Royal Cousins

[Furienna]

I believe it became gross and taboo for commoners to marry too close relatives many centuries ago, even if it still happened. But the more distinguished the family was, the more important it was, that you made a good match. The royals were the most distinguished of them all, of course, and they could only marry other royals. And soon, all the royals in Europe were related to each other, so it became more and more common for even first cousins to marry each other, and second, third and fourth cousins must have gotten married to each other all the time. Five Bernadotte princes have been rejected their royal titles and rights to the thrown because they married "common" women, but if they had married some of their relatives among Europe's princesses, even if they were their first cousins, it would have been okay. But it was worse in ancient Egypt. The pharaohs and their families were considered descendants of the god Horus, and it seems to have been common, that even half-siblings within that royal house married each other. They were divine after all, and they were only good enough for each other. And also, even if it was taboo for mere mortals to marry too close relatives, it was okay for half-gods like the royals. More modern royal houses have had similar ideas. Even if was taboo for commoners to marry close relatives, it was not only okay, but even the only thing to do, for royals.

 

[Lady Jennifer]

Now, this is a must have and must print out for everyone here! I just found one of the most complete PDF genealogical trees on the British Royals. If you view it with the browser you have to use the zoom in because I'm afraid it lists everybody. Enjoy:
http://www.achievements.co.uk/services/royal/RFT.pdf

Thats a great link. Thanks for sharing it. I'm always looking for family trees.

 

[Toledo]

I believe it became gross and taboo for commoners to marry too close relatives many centuries ago, even if it still happened. But the more distinguished the family was, the more important it was, that you made a good match. The royals were the most distinguished of them all, of course, and they could only marry other royals. And soon, all the royals in Europe were related to each other, so it became more and more common for even first cousins to marry each other, and second, third and fourth cousins must have gotten married to each other all the time. Five Bernadotte princes have been rejected their royal titles and rights to the thrown because they married "common" women, but if they had married some of their relatives among Europe's princesses, even if they were their first cousins, it would have been okay. But it was worse in ancient Egypt. The pharaohs and their families were considered descendants of the god Horus, and it seems to have been common, that even half-siblings within that royal house married each other. They were divine after all, and they were only good enough for each other. And also, even if it was taboo for mere mortals to marry too close relatives, it was okay for half-gods like the royals. More modern royal houses have had similar ideas. Even if was taboo for commoners to marry close relatives, it was not only okay, but even the only thing to do, for royals.

Royals in particular are like a mini town community that did not marry much out of their rank. Even nobles were often not good enough for a royal marriage. That did not stop neither Royals or Aristocrats from finding other ways to multiply with each other that did not involve wearing white. But the legal ones were limited to their own kin, thus the dangerous inbreeding. How do you think the facial traits became so exagerated in so many paintings of that period.
Now that marriage is a little more flexible I don't see why royal princes have to give up the titles for just making improvements with some much needed new DNA in the family.

 

[Toledo]

Thats a great link. Thanks for sharing it. I'm always looking for family trees.

Me too! I'll keep you in mind then when I stroll around the web looking for new or rare family trees. I'll pm them to you for your collection. I created a folder in my laptop to store them by country or timeline.

 

[Furienna]

Royals in particular are like a mini town community that did not marry much out of their rank. Even nobles were often not good enough for a royal marriage. That did not stop neither Royals or Aristocrats from finding other ways to multiply with each other that did not involve wearing white. But the legal ones were limited to their own kin, thus the dangerous inbreeding. How do you think the facial traits became so exagerated in so many paintings of that period.
Now that marriage is a little more flexible I don't see why royal princes have to give up the titles for just making improvements with some much needed new DNA in the family.

That's so true. We had a Prince Oskar in Sweden, who was disowned for marrying a lady-in-waiting named Ebba Munck af Fulkila. Her name suggests, that she was a noble lady, but not even that was good enough for a prince. But if he had married his cousin's daughter, like his brother Carl did, he would have remained a prince. Carl's and Ingeborg's daughters Astrid and Märta became ancestors of the Belgian and Norveigan royal houses respectively, while their cousins, Oscar's and Ebba's children, fell into oblivion as mere counts and countesses. It was just absurd. You weren't allowed to marry who you wanted, but you were allowed to marry your cousin! The new blood is very needed, and common-born queens like Silvia and Sonja could hardly have been better if they had been born as princesses, could they?

 

[morhange]

I think Queen Victoria would both agree and disagree with some of you!

I'm reading Grandmama of Europe by Theo Aronson, and I looked through some of the page that I've read, but I can't find where it was, so I'll do my best to paraphrase.

Queen V DID say she wished for some new blood in Europe's royal families, mostly because she was tired of all the blonde-haired, blue-eyed princes and princesses, and thought introducing some darker features would do them some good. She also believed that a marriage should be made for love, and not political reasons, and didn't like forcing her numerous grandchildren into politically advantageous marriages unless they were willing.

However she did say that she thought marrying within the family was a way to strengthen the royal bloodline. She figured if a prince was worried that such close blood relationships with a potential wife would cause genetic defects in the children, he would go out of his way to avoid her, and then marry some commoner or low-born countess (or princess) with no real royal blood, who would just bring in the very diseases he was trying to avoid.

I wouldn't say hemophilia in her descendants was caused by such close marriages, because it would have happened regardless of whether Alix and Ena had married into royalty or not. It might have been CAUSED by Victoria's being first cousins with Albert, but who knows.

 

[Lady Jennifer]

Six modern monarchies have descendents from Queen Victoria: Great Britain of course, and Spain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Luxembourg. And Belgium is descended from the same family as Queen V, the Coburgs.

Leopold I of Belguim was Queen Victoria's uncle (brother to the Queen's mother) & the uncle of Prince Albert (brother to Albert's father). He was also the son-in-law of King George IV when he married Princess Charlotte....so he was also a cousin-in-law to Queen Victoria & nephew-in-law to his sister.

 

[SusanE]

I wouldn't say hemophilia in her descendants was caused by such close marriages, because it would have happened regardless of whether Alix and Ena had married into royalty or not. It might have been CAUSED by Victoria's being first cousins with Albert, but who knows.

No, Albert and Victoria being first cousins had nothing to do with hemophilia because it is transmitted by the mother unless the father is a hemophiliac...and Albert was not a hemophiliac. Most experts feel that the hemophilia gene in Victoria was due to a sponataneous mutation. Here are some hemophilia basics:

[FONT=&quot]Hemophilia is transmitted on the X chromosome and it is a recessive trait. Women have XX chromosomes and men have XY chromosomes. Each person gets 1 chromosome from each parent. A woman has XX chromosome so she can only pass an X chromosome onto her children. A man has XY and can pass either chromosome on so the father determines the child's sex. If the father passes the X, it's a girl and if the father passes the Y, it's a boy. Now let's look at a woman carrying hemophilia. The hemophilia gene will be on only 1 of her chromosomes so the carrier mother has a 50% chance of passing on the chromosome with hemophilia. If she passes the chromosome on to a daughter, that daughter will be a carrier. The daughter will not have hemophilia because she has a healthy X chromosome from her father. But if the mother passes that X chromosome on to a boy, he will be a hemophiliac. The only way for a female to be a hemophiliac is for her to be the daughter of a carrier and a hemophiliac. The daughter of a hemophiliac will always be a carrier because her father can only pass on an X chromosome with hemophilia on it. However a hemophiliac's sons will not have hemophilia because the hemophiliac father will pass on a Y chromosome and his wife will pass on a healthy X chromosome.

[/FONT]

 

[crisiñaki]

Vittorio Emmanuele of Italy and Simeon of Bulgaria are first cousins, Simeon's mother was sister of VE's father...

Also Amadeo of Aosta is first cousin with Queen Sofia (like almost everybody else) because his mother was sister to King Pavlos I (Sofia's father) so Aimone is second cousin to Felipe, Cristina, Elena, Alexia, Pavlos, Nikolaos, Theodora and Phillippos...

Queen Sofia is also first cousin of Ernst August of Hannover so Juan Urdangarín de Borbón and Alexandra of Hannover are third cousins

 

[HRH Kerry]

1st cousins Felipe and Pavlos were roommates at Georgetown University in Washington, DC

 

[magnik]

How is the Last Tsar (Nicholas II) Related to Elizabeth II

Few of their relationships:
http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en;em=R;ei=103031;long=on;spouse=on;et=M;color=;i=219876

 

[Furienna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
Victoria belonged to the house of Hannover. Her husband Albert was a Coburg.

Her mother was a Coburg.

Oh, I forgot to say this. Both Victoria's mother and Albert were Coburgs. Albert was Victoria's mother's brother's son, that is, her first cousin.

 

[magnik]

Franz Friedrich von Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld, Herzog von SCS (1750-1806) and his second wife Auguste Karoline,Grafin Reuss zu Ebersdorf (1757-1831) have 9 childrens. Two of them were:
- Ernst I (1784-1844), Herzog von Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld 1806-1826, Herzog von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha 1826-1844 ) with his first wife 1817-1826 div, Luise von Sachsen, Herzogin von Sachsen-Altenburg (1800-1831) has 2 sons, including Albert von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, Prinz von SCG, Herzog von Sachsen and Prince Consort of Great Britain and Ireland (1819-1861);
- Victoria (1786-1861), Prinzessin von SCS, married twice, first with Furst Emich von Leiningen (1763-1814) two children; second with Edward Augustus von Hannover, Duke of Kent (1767-1820) - Queen Victoria (1819-1901).

http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en&em=R&ei=116300&m=NG&n=&t=PN&select=261352&long=on&spouse=on&bd=0&color=&et=A

 

[Furienna]

So Queen Victoria had two older half siblings?

 

[magnik]

Yes.
1. Carl (1804-1856) Furst von Leiningen 1814-1856 married 1829-1848 div, with Marie Grafin Klebelsberg (1806-1880)- son Ernst (1830-1904) married with Marie Zahringen, Princes von Baden (1834-1899) two children. http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/leiningen.html
2. Feodore (1807-1872) Princess von Leiningen married with Ernst, Prince zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg (1794-1860) six children. http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/hohenlohe.html


http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en;i=116355
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Victoria_of_Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld

 

[puppigurl2005]

i was able to find a website devoted to Queen Victoria's Descendants. the creator gives detailed charts about every royal family that existed and who were related to Victoria. i don't think the site has been posted , and if it has, please let me know...I'm a little sketchy on the posting websites thing so I'll just give directions (i really don't want to be reprimanded again). anyways, just go on to any browser and type in descendants of queen victoria and it should be the second site listed. Hope this proves usefull to your cousin thread.

 

[SusanE]

i was able to find a website devoted to Queen Victoria's Descendants. the creator gives detailed charts about every royal family that existed and who were related to Victoria. i don't think the site has been posted , and if it has, please let me know...I'm a little sketchy on the posting websites thing so I'll just give directions (i really don't want to be reprimanded again). anyways, just go on to any browser and type in descendants of queen victoria and it should be the second site listed. Hope this proves usefull to your cousin thread.

This may be the site you have in mind:

http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/QV_Descendants_Statistics.htm

 

[Furienna]

That's a very interesting page, SusanE. It might not be what Puppigurl has seen, but I like it.

 

[puppigurl2005]

yeah, thats the page. Guess eveyone has seen it except me. i now have it bookmarked...just in case i need to figure out whose related to who some day.

 

[kelausha]

The closest intermarriages seems to have occured in the Catholic Royal Families, where it was not unsual for an uncle to marry a niece.

King Constantine II of Greece and Prince Philip of UK are first cousins once removed.

King George I - Prince Andrew- Prince Philip

King George I- King Constantine- King Paul- Constantine II

 

[puppigurl2005]

Robert Warholm's Royal site

found this site while looking for royal cousins. All you have to do is click on the royal house that you want to look at, click on FAQ and scroll down to the very end to see how every monarch is related to that particular house. It's quite helpful.

http://ftp.cac.psu.edu/~saw/royal/royalgen.html

This site is also helpful...and very complex (starts with the British Royal family and keeps on building)

 

[acdc1]

Is the princely family of Monaco related to any other royals? I'm pretty sure they are not through the close ties that other royal families are, but are they related anywhere?

 

[principessa]

The page warholm.nu is very interesting for the relationships of the royal Europe. The exact relation is reported. It's very easy to understand because he had discribed the relation of each monarch to another monarch.

 

[puppigurl2005]

Is the princely family of Monaco related to any other royals? I'm pretty sure they are not through the close ties that other royal families are, but are they related anywhere?

Denmark: Queen Margrethe II and the late Prince Rainier were 5th cousins once removed (5th cousin twice removed for Prince Albert)

Sweden: King Carl Gustaf and the late Prince Rainier were 5th cousins once removed (same as Denmark)

Norway: King Harald V and the late Prince Rainier were 6th cousins once removed (making Prince Albert King Harald V's 6th cousin twice removed...)

Belgium: King Albert II and the late Prince Rainier were 4th cousins (which makes Prince Albert his 4th cousin once removed)

Netherlands: Queen Beatrix and the late Prince Rainier were 6th cousins (making Prince Albert her 6th cousin once removed)

Luxmebourg: Grand Duke Henri and the late Prince Rainier were 4th cousins once removed (which makes Prince Albert his 4th cousin twice removed)

Spain: King Juan Carlos and the late Prince Rainier were 5th cousins (making Prince Albert his 5th cousin once removed)

Liechtenstien: Prince Hans-Adams and the late Prince Rainier were 5th cousins (which makes Prince Albert his 5th cousin once removed)

Bulgaria: King Simeon II and the late Prince Rainier were 5th cousins once removed (making Prince Albert his 5th cousin twice removed)

Romania: King Mihai I and the late Prince Rainer were 4th cousins. (whcih makes Prince Albert his 4th cousin once removed)

Yugoslavia: Crown Prince Alexander and the late Prince Rainier were 4th cousins once removed (which makes Prince Albert his 4th cousin twice removed)

Greece: King Constantine II and the late Prince Rainier were 6th cousins (making him and Prince Albert 6th cousins once removed)

Portugal: Prince Duarte Pio and the late Prince Rainier were 7th cousins (making him and Prince Albert 7th cousins once removed)

anyone who wants to make corrections with the relations, please do.

 

[BurberryBrit]

Hans Adams of Liechtenstein is a cousin of Queen Elizabeth. Does anyone know if they are related to other royals?

 

[tlg00]

Hans Adam II is a third cousin to both Albert II of Belgium and Grand Duke Henri through Michael I of Portugal.

Michael I - Maria Theresa - Elisabeth - Franz Joseph II - Hans Adam II
Michael I - Maria Josepha - Elisabeth - Leopold III - Albert II

Henri has more than one line of descent from Michael I. He and Hans Adam are third cousins through GD Jean and third cousins once removed through Josephine-Charlotte.

Michael I - Maria Theresa - Elisabeth - Franz Joseph II - Hans Adam II
Michael I - Maria Anna - Charlotte - Jean - Henri

Michael I - Maria Theresa - Elisabeth - Franz Joseph II - Hans Adam II
Michael I - Maria Antonia - Felix - Jean - Henri

Michael I - Maria Theresa - Elisabeth - Franz Joseph II - Hans Adam II
Michael I - Maria Josepha - Elisabeth - Leopold III - Josephine-Charlotte - Henri

 

[BurberryBrit]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Royal Fan]

How Were" Willy and Nicky" Related

 

[acdc1]

They were distant cousins (can another member tell how?) but they were closely related through marriage. Nicholas' wife, Alexandra, was Willy's first cousin (their mothers were sisters). However, Alexandra had always disliked Willy.

 

[andrew]

.

King Michael is:
-first cousin with Constantine II, his mother was Constantine's father's sister; -first cousin once removed with Alexander II of Yugoslavia(Alexander's maternal grandfather was brother to queen Helen-mother of Michael);
-second cousin with Prince Charles(Charles' paternal grandfather and Michael's maternal grandfather were brothers)
-second cousin once removed with Prince Felipe
-third cousin with Queen Elizabeth II
-third cousin with King Juan Carlos
-third cousin with king Harald V