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Old 05-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1
Ties between European and Oriental families

I was recently reading up on the Canadian Royal Family on Wikipedia (Monarchy of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and I learned something that had never occurred to me before:

"...As such, they are the distant relations of the Belgian, Danish, Greek, and Spanish Royal Families, and bear lineage from, amongst others, Arab, Armenian, Cuman, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Mongolian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Serbian, and Swedish ethnicities,[160] as well as, according to Moroccan and Chinese officials, respectively, being directly descended from the Prophet Muhammad and Tang Dynasty Chinese Emperors."

I had never considered that a single Royal family would consist of such a diverse mix of cultural heritage. And frankly I never expected (out of my own ignorance) a Western Royal family to be related to the Chinese Royal family.

In my mind the relationship only went so far like this:
Middle Eastern<->Southern European

Anyway! So my point in this post is in hopes someone can feed my curiousity!
I'm curious because I find it hard to imagine, for example, a French princess or royalty of some sort marrying a Chinese royalty, and moving into the palace. How would that relationship even work? How did they communicate back then?

I'm interested in learning more about the marriages and relationships between a European Royal family and an Oriental Royal family.

Any interesting stories, rumours, myths, or links, are all very appreciated

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Old 07-08-2010, 05:07 PM
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Posts: 177
I guess this surprises many people when they begin looking into royal genealogies. Although I could be described as British to the core, I was made aware from an early age that my recorded ancestry included people from the Caucasus, Crimea, Circassia. There has been in past centuries strong genetic drift from eastern Europe to the west.

With dynastic families it happened over a long period of time. Middle eastern princesses were married to rulers on their borders. Khazar princesses with eastern grandmothers were married to Kumans, Armenians, and other ruling families in the Caucasus. Their daughters and grandaughters in turn married Bulgars, Hungarians, Greeks. And of course when such marriages took place the bride would often take courtiers from her native country to her new home. They invariably married into the receiving native nobility.

The consort of George V, Mary of Teck had, through her morganatic grandmother, a very exotic genealogy from the east via the Caucasus etc. Thus giving the present British royal family a rich genetic history.

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Old 07-09-2010, 02:10 AM
norenxaq's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: La jolla, United States
Posts: 114
Khazar-Kuman marriage? any specifics?

there was a french-kievan mediaeval marriage.

as for oriental links, those are more distant and traveled westward via intermediaries.

I do have a possible Tang-English royal lineage, but am unsure it is the one referred to above. please post details

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Old 07-10-2010, 07:49 AM
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Posts: 177
Ties between European and Oriental families.

I have taken my information from my own recorded genealogy, and from the work of, Sir Iain Moncrieff of Moncrieff, Baronet. Presently I cannot put my hands on my copy of his 1956 work,
Blood Royal - published by Thomas Nelson and Sons. However, I am sure a good public or academic library would have a copy.

Moncrieff of that Ilk was Albany Herald at the Lord Lyon King of Arms court, and his scholarship and integrity is impeccable. Even though the slim volume (illustrated amusingly by Don Pottinger) appears as though it may be a children's book, it is not lacking in scholarly rigour.

One problem with the east/west dynastic connections is that early scribes failed to record the incoming bride's name, only that of her royal father. I recall from my father's time that there was a very tall officer in one of our Guards regiments by the name of Kong during the 1940s, who was a member of the Chinese imperial family. The connections refered to above would not be direct marriages say between a Scots royal duke and a Korean princess, but rather of genetic drift facilitated by state polity in eastern Europe. A fascinating topic nonetheless.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:05 PM
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hove, United Kingdom
Posts: 147
Albanian and Turkish.

For me an interesting and relatively recent tie between dynasties of Europe and eastern or oriental lineage is Albania's Royal House of Zogu and a marriage into the Turkish Ottoman Imperial Royal Dynasty of Osmani, and a new line from a branch of the House of Zogolli (Zogu) and Turkish Beys.

Firstly, there is the marriage of HM King Zog's sister, HH Princess Senije Zogu in 1936 to HIH Prince Mehmet Abid (Osmani) - a younger son of Sultan Abdul Hamid II of Turkey.
Although the couple had no children and later divorced.

Secondly, there is the line of descendants from HM King Zog's uncle, General Zia Pasha Zogolli (1858-1931) and his wife, Nadire Faik (1876-1940).
Zia Pasha Zogolli was a General in the Ottoman Army.
Their three children all married Turkish spouses of nobility and have Turkish/Albanian descendants.
The Albanian Zogolli's who settled in Turkey and became Turkish citizens were oblidged to change their Albanian surname of Zogolli to new surnames as Turkish citizens.
One son choice the similar name Zoga.
One son choice the name Burel, which was the place name and small town from where the Zogolli's came from in Mati, Albania.

The children of Zia Pasha Zogolli -

1- Fehim Ziya Zoga (1892-1954) married in 1913 - Mukaddes Hulusi (1901-1962).
Fehim Ziya Zoga was a Judge in Ankara.
2- Omer Naim Burel (1896-1943) married in 1920 - Guzin Hanun (1906-1938).
Omer Naim Burel was a Major in the Turkish Army.
3- Nevin Zoga (1916-19?) married in 1940 - Turgut Bey Aybarakin (1918-1993).
Both sons had children and they are now living in Turkey continuing the Turkish/Albanian lineage of Burel and Zoga.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:58 AM
Serene Highness
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: -, Antarctica
Posts: 1,305
The Hungarians (Magyar) are among the later tribes to settle in central Europe, they migrated from the Ural Mountains through eastern Europe and Caucasus before they settled in present-day Hungary after 895. Hungarian princesses married into European royal and aristrocratic families as early as 986. There were also marriages between Hungarian kings and princesses from the Cuman, as well as from Kiev and the Byzantine empire.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:52 PM
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Detroit, United States
Posts: 379
Prince Chakrabongse Bhuvanadh of Thailand married a Russian lady(sometimes listed as Ukrainian) but she was not royal or noble. It is interesting though.

Chakrabongse Bhuvanadh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A book has been written about the couple but I think it's only available in Thai:
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:09 AM
Leah2016's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 19
I read somewhere that Queen Elizabeth II is descended from the Tang Dynasty of China. I have never been able to find that link, though. Does anyone know which Tang Dynasty monarch she is descended from?
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:21 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: La jolla, United States
Posts: 114
Emperor Suzong 756-762
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:57 AM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 19
I read somewhere that Queen Elizabeth II is descended from the Tang Dynasty of China. I have never been able to find that link, though. Does anyone know which Tang Dynasty monarch she is descended from?
Emperor Suzong 756-762
GOSH! Where on earth is the source for that???
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:40 AM
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Liljendal, Finland
Posts: 1
Yes, Royals have always been the MOST INTERNATIONAL networked groups of people.

I have few hundred different nationalities in my family tree, including many Chinese Emperors.

Another thing is that in times of antique even commoner people have always been more international, than what is teached for our children in modern schools.

People did A LOT of international trade those times... much more, than average men are thinking today... - Business was almost as international, as it is today.

Nobles Houses cross-married with wealthy merchant families often. There was quite simple reason for that: Many Noble Houses were just earlier elevated and successful merchant / military families.

But Royal Dynasties were different...

The reason, why Royals married only with other Royals was that in those times there was an ancient BREEDING CULT in effect.

The 'holly blood' was meant to be restricted inside certain blood-lines.

That breeding-cult was a very powerful cult... actually it was an international religion... thus many ancient mightier rulers were worshipped as God-Kings even during their life-times... (think e.g. Pharaohs at Egypt).

Many other dead Kings were elevated as Grand Spirits (deities) at some point after their deaths.

'Druhtinaz of ancient Kvenland / modern Finland'
'Pendragon of Slavic and Ugrian people'
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