Media Reports: Plot to overthrow King Abdullah II (April 2021)

[Alisa]

Video: Jordan's Prince Hamzah bin Hussein 'under house arrest'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370

Wow! Glad I watched the video. It certainly gave another prospective to the events.
Are there any truths to what Hamzah is saying? Is Jordan so full of corruption?
Hamzah comes across as very sincere and honest- perhaps he being wrongfully blamed and is the scapegoat in all of this.

 

[Heavs]

What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.

Earlier in the thread someone quoted an article:

"Additional arrests were expected, said the intelligence official."

"Hamzah was informed of the investigation by Jordanian military officers who arrived at his house with an escort of guards as elsewhere arrests were getting underway, the intelligence official said. While not placed under arrest, he was told to refrain from travel and from posting on social media, the intelligence official said.
The arrests of other officials were reported by Jordanian news outlets."

"It was unclear how close the alleged plotters were to carrying out the plan, or what, exactly, was intended. The intelligence official described the plan as “well-organized” and said the plotters appeared to have “foreign ties,” though he did not elaborate."

Yes a number of countries have expressed support for King Abdullah but that doesn't mean that others weren't involved or factions within other countries weren't involved. Or not, things are still developing.

I stand by my point in general that coups don't generally improve things for most of the people even if Hamzah and others are correct that there is widespread corruption and a break down of government.

Again I have no idea if he is actually involved. He said he was told he personally wasn't suspected and then basically said his friends were arrested for no reason but being accused of being critical of the king. But it seems like there *was* some kind of plot. How "critical" were these people? Maybe some of the conspirators talked about wanting to replace Abdullah with him without his knowledge?

Not defending corruption or potential police states. Just saying a violent coup doesn't help.

 

[Prinsara]

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

 

[Somebody]

Hamzah looks absolutely exhausted in his video, but he makes a good bit of sense and he sounds quite angry — more for the country than himself.

He seems to come dangerously close to criticizing his brother when he speaks about "the government", anyway.

And the timeline of 15-20 years also very much points to his brother's reign.

 

[Blog Real]

A BBC article on the possible coup d'état.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56626370

 

[kathia_sophia]

He seems to be very concerned about the current situation of Jordan as a country. He is clearly upset about the corruption and the government. Perhaps, it is true. His concern for his country seems genuine.

However, even though he says there is no conspiracy, it does sound that there has been "some" discussions about his brother's rule, which is probably the reason why it led to his home arrest.

 

[Muhler]

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.

 

[Somebody]

IMO no.

No need to. She would only be needed to make a statement if it was necessary to rally the general population behind the king. And such a situation would only be the case, if the King was a captive, wounded, or various units of the armed forced were skirmishing in the streets. I.e. a situation where the King and his immediate family is in danger or risk being overthrown.

Otherwise the wisest thing she could do right now, is to remain silent and just be seen supporting her husband.
Jordan is after all a patriarchal society and having a woman, even a Queen, interfering in such a serious matter, may not be received that well by a wide segment of the population, who might otherwise support the King.

You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.

 

[tommy100]

I imagine Noor will only speak out if Hamzah is detained or if further action is taken against him. IMO it is always better to wait to speak so that a) you wait and see how things play out fully before doing so b) your words have grater impact

 

[Prinsara]

You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.

If her son is being unfairly accused, she would perhaps be a good advocate for him — although she would almost certainly be seen as biased.

Or it could make things worse. But you would think she would want to speak about this, at least at some point if this doesn't resolve. Her grandchildren are in there as well.

 

[Heavs]

As of 15 hours ago Noor was retweeting fairly standard stuff for her:

https://twitter.com/QueenNoor/with_replies

I assume she, Raiyah and Ned are all still in the UK and she may have been involved with his lawyer handing the video to the BBC.

I think she should stay publicly silent for now until more is known. I'm sure she is working and worried behind the scenes.

 

[Muhler]

You are confusing Queen Rania and Queen Noor. Queen Rania is king Abdullah's husband, while Queen Noor is prince Hamzah's mother and the late-King Hussein's widow. So, Queen Noor might from some kind of 'buffer' for her son in all of this. Nonetheless, I agree that speaking out right now would not be the best course of action but depending on how her son is treated in the next days/week/months, I wouldn't be surprised if one day she would.

Ah, I see.

Well, IMO it would serve no purpose for Queen Noor to speak out on behalf of her son in public. On the contrary.
It would only serve to agitate any supporters among the people and military that Hamzah may have, and I seriously doubt King Abdullah would be pleased!
As has been suggested, she would be much more useful working behind the scenes.

 

[JR76]

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

If I remember it correctly Queen Noor has never been very popular with the Jordanian people so it might be better for her to remain quiet.

 

[Prinsara]

Thinking about it... Hamzah made that video in English, not Arabic. Unless there is an Arabic version circulating too, does that suggest he believes his best bet is making his case to people who understand English? (His luck is not exactly great domestically at the moment. So, widen the call for... help? Awareness? Both?)

 

[Heavs]

Thinking about it... Hamzah made that video in English, not Arabic. Unless there is an Arabic version circulating too, does that suggest he believes his best bet is making his case to people who understand English? (His luck is not exactly great domestically at the moment. So, widen the call for... help? Awareness? Both?)

Yes I suspect he wants his video on the evening/morning news on the BBC etc. I suspect he may have been thinking of the Latifa videos which have already been referenced by some news outlets.

The US government has already backed Abdullah and I expect the UK probably will too but he may well be able to put pressure on his brother if necessary with support from that video.

I expect Jordanian officials to reiterate that he's not under arrest and/or not being mis treated in a few days, unless something concrete comes out that they can point to.

 

[Prinsara]

From the latest version of the WaPo article.

"He commands a loyal following in Amman and, with his trim mustache and checkered headdress, often styles himself after the late King Hussein, a revered figure in Jordan."

But cultivating popularity is not a coup.

 

[acdc1]

I'm just reading up on this- what a story! Seems like Hamzah is focusing on the "corruption" in Jordan under his brother's reign, but I have always gotten the impression that he and his mother weren't happy about Hamzah's Crown Prince title being rescinded. I guess that he was the favorite son of King Hussein (or at least the son who was closest to him) and got a lot of attention from him, and King Hussein wanted him to be Crown Prince when Abdullah took the throne.

 

[Eskimo]

Is it wise for Queen Noor to say anything?

The woman is persona non-grata with the current TPTB. I think her opening her mouth might lead to a more formal arrest for Hamzah

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

There are four wives and several children. Maybe each of the oldest son of each of his wives, expected to be the next King of Jordan? taking their fathers place. I do remember Queen Noor not being happy about Prince Hamzah's CP title being rescinded and Abdullah was made King. I also read that there was frictions between Q Noor and Pss Muna, don't know if this is still going on. I really hope the allegations against P Hamzah are false. We need to sit and wait of the outcome . Sad to see this, because they all seemed to be a tide knit family. No matter where it is and who it is and affect. Title and power?, it seem lot of people want it, if they have it then what?.

 

[vkrish]

Complete lack of governance
Corruption
Total loss of trust of people.
These are no ordinary words coming from a King's brother. It's almost like the speech he was going to make if the coup turned out successful.
He is not at all making an effort to support/endorse the current regime, not even making an effort..

 

[Friedrich Karl II]

Not any doubts that in Jordan wouldn't be corruption, probably quiet massively. There is not corruption-free countries anywhere and many Middle Eastern countries are quiet infamously corrupted. Surely in Jordan too has always been corruption. So question is how much situation has changed under Abdullah II?


Hamza hardly was happy when Abdullah descinded his crown prince title but that happened almost twenty years ago. I would assume that Hamza wasn't quiet aware about plot and plotter indended him being ratherly puppet king. But such palace/military coup would had been really stupid idea and hardly could had been succesful.

 

[Princess Mahala]

I'm just getting up to speed but wow this is a shocker, like the Haya situation. I saw the video on CNN and am genuinely heartbroken. I have a lot of respect for Queen Noor and her family.

Just the opinions of an outsider here:

I think as watchers or "fans" of royals we tend not be very knowledgeable or overlook the politics of the country and just glamorize them for the titles and image they've created in media but Jordan has issues. It's considered an authoritarian country that doesn't respect freedom of speech. People who criticise the government or the king put themselves at risk. Now Hamzah, who's likely already seen as a threat, associating with individuals or speaking out publicly/privately, criticizing the regime makes him a logical target for these actions. Who knows what information they have about an actual coup but the arrests may be out of an abundance of caution, rumours, or just paranoia that caused king Abdullah to authorize this. Remember he narrowly escaped the arab spring and protests which likely really scared him.

On the coup or conspiracy, I for one don't believe Prince Hamzah would participate in any talks or moves against the king. Hope I'm not wrong but he's never appeared to be resentful of his brother personally. His speaking out sounds serious and feels like concern, not political gain for himself. He's smart. He knows the risk, not only to his family but to the stability of the country he loves. This would've been more believable after he was removed as crown prince; He would've had some credibility and support then, but now? I don't buy it. This "arrest" and accusations of his alleged involvement, is being used to punish and delegitimize him as any sort rival for Abdullah's position.

I really hope this is resolved soon. It'd be a shame to see the brothers forced to take sides and go against each other.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I guess that Hamzah is the intended successor of the king for those preparing the coup (if true). Does anyone know why they would want to remove Abdullah? Is it something specific that they don't like and/or want to achieve? And would Hamzah be considered a 'pawn' that they can easily control (based on the news so far from Jordan it seems that is how he is treated by the security services; not as one of the main instigators).

While many seem blinded by Gucci-wearing Rania assembling her family for glamourous black-and-white portraits, I have repeatedly remarked the King heads a kleptocratic system where staggering incompetency, nepotism, corruptism and favoritism strangle the economy and the welfare of the Jordanians, oppressed by the security services.

However the sight of Rania in a new Elie Saab dress was more interesting than my critical remarks. But anyone who follows Jordan knows this was brewing for a long time. And it is the third time that a heir is someone else. More or less on his deathbed Hussein decided Abdullah & Rania would be the new royal couple and not the long-serving impeccable Hassan & Sarvath. The second was the replacement of the popular son of Noor, the same Hamzah whom is under house arrest now.

Prince Hamzah has been critical on the all-crippling corruptism in Jordan, with between the lines indirectly criticizing the King for total inertion. That proved him costly today.

 

[victor1319]

These are no ordinary words coming from a King's brother. It's almost like the speech he was going to make if the coup turned out successful.

Yep, I have the same impression! Maybe he is guilty after all.

Btw One of the advantages of democracy: Change in the ranks of the political elites without coups, revolutions and unrest, but through elections (however flawed they may be...)!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I'm just reading up on this- what a story! Seems like Hamzah is focusing on the "corruption" in Jordan under his brother's reign, but I have always gotten the impression that he and his mother weren't happy about Hamzah's Crown Prince title being rescinded. I guess that he was the favorite son of King Hussein (or at least the son who was closest to him) and got a lot of attention from him, and King Hussein wanted him to be Crown Prince when Abdullah took the throne.

The heirs were the longtime serving Hassan and Sarvath, whom have excellent relationships with all European royal families. If Hussein wanted Hamzah to be his heir, why then he decided -more or less on his deathbed- to remove Hassan for Abdullah indeed and not for Hamzah?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

There are four wives and several children. Maybe each of the oldest son of each of his wives, expected to be the next King of Jordan? taking their fathers place. I do remember Queen Noor not being happy about Prince Hamzah's CP title being rescinded and Abdullah was made King. I also read that there was frictions between Q Noor and Pss Muna, don't know if this is still going on. I really hope the allegations against P Hamzah are false. We need to sit and wait of the outcome . Sad to see this, because they all seemed to be a tide knit family. No matter where it is and who it is and affect. Title and power?, it seem lot of people want it, if they have it then what?.

I remember at the time that Noor never got along with her step children and there was a lot going on at the time of KH's illness/death, he removed his own brother as CP and installed Abdullah. Abdullah did not expect to become King after his father's death. There were rumors that it was KH's wish to have Hamzah installed as CP to Abdullah to keep Noor happy. The writing was always on the wall that Abdullah would eventually remove Hamzah and install his own son as CP. When it happened, I was only surprised that it took Abdullah so long to finally do it.

Of course Hamzah and especially Noor will not have been happy about that and maybe the sentiment has been lingering, especially with the evident problems in Jordan.
But hey, Abdullah has always been between a rock and a hard place, nobody wants to be in his shoes or is very likely to do better than him.

We will see what comes out of all this mess.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Complete lack of governance
Corruption
Total loss of trust of people.
These are no ordinary words coming from a King's brother. It's almost like the speech he was going to make if the coup turned out successful.
He is not at all making an effort to support/endorse the current regime, not even making an effort..

Hamzah only shows the real world. Jordanians seeing their country sinking away in a swamp. But hey... All is well in Jordan, see...the Queen wearing a Hermès bag with her Louboutin killer heels. Wow what a stylish Queen, all must be well in Jordan indeed...



I am happy that the real world has made an appearance in this Jordan thread. Thank you Hamzah.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What foreign interests would be involved in this case? The BBC says that the United States, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have expressed support for King Abdullah.

Well well, Egypt and Saudi Arabia... The devil is never far away when you need him.
And the USA? Remember: a country has no friends, only interests (Charles de Gaulle).

 

[Princess Mahala]

The heirs were the longtime serving Hassan and Sarvath, whom have excellent relationships with all European royal families. If Hussein wanted Hamzah to be his heir, why then he decided -more or less on his deathbed- to remove Hassan for Abdullah indeed and not for Hamzah?

King Hussein chose his brother Hassan because of the constant assassination attempts and Abdullah was too young at the time. I think he waited too long to remove Hassan because he became so popular and Abdullah was the oldest but hardly knew any Arabic and wasn't prepared, but his purported favorite, hamzah, was too young. It was said he worried for Hamzah to have a normal life and go to school and left it on good faith that Abdullah would step aside one day...

 

[Rossina]

According to Almamlaka national tv, the Jordanian government is expected to release another statement that clarifies the arrests today. It will be published in the next hour so let`s wait and see.