Savoy and Savoy-Aosta: Restoration, Succession, Heirs and Conflicts

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The source is probably Sacchi's thumb.

15 % is not a wild guess though. It is about the number we see in other republics where there is a very remote chance of restoration like Brazil, Portugal , etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised with similar ( small) numbers in Italy.

[Marengo]

The only surprise in the statement is what took them so long to arrive at this decision. At the time of the duke of Castro's decision to change the succession in favor of his daughters it was already noted that for the Savoy's it would probably more be a question of *when* and not *if*.

I believe the duke of Anhalt did the same, as did in a way the late Margrave of Meissen. I think we will see more such changes in the future.

As the duke of Aosta does not recognize his cousin as the head of the family it is not surprising he will probably not support this decision either.

The title Princess of Carignano is a fitting tribute to the history of this branch of the Savoy family.

[crm2317]

It makes no difference ultimately, the monarchy is still defunct.
I wonder will the two girls begin to appear more in public with their father?

[eya]

According to the press release, the Princesses' first official engagement will be on 14 March at Hautecombe during the commemoration of King Umberto and Queen Maria José.

[Tatiana Maria]

Has anyone found a link to the press release?

Originally Posted by Marengo

The only surprise in the statement is what took them so long to arrive at this decision. At the time of the duke of Castro's decision to change the succession in favor of his daughters it was already noted that for the Savoy's it would probably more be a question of *when* and not *if*.

[...]

As the duke of Aosta does not recognize his cousin as the head of the family it is not surprising he will probably not support this decision either.

The title Princess of Carignano is a fitting tribute to the history of this branch of the Savoy family.

I agree with all of the above, and the title Marchioness of Ivrea is also a lovely nod to the roots of the Savoy family.

Originally Posted by Marengo

I believe the duke of Anhalt did the same, as did in a way the late Margrave of Meissen. I think we will see more such changes in the future.

The former king of the Bulgarians changed the succession as well, to (eta: if my memory serves me correctly, as I cannot locate the original interview where it was discussed) absolute primogeniture. But I believe he is the only head of a former European reigning family who has made the change while having a son.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by BigLenny

The Duke of Aosta and his supporters can suck it up for all I care.

[.....].

Why are you dragging Prince Amedeo and his son Prince Aimone in this? They have not uttered one word at all so far. Nothing "to suck it up" for all you care.

[Tatiana Maria]

I believe he was responding to this part of the previous post:

The Duke of Aosta and his supporters will condemn this action very swiftly, one imagines.

[Benjamin]

The Unione Monarchica Italiana (Italian Monarchist Union) criticised the unilateral move of Vittorio Emanuele of Savoy to "abolish the Salic law":

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot....-condemns.html

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I believe the duke of Anhalt did the same,

.

The difference is that Prince Eduard of Anhalt has no sons and there is no junior line with sons like in the House of Savoy.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

The Unione Monarchica Italiana (Italian Monarchist Union) criticised the unilateral move of Vittorio Emanuele of Savoy to "abolish the Salic law":

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot....-condemns.html

Oh did they now. UMI..Oldfashioned lot stuck in the wrong century.If one reason, it is them and their lack of reality that redicules the House of Savoy and blocks a broader view of the Italians on the Monarchal system a Constitutional Monarchy that is.They haven't got a clue.

The Aosta's have no say,they are a cadet branch and nada mas,so no one gives a hoot as to what they think/say in a defunct Monarchy even though some might think the world of 'm for reasons beyond me,just the umptiest people of the same sort in the same situation...Not extinct but defunct..Couleur locale,that's all,and for the rest...niente.Just making una bella figura as that is all they've left to do..

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is of no importance for the Savoia-Aosta anyway since -for them- Vittorio Emmanuele di Savoia and his descendants are no successors.

The three of Vittorio Emmanuele very own sisters are all brouillés with him and two of them openly support the Savoia-Aosta claim.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is of no importance for the Savoia-Aosta anyway since -for them- Vittorio Emmanuele di Savoia and his descendants are no successors.

The three of Vittorio Emmanuele very own sisters are all brouillés with him and two of them openly support the Savoia-Aosta claim.

He's not my favorite either,but he is the legitimate claimant to the defunct Italian Throne being the eldest son of the late King Umberto and Queen Maria José.
The Savoia Aosta 's have always thought they are far above anyone else on the planet but that's just what they think

It was a totally disfunctional family at the time and still to this day,so no surprises in the siblings department there.

[theroyalfly]

The new titles given to the girls are very fitting. Has the Savoy-Aosta branch said something yet?

The "heir" Vittoria, Princess of Carignano is a beautiful child. Excited to see her on her first engagement. She's just a year older than the Princess of Asturias and Prince Christian.

[maria-olivia]

King Umberto is buried with... I don't know the word in english. Mafan please help !

[MAfan]

The late King Umberto II wanted the royal seal of the Heads of the House of Savoy to be buried with him in his coffin, after his death.
Some say that, in this way, he intended to make clear that he was the last King of Italy, the last sovereign of the House of Savoy; other say that he wanted to prevent his descendants and civil heirs (namely his son) from coming into possession of the seal and (mis)using it.

[An Ard Ri]

Were his wishes regarding the seal fulfilled ?

[MAfan]

Yes, they were. IIRC the seal was placed in one of the King's armpit.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Umberto (son of Aimone di Savoia-Aosta and of Olga of Greece) is 5 years younger than Vittoria (daughter of Emanuele Filiberto di Savoia and of Clotilde Courau).

One never knows.

King Umberto II was extremely disappointed with his Vittorio Emanuele and refused his consent to his marriage. At the same time he did not specifically acknowledge his Savoia-Aosta cousins as rightful heirs. So the Italian monarchy has ended with him, we can say.

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Savoia-Aosta family has not given any reaction. Only the biggest monarchy faction issued a communiqué, pointing that changing rules is not for a private person to decide but needs a proper and legal procedure:

"It seems evident to anyone who has a limited knowledge of the law, and of the constitutional law in particular, that the succession to the throne of a State, governed by a constitutional monarchy should necessarily be sought in the fundamental Charter of the State, that is: in its Constitution.

In fact, the Statuto Albertino ( = the Constitution of the Kingdom of Italy) says in Article 2 that only a new constitutional charter of the Kingdom, to be approved in the forms proper to the State could modify the succession to the throne.

In essence, the rule is not in the availability of the Savoia family but of the representative organs of the State, that is, of Parliament in its constituent function."

-----------------

Note that in Romania the late King Michael only" proposed" a change of the succession and of the Royal House, to be confirmed by Parliament. He named his eldest daughter as "Custodian of the Crown", showing that this is a matter which involves other organs (of State).

[Tatiana Maria]

"It seems evident to anyone who has a limited knowledge of the law, and of the constitutional law in particular, that the succession to the throne of a State, governed by a constitutional monarchy should necessarily be sought in the fundamental Charter of the State, that is: in its Constitution.

In fact, the Statuto Albertino ( = the Constitution of the Kingdom of Italy) says in Article 2 that only a new constitutional charter of the Kingdom, to be approved in the forms proper to the State could modify the succession to the throne.

In essence, the rule is not in the availability of the Savoia family but of the representative organs of the State, that is, of Parliament in its constituent function."

The argument in the UMI's reaction is not too viable: It "seems evident to anyone who has a limited knowledge of the law, and of the constitutional law in particular", that "the forms proper to the State" have not only "modif[ied] the succession to the throne", but abolished the throne altogether.