Two Sicilies: rival claims, 2014 reconciliation and succession issues

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MAfan

The article actually reports that one supporter of the Duke of Calabria has written a letter to the Major of Nola, ahead of the visit of the Duke of Castro to the city of Nola, pointing out that - for the very well known arguments - the Duke of Castro isn't the Head of the Royal Hoouse of the Two Sicilies, which instead is the Duke of Calabria.
So, it appears to be more the discontent of one person for the fact that Prince Carlo has been presented as the Head of the Royal House, rather than the discontent of the supporters of the Duke of Calabria for the visit of the Duke of Castro itself.

The supporters of the Duke of Calabria have the same opinion but they should notice the Duke of Castro is much more known in the ancient Kingdom.

[MAfan]

They may have the same opinion of the author of the letter, but still the fact that one person wrote a letter, complaining for the fact that Prince Carlo was regarded as the Head of the Royal House during his visit in Nola, doesn't mean at all that the supporters of Prince Pedro were "not happy with the visit of the Duke of Castro in Nola".

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MAfan

They may have the same opinion of the author of the letter, but still the fact that one person wrote a letter, complaining for the fact that Prince Carlo was regarded as the Head of the Royal House during his visit in Nola, doesn't mean at all that the supporters of Prince Pedro were "not happy with the visit of the Duke of Castro in Nola".

It is just a question of language because we know very well the supporters of the Duke of Calabria are very critical towards to Duke of Castro.

[MAfan]

It is NOT a question of language. It is a question of a huge difference between your summary of the article and the actual contents of that article.

[Cory]

Not at all. The campaign of the supporters of the Duke of Calabria was just symbolized by that supporter who belongs to a group loyal to the Spanish Duke.
The reality is that may the Duke of Valabria is the rightful Head of the Royal House but the Duke of Castro is much more popular in the south.

[MAfan]

I'm not questioning wha the reality is, or the rightfulness of the two claims, or that each pretender has its own group of supporters. I was just pointing out what the actual content of the article you posted is: not the protest of many against the visit of the Duke of Castro to Nola, but the protest of one person against the fact that the Duke of Castro was presented as the Head of the Royal House. Full stop.
Probably is true that - as you said - Mr Seminara in his letter expressed the thoughts and the discontent of many, but he was the only one to express them and only with regards to one certain point, which is the claim of the Duke of Castro to be the Heado of the House of Bourbon Two Sicilies, and not the unhappiness for the visit itself.

That said, it's true that the Duke of Castro is far more popular than his Spanish cousin in the South of Italy - after all, Prince Carlo has been engaged in more visits and activities in the South Italy than Prince Pedro and his family.

[Cory]

I completely agree with you. The Duke of Castro is very present in the area and that certainly makes the difference.

[Duc_et_Pair]

A remarkable action by His Royal Highness The Duke of Calabria, the primogeniture of the dynasty Bourbon-Two Sicilies: he has published a letter to his cousin, Don Carlo. Link to the documents (which appeared in my Facebook timeline via the Royal Musings blog): Royal Musings: Letters of the Duke of Calabria without frames ..


I must say a strong and dignified letter, steadfast in his faith and open to reconciliation. I am curious what the response will be of Don Carlo.




[...]
"We have just participated in the pilgrimage of this jubilee year of mercy, living moments that call for interior peace and reconciliation with God and every man. My conscience is calm and so I wish it for those around me.

I deeply regret this situation. With the same strength I wish for peace and harmony within our family and, as legitimate heir, I ratify firmly my rights.

Pedro."

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

A remarkable action by His Royal Highness The Duke of Calabria, the primogeniture of the dynasty Bourbon-Two Sicilies: he has published a letter to his cousin, Don Carlo. Link to the documents (which appeared in my Facebook timeline via the Royal Musings blog): Royal Musings: Letters of the Duke of Calabria without frames ..


I must say a strong and dignified letter, steadfast in his faith and open to reconciliation. I am curious what the response will be of Don Carlo.




[...]
"We have just participated in the pilgrimage of this jubilee year of mercy, living moments that call for interior peace and reconciliation with God and every man. My conscience is calm and so I wish it for those around me.

I deeply regret this situation. With the same strength I wish for peace and harmony within our family and, as legitimate heir, I ratify firmly my rights.

Pedro."

It is hardly a "remarkable action" to release a communique.

Nearly two months expired before Prince D. Pedro felt compelled to issue a statement on the decision of the Duke of Castro.

The family dispute will continue, just as it has with the Romanovs. Some will side with the Italian branch, some will side with the Spanish branch. This is the way these things go.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

It is hardly a "remarkable action" to release a communique.

Nearly two months expired before Prince D. Pedro felt compelled to issue a statement on the decision of the Duke of Castro.

The family dispute will continue, just as it has with the Romanovs. Some will side with the Italian branch, some will side with the Spanish branch. This is the way these things go.

In the first sentence you say it is hardly a "remarkable action" but in the second sentence you noted that nearly two months expried, which actually underlines the remarkability of this action.

It is not the communiqué itself which is remarkable. It is the open publication of a private correspondence of the Duke to "Dear cousin Carlo" which is the remarkable part.

By the way, that letter is dated May 28th 2016, so actually the Duke did respond to Don Carlo, two weeks after his actions (unilaterally changing the succession of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, making his daughter the future chef of said House and creating her with the ducal title for generations associated with the Spanish branch. Three provocative actions in a row and all that after a solemn act of reconciliation...).

[Marengo]

Whether it is remarkable or not, it is clear that the Duke of Calabria has made the letter public more for his supporters to read (and perhaps for some people that are jumping the Castro-ship) and not fo his cousins benifit. This letter will not open any doors to reconsilliation, and even if it would, the door has been closed by the duke of Castro.

I found the open letter surprising as the Calabria branch has been rather discreet. I suspect the duke of Calabria will be more assertive in the future too.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Marengo

[...]

I found the open letter surprising as the Calabria branch has been rather discreet. I suspect the duke of Calabria will be more assertive in the future too.

The Spanish and the Italian branches have solemnly agreed to respect each other's position, not to contest each others titles. The Spanish branch therefore also accepted the titles of Don Carlo's daughters as a fait accompli (Duchess of Palermo respectively Duchess of Capri). All for sweet peace and harmony...

Now the junior line (Castro) has stirred e-ve-ry-thing: the succession to the headship of the House, making his daughter the future chef and even -more provocative is not possible- "bestow her" with the title Duchess of Calabria, exactly the title used for generations in the Spanish branch...

What else can the Duke of Calabria do? He had to raise his voice and protest. For so far he did it quite restraintly and utmost formal, I must say. He keeps his composure.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

rmo respectively Duchess of Capri). All for sweet peace and harmony...

Now the junior line (Castro) has stirred e-ve-ry-thing: the succession to the headship of the House, making his daughter the future chef and even -more provocative is not possible- "bestow her" with the title Duchess of Calabria, exactly the title used for generations in the Spanish branch...

The title Duke of Calabrias has also been used by the Italian branch. When his father was alive the Duke of Castro was styled Duke of Calabria. Only after the death of his father he took the Title Duke of Castro.
They use it as title for the Heir like the Spanish branch styles the Heir Duke of Noto.

[Marengo]

I suppose his eldest daughter was not his heir yet, hence the Palermo title. So now that that has been changed he also re-introduced the Calabria title. When you burn bridges you might as well burn them all.

The duke of Calabria could reply in a multitude of ways, from a twitter war to suffering in silence I suppose. But the present course of action seems well adviced: making clear to his supporters that he is -in his vision- the only true heir to the Two Sicilies ánd at the same time taking the moral high ground.

I find these title disputes in former reigning houses rather curious. IMHO the house of Wittelsbach is one of the prime examples where it is well managed and the entire family behaves with dignity while still accepting new realities and changes. Of course Duke Franz did not change succession yet to include his brother's daughters, but who knows what will happen in the future .

[Duc_et_Pair]

Indeed. No drama. Quite a well-controlled reaction. It seems that slurring the Duke's late father ("r.i.p.") in "this affront" (as the Duke worded it) was the trigger for him.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The Spanish and the Italian branches have solemnly agreed to respect each other's position, not to contest each others titles. The Spanish branch therefore also accepted the titles of Don Carlo's daughters as a fait accompli (Duchess of Palermo respectively Duchess of Capri). All for sweet peace and harmony...

Now the junior line (Castro) has stirred e-ve-ry-thing: the succession to the headship of the House, making his daughter the future chef and even -more provocative is not possible- "bestow her" with the title Duchess of Calabria, exactly the title used for generations in the Spanish branch...

What else can the Duke of Calabria do? He had to raise his voice and protest. For so far he did it quite restraintly and utmost formal, I must say. He keeps his composure.

The French branch leaded by the Duke of Castro did not a dialogue about Succession with the Duke of Calabria and the Duke of Noto from the eldest branch.

[Katrianna]

By his actions the Duke of Castro has made it appear that the work of many over a considerable amount of time for a reconciliation between the two branches was truly a waste of time and how sincere was Duke Carlo upon his signing the papers of reconciliation? I was surprised at the time of the announcement of a reconciliation and the question of succession because of the deep animosities between the two sides. I guess it was only a matter of time that someone would renege on the agreement and that it came from the Duke of Castro didn't surprise me either.

[Duc_et_Pair]

I agree. Then comes the question: was it the Duke or was it his spouse, Camilla? On me she seems to have the reins in her hand, in that family. I can see her crawling, besides her attempts for eternal youth, for wanting to climb furtherer than Monte-Carlo and making sure her daughters follow mommie-dearest.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Katrianna

By his actions the Duke of Castro has made it appear that the work of many over a considerable amount of time for a reconciliation between the two branches was truly a waste of time and how sincere was Duke Carlo upon his signing the papers of reconciliation? I was surprised at the time of the announcement of a reconciliation and the question of succession because of the deep animosities between the two sides. I guess it was only a matter of time that someone would renege on the agreement and that it came from the Duke of Castro didn't surprise me either.

You may be right unfortunately.

[Katrianna]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I agree. Then comes the question: was it the Duke or was it his spouse, Camilla? On me she seems to have the reins in her hand, in that family. I can see her crawling, besides her attempts for eternal youth, for wanting to climb furtherer than Monte-Carlo and making sure her daughters follow mommie-dearest.

I was going to mention the possibility of Camilla plus her mother also being the movers and shakers behind the actions of Carlos, but I wasn't sure how my speculation would be received, I have to admit.