Descendance from Charlemagne

[Suzzanah]

There are so many children of this line it is difficult to include them all. Perhaps the best way to look is to the House Bourbon. Most members of this house are of the line. And then look at the Coat of Arms of the house you are in. Charlemagne's Coat of Arms has variations of the trinity on it, in clovers, elephants, heads, crowns and so on. Also I happen to know that those out of Sir Thomas Chapman, 10 generation from Robert 1 of France are all of this line through the Chapman side. The Rowlett family is also of this line. Also a large portion of the Mont Sartre are also of this lineage. Perhaps the great warriors' greatest accomplishment is that he left generations to remember him.

[norenxaq]

I seriously doubt any arms ascribed to charlemagne is contemporary with him

[AnnaPear]

Hello, I am new to the forum. I became very interested in the Royal lines after researching my family. I found out that my mother and father are actually 15th cousins through the Wallaces of Scotland. After looking at their lines, I found that they are different levels of cousin through many different pathways because of their royal ancestors. My line of the royals ended up poor commoners in the US after fleeing religious persecution and siding with the colonies in the American Revolution. Our line goes directly back to Charlemagne. After finding that information, i googled and found information that almost everyone can claim to be a direct descendant of Charlemagne.

[AthDara]

Originally Posted by AnnaPear

Hello, I am new to the forum. I became very interested in the Royal lines after researching my family. I found out that my mother and father are actually 15th cousins through the Wallaces of Scotland. After looking at their lines, I found that they are different levels of cousin through many different pathways because of their royal ancestors. My line of the royals ended up poor commoners in the US after fleeing religious persecution and siding with the colonies in the American Revolution. Our line goes directly back to Charlemagne. After finding that information, i googled and found information that almost everyone can claim to be a direct descendant of Charlemagne.

Hello Anna,
I am a new member of the forum and I have recently had DNA tests done to align with my family genealogy. On the results from NatGeo it listed a series of "famous" people that I have DNA matches to. A few are Queen Victoria and Marie Antoinette on my maternal line and King Richard III on both maternal and paternal lines. I have documented family tree data to early 1600s on some ancestors in England and some to mid 1500s. Is there a process to try to find the links from my records to these historical figures ? are there pedigrees from these people to recent times that can be studied ?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Kenny

[Future_king]

there are many monarchs who can claim descendance from Charlemagne through many ways. For example, Queen Elizabeth Windsor of Great Britain claims descendance 3 ways from Charlemagne. 2 from her father, and one from her mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. The lineage from her mother is:
1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14.Sir William Longespee
15. William Longespee
16. Ella Longespee
17. Sir Hugh I de Audley
18. Alice de Audley
19. Sir William de Greystoke
20. Sir Ralph de Greystoke
21. Joan de Greystoke
22. Sir William Bowes
23. Sir Ralph Bowes
24. Richard Bowes
25. Sir George Bowes
26. Thomas Bowes
27. Thomas Bowes
28. Sir William Bowes
29. Sir George Bowes
30. Mary Eleanor Bowes
31. Thomas Lyon-Bowes
32. Thomas George Lyon-Bowes
33. Claude Bowes-Lyon
34. Claude George Bowes-Lyon
35. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Queen Consort
36. Queen Elizabeth II of England

This is the least royal line. The most royal line is beneath:

1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14. John of England
15. Henry III of England
16. Edward I of England
17. Edward II of England
18. Edward III of England
20. Lionel of Antwerp
21. Phillipa Plantagenet
22. Roger Mortimer
23. Anne Mortimer
24. Richard Plantagenet
25. Edward IV of England
26. Elizabeth of York (Henry VII's wife)
27. Margaret Tudor
28. James V of Scotland
29. Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland
30. James VI and I of Scotland and England
31. Elizabeth Stuart, Queen of Bohemia
32. Sophia of Hanover
33. George I of Britain
34. George II of Britain
35. Frederick, Prince of Wales
36. George III of Britain
37. Prince Edward Augustus
38. Queen Victoria of Britain
39. Edward VIII of Britain
40. George V of Britain
41. George VI of Britain
42. Elizabeth II of Britain

the final one is a lineage from her grandmother, Mary of Teck.

1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14. Matilda of Saxony
15. Wilhelm of Braunschweig- Luneberg
16. Otto of Braunschweig-Luneberg
17. Adelheid of Braunschweig-Luneberg
18. Otto of the Hesse
19. Ludwig of the Hesse
20. Hermann of the Hesse
21. Heinrich of the Hesse
22. Elizabeth of the Hesse
23. Johann of Nassau-Dillenburg
24. William of Nassau-Dillenburg
25. Ernest Casimir of Nassau Dietz
26. William Frederick of Nassau-Dietz
27. Hendrik Casimir II of Nassau-Dietz
28. Johann Willem Friso of Nassau-Dietz
29. William IV of Nassau-orange
30. Caroline of Nassau-Orange
31. Henrietta of Nassau-Weilburg
32. Alexander of Wurttemberg
33. Franz of Teck
34. Mary of Teck
35. George VI of Britain
36. Elizabeth II of Britain

(Note: Elizabeth II has 3 other lines that would take to long to name so let me tell you them. The first line is from Mary of Teck's mother, a princess of Britain. The other line is the agnatic ancestor of Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg, father of George I of Britain. His agnatic ancestor was William of Winchester or William longsword, also an ancestor of Johann Willem Friso. William of Winchester was the grandson of Henry II of England. The third line is from Henry VII of England, the husband of Elizabeth of York, and father of Margaret Tudor. I am extremely sure she has others but this is what I found)

TELL ME IF YOU FIND MORE!!! AND ALSO IS ANNE OF BOHEMIA AND HUNGARY A DESCENDANT OF CHARLEMAGNE?

[Osipi]

I always like to throw this link into any discussion about having Charlemagne for an ancestor. I most likely do and so does everyone if they're of European descent. This really is an interesting link for me. Perhaps to find a real anomaly, we'd have to find a royal that's of European descent and *not* related to Charlemagne.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...dam-rutherford

[Future_king]

Originally Posted by mslewis

Goodness!! No wonder there has been so much crazy over the centuries in these royal families. Hopefully, no one will find anything about the Duchess of Cambridge being related to any royals. She's the last hope to clean up the British bloodlines.

what do you mean???

[Future_king]

Originally Posted by Future_king

there are many monarchs who can claim descendance from Charlemagne through many ways. For example, Queen Elizabeth Windsor of Great Britain claims descendance 3 ways from Charlemagne. 2 from her father, and one from her mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. The lineage from her mother is:
1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14.Sir William Longespee
15. William Longespee
16. Ella Longespee
17. Sir Hugh I de Audley
18. Alice de Audley
19. Sir William de Greystoke
20. Sir Ralph de Greystoke
21. Joan de Greystoke
22. Sir William Bowes
23. Sir Ralph Bowes
24. Richard Bowes
25. Sir George Bowes
26. Thomas Bowes
27. Thomas Bowes
28. Sir William Bowes
29. Sir George Bowes
30. Mary Eleanor Bowes
31. Thomas Lyon-Bowes
32. Thomas George Lyon-Bowes
33. Claude Bowes-Lyon
34. Claude George Bowes-Lyon
35. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Queen Consort
36. Queen Elizabeth II of England

This is the least royal line. The most royal line is beneath:

1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14. John of England
15. Henry III of England
16. Edward I of England
17. Edward II of England
18. Edward III of England
20. Lionel of Antwerp
21. Phillipa Plantagenet
22. Roger Mortimer
23. Anne Mortimer
24. Richard Plantagenet
25. Edward IV of England
26. Elizabeth of York (Henry VII's wife)
27. Margaret Tudor
28. James V of Scotland
29. Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland
30. James VI and I of Scotland and England
31. Elizabeth Stuart, Queen of Bohemia
32. Sophia of Hanover
33. George I of Britain
34. George II of Britain
35. Frederick, Prince of Wales
36. George III of Britain
37. Prince Edward Augustus
38. Queen Victoria of Britain
39. Edward VIII of Britain
40. George V of Britain
41. George VI of Britain
42. Elizabeth II of Britain

the final one is a lineage from her grandmother, Mary of Teck.

1. Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor
2. Pepin, King of Italy
3.Bernard of Italy
4. Herbert I of Vermandois
5. Herbert II of Vermandois
6. Robert of Vermandois
7. Adele of Meaux
8. Ermengarde of Anjou
9. Judith of Brittany
10. Robert I of Normandy
11. William I of England
12. Matilda, Empress of Germany
13. Henry II of England
14. Matilda of Saxony
15. Wilhelm of Braunschweig- Luneberg
16. Otto of Braunschweig-Luneberg
17. Adelheid of Braunschweig-Luneberg
18. Otto of the Hesse
19. Ludwig of the Hesse
20. Hermann of the Hesse
21. Heinrich of the Hesse
22. Elizabeth of the Hesse
23. Johann of Nassau-Dillenburg
24. William of Nassau-Dillenburg
25. Ernest Casimir of Nassau Dietz
26. William Frederick of Nassau-Dietz
27. Hendrik Casimir II of Nassau-Dietz
28. Johann Willem Friso of Nassau-Dietz
29. William IV of Nassau-orange
30. Caroline of Nassau-Orange
31. Henrietta of Nassau-Weilburg
32. Alexander of Wurttemberg
33. Franz of Teck
34. Mary of Teck
35. George VI of Britain
36. Elizabeth II of Britain

(Note: Elizabeth II has 3 other lines that would take to long to name so let me tell you them. The first line is from Mary of Teck's mother, a princess of Britain. The other line is the agnatic ancestor of Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg, father of George I of Britain. His agnatic ancestor was William of Winchester or William longsword, also an ancestor of Johann Willem Friso. William of Winchester was the grandson of Henry II of England. The third line is from Henry VII of England, the husband of Elizabeth of York, and father of Margaret Tudor. I am extremely sure she has others but this is what I found)

TELL ME IF YOU FIND MORE!!! AND ALSO IS ANNE OF BOHEMIA AND HUNGARY A DESCENDANT OF CHARLEMAGNE?

This is wrong. She has a ton of lines of descent

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Future_king

This is wrong. She has a ton of lines of descent

Halve of Europe and a bit abroad descends from Charlemagne,like more then halve of present Egypt descends from Ramses II...Oh well,they didn't have FB nor TRF at the time so that was their FB and TRF...

[Troy Thompson]

Originally Posted by lucien

Halve of Europe and a bit abroad descends from Charlemagne,like more then halve of present Egypt descends from Ramses II...Oh well,they didn't have FB nor TRF at the time so that was their FB and TRF...

A lot more than half of Europe descends from Charlemagne. It is closer to the reality to say that literally all people living today who are of modern European extraction (inclusive of people of European descent living in the parts of Africa, the Americas, Asia, Australia, and Oceania that were colonized by European powers or by the United States) are descended from Charlemagne. Three factors influence this: First, Charlemagne fathered 18 children. Second, 1,205 years have elapsed since Charlemagne died, which, if we aproximate a new generation for every 20 years, means that 60 generations have since been born. Third, the Black Death killed somewhere between 30% and 60% of the population of Europe in the span of four years during the mid-14th Century, which created a major population bottleneck among Europeans that homogenized the European gene pool to a nigh incomprehenisble degree. All of these three factors combined make it essentially impossible for anyone of European extraction today to not be a descendant of Charlemagne; in fact, the latter two factors make it unlikely that anyone of European descent living today is not a descendant of, basically, every person who lived in Europe in the 9th Century and has descendants who are living today.

[shaikhatif1987]

Originally Posted by HollyDolly

Well I'm curious how many children Charlemagne really had and the names of these children.I might have to go to Wikipedia or Google to try to search for their names out of curiosity. As you state the royal blood would be pretty well diluted by now whether from Charlemagne or someone else.My late father's family in Nuremberg has the family history book and found out by accident when searching for information that there is also a book on his family in the state archives in Hamburg. Whether we have any connection to Charlemange don't know.Certainly wouldn't make me Queen of France even if we were kin. Same goes if by some chance it turned out we we related in some ways to the Wittelsbach who ruled Bavaria or related to the Ducal family of Baden or even the Hapsburgs. Would be interesting ,but absolutely meaningless.

It cannot be said that you won’t be Queen of France, so long as you are a descendant, you are eligible to become a successor in case no one apart from you seeks to succeed

[shaikhatif1987]

Originally Posted by AthDara

Hello Anna,
I am a new member of the forum and I have recently had DNA tests done to align with my family genealogy. On the results from NatGeo it listed a series of "famous" people that I have DNA matches to. A few are Queen Victoria and Marie Antoinette on my maternal line and King Richard III on both maternal and paternal lines. I have documented family tree data to early 1600s on some ancestors in England and some to mid 1500s. Is there a process to try to find the links from my records to these historical figures ? are there pedigrees from these people to recent times that can be studied ?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Kenny

I wouldn’t have suggested DNA test because Royals usually dislike that , it’s just not suited, since you have a family tree data which is normally the case with us ,what you must and could do is research church records, burial records, land ownership records, school records, court records etc

There is a possibility that people don’t have family tree records but are descendants of Royal personalities.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Troy Thompson

A lot more than half of Europe descends from Charlemagne. It is closer to the reality to say that literally all people living today who are of modern European extraction (inclusive of people of European descent living in the parts of Africa, the Americas, Asia, Australia, and Oceania that were colonized by European powers or by the United States) are descended from Charlemagne. Three factors influence this: First, Charlemagne fathered 18 children. Second, 1,205 years have elapsed since Charlemagne died, which, if we aproximate a new generation for every 20 years, means that 60 generations have since been born. Third, the Black Death killed somewhere between 30% and 60% of the population of Europe in the span of four years during the mid-14th Century, which created a major population bottleneck among Europeans that homogenized the European gene pool to a nigh incomprehenisble degree. All of these three factors combined make it essentially impossible for anyone of European extraction today to not be a descendant of Charlemagne; in fact, the latter two factors make it unlikely that anyone of European descent living today is not a descendant of, basically, every person who lived in Europe in the 9th Century and has descendants who are living today.

A well known actor in the UK Danny Dyer was the subject of an ancestry programme called who do you think you are. It is a regular series on British tv. He is from the traditionally working class east end of London & found that he was descended from Edward III of England.

He was lucky because the programme discovered a gateway ancestor. Probably most if not all (at least western) European origin peoples are descended from Charlemagne. It's just a matter of finding proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaMyFe6sPRg

[janelarn]

I will remind you that both Queen Victoria and Prince Albert descend by non-main lines (not reigning royal families) of Elizabeth and Ferdinand, Catholic Kings through the German houses to which they belong.
Fernando I, Emperor of the Holy Roman Germanic Empire, had 15 children whose blood was mixed with the children of his brother, Carlos V, Emperor of SIRG, and with the other German families.
So the common ancestry in principle would be the Catholic kings.

[SirMarkAlanGreen]

reference: https://medievalfocusgroup.freeforum...al-explanation



regards,

Sir Mark Alan Green Direct descendant of Dagobert. The throne Pepin stole from Dagobert.

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by SirMarkAlanGreen

reference: https://medievalfocusgroup.freeforum...al-explanation

regards,

Sir Mark Alan Green Direct descendant of Dagobert. The throne Pepin stole from Dagobert.

I tried the link and the page won't load.

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by lucien

Halve of Europe and a bit abroad descends from Charlemagne,like more then halve of present Egypt descends from Ramses II...Oh well,they didn't have FB nor TRF at the time so that was their FB and TRF...

Most people in Europe descends from Royalty, especially Grandpa Charlemagne, the most famous celebrity descendant I believe is Brooke Shields.

And count me in for the Horus Herds! Per my last check on 23andme, that keeps constantly changing my dad's medieval roots, they added in more Mummy percentage on my last DNA recount. I already said in another post that I'll be buried with a toothbrush and croc sandals for the afterlife.

[EllieCat]

I have managed to trace my ancestors back to Charlemagne (via my Dutch side) and also I have worked out that QEII and I are 27th cousins once removed. HOWEVER I do believe there are millions and millions of people that can do the same thing so I'm special in no way whatsoever – but it does make a nice conversational device at parties

[lucien]

Originally Posted by EllieCat

I have managed to trace my ancestors back to Charlemagne (via my Dutch side) and also I have worked out that QEII and I are 27th cousins once removed. HOWEVER I do believe there are millions and millions of people that can do the same thing so I'm special in no way whatsoever – but it does make a nice conversational device at parties

Does it.As long as you don´t claim the Throne....

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by EllieCat

I have managed to trace my ancestors back to Charlemagne (via my Dutch side) and also I have worked out that QEII and I are 27th cousins once removed. HOWEVER I do believe there are millions and millions of people that can do the same thing so I'm special in no way whatsoever – but it does make a nice conversational device at parties

Awesome EllieCat! it's true that most Europeans probably descend from Charlemagne, but as you know, most can't show that descent. So it really IS interesting to be able to. I've found 4 main lines for myself as well. 2 are rather dubious, but 2 look good! You just need to find a gateway ancestor and then the rest is taken care of.