Media Reports: Plot to overthrow King Abdullah II (April 2021)

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

I guess that Hamzah is the intended successor of the king for those preparing the coup (if true). Does anyone know why they would want to remove Abdullah? Is it something specific that they don't like and/or want to achieve? And would Hamzah be considered a 'pawn' that they can easily control (based on the news so far from Jordan it seems that is how he is treated by the security services; not as one of the main instigators).

Prince Hamzah was once designated as King Abdullah's successor. King Abdullah's then rescinded that to name his own son, Prince Hussein, as Crown Prince. Prince Hamzah naturally must resent that, especially because his succeeding Abdullah was said to be the late King Hussein's will.


Under the Jordanian constitution, I believe the King's eldest son is automatically the heir unless the King names one of his brothers as his successor (please check).

[Rossina]

Video: Jordan's Prince Hamzah bin Hussein 'under house arrest'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Prince Hamzah was once designated as King Abdullah's successor. King Abdullah's then rescinded that to name his own son, Prince Hussein, as Crown Prince. Prince Hamzah naturally must resent that, especially because his succeeding Abdullah was said to be the late King Hussein's will.

Under the Jordanian constitution, I believe the King's eldest son is automatically the heir unless the King names one of his brothers as his successor (please check).

Yes, of that I am aware... but that doesn't tell us much about his involvement in this supposed coup.

This source suggests you are right about the eldest son being the heir UNLESS the king appoints one of his brothers.

In the case of Abdullah's heirs that meant that at first Hamzah was the heir apparent (although, that is not that apparent in Jordan apparently) until that position was removed 5 years later. After that, his eldest son automatically became the new heir and in 2009 the king also confirmed that by a decree (which is a bit weird, given that he could use a decree to replace his son with his brother - but he appointed his son (who already was his heir)).

[Prinsara]

Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.

[Marengo]

Is it known if Queen Noor is in the country at the moment?

[Blog Real]

Prince Hamzah says in a video that he is under house arrest.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tp3LyF...ature=youtu.be

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.

He does look exhausted and angry but that's kind of understandable. I have no idea if he is actually involved in anything but one wouldn't expect him to admit it if he was. Yes I suspect when he says "the government" for the last 15-20 years he is meaning mostly including his brother. However I don't think a military/palace coup backed by foreign interests is ever in the best interests of most of the people in the country and doesn't generally lead to peace or better working institutions. One need only look around to two or three of Jordan's neighbours to see how hideously that can turn out.

And this from the BBC:

Egypt, the US and the Saudi Royal Court have expressed support for King Abdullah.

King Hussein seemed to play politics and favourites with who was his heir IIRC. Prince Hassan Bin Talal was removed shortly before his brother's death. It's all complicated and bound to lead to resentment.

[Muhler]

Well, the King should rest easy now. A number of Arabic countries as well as USA are publicly expressing their support tonight.

So any possible additional attempt of a coup should be blocked by now.
I notice that a number of plotters are people who used to hold high positions, but were apparently sacked - so that suggests it was a group of disgruntled persons, rather than a group with wide support in the military and security apparatus, let alone the public.
However, I think we can expect more arrests in the following days.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Heavs

He does look exhausted and angry but that's kind of understandable. I have no idea if he is actually involved in anything but one wouldn't expect him to admit it if he was. Yes I suspect when he says "the government" for the last 15-20 years he is meaning mostly including his brother. However I don't think a military/palace coup backed by foreign interests is ever in the best interests of most of the people in the country and doesn't generally lead to peace.

What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.

[Prinsara]

Well, unless Hamzah is an exceptional liar, I feel like he's telling the truth; he likely didn't try to overthrow his brother, and Jordan has now become a lot of things, including going this far to suppress dissent.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Rossina

Video: Jordan's Prince Hamzah bin Hussein 'under house arrest'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370

Wow! Glad I watched the video. It certainly gave another prospective to the events.
Are there any truths to what Hamzah is saying? Is Jordan so full of corruption?
Hamzah comes across as very sincere and honest- perhaps he being wrongfully blamed and is the scapegoat in all of this.

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.

Earlier in the thread someone quoted an article:

"Additional arrests were expected, said the intelligence official."

"Hamzah was informed of the investigation by Jordanian military officers who arrived at his house with an escort of guards as elsewhere arrests were getting underway, the intelligence official said. While not placed under arrest, he was told to refrain from travel and from posting on social media, the intelligence official said.
The arrests of other officials were reported by Jordanian news outlets."

"It was unclear how close the alleged plotters were to carrying out the plan, or what, exactly, was intended. The intelligence official described the plan as “well-organized” and said the plotters appeared to have “foreign ties,” though he did not elaborate."

Yes a number of countries have expressed support for King Abdullah but that doesn't mean that others weren't involved or factions within other countries weren't involved. Or not, things are still developing.

I stand by my point in general that coups don't generally improve things for most of the people even if Hamzah and others are correct that there is widespread corruption and a break down of government.

Again I have no idea if he is actually involved. He said he was told he personally wasn't suspected and then basically said his friends were arrested for no reason but being accused of being critical of the king. But it seems like there *was* some kind of plot. How "critical" were these people? Maybe some of the conspirators talked about wanting to replace Abdullah with him without his knowledge?

Not defending corruption or potential police states. Just saying a violent coup doesn't help.

[Prinsara]

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.

And the timeline of 15-20 years also very much points to his brother's reign.

[Blog Real]

A BBC article on the possible coup d'état.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370

[kathia_sophia]

He seems to be very concerned about the current situation of Jordan as a country. He is clearly upset about the corruption and the government. Perhaps, it is true. His concern for his country seems genuine.

However, even though he says there is no conspiracy, it does sound that there has been "some" discussions about his brother's rule, which is probably the reason why it led to his home arrest.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Muhler

IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.

You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.

[tommy100]

I imagine Noor will only speak out if Hamzah is detained or if further action is taken against him. IMO it is always better to wait to speak so that a) you wait and see how things play out fully before doing so b) your words have grater impact

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Somebody

You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.

If her son is being unfairly accused, she would perhaps be a good advocate for him — although she would almost certainly be seen as biased.

Or it could make things worse. But you would think she would want to speak about this, at least at some point if this doesn't resolve. Her grandchildren are in there as well.