual who "belongs to" that information.

As a citizen, I have no ability to request your birth certificate Alexandria. Your secrets are reasonably safe... ;)

Now, to get on topic... I thought it was a little weird that Mr. Donaldson&#39;s CV was listed with Mary&#39;s. Very patriarchal. However, I like Mary, so I am not tempted to view this addition as an attempt to camouflage some inadequacy. They released Mary&#39;s CV to provide the media with background, maybe they just did the same with her father&#39;s... I doubt they would do any differently had it been Alex marrying into the family this time around.

lasu 01-23-2004 08:32 PM

And for the record, I don&#39;t feel sorry for Alexandra. If she is the saint that so many say she is, then she will find happiness and satisfaction in her good works, loving family, and elegant (though somewhat boring at times) wardrobe. :innocent: Having another princess around won&#39;t detract from the first, especially one so admired.

Times2222 01-26-2004 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lasu@Jan 23rd, 2004 - 8:32 pm
And for the record, I don&#39;t feel sorry for Alexandra. If she is the saint that so many say she is, then she will find happiness and satisfaction in her good works, loving family, and elegant (though somewhat boring at times) wardrobe. :innocent: Having another princess around won&#39;t detract from the first, especially one so admired.
I don&#39;t think Alex is regarded as a saint. One may recall that several years ago Alex was criticized for not producing an heir.

Neither Alex and Mary should be regarded as Saints. They should develop their individual styles (as Alex has). Mary should be given a chance to do so to.

ingenue 02-08-2004 10:40 AM

well i hope for the best for the two princesses.
alexandra seems like a real lovely woman, and i can understand her missing hong kong so much since after all it IS her home.
having mary around will certainly detract attention off alex, but im sure she&#39;d welcome a momentary "quiet" time&#33;

Jasl 02-14-2004 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jacqueline@Jan 23rd, 2004 - 10:53 am

As for Mary&#39;s CV on Fred&#39;s website, a CV should cover only her accomplishments not her father&#39;s also.* Still not appropriate

It&#39;s a fact that there was media attention about Mary&#39; father being an Oxford professor even before the engagement. Danish TV was interviewing kids and Aarhus professors even BEFORE (but near) the engagement. The press were indeed very interested in what her dad did. I believe that because the CP&#39;s website is there for information, they included Mary&#39;s dad&#39; CV because they knew that the press would be interested in it (and because its good news that the future heir&#39;s dad is anOxford professor isn&#39;t it?).

Regarding Alex, she will always be well-loved. She has done so much and I doubt that Mary will be involved with the same charities as Alex already is (maybe some, but not the major ones).

agisele 02-20-2004 07:40 AM

argh. i&#39;ve never liked mary, she seems like a very cold person, and hardly expresses any emotion whatsoever whenever you see her in the pictures. i love alex though, i think she&#39;s so awesome, i really admire her style and elegance, while i&#39;m not that optimistic about how mary&#39;s going to be dressing like once she marries into the family. :angry:

bonjour_corsica 04-06-2004 08:25 AM

i think alexandra manley is a suitable person to be a queen..
coz&#39; i don&#39;t really like mary ;frankly speaking..

alexandra has the criteria...

montecarlo 04-06-2004 09:38 AM

Do you know Alexandra and Mary personally? What don&#39;t you like about Mary?

Jacqueline 04-06-2004 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonjour_corsica@Apr 6th, 2004 - 12:25 pm
i think alexandra manley is a suitable person to be a queen..
coz&#39; i don&#39;t really like mary ;frankly speaking..

alexandra has the criteria...

Mary does come off sometimes as being very aloof at least in some of her photographs. Her personality in pictures seems to have changed from the way in which they appeared when you compare it to her personality in photographs of her taken while she was still in Australia. IMO, she seemed happier and enjoying herself more in pictures pre-Denmark.

I attribute the shift in what appears to be her personality now at least publicly to having added pressures and trying very hard. Sometimes if you pay very close attention to photos of her you can see that she does appear to be very uncomfortable and working towards appearing poised. I think that her coldness is due in large part to a change in her life and added worries. To use a very old statement, Mary&#39;s plate is full at this point. She cannot appear as natural as Alexandra or as others do because she is still adjusting. Mary seems to be visibly trying whereas, although Alex may have had similar worries, she never let on to it. She really appeared to be carefree throughout and seems so in the present as well.

montecarlo 04-06-2004 11:07 AM

Some of you people are being very unfair. Mary hasn&#39;t even become the Crown Princess and you&#39;re already judging her capabilities as Queen consort? That&#39;s really pathetic&#33; Look at Queen Elizabeth II. Even though she is very sober and austere, she is considered to be one of the greatest queens of 20th century&#33;

montecarlo 04-06-2004 11:44 AM

Quote:

Alexandra&#39;s father was well-respected Director of insurance company in Hong Kong. Her mom was a manager of German company in Hong Kong. Her Austrian family is well educated too. The main point is that Alex had very impressive cv. She studied in London, Vienna, and Tokyo.
Alexandra&#39;s family were / are very wealthy compared to Mary&#39;s family. Thus, she had far more opportunities (than Mary) to be better educated and cultured.

Jacqueline 04-06-2004 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by montecarlo@Apr 6th, 2004 - 3:44 pm
Quote:

Alexandra&#39;s father was well-respected Director of insurance company in Hong Kong. Her mom was a manager of German company in Hong Kong. Her Austrian family is well educated too. The main point is that Alex had very impressive cv. She studied in London, Vienna, and Tokyo.
Alexandra&#39;s family were / are very wealthy compared to Mary&#39;s family. Thus, she had far more opportunities (than Mary) to be better educated and cultured.

Alex comes a multi-cultural family-cultural education at home. Because she has family living in various parts of the world, she was definitely able to travel more and developed interests outside of Hong Kong. Alex is also well educated and had an impressive CV because she focused on an area in particular and it appears that as time went by she made serious advancements in her career.

Mary&#39;s CV isn&#39;t unimpressive when considering the jobs that she has held and the companies at which she has been employed. She worked at very respectable and reputable companies and agencies. Her CV is diverse which means that she has worked at several jobs and that isn&#39;t a bad thing. Diversity is never a negative, IMO. The main questions that have been raised have been those about the number of jobs which she has held in a rather short amount of time.

missally 04-07-2004 01:08 AM

I agree with Monte Carlo. You can&#39;t judge who is a better princess by simply comparing CVs.

Princess Alexandra will have been a princess for 9 years this year, whilst Mary has only justed started official duties. Moreover, Mary is stepping into a Crown Princess position which is considered more than princess.

They do make it quite clear first and formost that the princess/queen consort main duties are to reproduce. If this is the case, do their CVs really matter?

I like both ladies and I think they will be as good as is required for the respective positions. Most importantly, they are loved by their husbands&#33;

montecarlo 04-07-2004 02:12 AM

Quote:

Mary&#39;s CV isn&#39;t unimpressive when considering the jobs that she has held and the companies at which she has been employed. She worked at very respectable and reputable companies and agencies. Her CV is diverse which means that she has worked at several jobs and that isn&#39;t a bad thing.
Mary could have been a late bloomer when in comes to career paths. Of course, there&#39;s nothing wrong with that. Many people have difficulty figuring out what career path to follow after college. So, they go from one job to another, until they find fulfillment.

montecarlo 04-07-2004 02:18 AM

Quote:

Princess Alexandra will have been a princess for 9 years this year, whilst Mary has only justed started official duties. Moreover, Mary is stepping into a Crown Princess position which is considered more than princess.
Isn&#39;t it sad that some people are comparing these two? For goodness sakes, Alexandra has been given nine years to mold herself into the "perfect" princess role.

Jacqueline 04-07-2004 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by montecarlo@Apr 7th, 2004 - 6:12 am
Quote:

Mary&#39;s CV isn&#39;t unimpressive when considering the jobs that she has held and the companies at which she has been employed. She worked at very respectable and reputable companies and agencies. Her CV is diverse which means that she has worked at several jobs and that isn&#39;t a bad thing.
Mary could have been a late bloomer when in comes to career paths. Of course, there&#39;s nothing wrong with that. Many people have difficulty figuring out what career path to follow after college. So, they go from one job to another, until they find fulfillment.

That does happen, however, it is my understanding that Mary wasn&#39;t just out of college during all of this time.

carlota 04-07-2004 08:05 AM

which is the relationship between mary and alexandra? do they get on well?

Jacqueline 04-07-2004 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlota@Apr 7th, 2004 - 12:05 pm
which is the relationship between mary and alexandra? do they get on well?
I&#39;m not really sure if they have an actual relationship or if they are simply acquaintances who are cordial because one is a wife and the other a fiancée of two brothers.

Of course, there has been a rumor mentioned every now and then about them not being friends and not getting along. I usually take such statements with a grain of salt. Rumors of this nature are always started about intelligent and attractive women, who are in the same professional or social circles. You can&#39;t be sure without major facts.

montecarlo 04-07-2004 02:16 PM

Quote:

I&#39;m not really sure if they have an actual relationship or if they are simply acquaintances who are cordial because one is a wife and the other a fiancée of two brothers.
Prince Joachim said that his wife, Alexandra, doesn&#39;t know much about Mary.

Jacqueline 04-07-2004 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by montecarlo@Apr 7th, 2004 - 6:16 pm

Prince Joachim said that his wife, Alexandra, doesn&#39;t know much about Mary.

That answers a few questions.

The two women are most likely civil, but not friends, at least for now. It is really what I expected.


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