British Royal Family Genealogy

[Warren]

Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine

If Prince William ditches Kate Middleton in favor of Princess Marie-Caroline of Liechtenstein, then the whole thing can be put to rest . He'd have to wait a few years, however, since the Princess is only 14!

(that last part is a joke )

A putative eldest child of William and Marie-Caroline becoming the undisputed heir of both the Windsors and Jacobites would only work if the first-born was a son and Marie-Caroline's elder brother Prince Josef Wenzel died without issue.

As it currently stands, Josef Wenzel, future reigning Prince of Liechtenstein, will become the Jacobite 'claimant' following the deaths of the Bavarian Dukes Franz and Max and of his mother Hereditary Princess Sophie of Liechtenstein.

[HM Queen Catherine]

You never know, Warren.. after all this time, the Jacobites might just be satisfied with a marriage between their line and the Windsors
It would, after all, put another Stuart on the the throne.. eventually .. regardless of the fact that Josef Wenzel is the actual heir..

[HM Queen Catherine]

While sorting through my newspaper clippings recently, I noticed that in the engagement announcement for Tom Parker-Bowles that he was listed as a "scion of the Earls of Macclesfield".

This rather intrigued me - I had not paid much attention to it before - so I did some digging into the ancestry of Andrew Parker-Bowles, since he would be the descendant of the Earls of Macclesfield.

Of course, that was easy to trace and I found the Macclesfield connection, but

I also found out that Andrew is the first cousin of John Francis Bowes-Lyon, Fiona Bowes-Lyon Goodhart and David James Bowes-Lyon.

The three Bowes-Lyons are the children of Major-General Sir Francis James Bowes-Lyon, KB, and his wife Mary de Trafford. Lady Bowes-Lyon, is Andrew's maternal aunt - the sister of his mother Anne.

Maj-Gen. Sir Francis was the grandson of the Honourable Francis Bowes-Lyon, an older brother of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother.

This makes John Francis, Fiona and David James Bowes-Lyon, 3rd cousins of the Prince of Wales.

So it seems Charles and Andrew have more in common than just Camilla..

Was anyone else aware of this connection?

[Mermaid1962]

I think that I had read about about a connection between the Parker-Bowles and the Bowes-Lyons and that this is why Andrew Parker-Bowles was friendly with the Queen Mother.

Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine

So it seems Charles and Andrew have more in common than just Camilla..

Was anyone else aware of this connection?

[KittyAtlanta]

Is Parker-Bowles really hyphenated? I thought it was just plain "Parker Bowles."

I was unaware of the connection. Wonder why we hear nothing of the Bowes-Lyon side of the clan. There seem to be many Bowes-Lyon cousins of varying degree. Fiona, John and David must not desire any kind of limelight.

"So it seems Charles and Andrew have more in common than just Camilla.. " Didn't The Princess Royal have a relationship with Andrew Parker-Bowles???

[captainmooreway]

"So it seems Charles and Andrew have more in common than just Camilla.. " Didn't The Princess Royal have a relationship with Andrew Parker-Bowles???[/QUOTE]

She's had an alleged on-off affair with him over the years, although funnily enough the newspaper's usually report it at the same time every year- around Royal Ascot- when they spend time together.

[wymanda]

The Duchess of Kent's brother recently died from Huntington's Disease (Huntington's Correa). The obituaries indicate that he inherited the disease from his mother. Thankfully, the Duchess and her family are free of the gene.
Does anyone know of a family tree for the Duchess that would enable tracing of the Huntington's gene?

[oneofthem]

And here is another reason why most of us here have royal ancestry (but many don't have the documentation to prove it)....of all the people alive in the 1300's, only 10-15% have left descendants. The reasons why are simple...disease and high mortality rates. Most children didn't see their 5th birthday and those that did were lucky to live to 40. Then you have all the diseases which were rife at these times. The Black Plague wiped out over a third of the population of Europe....entire family lines were extinguished. The noble and royal classes, though affected by these events and such, were far less affected than the general populace. Their descendants managed to survive better than everyone else, hence all of us alive today.

[Wisteria]

I read once a very interesting book of a family who had existed and lived in the same area in a mansion in the north of England for a recorded almost 1000 years. The writer of the book said that the amazing thing about his family was that no one had really made any mark on history in that time. and that perhaps the most amazing ancestress was a lady who lived in the 17th century and had 16 children. Before you laugh at that,think about what he said next - every single one of those children survived, she did NOT lose even one. When one thinks about the disease and danger of those years that lady should be remembered with respect, she knew her work as mother very well.
Most family trees make for sad reading, my own husband´s grandfather´s diary was a list of children born and died within hours days and even years. Terrible.
There are many people who have their family tree very well recorded and can trace back without a doubt to the first Kings of Europe but they are mainly of people who still belong to the aristocratic classes, as unfortunately, they are the ones that took pride in their family and made sure it was all written down, not to be forgotten.
Once browsing I found a "fantastical" genealogy that said it proved that Queen Elizabeth II was a descendant of Anthony and Cleopatra.
If there is a claim of notable ancestors I prefer to be like St. Thomas, seeing (in this case the proven family tree) before believing.
I agree with oneofthem, the aristocrats were better fed and could avoid the plague and other ills better than the poor common people, hence their survival, although many Kings and Queens have gone down in history of dying in epidemics.

[Lenora]

I don't think the Queen is a descendant of Prophet Mohammed and Chingis-Han,it's a beautiful legend.And even less true is her connection to Vlad the Impaler(Dracula),she has no blood of him,as the last Romanian king had only German blood,they were invited to rule Romania

[oneofthem]

Originally Posted by Lenora

I don't think the Queen is a descendant of Prophet Mohammed and Chingis-Han,it's a beautiful legend.And even less true is her connection to Vlad the Impaler(Dracula),she has no blood of him,as the last Romanian king had only German blood,they were invited to rule Romania

Why...can you prove your assertion??. There's a great amount of genealogy that's been done by very learned historians and genealogist that would say otherwise. Just because the last Romanian King had German blood doesn't make QE II not a descendant of Vlad, or anyone else for that matter. William of Orange was Dutch, that doesn't mean the Queen isn't a relation of Ivan the Terrible. She is

Family lines branch off in all different directions...she doesn't have to be directly descended from Vlad to be a relative.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Lenora

....And even less true is her connection to Vlad the Impaler(Dracula),she has no blood of him,as the last Romanian king had only German blood,they were invited to rule Romania

The last Romanian King is irrelevant to HM's descent from, among many many others, the Voivodes of Valachia [Wallacia].

Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that Ilk, Albany Herald of Arms and President of the Association of Genealogists, detailed in "Royal Highness, Ancestry of the Royal Child" [Prince William], 1982, the line of descent (p101):

"Today, perhaps the most famous of [Prince Williams's] Romanian relations is Prince Vlad Dracula 'the Impaler', an ancestral uncle who took the surname of Dracula because his father Prince Vlad Dracul was proud to be a Knight of the Dragon."

The line of descent:

Mircea I the Old, Voivode of Valachia and Despot of the Dobrudja, d 1418
v
Vlad II Dracul, Voivode of Valacia 1430-46
v
Voivode Vlad IV the Monk d 1507 (natural brother of Voivode Vlad Dracula the Impaler who was slain 1476)
v
Radu IV the Great, Voivode of Valacia 1495-1508
etc to
Gregor, Baron Inczédy de Nagy-Várad, d 1816
v
Baroness Agnes Inczédy de Nagy-Várad (d 1856) m László, Count Rhédey de Kis-Rhéde, d 1835
v
Countess Claudine Rhédey de Kis-Rhéde, d 1841, m Duke Alexander of Württemberg, d 1885
v
Francis, Duke of Teck, d 1900, m Princess Mary Adelaide of Cambridge
v
Princess May of Teck, later Queen Mary, consort of George V, King of Great Britain, Emperor of India
etc

[Lenora]

Yes,thank you,but he is an ancestral uncle.But when I hear "descendant" I understand the direct descendant as "greatgrandgrand...son"

[AnnEliza]

Originally Posted by oneofthem

And here is another reason why most of us here have royal ancestry (but many don't have the documentation to prove it)....of all the people alive in the 1300's, only 10-15% have left descendants. The reasons why are simple...disease and high mortality rates. Most children didn't see their 5th birthday and those that did were lucky to live to 40. Then you have all the diseases which were rife at these times. The Black Plague wiped out over a third of the population of Europe....entire family lines were extinguished. The noble and royal classes, though affected by these events and such, were far less affected than the general populace. Their descendants managed to survive better than everyone else, hence all of us alive today.

Yes, evidently there are many many European and American (of European descent) who are descended from Edward III through John of Gaunt, who lived through the plague in the 14th century. I was able to trace my line to him, because my grandmother traced her lineage for the DAR, and there was a book published of one of her ancestors, tracing him back to England, etc.

[oneofthem]

Originally Posted by AnnEliza

Yes, evidently there are many many European and American (of European descent) who are descended from Edward III through John of Gaunt, who lived through the plague in the 14th century. I was able to trace my line to him, because my grandmother traced her lineage for the DAR, and there was a book published of one of her ancestors, tracing him back to England, etc.

Not just John of Gaunt....you also have descendants through Lionel of Antwerp and Edmund as well. I have a number of lines going to both Lionel and John.

Actually, the present Queen, by all rights, shouldn't be where she is...she is descended via several illegitimate offspring and quite a bit of skullduggery and/or downright usurpation. It all boiled down to who had parliament's backing and how much money they paid the pollies off with.

Plus, it's not just Europeans and Americans with descent from these people, either...despite the seemingly parochial focus on just Europe and America (mostly the US), there's just as many people of European and UK descent living outside of these two places as there are living in them, who can (if they manage to find the genealogical proof) claim descent from them. What about Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Brazil, Singapore, India, Malaysia, South Africa, Chile etc. Plenty of people of both European and UK descent in all those countries.

[AnnEliza]

Yes, I am aware of that, and meant to indicate all people of European descent.

[Lenora]

I 've read in Wikipedia that Princess Diana and Sarah Ferguson are direct descendants of Lady Georgiana via her illegitimate daughter from Lord Grey.I've never heard about Sarah's connections with this family.Is Diana direct descendant of her?
Who are Lady Georgiana's present day descendants?

[Marc23]

Yes,it's true...Almost half of aristocratic Britain today are descendants of Georgiana...

Sarah Margaret Ferguson had noble ancestors through her father and through her mother's side of the family...

Her father is a great-grandson of William,Duke of Buccheleuch and Queensberry(family of Alice,Duchess of Gloucester),descendant of Dukes of Abercorn,Dukes of Bedford...as well as descendant of King Charles II through his illegitimate son with Duchess de Kerouaille...

Her mother on the other hand is also a descendant of the Charles William,Duke of Buchleuch amd Queensberry which makes her related to her husband,Sarah's father and of course,with Dukes of Gloucester...
Her mother is also a descendant of the famous Duke of Marlborough,Dukes of Argyll,Dukes of Montagu and so on...

[Grandduchess24]

Weren't prince Charles of wales and princess Diana cousins in some way ?

And weren't princess Diana cousins with the ex duchess of York, Sarah ferguson through lady Georgiana Spencer,duchess of Devonshire?

[Leslie2006]

Yes, they were. Check out the 'royal cousins' thread. To keep it short, Diana was a legitimate descendant through Georgiana's only son, while Sarah is an illegitimate descendant through Georgiana's daughter, Eliza - the result of Georgiana's affair with Charles Grey.