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11-11-2008, 04:52 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Italy, Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca
Thanks for making things clear: there's plenty of people that claims to have a noble title, only because they bear a particular surname. Actually Medici is a very common family name all over Emilia Romagna and Tuscany.
I know quite a few of them...
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Yes, when I studied in Modena, there where a family Medici-Caula with the title of noble, but nothing to do with Tuscany...
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11-11-2008, 03:30 PM
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Commoner
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Denver, United States
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Princess Esther Kapiʻolani Kawānanakoa, Marignoli dei Marchese di Montecorona
Does anyone have pictures of Princess Esther or her children? Apparently she married an Italian Marchese; making her children of both royal Hawaiian and noble European ancestry.
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11-12-2008, 09:09 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Location: Somewhere in the middle of the River Po Valley, Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count
Yes, when I studied in Modena, there where a family Medici-Caula with the title of noble, but nothing to do with Tuscany...
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I was talking about ordinary people, with no noble title who bear the Medici surname. 
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11-26-2008, 02:34 AM
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Countess Hortensia Visconti and Pss Flaminia Orsini at an exhibition in Rome (Photo by U. Pizzi da Zagarolo/dagospia)
ETA: I just learned from the Almanach of Gotha that Luciano Pavarotti was the Count of Modena. Does anyone know when he or one of his ancestors was given that title?
I find it hard to think of his father being a count and a baker at the same time. Any clue?
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11-26-2008, 04:48 PM
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Aristocracy
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What's exactly this "Almanach of Gotha"? one of the many a website about fake nobility? it can not be the real booklet...
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11-27-2008, 04:35 AM
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Administrator in Memoriam
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The Almanach de Gotha? Every card-carrying royalist should have one in their library, and every mother seeking a suitable match for her children should carry one in her handbag!
Wiki: Almanach de Gotha
v Pic not subject to copyright under free-use provision
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Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
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11-27-2008, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count
What's exactly this "Almanach of Gotha"? one of the many a website about fake nobility? it can not be the real booklet...
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Actually it's a website called "Almanach de Gotha", but I can't tell if it's an official website...
That's why I asked. I can't imagine a count of Modena running a bakery, which means getting up very early in the morning... 
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11-27-2008, 12:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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I've visited this site...Who is His Imperial and Royal Highness Prince Karl Friedrich of Germany, Duke of Swabia, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg, Prince of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen-Rudolstadt (Prince of The Holy Roman Empire)??? I've never heard anithing about him!!!
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11-28-2008, 10:00 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Italy, Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca
Actually it's a website called "Almanach de Gotha", but I can't tell if it's an official website...
That's why I asked. I can't imagine a count of Modena running a bakery, which means getting up very early in the morning... |
If we had a King in Italy, Pavarotti would have received a title, for sure.
Title were used also as "prize" for a person, who made great his country through the art.
But as we do not have a Monarchy nobody has given him titles of nobility!
In the Uk the Queen granted the title of Life Peer to famous Architects and other people...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan
I've visited this site...Who is His Imperial and Royal Highness Prince Karl Friedrich of Germany, Duke of Swabia, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg, Prince of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen-Rudolstadt (Prince of The Holy Roman Empire)??? I've never heard anithing about him!!!
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I am not home, so I can not check any book about German nobility, but the information concerning Pavarotti is enough to say that informations given by this website are not correct.
Traditionally the Almanach the Gotha listed the Royal families, the mediatised German families and some families of the highest European nobility...
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11-28-2008, 11:13 AM
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__________________
Let's go back to the old, and we'll have a progress! (Giuseppe Verdi)
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11-30-2008, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count
If we had a King in Italy, Pavarotti would have received a title, for sure.
Title were used also as "prize" for a person, who made great his country through the art.
But as we do not have a Monarchy nobody has given him titles of nobility!
In the Uk the Queen granted the title of Life Peer to famous Architects and other people...
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That's one of the advantages of having a monarchy. Artists and worthy people are more recognized than in republics 
I've heard about a Title in Italy named "Patrizio". What does it means? Is it trnsmitted to heirs female too?
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11-30-2008, 01:08 PM
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You can find some infos here.
I cannot tell if it can be passed on to femalre heirs, though. Perhaps a patrician woman is also styled as "Donna" the equivalent to "Lady" in English.
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11-30-2008, 01:17 PM
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In ancient Repubbliche Marinare (Venezia, Pisa, Genova and Amalfi) this title was used; in Pisa and Venezia it was used also from women, in Genova and Amalfi not.
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11-30-2008, 07:15 PM
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Thanks a lot Tosca and MAfan! You replied to everything I wanted to know about the Title
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12-01-2008, 10:32 AM
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Aristocracy
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The title of Patrician existed in cities, which were important in their areas from an historical point of view, or the former capital cities of Italian duchies.
The style of a female member of a Patrician family can be:
1. Nobile Alessandra Rossi of the Patricians of XYZ, if the title in that city was given to males only;
2. Alessandra Rossi, Patrician of XYV, if the title in that city was given to both males and females.
3. N.D. (Nobil Donna) Alessandra Rossi, if the family is from Venice.
The style of "Don" and "Donna" is given to all members of princerly and ducal families, to the Roman families with the privilege of the "Baldacchino" (families who could receive the Pope in their Palaces), to some families of the former Kingdom of Two Sicilies, to the families of Sardinia, and some families of Lombardia as heritage of the ancient Spanish occupation.
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12-01-2008, 10:39 AM
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Very interesting! What would determine if a family could receive the Pope in their palace? Was it related to loyalty to the church, social status, or something else? I would assume that simply being noble would not entitle one to receive a visit from the Pope.
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12-01-2008, 11:02 AM
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Aristocracy
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Yes, generally speaking these families were the Pricerly and ducal families, who gave a Pope to the Church but also some families, who had important offices in the Pope's Court.
The honour of "Marchese di Baldacchino" (=Marquis of the Baldachin) concerns nowadays the families of the Marquis Patrizi-Naro-Montoro, Theodoli and Counts Soderini.
These families had (and still have) in their houses a big armchair (like a throne), under a baldachin and the portrait of the reigning Pope. This chair was turned to the wall because only the Pope can sit there...
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12-01-2008, 11:07 AM
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Was Altieri family one of these? I visited Palazzo Altieri in Rome last January, and I remember a room with this Baldachin...Now the palace belongs to a bank, and the room is used as a conference room, but it preserves the baldachin...
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12-01-2008, 11:11 AM
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Aristocracy
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Yes, this family enjoyed the right of the baldachin, as Princerly Roman family, Princes of Oriolo and Viano, by the way...
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