Italian Noble and Princely Families 2: July 2007-

[berry]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

What about Lapo Elkann... is he still dating Countess Bianca Brandolini d'Adda?

is it true that they are cousins??

[Tosca]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

What about Lapo Elkann... is he still dating Countess Bianca Brandolini d'Adda?

According to the press they're still together, and yes, they're related.
If I remeber it correctly, Bianca's father is the cousin of Lapo's maternal grandfather.

[giov]

If I am not wrong, Tosca,
Bianca's father, whose mother is Cristiana Agnelli, is the first cousin of Lapo's mother, Margherita Agnelli.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnelli_%28famiglia%29

[susan alicia]

Who will inherit the Doria Pamphilj family's legacy? - Telegraph

Originally Posted by MAfan

This topic has already been faced in the italian royalty and nobility thread;
btw, both in Wikipedia and in the first article is written that Gesine and Jonathan are Princes: that's false, adopted children can't inherit titles in Italy (well, at least when titles were recognised...); they only are the heirs of the money and the goods of Donna Orietta.

[amedea]

a very posh picture BACIAMANO DEI PRINCIPI MASSIMO A MONTEZEMOLO : princess Elisa Massimo, neé Osorio de Moscoso of the dukes of Montemar kiss the ring of H.E. cardinal Andrea Cordero Lanza of the marquess of Montezemolo. The other two person are prince Carlo Massimo, Elisa's husband (here's his kiss BACIAMANO DEI PRINCIPI MASSIMO A MONTEZEMOLO ), and princess Maria Luisa Gaetani dell'Aquila d'Aragona, neé of the counts Magistrati.
The occasion was the celebration of the end of some restoration in the St Paul Basilica in Rome. For the occasion the family of counts Magistrati lent a piece of sacred art, a gift from emperor Leopold I. Here's a picture of Alessandra and Maria Luisa Magistrati ALESSANDRA E MARIA LUISA MAGISTRATI MARIA PIA FANFANI FRANZ VON LOBSTEIN .
Is Alessandra a sister of Maria Luisa? Are they related to the Italian embassador in Kenya, Andrea Magistrati?

[MAfan]

They are the daughters of Count Massimo Magistrati and his second wife, of whom I don't know the name; Count Massimo Magistrati (1899-1971) was an italian ambassador; he married firstly to Maria Ciano of the Counts of Cortellazzo, sister of the Italian Foreign Minister Galeazzo Ciano; Maria died in 1939 (a tragic loss for her brother, as you can read in his diary), and Massimo married again; from his second wife he had three children, Pierandrea (b. 1946), Maria Luisa (b. 1948) and Alessandra (b. 1962).

Prince Carlo Massimo is the son of Prince Leone and Princess Maria Adelaide, née Princess of Savoy, isn't he?

[amedea]

Well, between the many branches of the Cordero family, some bear the surname Cordero di Montezemolo (between them the branch of Fiat chairman), one bears the surname Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo (the one of cardinal Andrea, exactly).

[MAfan]

Borromeo Family is not a royal family, "only" a noble family; they were created Princes of Angera in 1916 by the King of Italy.

[Count]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

Is it Bourbon Two-Sicilies that is currently in conflict over who is the current acting head of that House ?

At the moment we have two claimant to the Head of the House of Two Sicilies: HRH Prince Don Carlo Maria, Duke of Calabria, born in St. Raphael 24.02.1963, m. in Monaco 31.10.98 Miss Camilla Crociani

and

HRH Prince Don Carlos Maria, Infante of Spain, born Lausanne 16.01.38, m. in Louvenciennes 12.05.65 HRH Princess Anne of Orléans.

Both Princes have their "party" and you can choose if be allied of the first of the second...
The Italian Nobility recognises the first one as Head of the House, they will never reign, so no problem!

[Count]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

A late congratulations to the Barbaro family's courtesy Baron Vito Robert dell' Albergo, who has become the acting head for the Venetian House of Barbaro.

Back in 2003-2004 he was required to take on the family's substantive princely title, following the naming tradition set forth by his great-grandfather, Princely Count Giambattista Valerianus Barbaro, the 2nd Princely Count of the Grand Principality of Transylvania- who used the Roman Latin derivative of his first name along with a predecessor's name when he became the acting head and Princely Count for the House of Barbaro.

The current Princely Count was styled: His Illustrious Highness Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro, Patrician of Venice; the 5th Princely Count of the Grand Principality of Transylvania and substantive Baron dell' Albergo.

Vitus' line originally lived at the joining Venetian palaces of Palazzo Barbaro and Palazzo Dario at San Vito on the Grand Canal in Venice. His father's name is Sebastian. Hence, the choice of middle name for the acting Princely Count.

Some Barbaro family links with history: StateMaster - Encyclopedia: Barbaro family
Barbaro family information

Celebrity astrology has Vitus Sebastian Barbaro listed as an art historian, aerospace engineer and automobile designer- born on July 27, 1973. So, is a Leo: Rahu Astrology.com :: Masters of Vedic Astrology Online

He was one of the designers who presented a concept for the Ferrari Enzo Supercar at the company's headquarters in Maranello, Italy:Vision Industries SZR - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

He would also be about the same age as FIAT's John Elkann.

Just a little info on a rather reclusive royal...

Designers also seem to run in his family. His mother is Baroness Grace Talarico di Capace, whose family was fashion designers for Emilio Pucci's haute couture in Rome: Grace Talarico di Capace

The Baroness is also known for her unique eye which is multi-colored, called heterochromia, which is a genetic trait found in many royals. Lady Gabriella Windsor has a mild version of it, and it can be seen on Ella Windsor's online page at ELLA WINDSOR

Nice to see that we have a new impostor in the world: "Princerly Count" Vitus Barbaro!
Barbaro family has not the title of Princerly Count, tipical of the German families "fuerstlicher Graf".
I already wrote about Venitian families, their only title were "Venitian Patrician", than they had the possibility to ask for the title of Count to the emperor of Austria, many of them did it (and the Barbaro too), but no princerly Count or Illustrious Highness!
In the US is very easy, you can change your name and tomorrow you will be "Romanov Holstein Gottorp von Hannover Savoy Karageorgevich Oldenburg"...
Also a families of "barons dell'Albergo" and "Talarico di Capace" do not exist. On the contrary the late Emilio Pucci was a real Marquis of Barsento.

[MAfan]

If you're gonna do something... - avoision
This newspaper insertion can be enlightening...

[MAfan]

In Southern Italy, Vitus' line of the Barbaro family served as the "Barone dell' Albergo", do you even know what that is- it is a specific title for the Kingdom of Naples, the 'baron of industry", It also had a counterpart, the "Proto Barone dell' Albergo", awarded to the Proto or Provost of the Kingdom of Sicily, "the magistrative baron of the kingdom",of which the first person to hold that title was of the noble Maria family, Ugo Francesco Maria, Proto Baron dell'Albergo of 1770.

I'm sorry to inform you that the person you quote as "Ugo Francesco Maria, Proto Baron dell'Albergo" "of the noble Maria family" in reality was Ugo Francesco Maria Proto, Barone dell'Arbore, where "Ugo Francesco Maria" was his first name, "Proto" was his family name and "Barone dell'Arbore" was his title.
Nobiliario di Sicilia

[amedea]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

Ahhhh, brash youth! Rather than making uninformed remarks about something and someone you don't know about or understand. It would be nice if you know the facts and history first.

Along with the Barbaro family being Patricians of Venice, there is a line that is also Nobile Uomo di San Martino Buon Albergo (Verona), under Alessandro Barbaro (b.1764-1839) who was on Venice's Council of Ten and on the Supreme Tribunal at San Martino Buon Albergo.

This is a territory organized into a noble "Albergo". If you would actually know somthing about Alberghi, you would understand what that means, as was Monaco's House of Grimaldi- as even talked about on their official website, also organized into an Albergo.

This Barbaro line headed a silk Albergo that spanned from Northern Italy to Catanzaro in Southern Italy, and in Southern Italy, which was a different Kingdon, the Kingdom of Naples, their title of Nobile had to be interpreted in a way that would insure the same political rights as Nobile awarded them in Northern Italy.

Vitus' line of the Barbaro family is known as the "Albergo" line of the Barbaro family, vs. another branch known as San Giorgio, who are using the surname St. George and Zimmermann because they are the Marquis of San Giorgio and have adopted a German title as well as the Counts von Zimmermann.

In Southern Italy, Vitus' line of the Barbaro family served as the "Barone dell' Albergo", do you even know what that is- it is a specific title for the Kingdom of Naples, the 'baron of industry", It also had a counterpart, the "Proto Barone dell' Albergo", awarded to the Proto or Provost of the Kingdom of Sicily, "the magistrative baron of the kingdom",of which the first person to hold that title was of the noble Maria family, Ugo Francesco Maria, Proto Baron dell'Albergo of 1770.

Vitus' line are princely counts not noble counts, fully evated to such a position in unerwritting and with royal decree to that dignity after their family being part of the diplomatic envoy that resulted in the formulation of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

Vitus was the Barbaro' family's courtsey Baron dell'Albergo till 30 years of age, in 2003, when he took on the substantive title for the house, and it became formalized into his name in 2004.

The Baron's di Capace, is one of only two Visogothic familys attached to the Balti Dynasty, which as Visogoths lineages, heraldic offices didn't even know where to register them for the longest time. The other line of Varons, the Varons de Baux, served as lords in France, Barons of Baux, and then the title was taken over by the Grimaldi family as the Marquis de Baux, of which the current holder is Prince Albert II of Monaco. Finally, the Holy Roman Empire added Varon under the Baron listing which is even noted on their website.

Vitus is a noted art historian, automobile designer, and also an America televsion producer, I'm from LA and I know. In the US, there is so much ignorance and jealousy about nobility that people love to try to smear people and call everything a hoax, I now see it exists in Italy too, just sad!

1-San Martino Buon Albergo is the name of a town, nothing to do with the juridical construct of the "Albergo".
2-When you become part of an "Albergo" you did NOT take the surname "Albergo", but the surname of the family organized in "Albergo". For example, all the members of the "Albergo" of the Grimaldis, took the surname Grimaldi. Maybe someone mantained his own surname and just added the one of the "Albergo", but I repeat NO ONE took the surname "Albergo"
3-MAfan has already pointed out all the errors you made alltoghether trying to include that Proto, barone dell'Albore.
4-many posters have already said that that title of princely count is not used for that family.
5-What's all that confusion between barons and Varons??
6-Could you please post the titles of the books written on art history by that Vitus? And where the official website of Ferrari talks about him?
7-It is wonderful that American legislation on names and surnames fits so well the "needs" of "such ancient" European families: THAT'S HILARIOUS.

For all this reasons I ask here, publicly, that Ruspoli Princess is banned from the forum and all the rubbish she has posted is deleted. It is cleat that she is in bad faith. Her permanence and the possibilty for her to continue to write all this is a seroius threat to the credibility of the forum.

[amedea]

Originally Posted by Ruspoli Princess

Oh really,

I will show you Varon listed in the HRE.

I am also trying to get a link to dell'albergo to post properly and everything else.

You do not know what you are talking about, period.

Let me post, before you attack with some uninformed judgement.

We have all already showed you that we aren't "brash youth" but people who knows what they say. I will continue until you won't be banned.
In few seconds I have found this: a link with the Grimaldi's title you were refferring to, the one of "barons of Baux", and all its holders: no Varons is included Lords of Baux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Even if a Varon was included (but it isn't), what would be the link with that (inexistant!!) house of Talarico di Capace?? Maybe that their title "baron" is similar to that surname "Varon". Oh my God, they must be really close relatives!!

[Warren]

Normal business will now resume.

[Tosca]

Marquise Bona Frescobaldi and daughter Diana (dagospia/Mario Pizzi da Zagarolo)

Wondering if "da Zagarolo" is a style, or does it refers only to the city where Mario Pizzi comes from. We know that dago loves joking!

[Count]

Originally Posted by Tosca

Marquise Bona Frescobaldi and daughter Diana (dagospia/Mario Pizzi da Zagarolo)

Wondering if "da Zagarolo" is a style, or does it refers only to the city where Mario Pizzi comes from. We know that dago loves joking!

Hi Tosca, it is not a style, he comes from Zagarolo...

[Priest008]

I found the correct name he was "Gianfranco Alliata di Montereale" and only died recently around 12 years ago. I am sure he was a prince because my grandma used to meet him often and she would also invite him for dinner with my grandad, however all contact with his family was lost after his death and my grandfathers death, but did Gianfranco have any heirs? who became the next princes, if so what do we know about them?? thanks for the help.

[Odette]

In a recent edition of the US Vanity Fair they had a great article about the Carraciolo/Agnelli/Visconti/Elkann connections, family feuds and scandals.
I assume they all belong to the nobility of Northern Italy but if any of our Italian friends have any news on the Jacaranda Carraciolo latest feud, I'd love to know what happenned.

[Count]

Originally Posted by Priest008

I found the correct name he was "Gianfranco Alliata di Montereale" and only died recently around 12 years ago. I am sure he was a prince because my grandma used to meet him often and she would also invite him for dinner with my grandad, however all contact with his family was lost after his death and my grandfathers death, but did Gianfranco have any heirs? who became the next princes, if so what do we know about them?? thanks for the help.

Giovanni Francesco (Gianfranco) Alliata was member of the Italian Parliament for 15 years, involved in the golpe of Junio Borghese, he was also Grand Master of the freemasons's lodge of Piazza del Gesù and member of the Gelli's Lodge P2.
He married 3 times, the last one in Malta and was a great personality.
He had 1 daughter ad adopted 1 son, who obviously can not succed him as head of the branch of Montereale. The actual Head is Prince Don Fabrizio, who has a son: Giovanni living in Venice, member of the Cini Foundation and very active in cinema and venitian cultural life.
I knew personally Gianfranco, so if you need more information, you can ask further questions.