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  #401  
Old 05-06-2017, 06:13 PM
Aristocracy
 
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I read the article long before you posted it.
It was interesting.

I remember seeing a question I posted asking if HM The Queen is related to Leka II of Albania.
What about Diana?
And is Diana related to any Kings of France, Spain or Russia?
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  #402  
Old 05-06-2017, 06:45 PM
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Diana is descended from King Charles II of England through his illegitimate sons Henry Ist Duke of Grafton and Charles, 1st Duke of Richmond.

http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/col...art-ancestors/

Charles II's mother, Henrietta Maria, was the daughter of Henry IV, King of France, and his wife Mary who was the daughter of Francis, Grand Duke of Tuscany.
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  #403  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?
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  #404  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?
There are a lot of free genealogical databases. You can find the answer youself.
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  #405  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:36 PM
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Maybe someone here can answer and clarify a question I have. What is the difference between being related and being descended from?

I'm thinking that cousins 36 times removed would show that they have an ancestor in common but aren't really related in the normal sense of the world. Such as Diana was descended from Charles II's bastard but that doesn't mean she's related to him.

This is puzzling me. I'm not much of a genealogist at all and just wondering.
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  #406  
Old 05-07-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Maybe someone here can answer and clarify a question I have. What is the difference between being related and being descended from?

I'm thinking that cousins 36 times removed would show that they have an ancestor in common but aren't really related in the normal sense of the world. Such as Diana was descended from Charles II's bastard but that doesn't mean she's related to him.

This is puzzling me. I'm not much of a genealogist at all and just wondering.


Example: The Queen is related to Edward VIII, but she is descended from George VI.


Edward is someone who she has a direct family relation with (his father is her grandfather), but George is someone who is in her direct ancestry.

You are related to everyone you descend from, but you're not descended from everyone you're related to.

Charles II is most definitely someone Diana was related to, as he was a direct ancestor that she descended from. It's not a close relation - I think she's something like Charles' 7x great-granddaughter.
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  #407  
Old 05-07-2017, 01:13 PM
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British Royal Family Genealogy

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?


Diana's grandmother, Lady Cynthia Hamilton (wife of Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer), was the granddaughter of Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe, who herself was the daughter of Richard Curzon-Howe, 1st Earl Howe (of the 2nd creation).

She is more closely related to the 6th Earl than the 7th Earl (and present) though Mary Anna was born from the second marriage of the 1st Earl, and the Earldom descended through the sons of his first marriage. However, one of the granddaughters through the second marriage married the 5th Earl, and was mother to the 6th, making it a closer relation to the Spencers. The 7th Earl is the first cousin of the 6th, and so is not descended from the 1st Earl's second marriage.

That got complicated....
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  #408  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
There are a lot of free genealogical databases. You can find the answer youself.
I have tried to Google some, but have had no luck.
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  #409  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Diana's grandmother, Lady Cynthia Hamilton (wife of Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer), was the granddaughter of Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe, who herself was the daughter of Richard Curzon-Howe, 1st Earl Howe (of the 2nd creation).

She is more closely related to the 6th Earl than the 7th Earl (and present) though Mary Anna was born from the second marriage of the 1st Earl, and the Earldom descended through the sons of his first marriage. However, one of the granddaughters through the second marriage married the 5th Earl, and was mother to the 6th, making it a closer relation to the Spencers. The 7th Earl is the first cousin of the 6th, and so is not descended from the 1st Earl's second marriage.

That got complicated....
Yes it did!
Sounds like a soap opera!
Sorry for asking so many questions.
But what are some interesting Italian noble/royal characters the BRF is related to?
And is the BRF related to Louis XIV, King of France?
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  #410  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:04 PM
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I read an article that said Prince William is related to the Boleyn family through 3 separate lines.
One (or all three) being from Mary Boleyn (Anne's sister).
Can anyone tell me how true this is?
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  #411  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:22 PM
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I'm sorry for all my questions. But I have two more.

I read many years ago that either The Queen or Prince William (through his mother) is a cousin of PM David Cameron. Is there any truth to this?
And is Prince William related to Winston Churchill somehow (I know that his mother is related to the Churchills)?
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  #412  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:04 PM
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Without knowing the answer but if his mother is related, he is related too
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  #413  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:47 PM
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One thing that I think really had a huge effect on England and its peerage and bloodlines was the Black Death. Starting in 1348, its been stated that 30,000 of the estimated population of 70,000 was wiped out. The plague was to be a pandemic in England for several more centuries.

It stands to reason that those most likely to survive and live to propagate the bloodlines were the peers and the aristocrats having better access to uncontaminated food, better sanitation habits and more likely to be able to isolate themselves on their estates and quarantine the area.

The Black Death in England 1348-50

The last great plague hit London in 1665 through 1666. ""The Great Plague, lasting from 1665 to 1666, was the last major epidemic of the bubonic plague to occur in England. ... The Great Plague killed an estimated 100,000 people - almost a quarter of London's population - in 18 months."

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Guess who was king at the time and fathered so many illegitimate children. Yeps. Charles II. Once again, the royals, the aristocrats, the peers and those close to the throne had a better chance of survival. Its not hard then to imagine how many people could trace their lineage back to Charles II in the illegitimate lines.

Perhaps one of the most interesting things I've come across as information for bloodlines is that *anyone* with even slight European ancestry can probably trace their family tree back to Charlemagne. Even the royals. Even the aristocrats and the peers and perhaps a lot of us here at TRF. This is an interesting article about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...dam-rutherford
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  #414  
Old 05-08-2017, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
I'm sorry for all my questions. But I have two more.

I read many years ago that either The Queen or Prince William (through his mother) is a cousin of PM David Cameron. Is there any truth to this?
And is Prince William related to Winston Churchill somehow (I know that his mother is related to the Churchills)?
Yes, through his mother as you already stated, William is related to the Churchill family. Very distantly.

The 3rd Earl of Sunderland is common ancestor to both. The earls later became dukes of Marlborough. Winston was the grandson of the 7th Duke. Diana's family is descended from the third son of the 3rd Earl. The third son, his son was made 1st Earl Spencer. That is the family Diana comes from.

David Cameron and his wife are both said to be distant cousins of the queen. I think 11th cousin is closest, one through William IV and the other Charles II. Samantha is via marriage, a member of the Astor family. Both her stepfather, and her mothers stepfather were Astors. Makes her stepfather abd step grandfather both distantly related to Harry Lopez (camillas son in law) who is an Astor on his mothers side.


As for the boelyn

Diana is descended from Mary through her daughter Catherine Carrey. A several time great granddaughter married into the Spencer family and us Diana's ancestress.

Charles is as well through the queen mum.
https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/m...-elizabeth-ii/
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  #415  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Yes it did!
Sounds like a soap opera!
Sorry for asking so many questions.
But what are some interesting Italian noble/royal characters the BRF is related to?
And is the BRF related to Louis XIV, King of France?
I haven't really studied the geneology of Italian nobility or Royalty. so I couldn't say how they're related. That said, for most houses it's not so much an issue of "if" they're related but "how" they're related.

The Spencers are descended from the Medici family.

The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are descended from 26 French monarchs. So, again, it's not so much a matter of if they're related, but how. I don't have the how though... I could say that the Queen and DoE are both descended from Charles VII of France, and both Charles VII and Louis XIV are descended from Louis IX of France.
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  #416  
Old 05-08-2017, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
I read an article that said Prince William is related to the Boleyn family through 3 separate lines.
One (or all three) being from Mary Boleyn (Anne's sister).
Can anyone tell me how true this is?
The Queen is descended from Mary Boleyn's daughter Catherine:
  • Elizabeth II
  • Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
  • Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
  • Reverend Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
  • Lt.-Col. Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
  • Dorothy Cavendish
  • Charlotte Boyle, 6th Baroness Clifford
  • Richard Boyle, 4th Earl of Cork
  • Charles Boyle, 3rd Earl of Cork
  • Jane Seymour
  • Frances Devereux
  • Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
  • Lettice Knollys
  • Catherine Carey
  • Mary Boleyn


Diana is also descended is from Mary Boleyn's daughter Catherine:

  • Diana Spencer
  • John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
  • Cynthia Hamilton
  • Rosaline Bingham
  • Charles Bingham, 4th Earl of Lucan
  • Anne Brudenell
  • Robert Brudenell, 6th Earl of Cardigan
  • Robert Brudenell
  • Elizabeth Bruce
  • Elizabeth Seymour
  • Henry Seymour, Lord Beauchamp
  • Frances Devereux
  • Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
  • Lettice Knollys
  • Catherine Carey
  • Mary Boleyn


And Diana is descended from Mary's son, Henry:

  • Diana Spencer
  • John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
  • Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer
  • Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer
  • Vice-Admiral Frederick Spencer, 4th Earl Spencer
  • George Spencer, 2nd Earl Spencer
  • Margaret Georgiana Poyntz
  • Anne Maria Mordaunt
  • Brig.-Gen. Hon. Lewis Mordaunt
  • John Mordaunt, 1st Viscount Mordaunt of Avalon
  • Elizabeth Howard
  • William Howard, 3rd Baron Howard of Effingham
  • Katherine Carey
  • Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hundson of Hundson
  • Mary Boleyn
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  #417  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:43 PM
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Which of the Medicis are the Spencers descended from?
And are the Spencers related to any non-reigning royal houses?

I don't know if my questions are off-topic or not, but I'll post them here--just in case someone may know the answers.

Also, are the Royal Family TRULY descended from the Tang Dynasty emperors, or is that still unproven?

Also, is The Queen descended from Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire? I know that she is the Princess of Wales' 4x great-aunt though, but I want to know about if The Queen is descended from her.

I'm currently learning about the Earls Bessborough. Are any members of the BRF descended from them? Specifically Diana, Princess Michael or The Queen.
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  #418  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Also, is The Queen descended from Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire? I know that she is the Princess of Wales' 4x great-aunt though, but I want to know about if The Queen is descended from her.
If i'm not mistaken she's an ancestor of Sarah Ferguson, but i don't think HM is a direct descendent...

Im sure someone can explain better, but Georgiana Cavendish was married to the 5th duke of Devonshire whose father was the 4th duke of Devonshire. The 4th duke also had a daughter Dorothy (a.o.) and through her he is the great-great-great-great grandfather of Queen Elizabeth II (via Q.Elizabeth, the queen mother's side of the family)
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  #419  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Which of the Medicis are the Spencers descended from?
And are the Spencers related to any non-reigning royal houses?

I don't know if my questions are off-topic or not, but I'll post them here--just in case someone may know the answers.
The Spencers are descended from Charles II of England and Scotland, whose mother was Henrietta Maria of France, giving the Spencers a good number of very distant non-reigning royal relatives.

It's through Henrietta Maria that the Spencers descend from the Medicis; her mother was one Maria de' Medici, whose father was Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany who was the son of Cosimo I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany. There's a couple lines from Cosimo I...

  1. Cosimo I
  2. Giovanni dalle Bande Nere
  3. Giovanni il Popolano
  4. Pierfrancesco the Elder
  5. Lorenzo the Elder
  6. Giovanni di Bicci de' Medici
  7. Averardo de' Medici
  8. Salvestro de' Medici Chiarissimo
Averardo was the founder of the Medici bank, and I believe the first Medici we typically care about from a historical point of view.


Cosimo I also descended from Medici's through his mother:
  1. Cosimo I
  2. Maria Salviati
  3. Lucrezia de' Medici
  4. Lorenzo de' Medici
  5. Piero di Cosmo de' Medici
  6. Cosimo de' Medici
  7. Giovanni di Bicci de' Medici (#6 on the paternal line)
I believe Diana's most recent royal ancestor is Charles II (and his brother James, who Diana is also descended from) that most of Diana's Continental European royal/noble ancestry comes from - and even then, it's not entirely "recent". Charles was I believe Diana's father's 7x great grandfather. So her family really isn't closely related to any foreign royals, reigning or non, other than through marriage. Charles is actually more likely to be more closely related to them, as most European royals descend from Johan William Friso, Prince of Orange, who was born 2 years after Charles II died.
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  #420  
Old 05-17-2017, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Also, are the Royal Family TRULY descended from the Tang Dynasty emperors, or is that still unproven?
The lineage that's been posted on this thread that connects the Tang Dynasty to the House of Windsor is problematic... there are a few connections that it seems cannot be verified. I doubt it'll ever be proven.
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