The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #21  
Old 04-03-2021, 04:37 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I guess that Hamzah is the intended successor of the king for those preparing the coup (if true). Does anyone know why they would want to remove Abdullah? Is it something specific that they don't like and/or want to achieve? And would Hamzah be considered a 'pawn' that they can easily control (based on the news so far from Jordan it seems that is how he is treated by the security services; not as one of the main instigators).

Prince Hamzah was once designated as King Abdullah's successor. King Abdullah's then rescinded that to name his own son, Prince Hussein, as Crown Prince. Prince Hamzah naturally must resent that, especially because his succeeding Abdullah was said to be the late King Hussein's will.


Under the Jordanian constitution, I believe the King's eldest son is automatically the heir unless the King names one of his brothers as his successor (please check).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:10 PM
Rossina's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: *****, India
Posts: 7,201
Video: Jordan's Prince Hamzah bin Hussein 'under house arrest'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370
__________________

__________________
TRF Rules ** MEMBERSHIP FAQ** TRF Blog
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:15 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Prince Hamzah was once designated as King Abdullah's successor. King Abdullah's then rescinded that to name his own son, Prince Hussein, as Crown Prince. Prince Hamzah naturally must resent that, especially because his succeeding Abdullah was said to be the late King Hussein's will.

Under the Jordanian constitution, I believe the King's eldest son is automatically the heir unless the King names one of his brothers as his successor (please check).
Yes, of that I am aware... but that doesn't tell us much about his involvement in this supposed coup.

This source suggests you are right about the eldest son being the heir UNLESS the king appoints one of his brothers.

In the case of Abdullah's heirs that meant that at first Hamzah was the heir apparent (although, that is not that apparent in Jordan apparently) until that position was removed 5 years later. After that, his eldest son automatically became the new heir and in 2009 the king also confirmed that by a decree (which is a bit weird, given that he could use a decree to replace his son with his brother - but he appointed his son (who already was his heir)).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:24 PM
Prinsara's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 1,256
Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:28 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 22,897
Is it known if Queen Noor is in the country at the moment?
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:35 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 6,180
Prince Hamzah says in a video that he is under house arrest.
__________________
My blogs about monarchies
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:37 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.
He does look exhausted and angry but that's kind of understandable. I have no idea if he is actually involved in anything but one wouldn't expect him to admit it if he was. Yes I suspect when he says "the government" for the last 15-20 years he is meaning mostly including his brother. However I don't think a military/palace coup backed by foreign interests is ever in the best interests of most of the people in the country and doesn't generally lead to peace or better working institutions. One need only look around to two or three of Jordan's neighbours to see how hideously that can turn out.

And this from the BBC:
Quote:
Egypt, the US and the Saudi Royal Court have expressed support for King Abdullah.
King Hussein seemed to play politics and favourites with who was his heir IIRC. Prince Hassan Bin Talal was removed shortly before his brother's death. It's all complicated and bound to lead to resentment.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:39 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,318
Well, the King should rest easy now. A number of Arabic countries as well as USA are publicly expressing their support tonight.

So any possible additional attempt of a coup should be blocked by now.
I notice that a number of plotters are people who used to hold high positions, but were apparently sacked - so that suggests it was a group of disgruntled persons, rather than a group with wide support in the military and security apparatus, let alone the public.
However, I think we can expect more arrests in the following days.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:42 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
He does look exhausted and angry but that's kind of understandable. I have no idea if he is actually involved in anything but one wouldn't expect him to admit it if he was. Yes I suspect when he says "the government" for the last 15-20 years he is meaning mostly including his brother. However I don't think a military/palace coup backed by foreign interests is ever in the best interests of most of the people in the country and doesn't generally lead to peace.

What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:43 PM
Prinsara's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 1,256
Well, unless Hamzah is an exceptional liar, I feel like he's telling the truth; he likely didn't try to overthrow his brother, and Jordan has now become a lot of things, including going this far to suppress dissent.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:44 PM
Alisa's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossina View Post
Video: Jordan's Prince Hamzah bin Hussein 'under house arrest'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370
Wow! Glad I watched the video. It certainly gave another prospective to the events.
Are there any truths to what Hamzah is saying? Is Jordan so full of corruption?
Hamzah comes across as very sincere and honest- perhaps he being wrongfully blamed and is the scapegoat in all of this.
__________________
Those who plot the destruction of others often perish in the attempt. ---Phaedrus
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:54 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.
Earlier in the thread someone quoted an article:
Quote:
"Additional arrests were expected, said the intelligence official."

"Hamzah was informed of the investigation by Jordanian military officers who arrived at his house with an escort of guards as elsewhere arrests were getting underway, the intelligence official said. While not placed under arrest, he was told to refrain from travel and from posting on social media, the intelligence official said.
The arrests of other officials were reported by Jordanian news outlets."

"It was unclear how close the alleged plotters were to carrying out the plan, or what, exactly, was intended. The intelligence official described the plan as “well-organized” and said the plotters appeared to have “foreign ties,” though he did not elaborate."
Yes a number of countries have expressed support for King Abdullah but that doesn't mean that others weren't involved or factions within other countries weren't involved. Or not, things are still developing.

I stand by my point in general that coups don't generally improve things for most of the people even if Hamzah and others are correct that there is widespread corruption and a break down of government.

Again I have no idea if he is actually involved. He said he was told he personally wasn't suspected and then basically said his friends were arrested for no reason but being accused of being critical of the king. But it seems like there *was* some kind of plot. How "critical" were these people? Maybe some of the conspirators talked about wanting to replace Abdullah with him without his knowledge?

Not defending corruption or potential police states. Just saying a violent coup doesn't help.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:57 PM
Prinsara's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 1,256
Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:14 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.
And the timeline of 15-20 years also very much points to his brother's reign.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:15 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 6,180
A BBC article on the possible coup d'état.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370
__________________
My blogs about monarchies
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:26 PM
kathia_sophia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South, Portugal
Posts: 2,960
He seems to be very concerned about the current situation of Jordan as a country. He is clearly upset about the corruption and the government. Perhaps, it is true. His concern for his country seems genuine.

However, even though he says there is no conspiracy, it does sound that there has been "some" discussions about his brother's rule, which is probably the reason why it led to his home arrest.
__________________
♫A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.♥
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:32 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?
IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:39 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.
You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:46 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,528
I imagine Noor will only speak out if Hamzah is detained or if further action is taken against him. IMO it is always better to wait to speak so that a) you wait and see how things play out fully before doing so b) your words have grater impact
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:49 PM
Prinsara's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 1,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.
If her son is being unfairly accused, she would perhaps be a good advocate for him — although she would almost certainly be seen as biased.

Or it could make things worse. But you would think she would want to speak about this, at least at some point if this doesn't resolve. Her grandchildren are in there as well.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Media reports: Divorce for King Mohamed VI and Princess Lalla Salma fanletizia King Mohammed VI and Princess Lalla Salma and Family 237 06-18-2020 09:34 PM
"Prince Philip: The Plot to Make a King" (2015) - Channel 4 Documentary Dman The Electronic Domain 23 08-06-2015 06:26 PM
Royal Blackmail Plot: October 2007 wbenson British Royals 60 10-30-2007 02:39 AM




Popular Tags
abu dhabi america archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism birth britain britannia british royal family british royals brownbitcoinqueen camilla camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing colorblindness commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs daisy doge of venice doll dresses dubai duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii family life family tree fashion and style general news thread genetics george vi gustaf vi adolf highgrove house of windsor jack brooksbank jewellery king willem-alexander książ castle line of succession list of rulers luxembourg medical meghan markle monarchy nepal nepalese royal jewels prince constantijn prince harry princess alexia (2005 -) princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn walailak princess ribha queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen maxima queen victoria royal ancestry spain speech sussex suthida swedish queen taiwan tradition unfinished portrait united states of america wales


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×