France: Capet, Valois, Bourbon and Orléans Dynasties

[Teresa]

Originally posted by Sean.~@Jul 5th, 2003 - 6:07 pm
...Born Princess Isabelle of Orleans Braganca in 1911, ...

Anyone knows how is she related to the portuguese house of Bragança?

[Helena]

she was a member of the brazilian imperial family look at http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/brazil.html for more detalis...

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by ILOVEABBA@Nov 2nd, 2003 - 1:07 pm
TRH Prince Charles Louis and Princess Illena on their wedding day. The couple have four children. Princess Illena is of Greek Descent, nee Illena Manos.

She is related to Aspasia Manos aka Princess Aspasia of Greece, who was the wife of Alexander I of Greece and mother of Queen Alexandra of Yugoslavia (mother of the current pretender).

S.

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by ILOVEABBA@Nov 2nd, 2003 - 3:25 pm
Sean, thanks i did,nt know that.

Thrassybulos Manos > Konstantine Manos > Alexander Manos > Konstantine Manos > Ileana Manos


Thrassybulos Manos > Petros Manos - Aspasia Manos > Queen Alexandra of Greece > Alexander of Yugoslavia

Aspasia is from the senior line.

Sean

[Marengo]

hey was all of Louis XVI siblings executed during the revolution as well? wouldn't their descendants be the heir to the French throne?

as I said above, the brothers of Louis XVI were the (childless) king Louis XVIII and King Charles X (both married to savoy princesses). Only Charles had legitimate children, 2 sons: Louis and Ferdinand. Louis (XIX), Duke de Angouleme married his cousin Marie-Therese (only surviving daughter of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette), the marriage remained childless. The other son of Charles X firstly had a morganatic marriage to an american called Amy Brown, they divorced in 1815 and Ferdinand, Duke de Berry married Caroline of Bourbon-Two-Sicilies. The couple got a daughter Louise (who later married the duke of Parma) but in 1820 Ferdinand was murdered. BUT Caroline was pregnant and several months later she got a healthy son, Henry (V), Duke de Bordeaux, Count de Chambord. Henry became the head of the Bourbon family of France but his marriage to Theresa of Austria-Este (Modena) remained childless. So after his death in 1883 the french branch of the Bourbon family had died out & only italian and spanish branches excisted. The successionrights went to the descendants of the brother of Louis XIV, the Orleans family.

FYI Louis XVI sister Clothilde was safe as Queen of Sardinia but his sister Elisabeth was executed in 1794 when she was 30 years old.

[Toledo]

While looking for some living descendants (if any) of the House of Valois, mentioned in a DVD I was watching called The Affair of the Necklace) I found some sites worth keeping around. The Valois, as the predecessors of the Bourbons/Borbon/Borbone, deserve a space for their own data.

Anyone knows of any living descendants that use that title today? What I found so far is that they also recognize Luis Alfonso de Borbon as their heir under the name Valois.

Genealogy of the House Valois: http://valois.org/html/genealogy.html

The Valois website http://valois.org/

It has some nice flash animation and is in English and French. Although the small font size over a black background is hard on my eyes:
http://valois.org/html/valois_-_the_...use_of_fr.html

A pdf file in French: The House Valois Revisited

On page 3 it has three pictures of Valois Kings worth keeping (as future Avatars )

For those intrigued by the large Valois family, here is a list of Counts and Dukes:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...ducs_de_Valois

In 2005 the House Valois was the 'star' of the TV series Les Rois Maudits, that series is like a tie-in to our other thread on the Da Vinci Code since it mentions the macabre ambush done by the Valois to the Knights Templar. Unfortunately, the series is now on DVD and the damn short sigthed producers never bothered to translate it nor to put subtitles on it, same thing happaned with the 1970's version I have on DVD, no translation of any kind.

Their show website is stunning http://les-rois-maudits.france2.fr/

[Toledo]

House Orleans Genealogy in a PDF Chart. Now, this is a must-have must-print for all fans of genealogy. Is in one of the best and well organized sites made by an effort of father and son to gather all the royal houses family trees of past and present. Even though is a Spanish based site, you don't need to know the language to guess the family tree. :)

The House Orleans 1830 - 1999

Part II

The House Orleans 1929-2004

[Sancia]

There are errors in this link. The family's name is Orléans, not Bourbon-Orléans (French court of justice refused to grant them the right to bear the Bourbon surname).

I'll post soon a complete descendance of the last count of Paris.

[Toledo]

Oops, I forgot about that court case!
Thanks for the reminder, I'm correcting the link right away...

I read about it at Guy De Sainty's site, I think he has the court transcrpit with the details on why the Orleans wanted to revert the name to Bourbon and the reasons the Court rejected it. I know only the Bourbon-Parma and Bourbon Two Sicilies use the original French last name hyphenated to identify the state they ruled. There is no Bourbon-Spain, we just adapted the name to Borbon or Borbones de Espana, but no hypehn as far as I know. But, within Spain there are Borbon sub families with the hyphenation.

I have found that the only times I've seen Bourbon added to Orleans is when a member of the Orleans family marries a member of the Bourbon family from one of the external Borbon branches that came out of Spain, like Don Alfonso de Orléans-Borbón, of the House Borbon-Galliera.
Here is more on Alphonso, Duke of Galliera, Prince de Orléans-Borbon, Infante de España

[Toledo]

This link lists a lot of Bourbons we don't hear about:

Descendants of Robert de France Comte de Clermont-en-Beauvaisis

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by Sean.~

Thrassybulos Manos > Konstantine Manos > Alexander Manos > Konstantine Manos > Ileana Manos


Thrassybulos Manos > Petros Manos - Aspasia Manos > Queen Alexandra of Greece > Alexander of Yugoslavia

Aspasia is from the senior line.

Sean

Ileana is also a descendant of Prince Vlad II Dracul of Wallachia,Byzantine Emperors as well as the descendant of the Kings of France and House of Capet,House of her husband...here is her line:



King Henri I of France,lived from 1008-1060
I
Prince Hughes I Magnus of France,Count of Vermadois et de Valois,lived from 1057-1101
I
Princess Agnes of France,Countess of Vermandois,died in 1125
I
Marquis Manfredo I de Vasto of Saluzzo,lived from 1090-1175
I
Marquis Anselmo de Bosco
I
Marquise Elena de Bosco,married before 1178
I
Marquis Guillermo VIII of Monferrato,lived from 1773-1225
I
Marquis Boniface II of Monferrato,lived from 1202-1256
I
Marquis Guillermo IX of Monferrato,lived from 1243-1292
I
Marquise Yolanda de Monferrato,Regent of Thessaloniki,lived from 1274-1313
I
Prince Demetrios Angelodukas Palaiologos of Byzantium,lived from 1296-1343
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos of Thessaloniki,married in 1341
I
Prince Theodorus Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,Sebastokrator and Despot of Moreia,lived from 1361-1410
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,lived from 1400-1457
I
Prince Stephan Brankovic,Despot of Raska,lived from 1425-1476
I
Prince Jovan Brankovic,Despot of Raitzen,lived from 1465-1502
I
Princess Jelena Brankovic,strangled in 1552
I
Princess Ruxandra Rares,Regent of Moldavia,lived from 1537-1570
I
Ilias,Ruler of Wallachia
I
Alexandru Ilias,Duke of Wallachia
I
Ilias Alexandru,Duke o Wallachia from 1666-1668
I
Princess Sultane Chrysokula of Wallachia,died in 1694
I
Princess Helene Mavrocordato,lived from 1682-1722
I
Princess Marioara Rosetti
I
Michael Soutzo,Prince of Wallachia and Moldavia,lived from 1729-1803
I
Princess Marioara Soutzo,died in 1846
I
Sevastia Argyropoulo,lived from 1806-1883
I
Trasybulos Manos,lived from 1835-1922
I
Konstantinos Manos,lived from 1869-1913
I
Alexander Manos,lived from 1903-1979
I
Konstantinos Manos,born in 1937
I
ILEANA MANOS,Duchesse de Chartres,born in 1971

[rosemilk]

I'm just curious.

[Marc23]

Yes,although Antoinette was Catholic and Alix Lutheran and lived in different eras both of them descended from Landgraf Wilhelm V von Hessen-Kassel who lived from 1602-1637...here is the line to M.Antoinette:


Landgraf Wilhelm V von Hessen-Kassel,lived from 1602-1637
I
Princess Charlotte von Hessen-Cassel,lived from 1627-1686
I
Princess Elizabeth Charlotte von der Pfalz-Simmern,lived from 1652-1722
I
Princess Elizabeth Charlotte d'Orleans,lived form 1676-1744
I
Duke Francis Stephan of Lorraine,Holy Roman Emperor,lived from 1708-1765
I
Archduchess Maria Antonia Josefa Johanna of Austria,known as Marie Antoinette,lived from 1755-1793



Here si the line to Alix:



Landgraf Wilhelm V von Hessen-Kassel,lived from 1602-1637
I
Landgraf Wilhelm VI von Hessen-Kassel,lived from 1629-1663
I
Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel,lived form 1654-1730
I
Princess Marie Louise von Hessen-Kassel,lived form 1688-1765
I
Princess Charlotte von Nassau-Dietz,lived from 1710-1777
I
Grand Duke Karl Freidrich von Baden,lived from 1728-1811
I
Hereditary Prince Karl Ludwig von Baden,lived from 1755-1801
I
Princess Wilhelmine von Baden,lived from 1788-1836
I
Prince Karl von Hessen und Rhine,lived form 1809-1877
I
Grand Duke Ludwig von Hessen und Rhine,lived from 1837-1892
I
Princess Viktoria Alix Helena Luise Beatrice von Hessen und Rhine,later Empress Alexandra Feodorovna,lived from 1872-1918

[rosemilk]

Wow Marc, thanks so much, that is really interesting. I read that Alix kept a picture of Marie Antoinette on her desk, she was so moved by her, and since their fates were so similar, it is even more strange (though not surprising, given the amount of intermarriage) that they were distantly related.

[Marc23]

Well,they must have been distantly related because Antoinette died in 18th century and Alix in the 20th...they lived in a different eras and there had to be a bigger amount of ancestors for Alix to connect her to Antoinette...

Apart from that Antoinette was a Catholic which means that they made marriages with no other then just Catholics.

The same could be said for Alix's family...they were Lutheran and made marriages only with fellow Lutherans,Orthodox or Protestants...Catholics "were not the choice" for these kind of families...

Those were the main reasons for their distant relation...

P.S.Rosemilk,no problem,I love solving family connections

[ladybelline]

Thank you for all the genealogic research! Very interesting.

On the same subject, both Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were descendants of Mary, Queen of Scots, and shared her fate...

Mary, Queen of Scots
I
James I (VI), King of England and Scotland
I
Charles I, King of England
I
Henrietta Anne of England, Duchess of Orleans
I
Anne Marie of Orleans, Duchess of Savoy
I
Marie Adélaide of Savoy, Duchess of Burgundy then Dauphine of France
I
Louis XV, King of France
I
Louis Ferdinand, Dauphin of France
I
Louis XVI


Mary, Queen of Scots
I
James I (VI), King of England and Scotland
I
Elizabeth of England, Queen of Bohemia (the "Winter Queen")
I
Charles Louis, Elector Palatine
I
Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate, Duchess of Orleans
I
Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans, Duchess of Lorraine
I
Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor
I
Marie-Antoinette of Austria

[David V]

The House of Capet began with Hugh Capet, who was son of Hugh the Great, son of Robert I. So therefore, the Capet dynasty is a branch of the Robertians, the oldest known progenitor is Robert of Hesbaye in the 8th century. Going back further than that is less certain.

[Lady Deborah]

Hello
I'm descended from Louis VII of France and Eleanor of Aquitaine. Anyone interested in going that far back?

Eleanor was married to Louis VII king of France before they divorced and she married Henry II of England. Louis and she had two children, I think, both girls. One was Alix de France princess of France from whom I am descended.
Anyone have a particular interest in those far away reaches of French genealogy?

[oneofthem]

Originally Posted by Lady Deborah

Hello
I'm descended from Louis VII of France and Eleanor of Aquitaine. Anyone interested in going that far back?

Eleanor was married to Louis VII king of France before they divorced and she married Henry II of England. Louis and she had two children, I think, both girls. One was Alix de France princess of France from whom I am descended.
Anyone have a particular interest in those far away reaches of French genealogy?

Yes, I am interested, mainly because we both share the same great grandmother

The other of Louis and Eleanor's children was Marie.

Every now and then I visit grandma's grave on "Find a Grave" and post a virtual rose for her

Also drop by Pop and Uncle Rick there as well

[Lady Deborah]

Then we are cousins!
What resources are available to study details from that far back? Court records? Diaries and journals?
Good to hear from you.