Succession issues in the Royal Family of Jordan

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by lynn@Jan 14th, 2004 - 7:06 pm
If Hamzah is to succeed King Abdullah, is there any law or stipulations made by King Hussein that states that the King can abdicate at any time he feels Hamzah is ready or does Hamzah succeed when King Abdullah dies?

King can abdicate whenever he wants. According to the Jordanian constitution, it is the eldest son who succeeds, unless the King stipulates otherwise.

S

[shannen26]

Sean, I can tell u that Ali , from what friends who have met him tell me, is a nice guy, not at all as ppl here are describing him, he does care for J ppl, -as for the girls, whenever he goes , even to a restaurant or a shop, girls do throw themselves at him, he's always nice at them, what could he do, friends of him say he's loyal, caring, tolerant, I read what 1 of them wrote him in a thanx note- he thanked Ali for being such a good friend, as for Hamzah, I know that even Jppl who wrote in the old forum thought he was ok, - anyway, I saw Ali in person ,in London, he looked so ordinary, down to earth. I think u all consider the Hashemites as a kind of King Louis XIV and his Family.

[Asma2]

Hamzah will never be a king. I agree. Rania will take care of that because she would get sweet revenge and she know it.

[alia_musallam]

I don't think its about his brother giving him the chance more than him actually stepping up and seizing the chance... he has to first prove that he has the ambition, determination and self-discipline to make something of himself.

[shannen26]

I'm sure he has all those, self- discipline, ambition, skills, charme, talent, everything he needs to have an important role.

[Sean.~]

Deleted

[pegassuss2525]

I'd like to thank Alia for giving her veiws on Prince Hasan and Princess Sarvath. We all have different views. At least listen to someone's opinion and don't dismiss it as backwards or wrong simply because they don't agree with you. Personally I don't like Sarvath yet I was not aware of how deeply she was involved in the improvement of the schools. I always thought that her involvement was mainly that of a figurehead. Thank you Alia for letting me know otherwise. Being open minded also means that it is understood that not everyone will be in agreement.

[alia_musallam]

If anyone is particularly interested just read her page on the majlis el hassan website, then you can find out exactly what she is/has been involved in doing and the depth of her involvement.

[wymanda]

I came across King Hussein's letter to Prince Hassan which was posted on another thread. Not being able to quote from one thread to another I will post what I thought were the relevant parts.

Regarding Queen Noor:

As for Noor, she brought happiness to me and cared for me during my illness, with the utmost loving affection. She, the Jordanian, who belongs to this country with every fibre of her being, holds her head high in the defence and service of this country's interest. She is the mother who devotes all her efforts to her family. We have grown together in soul and mind, and she has had to endure a great deal of hardship to ensure that I was being attended to. And she, like me, also endured much anxiety and many shocks, but always placed her faith in God and hid her tears behind smiles. She also has not escaped the attempts of criticism. Why not? [Because there are] climbers who want to reach for the summit, and when the fever was getting high some people thought it was their chance.

Prince Hamzah:

Hamzeh, may God give him long life, has been envied since childhood because he was close to me, and because he wanted to know all matters large and small, and all details of the history of his family. He wanted to know about the struggle of his brothers and of his countrymen. I have been touched by his devotion to his country and by his integrity and magnanimity as he stayed beside me, not moving unless I forced him from time to time to carry out some duty on occasions that did not exceed the fingers on one hand. That is how Hamzeh Ben Al Hussein spent his holiday, between his studies at Harrow and his admission to the military academy at Sandhurst, after my insistence. I order him now, as his father and leader, to continue his studies there without any interruption until he finishes, by God's grace.

His reasons for altering the succession:

I have found that to take a decision, I must refer to the original Constitutional rule, where I find that all conditions that originally dictated the exception have passed, and that, therefore, His Royal Highness Prince Abdullah would, in such a case, immediately assume all duties and responsibilities as the Crown Prince of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

The reasons that Hassan was made Crown Prince:

I entrusted you with the post of crown prince and I was, with the will of God, responsible for that decision at the time, at a time when the eldest son of the King had not reached the age defined by the Constitution to allow him to assume responsibility in case the King had died by the will of God.

At that time, a dark atmosphere was affecting the whole nation because dangers, rumours and speculation were rife concerning the imminent end of Jordan, a country with a mission, principles and morals, and a true affiliation to the nation.

At the time, we were forced to introduce an amendment to Article 28 of the Constitution so that a brother of the King could assume the post of the Crown Prince. I chose you for the post with the blessings and approval of my brother, His Royal Highness Prince Mohammad. You have been privileged to hold that post despite the fact that your brother Mohammad was older than you. My dear brother Mohammad displayed understanding and altruism.

[alia_musallam]

It was generally recognised that Mohammed was not fit to be CP under KH as he had health problems.

[wymanda]

Originally posted by alia_musallam@Jan 18th, 2004 - 6:32 am
It was generally recognised that Mohammed was not fit to be CP under KH as he had health problems.

alia,
Thanks for answering my unspoken question! On a similar train of thought have any of the descendants of King Talal been aflicted with his mental problems?

[alia_musallam]

Not officially anyways, but we're all just waiting!

[shannen26]

Alia, let's say we are both not open minded, is that better ? is there another side of the problem, maybe I'm not interested in it, for me , the Royal Family of your country is the King ,his family and his siblings plus P Muna and Q Noor, of course- anyway, no need to be so intolerant , just as I like Ali and his siblings more than P Hasan ,- what did P Hasan do for your family, just wondering.....

[poes]

keep up your posts alia, i appreciate them a lot!

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Jan 17th, 2004 - 3:45 pm
I'd like to thank Alia for giving her veiws on Prince Hasan and Princess Sarvath. We all have different views. At least listen to someone's opinion and don't dismiss it as backwards or wrong simply because they don't agree with you.

Indeed.

Unfortunately, I've always been lead to believe that P Sarvath and P Hassan were spreading rumours and such about Q Noor and her children. I thought that they were scheming their way into the throne. But I don't know. I could be wrong.

Thank you Alia for sharing your thoughts on the situation with P Hassan and P Sarvath. It's a point of view that I haven't heard before.

P.S. I don't think that you're backwards at all! :)

[alia_musallam]

Originally posted by shannen26@Jan 18th, 2004 - 11:20 am
Alia, let's say we are both not open minded, is that better ? is there another side of the problem, maybe I'm not interested in it, for me , the Royal Family of your country is the King ,his family and his siblings plus P Muna and Q Noor, of course- anyway, no need to be so intolerant , just as I like Ali and his siblings more than P Hasan ,- what did P Hasan do for your family, just wondering.....

It's blatantly obvious you are not interested in any other side, no need to state it!

And i'm not intolerant but it is ridiculous for me to argue with someone who obviously knows nothing about the situation and who in their own words is not interested.

It's not about what Prince Hassan has or has not done for my family, but about what he has done for my country, which is alot! It seems to have escaped your notice that the JRF aren't just about looking pretty in pictures, but about ruling their country in a just and fair manner (though it seems that they are much better doing the former).


Banadoora: From what I have read and heard about and by Prince Hassan I have come to believe that he is an extremely intelligent man who was his brothers no. 1 advisor and companion, he was regent for much of the time (5 yrs) that his late majesty was in the USA being treated. He had been brought up since the age of 17 as CP and had always reflected this incredible upbringing. His wife's situation was very similar having been CPrincess since she married him aged 21. Thus it seems very out of character for them, in my mind, to start spreading malicious rumours. QNour did not like Prince Hassan for being so close to her husband, nor did she get on with PSarvath, it is well known, however their sons CPHamzah and PRashid were known to be extremely good friends (as you can see by the numerous photos taken of them togather as children). As the famous song When A Man Loves A Woman goes 'When a man loves a woman he'd turn his back on his best friend if he put her down', and that is what I believe happened, not through rumours but maybe having queried the influence that QNour had on his brother.

As for scheming to be King, he didn't need to scheme, he was CP and it seemed to be pretty much given that he was going to succeed his brother as PAbdullah was a reputed playboy who could barely speak Arabic and who had shown little interest in the position.

Something obviously happened to change KH's opinion of his brother and in Jordanian circles the finger is pointed at QNour. Unfortunately we will now never know and PHassan and his wife's reputation are tainted no matter how much work they do or have done for our country and I feel that it is a huge pity. However, it is a relief that this ostracization is only in the media and amongst the royal family in Jordan, as it appears that he is still on friendly terms with every other royal family around the world as well as many politicians and religious leaders.

And thank you for actually reading what I post :flower:

Poes: Thank you for your support. I need it!

[pegassuss2525]

It was my understanding that one of the main points of contention between Hussein and Hassan was that Hussein wanted a family council to convene and choose the next ruler (after Hassan) but that Hassan didn't want to accept that. I know that there were other issues as well but it really seemed to bother Hussein that his brother wouldn't agree to the council.

[wymanda]

Originally posted by alia_musallam@Jan 18th, 2004 - 6:07 pm
As for scheming to be King, he didn't need to scheme, he was CP and it seemed to be pretty much given that he was going to succeed his brother as PAbdullah was a reputed playboy who could barely speak Arabic and who had shown little interest in the position.

Just goes to show how things change! By the time King Hussein changed the succession Abdullah was happily married with two children.

As King Husseins letter to his brother clearly says the situation that resulted in Hassan being made crown prince no longer existed. Husseins eldest son was of an age to rule as was his birthright.

When you consider that at 15 years old King Hussien saw his grandfather assassinated by his side and only a short time later found himself king when his fathers health rendered him unfit to rule you can see why he did not want to risk leaving his, I presume, infant children as direct heirs and destablising the country.

[alia_musallam]

As King Husseins letter to his brother clearly says the situation that resulted in Hassan being made crown prince no longer existed. Husseins eldest son was of an age to rule as was his birthright

I totally agree but was just hoping that the anti-Hassan-ites amongst us would come up with a better reason than "he was spreading vile rumours". In my mind if KH hadn't been so ill he probably would have changed the succession in a less inflammatory manner, but at the time it was a great shock when PHassan had been regent for so long.

I totally agree but was just hoping that the anti-Hassan-ites amongst us would come up with a better reason than "he was spreading vile rumours". In my mind if KH hadn't been so ill he probably would have changed the succession in a less inflammatory manner, but at the time it was a great shock when PHassan had been regent for so long.

And I'm sure in time, KA will find some reason to remove P Hamzah from the position of CP. What goes around comes around. I think some day P. Hassan will wind up having the last laugh if it is true Q. Noor was a campaign to see her son named as K. Hussein's heir. The ball is in KA's court, he can name whomever he wants as his heir; promises to a dying father mean nothing. K. Hussein promised Q. Zein that P. Hassan would be king after him.