Exposing Imposters

[Denville]

If the DoE had out of wedlock children that were even acknowledged by the Queen, than the yellow press papers all over the world would be overflowing with that story. Besides, such children wouldn't be titled. And it's completely out of the question, that a child gets the last name of her mother in combination with a Princess title from the father. 'Princess Kennedy' is complete nonsense, unless the US turns decides to create princely titles for the members of the families of their ex-presidents. (Mind you, I don't see that one coming any time soon.)

Its her first name, not her title...

 

[Tilia C.]

Its her first name, not her title...

OK, but she seems to people to believe that it's her title.

 

[Denville]

OK, but she seems to people to believe that it's her title.

Perhaps she does, but its not gonna get her anywhere. There are load of people who call htemsleves Count or Prince or what have you...

 

[Baylor]

True, but in any case illegitimate offspring of royals whether true or fake, aren't really royal….

That's for sure.

 

[Kataryn]

True, but in any case illegitimate offspring of royals whether true or fake, aren't really royal….

I am not so sure. Sinde the UK passed the new bill on courtesy titles, it is possible for adopted children to use the same styles and courtesy titles as the blood children of a peer. So if the souverain wanted, it should be possible to adopt an illegitime child and declare them Royal, including the official style and precedence.



In France there is the historical example of Louis XIV. who declared his illegitime offspring not only as full members of the "Maison de France" and thus as princes of the blood Royal, but even declared in his will that if his legitimate descendants died, the line would continue with the illegitimate - thus declaring that it is the Royal blood that counts, not the question of who the mother was or if the child was born in wedlock.



Before that there are other examples of illegitimate children becoming the Head of a Royal House. Most notable William the Conqueror.



I agree that nowadays the "myth of the Blood Royal" does not seem to count for much (see the treatment the princesses of York receive at the hands of the media/Part of the public) and the way Royal Houses try to downgrade their members who are further down the line, but there is still the example of the Swedish RF, who accepts that female blood can give Royalty as well.


Same with noble blood: if my two grandmothers had been men, then I'd be named a Countess today (in my country this is just part of the name, so...), with both parents of the nobility. Because they were women, I only have some titled relations and noone in the family considers our part of it as "noble".

 

[Denville]

The Crown is not the same as a peerage.. and adopted or illegitimate children of peers only use the courtesty title of a peer's child. They cannot get into the line of succession to the peerage

 

[BLACK CZARINA]

Oh I've got a story, we must talk about this prince

Unfortunately I know this fraud, he is an alcoholic and he is broke. He has an old phone, old shoes and cheap clothes, he goes around telling everyone he is a Prince which most royalty do not do! He scams his way into parties and tries any way he can to get his pic taken with a celebrity. He hangs out with suckers who want to feel important by hanging with a "Prince' and most likely they pay for everything because Denver never has his wallet on him!!!

I've got to talk to you,

 

[yukari]

I just found this thread.
So here's my contribution, a story from Japan:

Imperial imposters get 26 months

(...)

Yasuyuki Kitano, 44, and Harumi Sakamoto, 47, staged the sham wedding in April 2003 by pretending to be members of the Arisugawa family, part of the Imperial line that can be traced back to 1625 to Prince Yoshihito, the son of Emperor Goyozei.

(...)

According to the prosecutors, Kitano began calling himself Satohito Arisugawa in the mid-1980s and claimed to be a prince of the Arisugawa family. In 2003, however, the Metropolitan Police Department checked with the Imperial Household Agency and confirmed he was not related in any way to the royal family.

It is believed the impostor obtained information on the Arisugawa line from a public library in Kyoto Prefecture.

Kitano and Sakamoto first met in October 2002 and hatched the plan for the bogus wedding shortly after.

(...)

The bogus wedding attracted guests including celebrities, a former member of the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly and members of a rightwing group in Tokyo.

According to the ruling, Kitano appeared at the ceremony formally dressed as an army general, complete with white gloves and medals on his chest. Sakamoto, the impostor bride, donned a traditional 12-layer kimono at one point.

The two also charged their guests 10,000 yen to have memorial photos taken with the couple. When the photo sessions did not prove popular, Sakamoto asked for an announcement to be made notifying guests about the service.

In an absurd twist, however, it appears the couple failed to do their homework on the financing for the wedding: Even though they bilked the guests out of more than 12 million yen in cash, the cost of the ceremony is believed to have exceeded their take.

(...)

Although Kitano admitted early in the investigation to sending out the invitations, he denied during the trial that he misrepresented himself and said he in fact never stated to anyone publicly that he was as a member of the royal family.

Sakamoto also denied her part in the bogus ceremony, saying she merely had a wedding party and invited her friends.

“The two have been refusing to face up their crime and are escaping from reality,” the judge said in his ruling.

(...)

If you can't access the article, you can read the story here:

The Imposter Prince and an Imperial Wedding Scam?!

 

[BLACK CZARINA]

Scariest thing about imposter Royalties

The fear of knowing you crossed paths with someone who, before the court if Law refuses to accept reality and gos so far as to make a mockry of the courts posting a hearing as the daily life of a prince...is a dangerous person to cross paths with physically, not than online. I am learning it is not someone to write off as sad they can't face reality. To assume it's okay to expose them is as dangerous as walking into a D.V. situation, it's a huge possibility.I crossed paths online with one who will not stop at anything to living out the fantasy with jailed stints and more, warrants etc. Thing is too many bazaar incidents, showing off shooting a Glock at know target, mysterious so call marriage and girlfriend gone or dead. I blocked from my life, my fear, I left my entertainment contacts in clear site if this man and I had to start the process to notify.somethings are even too scary to expose,

 

[Toledo]

Susan, that's quite a great job you did there! Thanks for the links.

In this day and age people that pass as royals can be easily verified. Maybe in other times before the internet it was much easier since the information was difficult to compile. These days the truth is just a few clicks away from anyone in the planet.

About the Von Zeitschels, I found this: Person Page but so far the only mentions of him are about that tv show. Not much on his family or his claims to celebritydom. He reminds me of the embarrasment with another celebrity, Paris Hilton's ex-boyfriend Paris. Over here in the USA he was 'sold' for the public as a rich Greek heir and latter, after she got rid of him (or his family got rid of her?) he was unmasked as just another kid of that extended family and not the sole heir of the family fortune. It's all in what the TV wants to say to sell a character for ratings. Sometimes they lie, sometimes they stretch the importance of these people beyond their reality.

Speaking of fasle claimants, here is a link from Guy Stair Santy's site related to usurpers, false claimants and royal imposters. It's quite a great reading and will sure help to realize some royal people on TV are not all they claim to be, or as Stair Santy put's it "...of yet another freshly minted genealogy..." Scroll down to see the tactics some fantasy royals used in the past.

Oh my Gawd!!! When I returned to this forum few days ago I've been thinking my username was El Cid! Noo! that was one of my avatars! I just found 'me'. My user name back in 2005 was Toledo!
Wow wow and wow!
When I rejoined I should have tried to renew the old name but in my mind I was thinking of the little picture I used from an El Cid statue as my avatar. I also used for months an King Alfonso avatar and the one here was the last one I used.

Can I correct this and restore Toledo back? My last post was on 08-27-2007, 11:30 PM, and I was so opinionated at age 46! A month later in Sept 2007 I got a job promotion and moved to work at our Central Office. My last activity was on 04-10-2008 12:57 AM. The demands from the new job got me working on projects that limited my fun time after hours, so I stopped checking in here

I'm 61 now, I hope I'm more relaxed after retiring.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I am not so sure. Sinde the UK passed the new bill on courtesy titles, it is possible for adopted children to use the same styles and courtesy titles as the blood children of a peer. So if the souverain wanted, it should be possible to adopt an illegitime child and declare them Royal, including the official style and precedence.



In France there is the historical example of Louis XIV. who declared his illegitime offspring not only as full members of the "Maison de France" and thus as princes of the blood Royal, but even declared in his will that if his legitimate descendants died, the line would continue with the illegitimate - thus declaring that it is the Royal blood that counts, not the question of who the mother was or if the child was born in wedlock.



Before that there are other examples of illegitimate children becoming the Head of a Royal House. Most notable William the Conqueror.



I agree that nowadays the "myth of the Blood Royal" does not seem to count for much (see the treatment the princesses of York receive at the hands of the media/Part of the public) and the way Royal Houses try to downgrade their members who are further down the line, but there is still the example of the Swedish RF, who accepts that female blood can give Royalty as well.


Same with noble blood: if my two grandmothers had been men, then I'd be named a Countess today (in my country this is just part of the name, so...), with both parents of the nobility. Because they were women, I only have some titled relations and noone in the family considers our part of it as "noble".

I’m quite sure with descendants of illegitimate French royals could be granted titles, but no succession rights or even same titles as legitimate siblings. Also adopted children of peers won’t ever succeed in successions because that would defeat the purpose of the hereditary monarchy or British peerage which is usually based on children being born of wedlock not outside or children who aren’t related to the sovereign by blood. They can inherit property or wealth such as in the case of two children of the late Princess Orietta Doria-Pamphilij who were adopted. An example of illegitimate spawn are the Princes of Faucigny-Lucinge who are descendants of one of the French Kings, they weren’t granted the same styles and address given to legitimate royal princes but made part of the nobility.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Oh my Gawd!!! When I returned to this forum few days ago I've been thinking my username was El Cid! Noo! that was one of my avatars! I just found 'me'. My user name back in 2005 was Toledo!
Wow wow and wow!
When I rejoined I should have tried to renew the old name but in my mind I was thinking of the little picture I used from an El Cid statue as my avatar. I also used for months an King Alfonso avatar and the one here was the last one I used.

Can I correct this and restore Toledo back? My last post was on 08-27-2007, 11:30 PM, and I was so opinionated at age 46! A month later in Sept 2007 I got a job promotion and moved to work at our Central Office. My last activity was on 04-10-2008 12:57 AM. The demands from the new job got me working on projects that limited my fun time after hours, so I stopped checking in here

I'm 61 now, I hope I'm more relaxed after retiring.

I like your post because when I typed the fraud who made the claim you mentioned, they gars how I got know of the forums. I still don’t get why Carl did that.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Has anyone heard of this woman, Elizabeth Windsor Cragg?! She says she's the illegit child of Edward VIII. Edward VIII and whom? Wallis?!

Is she who she says she is -- I somehow got acquainted with her through a blog and had no idea who she was until she revealed herself to me. She has all this proof and what not and has a very convincing story -- and in some ways I can believe it but in other ways -- no. Like the whole abdication crises and how Elizabeth II eventually ended up as Queen. In actuality, Elizabeth was never supposed to become Queen -- I get that -- but it's just strange that the British would go through all of the explanations this woman has given me just to have a certain person as King/Queen.

Did Elizabeth Windsor Cragg's mother ever inform Edwatd VIII that she was going to have a baby?

 

[Toledo]

Did Elizabeth Windsor Cragg's mother ever inform Edwatd VIII that she was going to have a baby?

I've never heard of her.

CyrilVladisla posted the above in 2013. I found a news article from 2015 that sheds more light on what happened afterwards:
Source: Newsinsideout.com
Emily Windsor Cragg, Daughter of King Edward VIII, files Claim to UK Crown with UK Parliament, charges Elizabeth II with Treason

There is not much after 2017 and she does have a Facebook page that I just checked. Let's say it's interesting and a bit heartbreaking.

 

[Kataryn]

I've never heard of her.

CyrilVladisla posted the above in 2013. I found a news article from 2015 that sheds more light on what happened afterwards:
Source: Newsinsideout.com
Emily Windsor Cragg, Daughter of King Edward VIII, files Claim to UK Crown with UK Parliament, charges Elizabeth II with Treason

There is not much after 2017 and she does have a Facebook page that I just checked. Let's say it's interesting and a bit heartbreaking.

The lady is definately a bi deranged. Hitler was Edward VIII. and George VI's half-brother? Who staged WWII to give the people something else to think about but to mull about the abdication of Edward VIII??? Hello?

 

[Kataryn]

I’m quite sure with descendants of illegitimate French royals could be granted titles, but no succession rights or even same titles as legitimate siblings. Also adopted children of peers won’t ever succeed in successions because that would defeat the purpose of the hereditary monarchy or British peerage which is usually based on children being born of wedlock not outside or children who aren’t related to the sovereign by blood. They can inherit property or wealth such as in the case of two children of the late Princess Orietta Doria-Pamphilij who were adopted. An example of illegitimate spawn are the Princes of Faucigny-Lucinge who are descendants of one of the French Kings, they weren’t granted the same styles and address given to legitimate royal princes but made part of the nobility.

Louis XIV. gave his illegititmate sons not only titles but named the eldest as his heir, alas, the family, especially the king's nephew Philippe II. of Orleans, insisted to go with the legitimate heir, the very young Louis XV., with Orleans as prince regent.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Louis XIV. gave his illegititmate sons not only titles but named the eldest as his heir, alas, the family, especially the king's nephew Philippe II. of Orleans, insisted to go with the legitimate heir, the very young Louis XV., with Orleans as prince regent.

Louis XIV had many illegitimate children and granted them titles but they were all given the surname de Bourbon as opposed to the de France to distinguish between their legitimate born half-siblings.


Louis XIV elevated 2 of them to Prince's of the Blood and stipulated in his will if all legitimate born male members of the House of Bourbon died out that the throne would pass to the Duke of Maine and his younger brother the Count of Toulouse.
He also added the Duke of Maine as a co-Regent for the young Louis XV.
No sooner had the King died when the Duke of Orléans now as Regent, had the will of Louis XIV revoked by the Parlement de Paris.


Louis XIV illegititmate sons :

Louis de Bourbon, Count of Vermandois 1667-1683
Louis-Auguste de Bourbon, duc du Maine (1670 – 1736)
Louis César de Bourbon, Count of Vexin (1672 – 1683)
Louis Alexandre de Bourbon,Count of Toulouse (1678-1737)

 

[Toledo]

The lady is definately a bit deranged. Hitler was Edward VIII. and George VI's half-brother? Who staged WWII to give the people something else to think about but to mull about the abdication of Edward VIII??? Hello?

That's why I noted reading her page, her words, is heartbreaking because it is as someone not quite in touch with the world around her. Let's hope she has in her advance age people that look after her. Taking a peek on some of her books and my impression is, even the titles, have a lot of anger and frustration. Her story in the news seemed to go off the radar after 2017 at least in available online articles.

 

[Curryong]

That's why I noted reading her page, her words, is heartbreaking because it is as someone not quite in touch with the world around her. Let's hope she has in her advance age people that look after her. Taking a peek on some of her books and my impression is, even the titles, have a lot of anger and frustration. Her story in the news seemed to go off the radar after 2017 at least in available online articles.

I’m afraid that’s the case with many of these individuals who feel they are the rightful offspring of royalty.

Just recently we in Australia have had a man in the news who insists that he is the son of Prince Charles and Camilla. He appears to have a rather tortuous background involving adoption to explain some of why he hasn’t been accepted.

Before that there was a guy who believed he was Princess Margaret’s son. I don’t know what became of him. What is common with most of these people is that an obsession seems to develop from a belief that there is a mystery about their births and therefore royalty has to be somewhere in their backgrounds to explain it.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I’m afraid that’s the case with many of these individuals who feel they are the rightful offspring of royalty.

Just recently we in Australia have had a man in the news who insists that he is the son of Prince Charles and Camilla. He appears to have a rather tortuous background involving adoption to explain some of why he hasn’t been accepted.

Before that there was a guy who believed he was Princess Margaret’s son. I don’t know what became of him. What is common with most of these people is that an obsession seems to develop from a belief that there is a mystery about their births and therefore royalty has to be somewhere in their backgrounds to explain it.

The guy who believes himself to be Princess Margaret’s son, all her friends like Lady Rosemary Muir(Spencer-Churchill) and Lady Anne Glenconner dismissed those claims with clear evidence. Nothing came out of that, he was trying to get a look into the contents of Princess Margaret’s will. Plus he couldn’t even give the name of his “biological father”

 

[Toledo]

Anyone knows if these webs are for real? I had the feeling this is like these two websites below remind me of the one we see sponsoring youtubers to buy plots in Scotland and get a printable (!!!) certificate to have you authorized the use of Lord/Lady in your cards and Ids.

So, I found this while looking for Royal News around yesterday and my thought was almost delusional to read so why not fit it in here! They make a mention of a case in court that reminds me another pretender case on Maria Pia de Saxe-Coburgo e Bragança/Hilda de Toledano where legendary scholar Guy Stair Santy exposed this type of suspicious claims of Toledano's heir Mr. Rosario Poidimani . . He sued De Santy and won, then lost to De Santy on appeal .

Among other drama, Poidimani was arrested in 2007 on the charge of fraud making up Royal passports.


Are they for Real?
Commission and Association on Nobility

Bonus 2nd Are they for Real?
Charter of the Holy Roman Empire Association

 

[Jester]

Anyone knows if these webs are for real? I had the feeling this is like these two websites below remind me of the one we see sponsoring youtubers to buy plots in Scotland and get a printable (!!!) certificate to have you authorized the use of Lord/Lady in your cards and Ids.

So, I found this while looking for Royal News around yesterday and my thought was almost delusional to read so why not fit it in here! They make a mention of a case in court that reminds me another pretender case on Maria Pia de Saxe-Coburgo e Bragança/Hilda de Toledano where legendary scholar Guy Stair Santy exposed this type of suspicious claims of Toledano's heir Mr. Rosario Poidimani . . He sued De Santy and won, then lost to De Santy on appeal .

Among other drama, Poidimani was arrested in 2007 on the charge of fraud making up Royal passports.


Are they for Real?
Commission and Association on Nobility

Bonus 2nd Are they for Real?
Charter of the Holy Roman Empire Association

All so-called commissions are nothing but private associations. They try to be the “nobility police”. Even the ICOC is a joke! No legal standing!

 

[Toledo]

All so-called commissions are nothing but private associations. They try to be the “nobility police”. Even the ICOC is a joke! No legal standing!

They are as real as those YouTube ads we saw in the USA, all over the Summer and Fall last year, claiming you can be a Lord or Lady in Scotland if you send them money for a fake document that you owned a square of Scottish land. It was all a major scam going on for years associated with a group in Hong Kong creating them. They made millions and to this day no arrests known.


Established Titles Scam -YouTube's BIGGEST Con!


Yes, Established Titles Is A Scam