Royal, Princely and Comital Titles

[Next Star]

I known there were some royal Italian families walking around but the I did not know there are more noble families wow I just learned something brand new thanks MAfan.

[MAfan]

You're welcome!
In this site you can see a list of some of the most prominent noble families in Italy; as you can see, even in this list they are a lot!
It is also possible to register in the website, and see the genealogies of most of these listed families.

[amedea]

Originally Posted by MAfan

It is also possible to register in the website, and see the genealogies of most of these listed families.

Is it? For me it has always been impossible. I have read that the site didn't respect some copyright rules and so the genealogies are now not avalable.

[MAfan]

As far as I know, it is possible; some times ago, more or less 2 years ago, it was free, you could see the genealogies without the registration, but now...

[Next Star]

I know members of the royal house of Bourbon-Parma hold duke and count subtitles and also Two Siclies,and Savoy but other Italian royal or noble families I did not mention hold those type of subtitles too?

[prmn]

I have a question about Rinaldo d'Este, Duke of Modena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinaldo_d'Este
Why was he styled His Royal Highness? He was only a duke, his father wasn't a king. The previous duke of Modena, Francesco II was HH not HRH.
So why was Rinaldo HRH? Because he married Princess Charlotte of Brunswick-Lüneburg? But she was HSH before marriage.

8 March 1671 – 11 February 1696 Her Serene Highness Duchess Charlotte Felicity of Brunswick-Lüneburg
1 February 1696 – 29 September 1710 Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Modena and Reggio

So why was Rinaldo given HRH style?

[MAfan]

It happened in the same period when also the Duke of Savoy and the Grand Duke of Tuscany were recognized by the Holy Roman Emperor as Royal Highnesses.
The title was given to Duke Vittorio Amedeo II of Savoy in 1689 when he broke his alliance with France; then Grand Duke Cosimo III of Tuscany started complaining with all the European monarchs because the Duke of Savoy was recognized as Royal Highness, while he, a Grand Duke, wasn't, and repeatedly demanded to be recognized as Royal Highness too; finally in 1691 the Emperor granted him the style.

Back to the question, I don't know the answer for sure, but I can't help thinking that, when the Duke of Savoy and the Grand Duke of Tuscany were granted the Royal Highness style, also the Duke of Modena may have protested and demanded for the same style, and he may have obtained it (if the Emperor granted it to the other two, why not to him too?).

[amedea]

Originally Posted by MAfan

It happened in the same period when also the Duke of Savoy and the Grand Duke of Tuscany were recognized by the Holy Roman Emperor as Royal Highnesses.
The title was given to Duke Vittorio Amedeo II of Savoy in 1689 when he broke his alliance with France;

So the title of King of Cyprus and Jerusalem used sometimes by the Savoys was not recognized by others? Or maybe just by someone? Or were they Kings without being Majesties and Royal Highnesses?

[MAfan]

I don't think anyone really cared of these titles; too many people claimed (and still may claim) the title of King of Jerusalem; if all the claimant to that title were recognized as Royal Highnesses, also the Princes of La Tremoille in the past and now the Princes of Ligne-La Tremoille should be Royal Highnesses, but nobody acknowledged this style for them.
As for the King of Cyprus title, I really don't know how it was regarded by the other European Sovereigns.

[David V]

Here's some page about the Sicilian peerage: Best of Sicily - Noble Peers of Sicily
The Sicilian Peerage
The Peerage of Sicily

[beck223]

I am new on here, but just replying on your messages about counts and count palatine in Italy. My family is from Italy. We do have a crest in our family which states that our family was of noble blood and already had the title of Count
(Conte) in Cingoli in the late 1700/early 1800's, but also the title of Count Palatine given by Pope Pius IX, in 1854,
I believe. Both titles were handed down to the first male child of the line, and so forth. So it is, or was, used in Italy until a certain time.

some info I've read:

8.4. Count-Palatine.
"Palatine" refers to extraordinary powers granted to a noble. The English word "palatine" means a region under the authority of a noble where the king's writ was suspended. While the noble owed allegience to the king (or Holy Roman Emperor), the holder of a palatine had absolute authority, including the right to grant titles of nobility, create knights, raise armies, coin money -- i.e., powers normally reserved to a sovereign. There were palatinates in British history, in both England and in Ireland, and could be given to either lords temporal or spiritual. There was a case of a "bishop-palatine"; Louis Epstein reports "the English Lords Bishop of Durham used to rule a 'county palatine'".
"The Palatinate", however, refers to the Rhineland Palatinate in Germany, or in German, "Rheinland-Pfalz" (as with the state in the modern Federal Republic of Germany). There was also the "Upper Palatinate", or "Oberpfalz".
The Counts-Palatine of the Rhineland Palatinate (in German, "Pfalzgraf, Pfalzgräfin"), were one of the premier noble houses of the Holy Roman Empire, and were electors, i.e., the Elector-Palatine.

[CyrilVladisla]

Would Vittorio Emanuel (Victor Emmanuel), Prince of Naples be referred to as King Victor Emmanuel IV if Italy was a monarchy?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by amedea

Yes, Bourbon-Parma are Royal Highnesses. And the Austria-Este and the Habsburg-Lothringen-Tuscany are Imperial and Royal Highnesses. However they all have this styles because of their appartenance to non-Italian Royal or Imperial families: Spanish RF for the Parma, Habsburg for the others.

The current Bourbons of Parma are not Spanish HRHs or members of the Spanish royal family. In Spain, there are strict limits on the form of address Royal Highness and membership of the official Royal Family:

https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1981-28756
https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-1987-25284

Originally Posted by MAfan

Yes, the Bourbon-Parma are Princes and Royal Highness; but what I meant is that in the Kingdom of Italy (House Savoy) and in the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies the children and the grandchildren of the Sovereign (or of the Head) carry a specific title, that is Royal Prince of Italy and Royal Prince of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, whule the other members of the two families are Princes of Savoy and Princes of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

And of the grandchildren, only the grandchildren by the oldest son and heir were entitled to the Royal Prince or Royal Princess title, according to the January 30, 1821 constitution of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and the royal decree of January 1, 1890 in the Kingdom of Italy.

In the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, the royals utilized the surname of Bourbon and the title Royal Prince, Royal Princess, Prince or Princess of the Two Sicilies. After the end of the monarchy the surname "of Bourbon" became combined with the title "of the Two Sicilies".

[Tatiana Maria]

The provisions concerning titles and predicates in the current constitution of Italy, which has been in force since January 1, 1948:

https://www.quirinale.it/allegati_st...ne_inglese.pdf

TRANSITORY AND FINAL PROVISIONS

[...]

XIV

Titles of nobility shall not be recognised.

The predicates of those existing before 28 October 1922 shall serve as part of the name.

The Order of Saint Mauritius shall be preserved as a hospital corporation and shall function in the ways established by law.

The law shall regulate the suppression of the Heraldic Council.