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03-21-2020, 06:22 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bellevue, United States
Posts: 1,504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
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Only distantly.
Queen Marie Jose's great-grandfather King Leopold I of the Belgians was Queen Victoria's uncle.
Queen Margherita's great-grandmother Queen Caroline of Bavaria was a sister of Prince Philip's 3x great-grandmother Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse.
Other connections:
Princess Mafalda's husband Philipp of Hesse was a great-grandson of Queen Victoria. His brother Christoph married Prince Philip's sister Sophia of Greece.
Queen Elena's brother Crown Prince Danilo of Montenegro married Jutta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, a granddaughter of Queen Mary's beloved aunt Augusta Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz.
Her niece Helen of Serbia married Prince Ivan of Russia. Ivan's aunt Queen Olga of Greece was Prince Philip's grandmother.
Princess Maria Pia's first husband Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia was the nephew of Marina Duchess of Kent.
The Savoy-Aosta branch has more connections:
Emmanuel Philibert Duke of Aosta married Helene of Orleans who had been courted by Prince Albert Victor Duke of Clarence and Avondale.
Their son Aimone Duke of Aosta married Irene of Greece, a great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria and first cousin to Prince Philip.
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03-21-2020, 06:53 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 3,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
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Marie-José and the BRF are related though the Coburgs of Germany.
Mafalda, may she rest in peace, was Philip's sister Sophie's sister-in-law, though I'm sure she was more closely related somehow.
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03-21-2020, 11:41 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, United States
Posts: 834
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Every time I see this chart I wonder why the Michael Kents children are listed but not the higher-ranked Gloucesters or even the Duke's.
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09-08-2020, 02:19 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2
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I've searched this thread and can't seem to find what I'm looking for, but apologies if I've missed it. Regarding the 28-year relationship between Prince Edward, Duke of Strathearn (Queen Victoria's father), and his French mistress Madame Julie de Saint-Laurent in Canada, biographer Mollie Gillen reportedly gained access to the Royal Archives before she died in 2009. The RA does not list any children of the union between Edward and Julie, and everything I can find online says this effectively closes the case - that rumours of living descendants from the union are simply fantasy.
My questions are thus:
Would the RA categorically, unquestionably, have recorded these descendants despite the fact that they all would have been older than Victoria?
In theory, would the RA not simply omit information it did not think was of benefit to the royal bloodline?
After all, Victoria's legitimacy has already come into question over the spread of haemophilia among her descendants (I am NOT claiming she isn't Edward's daughter, nor am I claiming the royal line, even if it was illegitimate, should have anyone else on the throne but QEII, only referencing the controversy).
Basically, for the sake of genealogy research, I'm curious, how much can we trust the accuracy of Royal Archive information, if that information might be detrimental to the sanctity of the royal line or Royal Family itself?
If you've researched the claims of illegitimate children born of Prince Edward and Saint-Laurent's union in Canada and have anything else to offer, my curious mind would be grateful for your insight.
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09-08-2020, 04:17 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraS3514
Every time I see this chart I wonder why the Michael Kents children are listed but not the higher-ranked Gloucesters or even the Duke's.
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Listed higher where exactly?
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09-08-2020, 05:22 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
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Well, Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda of Savoy are 6th cousins once removed. They both descended from Savoy dynasty.
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09-08-2020, 07:45 PM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,262
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The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
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09-08-2020, 08:27 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H
The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
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Interestingly, David Cameron (Former British Prime Minister) descends from King William IV and his mistress Dorothea Jordan through their illegitimate daughter Lady Elizabeth FitzClarence (later Elizabeth Hay, Countess of Erroll). David Cameron is the fourth great-grandson (great, great, great, great grandson) of Countess of Erroll. This makes Cameron fifth cousin twice removed to Queen Elizabeth II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_David_Cameron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizab...tess_of_Erroll
From Channel 4 website: https://www.channel4.com/news/articl...s/3658767.html
William IV --> Lady Elizabeth FitzClarence --> Lady Agnes Hay --> Lady Agnes Cecil Emmeline Duff --> Stephanie Agnes Cooper --> Enid Agnes Maud Levita --> Ian Donald Cameron --> David Cameron
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09-09-2020, 09:24 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23
Well, Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda of Savoy are 6th cousins once removed. They both descended from Savoy dynasty.
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Princess Michael of Kent descended from Savoy dynasty??? I did not know this.
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09-09-2020, 05:23 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly
Princess Michael of Kent descended from Savoy dynasty??? I did not know this.
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Yes, both Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda descended from Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano and his wife Princess Christine of Hessen-Rheinfels-Rotenburg, who were also parents of Princess de Lamballe.
Here is her line:
Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano (1721-1778)
I
Princess Gabrielle of Savoy-Carignano (1748-1828)
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Prince Franz Josef von Lobkowicz (1772-1816)
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Princess Gabrielle von Lobkowicz (1793-1863)
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Prince Vincenz Carl von Auersperg (1816-1867)
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Princess Marie Gabrielle Eleonore von Auersperg (1855-1933)
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Princess Marie Hedwig von Windisch-Graetz (1878-1918)
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Countess Marianne Szápáry de Muraszombat (1911-1988)
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Princess Michael of Kent (b.1945)
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09-09-2020, 11:17 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bellevue, United States
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Through her Savoy line, Princess Michael is also a direct descendant of King Philip II of Spain and his third wife Elisabeth, daughter of King Henry II of France and Catherine de Medici.
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09-10-2020, 12:03 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin
Through her Savoy line, Princess Michael is also a direct descendant of King Philip II of Spain and his third wife Elisabeth, daughter of King Henry II of France and Catherine de Medici.
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True.
Another interesting fact is that Princess Michael of Kent and Queen Elizabeth II (also Prince Michael of Kent) have both descended from Prince Ferdinand August von Lobkowicz (1655-1715) and Princess Maria Anna Wilhelmina von Baden-Baden (1655-1701).
Princess Michael of Kent has descended from their eldest daughter Princess Eleonore Amalie Magdalene von Schwarzenberg, famously known as "The Vampire Princess" (1682-1741).
While Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Michael of Kent have descended from her younger sister Princess Maria Ludovika von Thurn und Taxis (1683-1750)
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09-10-2020, 03:04 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H
The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
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Thank you, Alison! I think you're probably right, but I've wondered whether or not the Royal Archives can be manipulated by various monarchs and their teams, I guess. like, say, a hyper-conservative whose own courtiers wouldn't even tell her that hemophilia was genetic in the maternal line.
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09-10-2020, 04:42 PM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23
Yes, both Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda descended from Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano and his wife Princess Christine of Hessen-Rheinfels-Rotenburg, who were also parents of Princess de Lamballe.
Here is her line:
Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano (1721-1778)
I
Princess Gabrielle of Savoy-Carignano (1748-1828)
I
Prince Franz Josef von Lobkowicz (1772-1816)
I
Princess Gabrielle von Lobkowicz (1793-1863)
I
Prince Vincenz Carl von Auersperg (1816-1867)
I
Princess Marie Gabrielle Eleonore von Auersperg (1855-1933)
I
Princess Marie Hedwig von Windisch-Graetz (1878-1918)
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Countess Marianne Szápáry de Muraszombat (1911-1988)
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Princess Michael of Kent (b.1945)
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Thank you very much for the family tree!
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12-10-2020, 05:59 AM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968
Interestingly, David Cameron (Former British Prime Minister) descends from King William IV and his mistress Dorothea Jordan through their illegitimate daughter Lady Elizabeth FitzClarence (later Elizabeth Hay, Countess of Erroll). David Cameron is the fourth great-grandson (great, great, great, great grandson) of Countess of Erroll. This makes Cameron fifth cousin twice removed to Queen Elizabeth II.
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I don't know if it has been said as i'm new to the forum, but
Current Prime Minister Boris, is also a fifth cousin three times removed to Queen Elizabeth II and 8th cousins to his predecessor Cameron.
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12-11-2020, 09:43 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: philadelphia, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMXC
I don't know if it has been said as i'm new to the forum, but
Current Prime Minister Boris, is also a fifth cousin three times removed to Queen Elizabeth II and 8th cousins to his predecessor Cameron.
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It is known. There was an episode of "Who do you think you are?" in which it was revealed that Boris Johnson is descendant of Prince Paul von Württemberg, son of King Friedrich I von Württemberg and also descendant of King George II of Great Britain, who is also ancestor of David Cameron.
Queen Elizabeth II is descendant of King Friedrich's younger brother Duke Ludwig Friedrich Alexander von Württemberg and his wife Princess Henriette von Nassau-Weilburg.
This is his closest connection to the Queen. But, as a descendant from the royal House of Württemberg, he is related to almost every royal in Europe.
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04-21-2021, 02:48 PM
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Newbie
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
I'm interested in French-Canadian genealogy (particularly Quebec) and when I was at Ancestry.com I read Camilla shares ancestors with... Celine Dion and Madonna.
A fuller explanation of Camilla's genealogy can be found at www.wargs.com/royal/camilla.html
I wonder if, because of the scarcity of early settlers in Quebec, if Camilla and I might be related. Maybe that explains my "Material Girl" tendencies! :)
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This website will be very helpful in your research
https://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/geneal...er.aspx?lng=en
Cheers!
__________________
Benoît Rex
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ancestry, british royal family, china, corbyn, countess of errol, crusades, descent, duke of edinburgh, edward iii, elizabeth ii, genealogy, haldane, marie bonaparte, napoleon, prince philip, prince william, queen elizabeth (the queen mother), queen elizabeth the queen mother, royal monarch line of succession heirs, stewart, tang dynasty  |
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