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  #81  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossina View Post
Princess Firyal comments, OMG!

She is the former wife of Prince Mohammad Bin Talal, King Hussein`s brother, and the mother of his two sons Talal & Ghazi.


https://twitter.com/FiryalOfJordan/s...18429381849095
https://postimg.cc/RJ7jmBfP
I am surprised by this comment from Princess Firyal.
There appears to be a division in the Royal Family of Jordan, but most members of the family must support the King.
I am curious to know what King Abdullah II is going to do.
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  #82  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:20 PM
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  #83  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The heirs were the longtime serving Hassan and Sarvath, whom have excellent relationships with all European royal families. If Hussein wanted Hamzah to be his heir, why then he decided -more or less on his deathbed- to remove Hassan for Abdullah indeed and not for Hamzah?

Wow, I didn't know that! Things I learn :)
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  #84  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The heirs were the longtime serving Hassan and Sarvath, whom have excellent relationships with all European royal families. If Hussein wanted Hamzah to be his heir, why then he decided -more or less on his deathbed- to remove Hassan for Abdullah indeed and not for Hamzah?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...s_Crown_Prince

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Crown Prince Hassan's attempted consolidation of power led the sickly King Hussein to break off "intensive" treatments for lymphoma and fly back home to Jordan in order to address the issue. At first, the King attempted to negotiate with Hassan, placing the King's younger son Hamzah as Hassan's crown prince to ensure that the line of succession would not switch to Hassan's line. However, Hassan's Pakistani wife Sarvath vetoed the proposal, particularly because of her reported distaste for Hamzah's American-born mother Queen Noor and her desire to have her son Prince Rashid in the line of succession. King Hussein instead replaced Hassan with his own son Abdullah, who had backing within the military and whose position as eldest son of the king would allow him to be enthroned by royal fiat, unlike Hamzah whose enthronement would require confirmation from the Jordanian Parliament.
He probably felt he didn't have enough time, let alone energy, to get Hamzah into place.
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  #85  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:13 PM
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Guest on DW news is confirmed Hamzah made an Arabic language video as well.

The wording is surprisingly trashy but princess Firyal's family have always been the closest cousins to Abdullah and appear completely unconditional to the king. Also lets be real, people, especially family members, will use this incident to curry favor with the king. No one wants to go through what hamzah is and Queen Noor has always had haters (Rania for one) and they have scapegoated her for decades.
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  #86  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:47 PM
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i read that Prince Hassan have expressed his support to the King..is that true?
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  #87  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...s_Crown_Prince



He probably felt he didn't have enough time, let alone energy, to get Hamzah into place.



I think that, legally, under the constitution of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, King Hussein could name either Abdullah or Prince Hassan as his sucessor, but could not name Prince Hamzah directly.


King Abdullah II, on the other hand, can choose either his eldest son, Prince Hussein, or Prince Hamzah, or any of his other brothers, as successor.
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  #88  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think that, legally, under the constitution of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, King Hussein could name either Abdullah or Prince Hassan as his sucessor, but could not name Prince Hamzah directly.


King Abdullah II, on the other hand, can choose either his eldest son, Prince Hussein, or Prince Hamzah, or any of his other brothers, as successor.
Yes, true. One of the reasons that prevented Hamzah's appointment as heir to his father's throne is that paragraph of the constitution, according to some newspapers in 1999. King Hussein was very ill then & probably had no time to change it.
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  #89  
Old 04-04-2021, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post


The King, helped by his security forces, managed to suppress free speech and therefore criticism, resulting in a sort of 'stability'.

After all, the King can rely on his Intelligence agencies which, through a complex spying system, play a central role in preserving "stability" (read: oppress discontent).
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  #90  
Old 04-05-2021, 02:05 AM
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I was of the impression that Hamzah was made crown prince because when Abdullah became king as King Abdullah’s own son was only 5 years old and it was better to have an adult as crown prince in case something happened, but people in Jordan only expected this to be temporary until Abdullah’s son was old enough to be named heir. The same with Hassan, he was named crown prince at a time when King Hussein’s sons were small children and from what I can gather from Jordanian friends no-one ever expected Hassan to become king.

I am told that Hamzah is well respected in Jordan, but the King and Crown Prince are more popular. Hamzah appears to be against the government and corruption, not his brother. Reading the Jordanian government’s statements it seems it is their position they are worried about, although a forced change of government could have ultimately led to change of monarch.

There is a lot of speculation and people have already come to their own conclusions based on gossip and little factual information, which, sadly, is the way of the modern world.
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  #91  
Old 04-05-2021, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by EssexRoyal View Post
I was of the impression that Hamzah was made crown prince because when Abdullah became king as King Abdullah’s own son was only 5 years old and it was better to have an adult as crown prince in case something happened, but people in Jordan only expected this to be temporary until Abdullah’s son was old enough to be named heir. The same with Hassan, he was named crown prince at a time when King Hussein’s sons were small children and from what I can gather from Jordanian friends no-one ever expected Hassan to become king.

I am told that Hamzah is well respected in Jordan, but the King and Crown Prince are more popular. Hamzah appears to be against the government and corruption, not his brother. Reading the Jordanian government’s statements it seems it is their position they are worried about, although a forced change of government could have ultimately led to change of monarch.

There is a lot of speculation and people have already come to their own conclusions based on gossip and little factual information, which, sadly, is the way of the modern world.
Of course Prince Hamzah citicizes the Government but automatically hits the King, whom is an essential part of Government and is not placed on a distance, like in European monarchies.

It are the King's ministers, it are the King's armed forces and it especially are the King's omnipresent spies, his intelligence agencies, which control the Jordanians. Add to this: the kleptocratic elite, the tribes, which have to be "satisfied". Add to this: the eternal and crippling corruption ("What is in it for me?") and you a once young and promising King unable or unwilling to change this. The young King himself changed into an old granite cornerstone, an embodiment, of all what goes wrong because "change is unstability, and unstability is dangerous for a monarchy".

It is exact the same situation as King Mohammed of Morocco is into. With that difference that due to different personalities and family dynamics and less tribality plus lots of EU money, the situation in Morocco is better than in Jordan.

Underlying message of this house arrest: if even a popular prince is not safe for the iron fist of the King's intelligence agencies, no any ordinary Jordanian is.
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  #92  
Old 04-05-2021, 04:59 AM
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Jordan’s Prince Hamzah vows to disobey army ‘keep silent’ order
Hamzah, 41, says he was ordered to stay in his Amman palace but would defy the limits on his freedom of movement.
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  #93  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Add to this: the kleptocratic elite, the tribes, which have to be "satisfied". Add to this: the eternal and crippling corruption ("What is in it for me?")
I do not want to transform this into a political discussion, but Jordan neighbours Syria and Iraq... - and compared to them, Jordan is doing rather well.

And for a world area, where everybody is crazy, the King like his Father appears to be blessed with common sense.

The good Prince Hamzah on the other hand makes with his still defiant stance a treasonous appearance! Or he is a bit thick...

Besides: Jordan is really poor, there is not much to "kleptocratize"!
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  #94  
Old 04-05-2021, 07:22 AM
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Almost 20% (!) of Jordan's GDP is foreign aid, with the EU and USA as by far the largest donors, with so now and then firm contributions from the oil-rich Arab states in the framework of "Arab solidarity". Sadly lots of this money is not used to change and modernize the structure and dynamics of Jordan's economy but finds it way into the pockets of the elite. If not directly, then for sure indirectly. For an example giving lucrative contracts to "us knows us" and distribute it alongside tribal lines: "If you designate millions of EU money to them, what about us?" And there goes Jordan again, kleptocratic knibbling away foreign aid instead of a firm Marshall Plan-like structural renewal of its economy. Exactly alike Egypt. Exactly alike Lebanon.

Last week Jordanians died in State hospitals becase there was no oxygen. We are not talking about equipment, medication or surgeons. No, there was no oxygen. In the past 5 years the EU channeled roughly 5,2 billion Euro to Jordan to fight humanitary crises. No idea if that money was spent wisely, apparently not on oxygen for hospitals, so to see.

This recent drama of Jordanians dying because of something so basal as oxygen missing in a State-funded hospitals helped to feed today's unrest: a better illustration of the State's incompetency is not to find. It seems even the tribes have secretly voiced their discontent to Prince Hamzah and this made the King suspicious.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/health/8-di...plies/2174787#
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  #95  
Old 04-05-2021, 12:39 PM
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Not the newest video from Al-Jazeera, but it is interesting.
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  #96  
Old 04-05-2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Really? Totally unbelievable. It was such a stable monarchy..supported so well by the extended family. Can't believe Hamza would resort to such a thing!

I am in agreement. I just can't picture Hamza of plotting an overthrow. I was flabbergasted when I read of his arrest!
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  #97  
Old 04-05-2021, 01:48 PM
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According to the royal court twitter, King Abdullah II decided to deal with the issue of Prince Hamzah within the framework of the Hashemite family.
He entrusted this path to his uncle, Prince Hassan who communicated with Prince Hamzah. In return Prince Hamzah confirmed that he adheres to the approach of the Hashemite family.
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  #98  
Old 04-05-2021, 01:51 PM
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I am in agreement. I just can't picture Hamza of plotting an overthrow. I was flabbergasted when I read of his arrest!
He was not plotting an overthrow. He was supportive to criticasters of the Jordanian Government. For King Abdullah this was enough to enforce his own half-brother in house arrest.

Today retired supreme naval officers were arrested in Turkey. Reason: they voiced criticism on President Erdogan's plans to dig a new waterway alongside the Bosporus, an immensely strategic spot, with this violating international treaties. For Erdogan the criticism was enough to have Turkey's esteemed reitred admirals and fleet captains to be arrested... Welcome in the Near Orient...

Prince Hamzah's arrest marks an iron fist by the regime but it also exposes unsecurity. After all, a stable King can handle reasonable and justified criticism on matters of Government. This shows Abdullah feeling the heat.
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  #99  
Old 04-05-2021, 02:44 PM
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Update: Prince Hamzah signs statement pledging allegiance to King Abdullah II & crown prince Hussein.

https://en.royanews.tv/news/26802/2021-04-05

The royal court shared a copy of Prince Hamzah's statement on its website and social media accounts. In addition to Prince Hamzah it was also signed by his younger brother Prince Hashem, Prince Hassan Bin Talal and cousins Rashed Bin Al Hassan, Ghazi Bin Mohammad & Talal Bin Mohammed.

https://rhc.jo/ar/media/news/%D8%A8%...%D9%85%D9%8A-8
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  #100  
Old 04-05-2021, 03:02 PM
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Not revealed: how they got him to do that.
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