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  #501  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly View Post
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
Only distantly.

Queen Marie Jose's great-grandfather King Leopold I of the Belgians was Queen Victoria's uncle.

Queen Margherita's great-grandmother Queen Caroline of Bavaria was a sister of Prince Philip's 3x great-grandmother Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse.

Other connections:

Princess Mafalda's husband Philipp of Hesse was a great-grandson of Queen Victoria. His brother Christoph married Prince Philip's sister Sophia of Greece.

Queen Elena's brother Crown Prince Danilo of Montenegro married Jutta of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, a granddaughter of Queen Mary's beloved aunt Augusta Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz.

Her niece Helen of Serbia married Prince Ivan of Russia. Ivan's aunt Queen Olga of Greece was Prince Philip's grandmother.

Princess Maria Pia's first husband Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia was the nephew of Marina Duchess of Kent.

The Savoy-Aosta branch has more connections:

Emmanuel Philibert Duke of Aosta married Helene of Orleans who had been courted by Prince Albert Victor Duke of Clarence and Avondale.

Their son Aimone Duke of Aosta married Irene of Greece, a great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria and first cousin to Prince Philip.
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  #502  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly View Post
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
Marie-José and the BRF are related though the Coburgs of Germany.

Mafalda, may she rest in peace, was Philip's sister Sophie's sister-in-law, though I'm sure she was more closely related somehow.
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  #503  
Old 03-21-2020, 10:41 PM
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Every time I see this chart I wonder why the Michael Kents children are listed but not the higher-ranked Gloucesters or even the Duke's.
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  #504  
Old 09-08-2020, 01:19 PM
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I've searched this thread and can't seem to find what I'm looking for, but apologies if I've missed it. Regarding the 28-year relationship between Prince Edward, Duke of Strathearn (Queen Victoria's father), and his French mistress Madame Julie de Saint-Laurent in Canada, biographer Mollie Gillen reportedly gained access to the Royal Archives before she died in 2009. The RA does not list any children of the union between Edward and Julie, and everything I can find online says this effectively closes the case - that rumours of living descendants from the union are simply fantasy.

My questions are thus:
Would the RA categorically, unquestionably, have recorded these descendants despite the fact that they all would have been older than Victoria?
In theory, would the RA not simply omit information it did not think was of benefit to the royal bloodline?
After all, Victoria's legitimacy has already come into question over the spread of haemophilia among her descendants (I am NOT claiming she isn't Edward's daughter, nor am I claiming the royal line, even if it was illegitimate, should have anyone else on the throne but QEII, only referencing the controversy).
Basically, for the sake of genealogy research, I'm curious, how much can we trust the accuracy of Royal Archive information, if that information might be detrimental to the sanctity of the royal line or Royal Family itself?

If you've researched the claims of illegitimate children born of Prince Edward and Saint-Laurent's union in Canada and have anything else to offer, my curious mind would be grateful for your insight.
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  #505  
Old 09-08-2020, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
Every time I see this chart I wonder why the Michael Kents children are listed but not the higher-ranked Gloucesters or even the Duke's.
Listed higher where exactly?
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  #506  
Old 09-08-2020, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princeofitaly View Post
Is the British Royal Family related to any of the members of italian Royal Family, the Savoy 's dynasty (especially related to Princess Mafalda of Savoy-Hesse, Queen Marie José of Belgium last Queen of Italy, Queen Elena, etc.)?
Well, Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda of Savoy are 6th cousins once removed. They both descended from Savoy dynasty.
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  #507  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:45 PM
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The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
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  #508  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
Interestingly, David Cameron (Former British Prime Minister) descends from King William IV and his mistress Dorothea Jordan through their illegitimate daughter Lady Elizabeth FitzClarence (later Elizabeth Hay, Countess of Erroll). David Cameron is the fourth great-grandson (great, great, great, great grandson) of Countess of Erroll. This makes Cameron fifth cousin twice removed to Queen Elizabeth II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_David_Cameron

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizab...tess_of_Erroll

From Channel 4 website: https://www.channel4.com/news/articl...s/3658767.html

William IV --> Lady Elizabeth FitzClarence --> Lady Agnes Hay --> Lady Agnes Cecil Emmeline Duff --> Stephanie Agnes Cooper --> Enid Agnes Maud Levita --> Ian Donald Cameron --> David Cameron
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  #509  
Old 09-09-2020, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Well, Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda of Savoy are 6th cousins once removed. They both descended from Savoy dynasty.
Princess Michael of Kent descended from Savoy dynasty??? I did not know this.
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  #510  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by princeofitaly View Post
Princess Michael of Kent descended from Savoy dynasty??? I did not know this.
Yes, both Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda descended from Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano and his wife Princess Christine of Hessen-Rheinfels-Rotenburg, who were also parents of Princess de Lamballe.


Here is her line:

Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano (1721-1778)
I
Princess Gabrielle of Savoy-Carignano (1748-1828)
I
Prince Franz Josef von Lobkowicz (1772-1816)
I
Princess Gabrielle von Lobkowicz (1793-1863)
I
Prince Vincenz Carl von Auersperg (1816-1867)
I
Princess Marie Gabrielle Eleonore von Auersperg (1855-1933)
I
Princess Marie Hedwig von Windisch-Graetz (1878-1918)
I
Countess Marianne Szápáry de Muraszombat (1911-1988)
I
Princess Michael of Kent (b.1945)
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  #511  
Old 09-09-2020, 10:17 PM
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Through her Savoy line, Princess Michael is also a direct descendant of King Philip II of Spain and his third wife Elisabeth, daughter of King Henry II of France and Catherine de Medici.
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  #512  
Old 09-10-2020, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Through her Savoy line, Princess Michael is also a direct descendant of King Philip II of Spain and his third wife Elisabeth, daughter of King Henry II of France and Catherine de Medici.
True.

Another interesting fact is that Princess Michael of Kent and Queen Elizabeth II (also Prince Michael of Kent) have both descended from Prince Ferdinand August von Lobkowicz (1655-1715) and Princess Maria Anna Wilhelmina von Baden-Baden (1655-1701).

Princess Michael of Kent has descended from their eldest daughter Princess Eleonore Amalie Magdalene von Schwarzenberg, famously known as "The Vampire Princess" (1682-1741).

While Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Michael of Kent have descended from her younger sister Princess Maria Ludovika von Thurn und Taxis (1683-1750)
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  #513  
Old 09-10-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
The Duke of Clarence, Edward's brother and the future William IV, had 10 illegitimate children with his long-term mistress. They were openly acknowledged and used the surname Fitzclarence. So, if Edward and Julie had had any children, I doubt it would have been kept secret. AFAIK she had no children with her husband either, so it seems likely that she wasn't able to have children.
Thank you, Alison! I think you're probably right, but I've wondered whether or not the Royal Archives can be manipulated by various monarchs and their teams, I guess. like, say, a hyper-conservative whose own courtiers wouldn't even tell her that hemophilia was genetic in the maternal line.
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  #514  
Old 09-10-2020, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Yes, both Princess Michael of Kent and Princess Mafalda descended from Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano and his wife Princess Christine of Hessen-Rheinfels-Rotenburg, who were also parents of Princess de Lamballe.


Here is her line:

Prince Luigi Vittorio of Savoy-Carignano (1721-1778)
I
Princess Gabrielle of Savoy-Carignano (1748-1828)
I
Prince Franz Josef von Lobkowicz (1772-1816)
I
Princess Gabrielle von Lobkowicz (1793-1863)
I
Prince Vincenz Carl von Auersperg (1816-1867)
I
Princess Marie Gabrielle Eleonore von Auersperg (1855-1933)
I
Princess Marie Hedwig von Windisch-Graetz (1878-1918)
I
Countess Marianne Szápáry de Muraszombat (1911-1988)
I
Princess Michael of Kent (b.1945)

Thank you very much for the family tree!
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